Irish Lives Matter too (1625)


Tecumsehsbones
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Look East if you want off the charts racism and human trafficking.
We are lightweights.

Well, I guess that makes racism in the West OK, then.
 
gerryh
+2
#32
I really dont know why I bother
 
gerryh
+2
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Well, I guess that makes racism in the West OK, then.

Yup, thats exactley what it means.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Bullshyte comparison. We aren't trying to solve a black slavery issue in the u.s. That was taken care of a long time ago. When talking about historic slavery, then one should really look at the entire picture, not just one small corner.
As for the slavery definition, I've already supplied what your own government, along with the international community says it is now. This would be inline with what I said about the Irish.
Now, ive already stated that when it comes to racism, which is really what this whole shit show is about, we must look at the whole. Just looking at white racism against black with not solve anything. Making comments, as some have, including on this forum, that if one is white then you can't be a subject of racism does more harm than good in the fight against racism.
Everyone can be the subject of racism no matter their skin colour, and anyone can be a racist, regardless of their skin colour.
I acknowledge that bringing up things like irish slaves is used by some to do a "look over there" and try to take away from the argument that there is systemic racism against blacks since slavery. On the other hand, trying to minimize what happened to the Irish by saying that it was only indentured servitude and not that bad because it had an end date (which if you read my link you would know that that wasnt always the case) takes away from the entire argument.
I've rambled long enough. This is far more than I usually give anyone or anything at CC.

I didn't say it "wasn't so bad." I said it was different from slavery, as a definitional matter.

Thank you for acknowledging the "Great Scot! Turtles!" nature of the whole thread.

The facts are simple. The Irish were discriminated against in all kinds of ways in the U.S., partly for being Irish, partly for being Catholic (anti-Catholic nativism was at its peak in the middle 1800s, when the mass of Irish fleeing An Gorta Mor arrived). Their assimilation was relatively quick and painless, ironically facilitated by later surges in Italian immigration.

I do not think anybody would claim that persons of Irish descent suffer systemic discrimination now (though some will imply it as a stupid and cowardly attempt at whataboutery diversion).

State Department propaganda is one thing; the law is another. If you are at all interested in what U.S. law says about slavery and associated matters, here's your resource:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/t...t-I/chapter-77
 
petros
+1
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Well, I guess that makes racism in the West OK, then.

If you say so Teacup.
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Yup, but this discussion is never about the obvious human condition. It is always pointing fingers at one group. In the case of the latest instance in history, what is discussed is the European and american slave traders and "owners". Nothing about those that raised the different african tribes and rounded up the people to sell to the european traders to ship over seas. Not a single word is said about that here. Just recently Nigeria has stepped forward and admitted their historic part in the transatlantic slave trade.

Slave shipping was the corner stone of Portugal GDP at the time
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Slave shipping was the corner stone of Portugal GDP at the time




True dat!


But of course Portugal is stony broke and thus cannot be bullied and LIE-beralled into supplying gravy for Antifa Goons!



And in these modern "progressive" times - LIE-berals have decided that it is politically expedient to create an



ENTIRE SOCIAL CLASS of workers who are the modern equivalent of Indentured Servants!


Consider how LIE-berals are aiding and supporting the growth of the "gig" economy and the expansion of not so TEMPORARY



Employment Agencies so corporations can get around stupid LIE-beral labour costs and tax hits!



Here is yet another article illustrating how muddled is the LIE-beral effort to “grow” our economy! With some comments of my own in brackets):

Politicians' 'help' attacks the gig-economy

By Jerry Agar. Published: January 13, 2020. Updated: January 13, 2020 5:18 PM EST

Filed Under: Toronto SUN/ Opinion/ Columnists

Do you lead a free and independent work life? If so the political class is coming for you.

Exhibit A is an anti-Uber law in California that has the perhaps unintended consequence of attacking workers in a number of gig-economy jobs.

Canada is infested with the same types of politicians who crafted California’s law, so it is worth exploring.

(LIE-berals everywhere are under the gun to find “New Revenue Tools” to feed their voracious appetite for MORE GRAVY! Thus any biz that interferes in any way with the gravy grabbing is anathema to LIE-berals!)

