Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming?


B00Mer
+2
#1  Top Rated Post
For those that think Trudeau going to the Paris conference is going to be good for the country as the earth is warming. Wrong, scientist around the world have announced that they have gotten the models wrong due to computer miscalculation.

Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming?

While Arctic sea ice continues to decline, Antarctic levels are confounding the world’s most trusted climate models with record highs for the third year running. Karl Mathiesen investigates.



Antarctic ice floes extended further than ever recorded this southern winter, confounding the world’s most-trusted climate models.

“It’s not expected,” says Professor John Turner, a climate expert at the British Antarctic Survey. “The world’s best 50 models were run and 95% of them have Antarctic sea ice decreasing over the past 30 years.”

The winter ice around the southern continent has been growing relatively constantly since records began in 1979. The US National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC), which monitors sea ice using satellite data, said this week that the year’s maximum was 1.54m sq km (595,000 sq miles) above the 1981-2010 average. The past three winters have all produced record levels of ice.



This contrasts sharply with the continuing decline of sea ice in the Arctic, which again recorded below average levels of ice during the summer. The 10 lowest recorded sea ice minimums – i.e. the lowest extent of sea ice in the summer – have all occurred in the past 10 years. This decline is consistent with climate models, every one of which predicts that continued man-made greenhouse gas emissions will eventually cause Arctic summer ice to disappear completely.

But Dr Claire Parkinson, a senior scientist at Nasa’s Goddard Space Flight Centre, says increasing Antarctic ice does not contradict the general warming trend. Overall the Earth is losing sea ice at a rate of 35,000 sq km per year (13,514 sq miles).

“Not every location on the Earth is having the same responses to climate changes. The fact that ice in one part of the world is doing one thing and in another part ice is doing another is not surprising. The Earth is large and as the climate changes it is normal to see different things going on,” says Parkinson.

In a video made by Eco Audit reader and journalist Fraser Johnston, Dr Guy Williams, a sea ice scientist at the Tasmanian Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies (Imas), says that even though it had fooled climate models the increasing sea ice was well understood by scientists.

“In some ways it’s a bit counterintuitive for people trying to understand how global warming is affecting our polar regions, but in fact it’s actually completely in line with how climate scientists expect Antarctica and the Southern Ocean to respond. Particularly in respect to increased winds and increased melt water,” said Williams.

To explain why Antarctic sea ice fails to fit comfortably with a simple ‘warmer world, less ice’ narrative, it is necessary to understand that the climate system has many layers of competing effects. Often only the largest of these will be obvious or detectable.

Currently, the effect of greenhouse gases is being overshadowed by other local climate phenomena, says Turner. “By far the biggest impact has been the ozone hole. The signal of increasing greenhouse gases is buried beneath all the other signals.”

The depletion of the ozone layer above Antarctica during last century by emissions of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) has caused an overall cooling trend on the continent.

Ozone itself is a greenhouse gas and its reduction has seen more heat reflecting back into space. Although the ozone hole has begun to show the first signs of recovery, levels are still significantly reduced. Parkinson says the loss of ozone is probably the second largest human impact on global climate after carbon dioxide.

One of the effects of ozone loss on the Antarctic has been the increasing frequency and ferocity of winds and storms around the continent. According to Turner, ozone depletion has caused winds in the Southern Ocean to increase by 15-20%. In particular, the cooling trend may have caused a low pressure system in the Amundsen sea to increase in intensity or frequency.

This vortex sucks air from the frozen inside of the continent and it rushes out over the Ross Sea to the west. This is where 80% of Antarctica’s ice expansion has occurred.




The effect of the intensifying winds is coupled with a massive dump of cold, fresh water into the Ross Sea from the Pine Island glacier. This water, which floats on the surface, is less dense, colder and freezes more easily than the sea water below, and when it is struck by storm winds from the continent it forms ice floes.

It is estimated that the Pine Island glacier alone loses so much water that it is responsible for 10% of global annual sea level rise (which is about 3mm per year). Warm currents come from deep water and heat the underside of the ice sheet, causing it to melt. Turner says this process probably has little to do with global warming. “Pine Island seems to be an ongoing retreat that could have been going on for 10,000 years,” he says.



