Canada is the Most Overrated Country in the World


azkhan
#1
Hello All,

I just saw this interesting website and thought I should add my comments about Canada based on my own experience with that country.

First of all, let me say that I went to Toronto, Canada as a landed immigrant in Sept. 2004. I found it to be the worst city that I have ever visited. Being in Canada was a truly HORRIBLE experience for me and I left your country with all my heavy luggage after spending just 3 weeks there.

My view of Canadians and Canada:

(1) I encountered several obnoxious people there on the streets, in offices and shops. I was told that the Canadians are a very courteous people (and I did encounter some as well) but I didn't expect to see such behaviour. I have lived in Europe for about 28 years, and Europeans aren't exactly renowned for their openness towards newcomers, but even there I have never met so many uncouth people in such a short time-span.

(2) I saw lots of poverty in my three weeks in Toronto. You see drunkards sleeping on the streets and roaming about in the neighbourhoods. I saw one young man sprawled on the pavement at a busy intersection and when I approached him thought that he had had been killed or stabbed or something. I have never seen something like this before.

(3) My experience with searching for an accommodation was a nightmare. The many appartments I saw in downtown and suburban Toronto are crappy and uncomfortable. Moreover, they cost almost double what you pay for a similar facility in European cities. This is outrageous since you cannot compare a city like Toronto with fabulous European cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Munich, Vienna, Rome etc. Toronto is, comparatively speaking, second rate at best!

Not only is accommodation in Toronto frightfully expensive, but on top of all that you are expected to rent the places for one year in advance and you must fill out very long rental application forms which also require you to give the name, address and signature of a "guarantor" who will pay the rent if you can't!!! One rental office even had the gall to ask me to deposit 12 post-dated checks in advance. I have never been asked to supply such information or undergo such treatment in Europe, and I doubt it is even allowed under EU-law (privacy considerations etc.).

In one appartment building, I was told that if you have come to Canada as a landed immigrant and don't know anyone in Canada, then we can't offer you any appartment! I was told that in the US renting is easier but in Canada people don't like to accept certifications etc. from outside countries when renting accommodation. I found this downright insulting. It is pure discrimination against newcomers and, what's worse, the Canadian federal and provincial legislatures have not taken any action whatsoever to ban such outrageous discriminatory practices.

Canada and human rights! Remember when Canadian soldiers roasted Somali children alive over the fire. I hear that Canada lectures the world on human rights and discrimination, but itself apparently is one of the worst violators itself. Didn't the UN human rights body or some other organization like Amnesty International say this recently?

(4) In Toronto I couldn't even open a bank account because to do that you must have an accommodation and landline telephone number (no cell phone numbers!). But, you don't get an accmmodation if you don't have a bank account (and guarantor) to start with! I asked the bank manager if, as a foreigner I could open a bank account by giving my foreign address. I was told in Canada foreigners cannot open bank accounts - only Canadian nationals and landed immigrants can! What happened to mobility of capital I asked in reply? In Germany, I know several people residing outside the EU who came on a visit and opened bank accounts in German banks without any fuss whatsoever. There is no such stupid law there like in Canada.

I don't know what criteria people and organizations use to come up with statements like "Canada is the best place in the world in which to live etc." Obviously, they haven't seen Canada from the angle I have otherwise they wouldn't talk such rubbish. I found Canada to be an over-hyped country with an over-hyped standard of living, which I consider to be way behind Europe. I spent my three weeks at the Days Inn Hotel in Carlton Street in downtown Toronto and spent hours each evening walking kilometers either way down your Yonge Street, which is supposed to be the main thoroughfare in Toronto. I did not see any shops which interested me except for a few selling DVDs and CDs, and the hot dog stands at College Park. The quality of shopping in Toronto is vastly inferior to what I've seen in London or German cities. In one German city I lived in (Speyer, pop. 50,000), I have seen much higher quality goods (including speciality items) selling in the shops than I saw in the whole of your Toronto of 4 million souls, including its big shopping mall. I went to your China Town and couldn't believe what crap was being sold there and neither could I believe my eyes when I saw what junk was being sold at your Dr. Flea's Market.