(As an example- by starting up its ride share program - Uber has rendered nearly WORTHLESS the many thousands of standard taxi cab permits that USED TO SELL for upwards of 100 grand EACH! LIE-berals had a NICE DEAL going y imposing inheritance taxes on those permits when their owners died and passed them on to the next generation! The value of a taxi permit is now near zero and thus is paying NOTHING to LIE-beral tax collectors!)

The new law – AB5 – limits whether companies can classify their workers as independent contractors. A report from the Independent Women’s Forum reads, “Supporters of the bill promised that ridesharing drivers would get more pay and benefits because companies would have to abide by state laws and mandates including minimum wages, overtime, workers’ compensation, and paid time off.”

(This is classic LIE-beral madness! If LIE-berals were truly worried about “independent contractors” they would have long ago offered to help taxi drivers! Such drivers routinely make WELL BELOW minimum wage rates and taxi company owners get away with it because taxi drivers are classed as “independent contractors” - LIE-berals pretend that the average driver HAS ANY CONTROL over working conditions or pay rates etc! It is LIE-beral FAKERY!)

(In addition - by LIMITING the number of taxi permits - LIE-berals regulated supply and demand for such drivers and cars! Uber has destroyed that biz model! In the process - LIE-berals have made life MUCH HARDER for immigrants and others at the low end of our economy who so often end up driving a cab because they have no other economic options!)

In December, anticipating the law, Vox Media laid off 200 freelance journalists and writers. Perhaps politicians will telephone each of them to explain how much better off they are now. They are replaced by 20 full-time workers.

Vox offered writers the chance to write up to 35 articles a year if they worked for free. That’s a real financial benefit, isn’t it?

Business Insider estimated 7,200 media workers lost jobs by October 2019 while Forbes says, “at least one million workers will be impacted” in California.

(LIE-berals DO NOT APPROVE of such free market journalists! Mainly because LIE-berals want to CONTROL the message being published at all times - for their own personal benefit! Free and full public discussion HARMS LIE-beral values!)

The Sacramento Bee said the law is, “a prime example of lawmaking by people who make big salaries and never bother finding out what life is like for the everyday workers who make a living in the gig economy. It offered blanket exemptions to groups with strong lobbying capabilities – doctors, lawyers, real estate agents and the like – and left most of the rest gasping for air, including nurses, musicians, stand-up comedians and interpreters.”

(Tjis is a PRIME EXAMPLE of Socialist style thinking! LIE-berals are ENTITLED because they are exalted leaders dedicated to “doing good” - which translates into feathering their nest first and letting us have whatever is left over! As I have stated before - a Communist is a person in a hurry and thus he will shoot you in the head to remove you as an obstacle to his progress!)

(By comparison - the Socialist is MORE PATIENT! The Socialist will simply kick you into a ditch and leave you to starve there! The Socialist operates under a very PHONEY set of values I which they get special priviliges and the rest of us have to make our own way as best we can! This is why LIE-berals see nothing wrong with paying WAY MORE to the civil service union HOG clerk stamping your $100 water bill as PAID - than is being paid to the clerk adding up your $100 grocery bill! The double standard is obvious!)

Once again uninformed politicians who claim to be for the little guy – but in reality are often doing the bidding of deep-pocket unions and big taxi companies – screw the little guy.

(Ah yes - LIE-beral democracy at its finest! “Deep pocket unions” religiously support LIE-berals in exchange for various perks and thus are ENTITLED to LIE-beral aid! And LIE-berals NEED those taxi companies to THRIVE - in part so unskilled immigrants and others whose votes LIE-berals want ot buy - will have income; and in part LIE-berals NEED that inheritance and sales tax revenue from the sale of those taxi permits!)

(In related economic news - LIE-berals view taxis as an ESSENTIAL SERVICE that keeps drunks and addicts and poor people with unsafe and badly maintained vehicles OFF THE ROAD - by giving them an alternative to driving themselves! And of course LIE-berals DO NOT want ot see the aged and infirm get behind the wheel either- thus taxis are important to LIE-beral social policy! And the LIE-beral HUNT for more revenue tools goes on!)

California is so serious about clamping down on freedom of choice for workers that they have budgeted $20 million to enforce the bill.

LAU: Unionize the gig economy? That’s a bad idea

Wonolo offers an on-demand marketplace for blue-collar workers. Using an app, they facilitate connections to temporary jobs such as warehouse packers, janitors, delivery drivers, forklift operators, line cooks and event staffers.