Further complicating the picture is the El Niņo Southern Oscillation (Enso), which Turner believes is a factor in both the increase of storms and the warm currents that melt the ice.

Sea ice in Antarctica is very different to its northern counterpart. In the south, ice melts away almost completely every year. The new ice produced each year is thinner and more volatile than the older more stable ice in the Arctic. These large fluctuations, said Turner, meant the “input” of greenhouse gases was not yet the dominant force in the region’s climate.

Parkinson says that it is likely that global warming will eventually overtake these other factors.

“A few decades from now it might turn out that Antarctic ice decreases. I don’t think that would be a surprise at all. If warming reaches the level people think it might in the next few decades then its going to eventually reach the Antarctic and the sea ice will start to decrease.”

source: Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming? | Environment | The Guardian
 
Blackleaf
+1
#2
It'll not be long before a bunch of left-wing luvvies go there to try and "draw attention to the problem of climate change" and, once again, get stuck in the ice, leading to people having to come and rescue them.
 
Walter
#3
More excuses from the deniers.
 
Blackleaf
#4


 
B00Mer
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

More excuses from the deniers.

Da Faq? You believe in Global Warming Walter? You and AnalFloss solemates?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUGB0zUlUxo
 
Walter
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Da Faq? You believe in Global Warming Walter? You and AnalFloss solemates?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUGB0zUlUxo

Read the article not just the headline. As soon as I saw it was a Guardian piece I knew it was from the deniers of facts.
 
Dexter Sinister
-1
#7
Well now, there are two serious problems with that argument. First, an argument using a regional phenomenon to disprove a global trend is dead in the water. Second, the Antarctic could warm quite a lot and still be well below zero on average. One consequence of warming is increased precipitation, and increased precipitation in the Antarctic means the ice cover will grow.
 
coldstream
+1
#8
Why.. because it's all damn lie.

It has nothing to do with science. It is a platform of a sinister philosophical and political agenda. The gaps and contradictions in theory started appearing almost as soon as it was developed.. which means its has to be constantly revised to match evidence that undermines it. In fact it has NEVER been able to predict anything.. all of its original projections are utterly refuted by fact. But this has never been about facts.. it's always been about fear.

Even the name has been changed. It's now 'Climate Change' or 'Extreme Weather' .. which allows it to incorporate ALL weather events as proving its hypothesis, even those clearly corresponding to cold weather.. and even when the original logic has totally unravelled.

But don't expect it to stop. They know there are a segment of weak and credulous intellects who define themselves by labels.. are incapable of independent reason.. and who will believe anything they are told providing in enlists them as members of some group.. and some of them are in influential positions.. like Justin Trudeau.
Last edited by coldstream; Oct 27th, 2015 at 01:15 PM..
 
Ludlow
#9
too many blue whales causin the sea levels to rise, kinda like when you get into a bath tub. Blue whales are horny creatures and there is just too damn many of them . Pretty soon places like California and Florida will be under water because the blue whales won't stop having sex,,because they're horny creatures.
 
Walter
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post

too many blue whales causin the sea levels to rise, kinda like when you get into a bath tub. Blue whales are horny creatures and there is just too damn many of them . Pretty soon places like California and Florida will be under water because the blue whales won't stop having sex,,because they're horny creatures.

Your argument reminds me of this, and this guy is many times elected congressman and lawyer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q
 
AnnaG
#11
The last I heard was that the ancient ice under Antarctic ice sheets was melting faster than the surface ice was accumulating. Kind of like what is happening to Greenland.

Stable Antarctic Ice Is Suddenly Melting Fast - Scientific American <--- science media.

Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming? | Environment | The Guardian <--- news media
 
Walter
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

The last I heard was that the ancient ice under Antarctic ice sheets was melting faster than the surface ice was accumulating. Kind of like what is happening to Greenland.

Stable Antarctic Ice Is Suddenly Melting Fast - Scientific American <--- science media.

Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming? | Environment | The Guardian <--- news media

Sure it is.
 