All in all, I'd say that Canada is, at the very best, a truly second rate country for truly second rate people. It is nowhere near what is depicted in the media and by the hordes of immigration consultants desperate to make it rich quickly and easily by talking gullible immigrants into moving to Canada. I hear all the time that 200,000-250,000 people are migrating to Canada each year. I ask myself, how many would move if they knew what they're getting themselves into! I live in Pakistan now and I know many people here who have returned back to this country because of their disappointment with Canada. They learned it the hard way. I often wonder that, out of the 200,000-250,000 newcomers to Canada each year, how many would have opted not to go had they been better informed and how many return after going. I'm sure the number would be huge.

The worst thing Canada is doing is enticing people to come and live in that country with false promises of a better, more productive life which it doesn't intend to honour. You Canadians as a people should be ashamed of yourselves. You lure to your country the money and human resources which is needed by poor countries in order to facilitate their development, yet, you discriminate in the worst possible way against these unfortunate people once they get to your country. You refuse to acknowledge their professional qualifications and work experience, look down on them and make them feel like they have been accorded a great privilege to come and live in Canada.

I hope there is a special place in hell for your parasitical Canada and Canadian people.
 
Hank C Cheyenne
#2
........well don't come back here then...your not welcome.....

where the hell are you from?
 
Hank C Cheyenne
-1
#3
Quote:

I saw lots of poverty in my three weeks in Toronto. You see drunkards sleeping on the streets and roaming about in the neighbourhoods. I saw one young man sprawled on the pavement at a busy intersection and when I approached him thought that he had had been killed or stabbed or something. I have never seen something like this before.

what are you talking about...Toronto is the safest large city in Canada! If you are comparing us to European countries like England/Sweden/France, then I can understand because we have a much more violent culture...... but you said your from Pakistan which has much more poverty and crime!

...dang if you thought Toronto was scary then you would not want to see Edmonton or Winnipeg.....

Have you ever been to the USA?
 
zenfisher
+1
#4
I'm sorry your experience was uninspiring. However this is one city in an immense country. Somehow as a world traveller that you are I find it strange that you have never come across poverty before. Given the rudeness of your letter, I don't doubt that you would have encountered many problems.
 
no1important
#5
azkhan is just a flaming troll trying to stir up trouble.
 
JomZ
#6
Hello Azkhan, welcome to the site. I'm sorry that Canada isn't your favourite place, it isn't everybodies'. But wishing the majority of us, who have not done anything to you directly or even met you, to go to hell begs the question of why people were rude to you. It gives a first impression that you are not a very nice, or for that matter happy person.


You base your arguments on Toronto and Toronto only, which is one city of this country of many diverse cities. You base your trials on being unable to afford to live in a major city, so why move here if you do not have the money to survive here. You critisize the quality of our retail sector based on shopping in malls, flea markets, and ethnic centers for quality goods, and compare it to London. Yet you stay in a Days Inn on Carlton.


Wake up. This is not the New World anymore, North America is not the place where you come here poor and strike it rich instantly. There is more required to living in a stable nation, then just picking up and moving. If you pick up and change countries without having full knowledge of what you are getting in too, then whose fault is that. The information is on the internet, which you seem to have access to. 30,000,000+ people live here and they don't have much to complain about. Yes Canada isn't perfect, but what country is?
 
Frappuccino Dibs
#7
Azkhan:

I think it's only fair the fire is fought with fire here.

Lesson 1: Poverty exists in all countries. Here in the UK you will see plenty of people sleeping in doorways and on benches. The worst poverty I've seen was in Egypt. The kids beg for things like pens etc. so that they can go to school. If you give them money they will get beaten up for it.

Lesson 2: Obnoxious people are everywhere. Hell! it would appear that your one of them.

Lesson 3: If you had done the mearist bit of research before you'd jumped feet first in to living in a different country, you would have know that accomodation and bank accounts are requirements that you should have made efforts to obtain or at least educate yourself on the facets of before you made the move.

Lesson 4: Don't post such a long drawn out short sighted post against Canadian people on a Canadian forum.

Your closing comments were insulting and rude and I seriously doubt that any of the people on this forum are personally responsible for your lack of planning.

If the beggining of fanatisism is blaming an entire culture for the failing of a tiny minority, then you are well on your way to strapping a bomb to your body and killing a few school kids.

Final lesson 5: Grow up!
 