(LIE-berals are caught out yet again! They DO NOT want to see any expansion of the “working poor” that labours but cannot pay its bills without govt aid! The rise of temporary employment agencies with their crap wages, erratic hours, lack of long term security and NO holidays is DISTRESSING to LIE-berals!)

(How can LIE-berals justify paying greedy union HOGS ever more if the general population is getting more indebted by the week? The “Ontari-owe Works Program” is classic LIE-beral short sighted planning! The idea was to allow people on welfare to earn some extra income working at a part time job - without clawing back welfare benefits! The hope was that welfare recipients would use the part time work as a segue into full time work! But this has NOT happened!)

(When LIE-berals set up their little plan - they neglected to consider just how many welfare recipients had issues that would prevent them from becoming full time employees! Issues such as drug addiction and alcoholism, mental heath issues and education limitations and just plain BAD ATTITUDES!)

(Thus employers seeking to hire people for those drudge minimum wage jobs are HAPPY to have that mass of welfare types seeking a little extra income! Such part time workers are easily disposed of at short notice once the work is done! Such workers can also be called in at SHORT NOTICE - pitting workers in a race against each other in a display of who really wants the job the most!)

The San Francisco Chronicle reports, “Wonolo has primarily hired its workers as independent contractors. AB5 has prompted it to drastically shrink its California operations, essentially ending gig jobs here after the first quarter.”

(LIE-berals DO NOT want to create a THREE TIER ECONOMY! We already have a Two Tier Economy - meaning civil service union HOGS versus the private sector! Now LIE-berals would LIKE TO AVOID having our private sector SPLIT into full time workers and welfare recipients doing part time crap! LIE-berals have NOT figured out how to create good full time work - though they HAVE figured out how to efficiently DESTROY good jobs with insane taxes and wild spending!)

Who works in the gig economy? Business Insider writes, “Of the 57 million gig workers in 2019, 46% said they chose to freelance because they were “unable to work for a traditional employer due to personal circumstances,” according to an annual study from the gig-work marketplace Upwork. Alisha Grauso, a co-leader of California Freelance Writers United, said freelancers were more likely to be disabled or older.”

That is who the Democrats in California decided to attack under the guise of liberal, condescending, “help.”

In Canada the Canadian Union of Postal Workers went to court trying to enforce their view that Foodora’s couriers are employees, not independent contractors.

(But....Canada Post is made up of govt HOGS and they are entitled and might not vote for LIE-berals if they do not get their “entitlements”! And what of those Food delivery companies that employ bicycle couriers at CHEAP RATES? Surely our civil service union HOGS are ENTITLED to get meals delivered to them CHEAP after a long work day of passing useless govt memos and toting up their lists of new benefits to be DEMANDED at the next union contract “negotiations”!)

(LIE-beral entitlements DEMAND that Free Market Capitalism be employed to ensure whatever services they require will be LOW COST - even as they use their Monopoly stranglehold on essential services to extort their GRAVY from us!)

Under the previous Liberal government in Ontario a report recommended that classification of employees and contractors become a “priority enforcement issue.”

(Yes - Wynne-bag LIE-berals also mandated a BIG JUMP in minimum wage rates so they would have the inflationary justification to grant more gravy to HOGS - while at the same time TAXING BACK the minimum pay raise “given” to ordinary people at the low end of the pay scale!)

As freelance writer Karen Klein observed in the Sacramento Bee, “Note to the Legislature: Destroying the livelihoods of contractors is not the same as protecting them.”

(Sadly -this argument is now returned full circle to illustrate how little success LIE-berals are having in regulating our economy! Having a CRAP PART TIME JOB is rather better than having NO JOB - but NOBODY is happy with the existing gig economy! Not even LIE-berals! Its just too bad that LIE-berals NEED that gig economy to MUTE the rumblings of public discontent over the UNHAPPY STATE of our “booming economy”!)
 
Tygerbright
+1
#38
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-slav...cxK0HzNOyK4JR4
 
petros
+2
#39
Irish werent considered white until post WW2.

Just ask your neighbours from Prince Edward Ireland.
 
taxslave
+1
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Tygerbright View Post

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-slav...cxK0HzNOyK4JR4

Of course you believe that.
 
spilledthebeer
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Irish werent considered white until post WW2.

