Mormons accept founder Joseph Smith had up to 40 wives


tay
#1
Mormon leaders have acknowledged for the first time that the church’s founder and prophet, Joseph Smith , portrayed in church materials as a loyal partner to his loving spouse Emma, took as many as 40 wives, some already married and one only 14 years old.


The church’s disclosures, in essays online, are part of an effort to be transparent about its history as church members are encountering disturbing claims about the faith on the internet. Many Mormons, especially those with polygamous ancestors, say they were well aware Smith’s successor, Brigham Young , practised polygamy when he led the flock in Salt Lake City. But they did not know the full truth.


“Joseph Smith was presented to me as a practically perfect prophet, and this is true for a lot of people,” said Emily Jensen, a blogger and editor in Farmington, Utah, who often writes about Mormon issues. She said the reaction of some Mormons resembled the grief stages of denial and anger: “This is not the church I grew up with, this is not the Joseph Smith I love.”


Smith probably did not have sexual relations with all of his wives, because some were “sealed” to him only for the next life, according to the essays posted by the church. But for his first wife, Emma, polygamy was “an excruciating ordeal”. The four treatises on polygamy reflect a new resolve by a church long accused of secrecy to respond with openness to the kind of thorny historical and theological issues causing some to become disillusioned or even to abandon the faith.




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Mormons accept founder Joseph Smith had up to 40 wives
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#2
Most of them underage. But for some reason, it doesn't get the Muhammad-haters all cranked up.
 
Sal
#3
well at least they are going public with it

everyone else in the free world who has read anything on Mormonism already knew it

Quote:

The essay on “plural marriage” in the early days of the Mormon movement in Ohio and Illinois says polygamy was commanded by God, revealed to Smith and accepted by him and his followers only very reluctantly. Abraham and other Old Testament patriarchs had multiple wives, and Smith preached his church was the “restoration” of the early, true Christian church.

Mormonism is a strange religion from my perspective. There is much secrecy surrounding their inner circles and a lot of elitism, special undergarments must be worn...Mormons married in the temple in Utah are accorded special privileges both here on earth and in heaven, they also refer to themselves as Temple Mormons. Even if you are an elder here in Canada if you are not married in the temple you are less than.

Your body must be kept pure, even coffee is considered a drug that defiles the body.

As for plural marriage, have at 'er...who cares what two or 40 adults choose to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Most of them underage. But for some reason, it doesn't get the Muhammad-haters all cranked up.

yes it does, over the years in forums I have argued pro plural marriage as being no one's business and made plenty of people spin out.

It's the compounds that are so so vicious to their young...they take underaged girls and kick the boys out.

Compounds are quite different from your Donny and Marie, squeaky clean Mormon Tabernacle Choir presentation
 
Tecumsehsbones
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

yes it does, over the years in forums

No, actually it doesn't. Unless you've heard folks calling for bombing Salt Lake City, and meaning it.
 
Sal
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

No, actually it doesn't. Unless you've heard folks calling for bombing Salt Lake City, and meaning it.

okay from that perspective you are right

it has only been recently that we have moved in on compounds to take the young girls away from old men whom they are forced to marry, and several times that was a fiasco because they ripped the women away from the kids including toddlers and babies

I don't know what the laws are surrounding the compounds but they are often well guarded with weaponed security

legally are the compounds considered "church"?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

okay from that perspective you are right

it has only been recently that we have moved in on compounds to take the young girls away from old men whom they are forced to marry, and several times that was a fiasco because they ripped the women away from the kids including toddlers and babies

I don't know what the laws are surrounding the compounds but they are often well guarded with weaponed security

legally are the compounds considered "church"?

Frequently, but it doesn't matter. At least in the U.S., it's been long established that you cannot commit violations of the criminal code in the name of religion. Also, the fact that a building or area is called a "church" means nothing legally. There are a number of political and cultural reasons for giving religions a break, but the law authorises the cops to go into a church and make an arrest just the same as they would in a 7-11 or a private home.

As for the armed guards, hey, this is America. You ain't a player if you don't have a thug squad.
 