Jo Canadian
#8
They didn't make a song called Toronto Sucks for a reason.
 
peapod
#9
Had to leave the country with all yur heavy luggage bloody wimp!
 
annabattler
#10
After I got over my initial reaction to this post, I began to wonder.....

Azkhan certainly seems well-versed in English, and seems comfortable with use of the internet. That being said,he/she surely had the skills to check out Canada and Toronto during his/her wait for immigration clearance. Surely an immigrant would want to know as much as possible about the city he plans to live in....availability of jobs,housing,transportation,banking customs,etc.etc.
 
peapod
#11
yes the whole thing seems a bit contrived innit? man these guys are so bad at this
 
Andem
Free Thinker
+2
#12  Top Rated Post
Quote:

(1) I encountered several obnoxious people there on the streets, in offices and shops. I was told that the Canadians are a very courteous people (and I did encounter some as well) but I didn't expect to see such behaviour. I have lived in Europe for about 28 years, and Europeans aren't exactly renowned for their openness towards newcomers, but even there I have never met so many uncouth people in such a short time-span.

That's nice to hear, but I find it hard to believe after being throughout Europe and finding how pushy Germans are, LOL. When comparing Europeans (atleast Swiss, Germans, French, Polish, English, Italians), I find Canadians much much more friendly and approachable. Infact, the 'Canadian Thing to do' is to hold the door for people behind you, help a woman with a baby carriage up the stairs, assist people who need it. Sorry mate, but I find more Canadians are willing to help than Europeans.

Quote:

(2) I saw lots of poverty in my three weeks in Toronto. You see drunkards sleeping on the streets and roaming about in the neighbourhoods.

Try visiting any American or East European city then. Toronto is extremely safe and has a high employment rate.

Quote:

(3) My experience with searching for an accommodation was a nightmare. The many appartments I saw in downtown and suburban Toronto are crappy and uncomfortable. Moreover, they cost almost double what you pay for a similar facility in European cities.

Have you ever tried searching for accomidation in Paris, Rome, Munich, Zurich, London? Man, you're full of it! Convert the currency and you'll find there are more expensive places to live in Europe in the cities I listed.

Quote:

This is outrageous since you cannot compare a city like Toronto with fabulous European cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Munich, Vienna, Rome etc. Toronto is, comparatively speaking, second rate at best!

Oh really? You're damn right you cannot compare any of these cities to Toronto!

London: High cost of living, increasing gap between the rich and poor AND a large choice of ghettos for foreigners. Pollution, Smog. If you have any heart conditions, DONT LIVE IN LONDON!

Paris: If you really insist, you can live among the streets that smell like urine and and architecture which has never been renewed or upkept.

Berlin: Come on, as much as I like living in Berlin, it's not a world-class city like Toronto. 20% unemployment, a city-debt larger than ... well. No need to say anymore.

Munich: Ok. The cost of renting an apartment in Munich is really, really expensive and you don't even get the big-city amenities of Toronto. This city it's self is like a police state, they gotta have the rudest cops in the world.

Vienna: It's like Munich, except the people there are twice the age and the city was built for senior citizens or something.. Toronto has everything, so why would you compare Vienna to Toronto? It's a beautiful city, but I would never want to live in Wien.

Rome: No comment, never been.

Quote:

In Toronto I couldn't even open a bank account because to do that you must have an accommodation and landline telephone number (no cell phone numbers!).

That's bull! I know from first hand experience, since my telephone number on my Canadian back accounts are a) a Cell number and b) a foreign cell number +49.

Quote:

I asked the bank manager if, as a foreigner I could open a bank account by giving my foreign address. I was told in Canada foreigners cannot open bank accounts

Oh really? Bull again! I regularly receive statements every month from TD Bank and Scotiabank, Visa and Mastercard. Guess what? I live in Germany and my accounts are all flagged as 'foreigner' and 35% interest tax withheld.

Quote:

and I doubt it is even allowed under EU-law (privacy considerations etc.).

Just you being able to immigrate into the EU would be a miracle come true for you, I would guess. As a pakistani, I'm sure you'd LOVE to experience the "Auslšnder raus!" in Germany or the "ťtranger merde" in France! Nobody over here in Europe is very open to welcoming foreigners like Canada. Stay in Pakistan! Your own country!!