Just ask your neighbours from Prince Edward Ireland.




Thank you for contributing your big bag of Horsesh+t about the Irish!


Italians also whine about not being considered "white" - and that stupid view persists right to the present day!


Had that explained to me by some lunatic woman who was also convinced that Anglo Saxons


WHERE THE MOST RACIST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!


The TRUTH OF COURSE is that Anglo Saxons were simply the most clever and well organized of all slave traders!


It is NOT the fault of Anglo Saxons that other Empires and tribal groups were not as successful as Anglo Saxons!


BUT IT IS TO THE CREDIT of Anglo Saxons that it was the BRITISH who VOTED WITH THEIR CONSCIENCE in the



great referendum around 1790 in which British were THE FIRST to abolish slavery!


Not only that but Brits also put their money where their mouth was and sent warships to patrol the African coasts to intercept



and imprison slave traders!


NOBODY HAS DONE MORE to abolish slavery and establish civil rights than the BRITS!


But that does not sit well with the WHITE HATERS and Soviet Socialist LIE-beral BIGOTS!


So FAKE NEWS is the order of the day!


If the TRUTH CAME OUT - Brits would be recognized as being over all - the most PROGRESSIVE members of all HUMANITY!


And Lord knows - LIE-berals would have a mental breakdown if such a TRUTH became widely accepted!
 
petros
+1
#42
Was I wrong about when Irish were started to be considered white? Was it before or after E Europeans, Italians or Spanish?
 
spilledthebeer
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Irish werent considered white until post WW2.

Just ask your neighbours from Prince Edward Ireland.






Oh Petros - you are WAY OFF BASE with that!



Irish were and are clearly and obviously WHITE!



But were viewed UNIVERSALLY as having been driven quite MAD by religious dogma!


Irish were shunned because they were NUTS about the Mother Church - nothing to do with their skin pigment!



And Irish were SHUNNED because of their ANTI ENGLISH BIGOTRY!


An Irishman can total up every slight or slur - REAL OR IMAGINED that MIGHT have been offered by an Englishman



in the course of Irish history - but that same Irishman CANNOT THINK OF A SINGLE INSTANCE



when the Saintly, patient and long suffering Irish RESPONDED EXACTLY IN KIND!


My OLD history teacher told us that in Toronto the Good around 1900 - it was NOT UNCOMMON to see signs in shop windows


stating "help wanted - NO ENGLISH NEED APPLY"!


Surely the Sainted and PATIENT Irish would not snub the English in such fashion?


But WHAT OF DARCY McGee - born in County Sligo - in the shadow of the Mountains of Mourne or some such bog!


And his parents brought him to Canada as a little boy - to avoid that NASTY POTATO shortage I am sure you heard about!


And Darcy fitted into Cdn society so well that he got ELECTED AS AN MP!



Of course being an MP in those days did not give a fellow the sort of gravy they get now



BUT STILL -it was a premier govt JOB!



And Darcy made himself NOTORIOUS for speaking against the Irish radicals - the POOR MAN HAD BEEN INFECTED YOU SEE



with the Cdn way of doing things - and he was quite interested in how the Brits had managed to buy peace with the Quebecois


and he was SURE that something similar could be arranged with Ireland!


So poor Darcy went around assuring Irish people that if only they would put down the guns and STOP SHOOTING at the damned



Brits and start talking to them instead - then something sensible could be worked out!


And Sinn Fein took OFFENSE at such nonsense talk and a couple of guys waited outside our Parliament one dark February


evening and when Darcy came out - they shot him full of holes with a PISTOL!


So any Irish - from THE SAD OLD DAYS that took issue with being treated as being not quite house broken



SHOULD LOOK TO THEIR OWN HISTORY for some of the reasons why!
 
petros
+1
#44
tastetherainbow
 
petros
+1
#45
Who considered them white? Themselves?
 
Gilgamesh
+1
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

Oh BOOMER! the garbage you are trying to plant in peoples minds IS A LIE!


Wikipedia has THIS TO SAY ABOUT YOUR LIE - backed up by New York Times::::


"The Irish slave myth is a pseudohistory that falsely conflates the penal transportation and indentured servitude of Irish people during the 17th and 18th centuries with the hereditary chattel slavery experience of Africans."