Sal
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Frequently, but it doesn't matter. At least in the U.S., it's been long established that you cannot commit violations of the criminal code in the name of religion. Also, the fact that a building or area is called a "church" means nothing legally. There are a number of political and cultural reasons for giving religions a break, but the law authorises the cops to go into a church and make an arrest just the same as they would in a 7-11 or a private home.

As for the armed guards, hey, this is America. You ain't a player if you don't have a thug squad.

Until Warren Jeffs nothing has been done. Part of their belief system has fed into pedophilia and misogyny for centuries. But then that has been a societal problem and they are merely a microcosm. For many reasons pedophilia has slipped under the radar...the weakest have no voice.

Their church has to move forward with this because many of their followers have been denied access to any information other than that controlled by the elders. Now the world is encroaching.

The mennonites are facing the same dilemma. There too sexual as well as physical abuse was much easier to conceal as a culture due to isolation.
 
Harikrish
#8
Now we know the reason so msny men voted for Romney. He would have introduced his Mormonism into American life.
 
Sal
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Now we know the reason so msny men voted for Romney. He would have introduced his Mormonism into American life.

Repeatedly citing the Bible, Romney urged graduates to find God, marry young and have many children.

"The Bible is a pearl of wisdom, the distillation of lessons of life," Romney said. "And so when it says 'marry,' listen!" Later, Romney added, "Have a quiver full of kids if you can.”


yeah he kept it down low...and for good reason, it is nothing like what average Christians believe but it can be made to appear so for those who draw comfort from their faith and sameness
 
WLDB
+3
#10  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post


Mormonism is a strange religion from my perspective.

No stranger than most. We're just used to the others but when you look at the actual beliefs they are just as far fetched and weird as the Mormon beliefs.
 
Sal
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

No stranger than most. We're just used to the others but when you look at the actual beliefs they are just as far fetched and weird as the Mormon beliefs.

yes, you have a point, faith is never about logic
 
Ludlow
#12
Well the man was a horndog perv. Nothin new there.
 
Sal
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post

Well the man was a horndog perv. Nothin new there.

that he was, and he convinced many members of the flock that god said he should take their wives and since women had no say, given he was, funny that eh?
 
Twila
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post

Well the man was a horndog perv. Nothin new there.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

that he was, and he convinced many members of the flock that god said he should take their wives and since women had no say, given he was, funny that eh?

Started his own religion so he could be who he wanted to be and to hell with what anybody else wanted...sounds about right. Are there any religions that have been started that have equality for all members?
 
Sal
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

Started his own religion so he could be who he wanted to be and to hell with what anybody else wanted...sounds about right. Are there any religions that have been started that have equality for all members?

I think Christianity probably did at the beginning. The problem with equality being accepted by a given group is dependent upon the level of sophistication of the society at the time it is introduced and then the stability of the culture continuing at that level. I have read theories that at the beginning Christianity did exactly that, then Paul altered things.

don't know
 
WLDB
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

Are there any religions that have been started that have equality for all members?

Pastafarianism
 
taxslave
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Now we know the reason so msny men voted for Romney. He would have introduced his Mormonism into American life.

Most men are not masochistic enough to want more than one wife. Girlfriends yes but not wives.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

Started his own religion so he could be who he wanted to be and to hell with what anybody else wanted...sounds about right. Are there any religions that have been started that have equality for all members?

The Friends (Quakers).
 
gopher
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

Repeatedly citing the Bible, Romney urged graduates to find God, marry young and have many children.

"The Bible is a pearl of wisdom, the distillation of lessons of life," Romney said. "And so when it says 'marry,' listen!" Later, Romney added, "Have a quiver full of kids if you can.”


yeah he kept it down low...and for good reason, it is nothing like what average Christians believe but it can be made to appear so for those who draw comfort from their faith and sameness



Mitty had a full quiver but was a draft dodger and that hurt him among right wingers who are so fond of war.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The Friends (Quakers).



Ditto for Shakers
 
Twila
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The Friends (Quakers).

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post





Ditto for Shakers


Thanks for that. That's good to know. A couple of rays of sunshine and light in an otherwise gloomy habit of humans.
 
gopher
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

Thanks for that. That's good to know. A couple of rays of sunshine and light in an otherwise gloomy habit of humans.



This is fully consistent with New Testament teaching as we discussed in the past where it is written,



you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light


1 Peter 2:9


Note that the entire congregation, all followers are part of that priesthood without any preferential ranking for anyone.
 