Quote:

Canada and human rights! Remember when Canadian soldiers roasted Somali children alive over the fire. I hear that Canada lectures the world on human rights and discrimination, but itself apparently is one of the worst violators itself. Didn't the UN human rights body or some other organization like Amnesty International say this recently?

Oh come on, you're just talking out of your ass now. Get over it, Canada wasn't your dream come true... Stay in Asia, then.

Quote:

The worst thing Canada is doing is enticing people to come and live in that country with false promises of a better, more productive life which it doesn't intend to honour.

You think it's upto the Canadian people to make your life better? No need to comment on that one. Make your own moves in life.

Quote:

I hope there is a special place in hell for your parasitical Canada and Canadian people.

Parasitical? Mate, that would be you, not us. You came to Canada hoping for a free ride on the government and it's people. You lost out and weren't able to do what (probably) your family or friends were able to do a few years ago. You PROBABLY have friends in Germany because their social net is so exploitable now, and hense you've heard good things about this country (Germany). I bet your opinion will change once Merkel makes the reforms she promises.
 
Texas1
#13
azkhan:

Please get the word out, tell everyone you can find that will listen, and take out full page ads, maybe even some TV spots; you can be the poster boy for why we donít need anymore in Canada.

Keep up the good work.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#14
BTW, every single one of the points I rebutted were from personal, first-hand experience. So I know what is a lie and what's not.
 
Jo Canadian
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Texas1

azkhan:

Please get the word out, tell everyone you can find that will listen, and take out full page ads, maybe even some TV spots; you can be the poster boy for why we donít need anymore in Canada.

Keep up the good work.

Living up to the namesake eh? Believe something on hearsay, and willing to kick and scream about the infallible truth of it all. Last time I checked the fridge is still white unless azkhan has told you otherwise.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#16
Sorry, I'd like to add something to my comments about comparing Munich and Toronto:

Munich: Ok. The cost of renting an apartment in Munich is really, really expensive and you don't even get the big-city amenities of Toronto. This city it's self is like a police state, they gotta have the rudest cops in the world. If you look non-European, be sure to be asked for your "grŁne Versicherungskarte" every single day (maybe even twice) at the main train station. Munich Police have really gotta be the most racist cops in Germany.
 
Reverend Blair
#17
Quote:

Last time I checked the fridge is still white

I wanna paint my fridge Allis Chalmers orange, but Mrs. Rev won't let me.

Quote:

you can be the poster boy for why we donít need anymore in Canada.

Why we don't need anymore what in Canada? How come your name is Texass but when talking about Canada, you say "we".

Anyway, I'd bet that Azkhan is either from Alberta or the US. I doubt he's ever seen Toronto and I doubt he ever will. So we have a Texan who thinks he's from Canada and a Pakistani who sounds like a redneck form Alberta.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#18
Nah, Rev... he really is Pakistani.

He's upset he couldn't ride on our social net.
 
MMMike
#19
I think Toronto is a great city... but I don't agree that it is a "world class" city. Reaching a little, there.

Quote:

The worst thing Canada is doing is enticing people to come and live in that country with false promises of a better, more productive life which it doesn't intend to honour. You Canadians as a people should be ashamed of yourselves. You lure to your country the money and human resources which is needed by poor countries in order to facilitate their development, yet, you discriminate in the worst possible way against these unfortunate people once they get to your country. You refuse to acknowledge their professional qualifications and work experience, look down on them and make them feel like they have been accorded a great privilege to come and live in Canada.

Some element of truth here. How many engineers, doctors etc... work here driving cabs or delivering pizzas? Too many. We have no coherent strategy for absorbing these skilled professionals into their chosen fields. What a waste.... and now they are talking about dramatic increases in immigration. Let's make use of the people we get now before opening the floodgates.
 
Reverend Blair
#20
The failing isn't necessarily in not accepting their credentials though, MMMike. I want our doctors and engineers and even our plumbers to know what the hell they are doing. The failing is in encouraging them to come, then not finding ways for them to prove that their credentials are valid or provide them training to bring those credentials up to our standards.

We do need immigrants. Our birth rate is not enough to replenish our population and it gives people a chance to find a better life here. Our system is overly restrictive though, not too lax.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#21
>>You refuse to acknowledge their professional qualifications and work experience, look down on them and make them feel like they have been accorded a great privilege to come and live in Canada.