AnnaG
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post

too many blue whales causin the sea levels to rise, kinda like when you get into a bath tub. Blue whales are horny creatures and there is just too damn many of them . Pretty soon places like California and Florida will be under water because the blue whales won't stop having sex,,because they're horny creatures.

Nuke 'em.
 
Walter
#14
There is no AGW.
 
Ludlow
-1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

The last I heard was that the ancient ice under Antarctic ice sheets was melting faster than the surface ice was accumulating. Kind of like what is happening to Greenland.

Stable Antarctic Ice Is Suddenly Melting Fast - Scientific American <--- science media.

Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming? | Environment | The Guardian <--- news media

clearly you've been negligent in your Rush Limbo bullshyte time. I'd suggest you turn your radio back on.
 
lone wolf
+1
#16
It's just thickening up for the asteroid impact, the earthquakes and volcanoes and a Liberal convention
 
AnnaG
#17
Well, everyone has an opinion and there is enough bilgewater and errors from both sides to completely blanket from sight the facts involved. So far as I am concerned, the entire issue is irrelevant to most humans and only the ones with high a-nal-retentive factors get all huffy. I just say what I read or hear that sounds plausible. So shoot the messenger, petty people.
 
petros
#18
Don't pet the sweaty things.
 
AnnaG
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Don't pet the sweaty things.

lol That, too.
 
selfsame
#20
The south pole is influenced less than the north pole; i.e. the north pole melts more than does the south pole: while on Mars the opposite is correct as I remember.
The planets including the earth circle around the sun in a plane lower than the equatorial plane of the sun.
If we see this nice picture of children playing with the merry go round:

the children here resemble the planets, while the top of the column in the middle or the top of the axis resembles the sun; so here the north pole receives more heat of the sun than does the south pole.
This is only my idea and the idea of some of my friends.

Of course this is only a picture to demonstrate the idea, while the planets are not like such angle: they are circling just below the plane of the sun equator.
 
AnnaG
#21
That is a bunch of coocoo puffs.
A wise person would quit trying to get serious and factual scientific information out of a religious text.
 
MHz
#22
That would be because other areas are the ones heating up. In the south it is around Australia, in the north it is the west coast of North America that is warming up but the east is cooling off more so snow will be on the ground longer in most locations.
 
selfsame
#23
The planets do not circle around the sun haphazardly, but they follow the spinning movement of the sun and electromagnetic field which is about the equatorial plane of the sun.
In other words they do not circle around the plane of the two poles of the sun.
They circle in the equatorial plane, but not exactly: they orbit in a plane just below the equatorial plane of the sun.

 
MHz
#24
There are other places where the ice is growing also. The US and Canada better hope the Atlantic waters don't start producing snow fall that are of the magnitude that Buffalo gets from 'lake effect snow falls' as it would be 20ft rather than 2ft.
http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm
 
DaSleeper
#25
****
 
selfsame
#26
This image may give a better explanation of the idea


The sun is the upper disc and the persons resemble the planets and they circle around the sun in a plane lower than the plane of the disc or the sun.
And for this reason the head or the north pole receives more heat than the foot of the person or the south pole.
 
Ludlow
+1
#27
scientists are just tryin to get grants . It's all horse poopey all about the money ain't nothing happenin in those clear brown,,,erm,,I mean blue skys.
 
selfsame
#28
Huh huh huh.
 
Glacier
#29
Antarctic sea ice is currently above average, but no where near record extent. Not sure why the spikes exist.

 
AnnaG
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by selfsame View Post

They circle in the equatorial plane, but not exactly: they orbit in a plane just below the equatorial plane of the sun.[/CENTER]

Orbit is a better word because their orbits are not circular.

Quote: Originally Posted by selfsame View Post

This image may give a better explanation of the idea


The sun is the upper disc and the persons resemble the planets and they circle around the sun in a plane lower than the plane of the disc or the sun.

Because gravity pulls them down a little bit, right?
Quote:

And for this reason the head or the north pole receives more heat than the foot of the person or the south pole.

Except for when ice travelled from north to south during a couple ice ages, right?

Just about everyone and their dog talks about sea ice and almost everyone and their dog ignores sheet/land ice.
Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?