Harikrish
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

Repeatedly citing the Bible, Romney urged graduates to find God, marry young and have many children.

"The Bible is a pearl of wisdom, the distillation of lessons of life," Romney said. "And so when it says 'marry,' listen!" Later, Romney added, "Have a quiver full of kids if you can.”


yeah he kept it down low...and for good reason, it is nothing like what average Christians believe but it can be made to appear so for those who draw comfort from their faith and sameness

Romney also said he had no solution for 47% of Americans. Yet he wanted to be the President of the US.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Mitty had a full quiver but was a draft dodger and that hurt him among right wingers who are so fond of war.





Ditto for Shakers

The Shakers were crazy. Any sect that bans all sex is on its way out. As the Shakers proved.

Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Romney also said he had no solution for 47% of Americans. Yet he wanted to be the President of the US.

That's not true. He said he didn't give a damn about 47% of Americans.

Can't blame him for that. I don't give a damn about 97% of Americans. Then again, I ain't running for office.
 
Harikrish
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The Shakers were crazy. Any sect that bans all sex is on its way out. As the Shakers proved.


That's not true. He said he didn't give a damn about 47% of Americans.

Can't blame him for that. I don't give a damn about 97% of Americans. Then again, I ain't running for office.

Obama won the election with 52% of the votes. So 48% of Americans hate him. Proves the election was rigged. There are more Americans that hate Obama(48%) than Americans that Romney hates (47%) and yet Obama won.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Obama won the election with 52% of the votes. So 48% of Americans hate him.

Only if you're stupid enough to presume that voting for someone means you hate the other candidate. And stupid enough to unjustifiably ascribe the attitudes of the 40-odd percent of Americans who vote to all Americans.

Quote:

Proves the election was rigged. There are more Americans that hate Obama than Americans that Romney hates and yet Obama won.

Given the stipulations above, that's not as moronic as it sounds.
 
Harikrish
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Only if you're stupid enough to presume that voting for someone means you hate the other candidate. And stupid enough to unjustifiably ascribe the attitudes of the 40-odd percent of Americans who vote to all Americans.


Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish
Obama won the election with 52% of the votes. So 48% of Americans hate him.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Only if you're stupid enough to presume that voting for someone means you hate the other candidate. And stupid enough to unjustifiably ascribe the attitudes of the 40-odd percent of Americans who vote to all Americans.

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish
Proves the election was rigged. There are more Americans that hate Obama than Americans that Romney hates and yet Obama won.



Given the stipulations above, that's not as moronic as it sounds.

A winning strategy for Romney in 2016 would be to appeal to the 47% of Americans he hates and appeal to the 48% of Americans who hates Obama and win a few of the voters of the 52% that voted for Obama and he will have a landslide victory.. Do the math..47% + 48% + some of the (52%) = landslide victory. Political science 101!!!
 
gopher
+2
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones;

The Shakers were crazy. Any sect that bans all sex is on its way out. As the Shakers proved.



Any worse than the sex crazed Mormons whose home state of Utah has the highest porn use rate in the USA?

Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers - science-in-society - 27 February 2009 - New Scientist





.
 
#juan
+1
#28
One of my late older sisters converted to Mormonism over thirty years ago. She revered Joseph Smith like a second coming. In those days the Mormon church didn't like to advertise the disgusting, rampant, polygamy of the elders. Or how young men were driven off so more women were available for the elders. I don't understand how this group of oversexed holy rollers was allowed to thrive.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Any worse than the sex crazed Mormons whose home state of Utah has the highest porn use rate in the USA?

Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers - science-in-society - 27 February 2009 - New Scientist





.

Not gonna join your hate. I like Mormons. They make real good neighbours.

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

One of my late older sisters converted to Mormonism over thirty years ago. She revered Joseph Smith like a second coming. In those days the Mormon church didn't like to advertise the disgusting, rampant, polygamy of the elders. Or how young men were driven off so more women were available for the elders. I don't understand how this group of oversexed holy rollers was allowed to thrive.

They were white.
 
#juan
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Not gonna join your hate. I like Mormons. They make real good neighbours.


They were white.

What has that to do with anything?
 

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