It _IS_ a priviledge to be allowed to live and work in Canada. But 2 things.. Immigrant professionals may become competition to Canadian university graduates, which would hinder a Canadian's ability to succeed. I'm more, and always will be, in favour of a Canadian to make a living than an immigrant who's come here looking for work.

The next thing: If someone is trained in Pakistan or Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean they meet the qualifications of Canadian or North American standards.

It's sad that immigrants come from countries with lower standards than Canada, but it's not our fault and these people are just bashing Canada because they were never able to make it here.
 
LeftCoast
#22
I think Ashcan is just stirring the pot trying to get a response.

I find it amusing that he is comparing the cost of a hotel in Toronto to that in London, Paris or Rome. Ha! I have lived in Vancouver, San Francisco and London. My brother lived in Toronto for 10 years so I have visited numerous times. London is probably the most expensive place I have ever seen. 80 pounds per night will get you a flea bag hotel out by Heathrow. Rome - again expect to spend at least $150/night if you want clean sheets and plumbing that works.

Poverty - again, try San Francisco where to walk on Market Street you practically have to trip over all the homeless people sleeping in doorways. Golden Gate Park and Ocean Beach both smell like urine. London and Paris both have thier share of indigents. Rome in the summer has bands of Rom (gypsy) children who will rob you blind.

I have to say that Munich is one of the cleanest and most orderly European cities I have been to. The public transportation is excellent. Beautiful parks - oh and you gotta like the beer gardens. I also met some of the nicest strangers in Munich. I robbed at knife point on a train from Venice to Munich and had pretty much everything stollen (welcome to Italy) and a perfect stranger in Munich whom I met on the S-Bahn (elevated train) took me into his home for 3 days while I got my passport, green card (I was living in SF at the time) and credit cards replaced.

Rome has fabulous shopping but watch out for the street urchins in the summer time. Poverty is also apparent from the people sleeping in the underground, Roman ruins and train stations.

London - like I said, very expensive. Also I pitty the soul in London who has to get around in a wheelchair or pushing a baby stroller. Few of the tubes have elevators, none of the buses are wheelchair accessible.

Renting in any city is a trial. In Vancouver (where I am a landlord) they usually ask for references, a credit check, a damage deposit (1/2 months rent) and the first months rent in advance. Some landlords prefer (but legally can't demand) 12 months worth of post dated cheques. Many landlords in many cities are not professional property managers and it really sucks when you have to pay the mortgage on your 2nd property and your tenent is late with the rent.

In San Francisco most landlords ask for the first and last months rent plus a damage deposit in advance.

I rented in London and had to put up a whole month's rent as a security deposit. I also needed 3 personal references in England - not from Canada or the US.

I have a friend who lives in Paris and she tells me that getting a decent appartment requires that you know someone - sometimes in the biblical sense of the word. She had one landlord offer her the flat if she slept with him AND HIS WIFE. Paris taxi drivers are famous for ripping people off.

Banking - when we first moved to San Francisco, even though I had 15 years of good credit history in Canada, and Canada uses the same credit rating companies as the US does, to get a US credit card I had to put up a $1000 security deposit for 1 year to guarantee my credit card.

Rude people - try New York!

The point is - every country has its idiosynchratic aspects. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in Toronto. But given your apparent attitude of entitlement - my guess is you would complain about anywhere you went. If you really prefer (where ever home is) - stay there - you won't be disappointed.

BTW - how did you move to Toronto AS A LANDED IMMIGRANT. Usually it takes several years to get landed immigrant status in Canada.
 
PoisonPete2
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

The failing isn't necessarily in not accepting their credentials though, MMMike. I want our doctors and engineers and even our plumbers to know what the hell they are doing. The failing is in encouraging them to come, then not finding ways for them to prove that their credentials are valid or provide them training to bring those credentials up to our standards.

We do need immigrants. Our birth rate is not enough to replenish our population and it gives people a chance to find a better life here. Our system is overly restrictive though, not too lax.

Answer - if anything, our standards are lower then those in many countries. Often they have 5 to 7 year apprenticeships for skills Canada accredits in 3 years. Damned suchi chef is a 10 year apprenticeship in Japan. Also higher education is often to a higher level then in Canada, including medicine and engineering. The main drawback is that they may not have exposure to the technical aspects (the machine that goes beep) but usually a tecki runs that anyway.