A person in those old days might become an indentured servant in one of several ways:


Firstly - over an unpaid debt - with the debtor being ordered by a judge to work off the debt for a period of years!


Secondly - simple bankruptcy - in which a very poor man WOULD SELL HIS LABOUR as an indentured servant in exchange for food



and shelter for a time period in order to avoid STARVING OR FREEZING on a street corner1


The welfare state WAS NOT well established in those days!


Alternatively one might be ARRESTED for a variety of crimes such as smuggling, stealing arms and ammunition which we KNOW



was a favorite Irish habit even up to these modern times as IRA gunmen could attest; or arson for burning hay ricks or barns; being a



career criminal could also get you sold into indentured servitude for a period of time simply because English judges of that time



period DID NOT practice the hug a thug ways of modern LIE-beral judges - thus a career criminal would be "transported" to some



isolated British Colony and forced to labour for a period of time in order to PAY THE CROWN for the cost of shipping!


As long as the indentured servant did not steal from his owner; did not beat his owner; did not vandalize his owners property; did not



run away into the bush and hide and refuse to work - thus forcing the owner and his allies to mount a time consuming search for the



fleeing felon - usually on horseback and using dogs for tracking etc - the felon would EVENTUALLY BE RELEASED in exchange for


services rendered!


History - meaning WRITTEN RECORDS from the time - tells us that some indentured servants worked through their term without



TOO MUCH TROUBLE!



Others who were drunks or gamblers or habitual thieves or who simply had the BAD LUCK to be bought by a bad master



WOULD HAVE A ROUGHER TIME OF IT!


The lesson is just as valid for 16th century Irish peasants as it is for Cdn Sovereign natives - if you do not want legal troubles


THEN DO NOT DO THINGS THAT GET WILL YOU ARRESTED - like that native chief who was recently in the news simply because



the knucklehead could not be bothered getting new license stickers!



English and Irish have been fighting FOREVER and BOTH sides have committed atrocities!



I am reminded of a DISGUSTING NEWS article out of Ireland from some years back - cops in Londonderry found the body of a



woman who had been missing for over 30 years!



Long ago the woman had heard a commotion at her front door and opened it to find a dying Brit soldier laying there in a pool of blood



from gunshot wounds - and the dying man asked her for some water - which she gave him and he drank a little



before bleeding to death!


And the woman was SEEN offering aid to the Brits - so one fine night some IRA guys KIDNAPPED THE GOOD CATHOLIC



MOTHER OF SIX LITTLE KIDS and she DISAPPEARED into the night!



But the cops finally found her body 30 years later - buried in a potato field - with a LARGE CALIBRE PISTOL BULLET



IN HER SKULL! AND ALL OVER A GLASS OF WATER!


Oh yes the brave sons of EIRE have struck some GREAT BLOWS against the hated Brits!


The only REAL BEEF the Irish have is that the ENGLISH WERE SMARTER AND WON THE KEY BATTLES!


You INSULT YOUR OWN HISTORY with this "Irish Slave CRAP"!

It may have escaped a few of Canuckistanian personkind, but using my supercomputer it has calculated that 1625 was 375 years in the past.

Everyone kept slaves in those days.
Even if your nonsensical bullsh** WAS true,which it isn't it would be meaningless. Like you.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post

It may have escaped a few of Canuckistanian personkind, but using my supercomputer it has calculated that 1625 was 375 years in the past.
Everyone kept slaves in those days.
Even if your nonsensical bullsh** WAS true,which it isn't it would be meaningless. Like you.

Whatever they need to soothe their fears.

And it was 395. Just sayin'.
 
petros
+1
#48
What is the going "shake it off" timeline these days?
 
captain morgan
+4
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

What is the going "shake it off" timeline these days?


Doesn't exist.... Why would anyone voluntarily get rid of a good, convenient crutch?
 
spilledthebeer
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Doesn't exist.... Why would anyone voluntarily get rid of a good, convenient crutch?






TRUE DAT CAP!


Ireland is a free republic that SWIFTLY built itself up into a "Celtic Tiger"!


AND THEN DROVE ITSELF into its current BANKRUPT STATUS!


As one of the charter members of the PIGS club! The most impoverished clutch of nations in Europe!
 

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