Our thing is that we have associations that protect the interests of their membership, often at the expense of providing adequate access by the end user. These self-serving associations should be reigned in, especially the CMA.
 
Reverend Blair
#24
Quote:

Immigrant professionals may become competition to Canadian university graduates, which would hinder a Canadian's ability to succeed. I'm more, and always will be, in favour of a Canadian to make a living than an immigrant who's come here looking for work.

We are short on people though, Andem. It's not a problem that's likely to go away either. It isn't just doctors and engineers either, it's people in the trades.


Quote:

The next thing: If someone is trained in Pakistan or Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean they meet the qualifications of Canadian or North American standards.

If somebody is qualified in Pakistan or Iran though, they are generally well on their way to being qualified here. We should let them know that they will need upgrading, then help them get that upgrading if they are willing to meet certain conditions.

Quote:

It's sad that immigrants come from countries with lower standards than Canada, but it's not our fault and these people are just bashing Canada because they were never able to make it here.

Ashcan here is bashing Canada, but I doubt he is who he says he is or has seen what he claims to have seen. That doesn't mean that there aren't very real problems though. We do need immigrants and the old saying that nothing in life is free goes both ways. They want to come here, but we also need them to come here. Lately our government's answer has been to demand money and offer little or nothing in return.
 
MMMike
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

The failing isn't necessarily in not accepting their credentials though, MMMike. I want our doctors and engineers and even our plumbers to know what the hell they are doing. The failing is in encouraging them to come, then not finding ways for them to prove that their credentials are valid or provide them training to bring those credentials up to our standards.

We do need immigrants. Our birth rate is not enough to replenish our population and it gives people a chance to find a better life here. Our system is overly restrictive though, not too lax.

I agree completely. I know from experience that an "engineer" from overseas may not have the same knowledge and training as an engineer here. Bottom line is, governments need to work more closely with the regulatory agencies to better absorb these trained immigrants. Until we do that, no point in inviting more.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#26
Quote:

I agree completely. I know from experience that an "engineer" from overseas may not have the same knowledge and training as an engineer here. Bottom line is, governments need to work more closely with the regulatory agencies to better absorb these trained immigrants. Until we do that, no point in inviting more.

As do I.. but it's still not our responsibility to upgrade their skills for them, nor is it Canada's place to pay for their education. We can give them tips, sure.. maybe even a student loan.

I'm guess they might come here, see the price of education for a year and then decide they can't upgrade their skills and become able to work in their trade here... so they work as taxi drivers.

Really though, what do we do? Pay for their education so they can use their renewed diplomas to work in the U.S.? We already have enough brain-drain to the south. I think we should have improved, more affordable education, for Canadians before we start focusing on immigrants who hate this country after they get here.

What about allowing more immigration from Europe? Standards here are more compatible with Canada's and it seems the only people complaining are from the third world. We can't make everybody happy, and it's not our obligation to.
 
Reverend Blair
#27
Quote:

Really though, what do we do? Pay for their education so they can use their renewed diplomas to work in the U.S.?

Pay for their educations as long as they go where they are sent for a limited period of time. Do the same with Canadians too. Like I said, it goes both ways.

Small towns are always begging for professionals, from tradespeople to doctors and lawyers. Pay for the education and require that be paid back by working in a small town for a certain amount of time, depending on the cost of the education. It would revitalise our small towns and provide necessary services that are now lacking.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#28
But Rev, most immigrants don't goto small towns. They goto Vancouver or Toronto.

I doubt the forcing to work in small towns would work very well.
 
bevvyd
#29
Some of these 'professionals' are coming from countries that are ripe with unethical, illegal and unsafe practises and in some countries (India for instance) the inspectors are paid off or paid to look the other way.

Personally if I land in emergency I want a doctor that speaks English not some other language, or has to stop and think how to phrase his/her next sentence.
 
MMMike
#30
Andem, I'm not saying we should pay for their education, or upgrade their skills for them. I am saying that there should be a clear method of evaluating their knowledge (BEFORE THEY COME HERE), and clear method to upgrade their education, and support while doing it. That's only half of the equation, though. You still have to get employers to hire them, which is the hardest step of all.
 

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