What is a Christian?

Cliffy
#1
I was sent this link by a friend. I found it very interesting. What do you think?
YouTube - Why does every intelligent Christian disobey Jesus?
 
Dexter Sinister
#2
Yes, that is very interesting, and I generally agree with it. He missed one obvious possible conclusion from his argument though: if you want to go the heaven when you die, you should poison yourself right now.
 
talloola
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Yes, that is very interesting, and I generally agree with it. He missed one obvious possible conclusion from his argument though: if you want to go the heaven when you die, you should poison yourself right now.

or, go to confession right now, and take the poison with you.
 
VanIsle
#4
I've never quite understood the reason for "confession" since we have an all seeing God. He is also an all forgiving God so the vid is fine but it forgets that we can ask for forgiveness at the end of our lives and we will be forgiven as long as we really feel remorse.
Wars are just one of the things that happen because man makes them happen. Why is it up to God to stop them? Too many bad things are done in the name of religion not because of religious beliefs.
 
karrie
#5
I find it funny when people stand outside a religion and try to dictate how they think its followers should interpret/follow the tenets of that religion.

If you think the religion is such bull****, why spend so much time worrying about it and studying it?
 
gerryh
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

If you think the religion is such bull****, why spend so much time worrying about it and studying it?


Because they feel itimidated and threatened since they don't understand it. So, they expend inordinate amounts of time and energy trying to tear it down so they can justify to themselves the reason why they don't understand and don't "believe".
 
karrie
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Because they feel itimidated and threatened since they don't understand it. So, they expend inordinate amounts of time and energy trying to tear it down so they can justify to themselves the reason why they don't understand and don't "believe".

Hmmm.... that doesn't quite seem like it to me for the large majority of people I know, but, perhaps a few.
 
Dexter Sinister
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

If you think the religion is such bull****, why spend so much time worrying about it and studying it?

Because it powerfully affects how people behave. It's important. I'd have thought that would be perfectly obvious to you.
 
karrie
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Because it powerfully affects how people behave. It's important. I'd have thought that would be perfectly obvious to you.

It is and it isn't. The sheer volume on here gets perplexing.
 
karrie
#10
to give it further thought Dex... my low opinion of obsessing over other's viewpoints extends the other way too though... I hate evangelism and attempts to make atheists look stupid too.
 
talloola
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I find it funny when people stand outside a religion and try to dictate how they think its followers should interpret/follow the tenets of that religion.

If you think the religion is such bull****, why spend so much time worrying about it and studying it?

We have a very good example of someone like that on this board. Dexter is a
gatherer of information, so that he can have an intelligent informed opinion,
on many subjects.

I'm somewhat like that too, although he has far exceeded me in knowledge,
so I am not trying to parrallel myself with him, want to make that clear.
I just like to know what's going on, in lots of different aspects of life.

Just because one doesn't believe in something, it isn't an excuse to ignore it.
I encouraged all of my daughters to learn about religion, so that they
understand it, and from there they can form an opinion, and also have some
knowledge to discuss the matter, from both sides of the subject.
Life is full of curiosities, fun to look into many of them, don't have to agree
with them, but one learns.
 
karrie
#12
well put talloola.

So, would you expect that people have to take from religion what you would take from religion if you were to believe and decide to belong to one?
 
strange
#13
this guy sounds like the narrator form the Wonder Years. AHHHHH Kevin grew up and loves rationality.
 
In Between Man
#14
The video in the original post is completely wrong!!!

A Christian is not someone who obeys Jesus.
A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is God and that his death atones for his sins. That's it. No obedience. Loving your enemies and being kind to the poor is how your suppose to act regardless.

Not to mention that unbelievers still follow the ten commandants. They don't steal and kill, yet it certainly doesn't score them any points.

If you had to be good to get into heaven, what good would a death bed confession be? Remember I said its a door, not a path? Even at your last breath you still have a chance to accept the free gift of having a relationship with Papa. He wants billions and billions of people with him in eternity, it must be a simple mechanism to reach him, not a difficult one.

What is a Christian? Someone who walks through the door.

What is a Religious person? Well, a Christian religious person is someone who is stunted in a relationship with God because they hold onto stereotypes, or they purposely contort an image of God to fit they're lifestyle or control others. Or they over observe man made rituals not prescribed by God. A perfect example of this is Catholicism. An example of ritual would be praying to Mary, or having the priest wave incense, or all the robes, stain glass, and esp. hierarchy.
 
AnnaG
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Yes, that is very interesting, and I generally agree with it. He missed one obvious possible conclusion from his argument though: if you want to go the heaven when you die, you should poison yourself right now.

Suicide is a sin, remember? lol
 
AnnaG
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz View Post

The video in the original post is completely wrong!!!

A Christian is not someone who obeys Jesus.
A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is God and that his death atones for his sins. That's it. No obedience. Loving your enemies and being kind to the poor is how your suppose to act regardless.

So Clifford Olson, William Pickton, Jeffrey Dahmer, Polpot, Stalin can do (could do) whatever they wanted but as long as they thought Jesus was god they could ignore anything he said and still get into heaven? wow That's twisted.

Quote:

Not to mention that unbelievers still follow the ten commandants. They don't steal and kill, yet it certainly doesn't score them any points.

If you had to be good to get into heaven, what good would a death bed confession be? Remember I said its a door, not a path? Even at your last breath you still have a chance to accept the free gift of having a relationship with Papa. He wants billions and billions of people with him in eternity, it must be a simple mechanism to reach him, not a difficult one.

So one could be the nastiest creature on the planet and never have done any good whatsoever and still get into heaven. Yup, that's definitely twisted.

Quote:

What is a Christian? Someone who walks through the door.

Quote:


What is a Religious person? Well, a Christian religious person is someone who is stunted in a relationship with God because they hold onto stereotypes, or they purposely contort an image of God to fit they're lifestyle or control others. Or they over observe man made rituals not prescribed by God. A perfect example of this is Catholicism. An example of ritual would be praying to Mary, or having the priest wave incense, or all the robes, stain glass, and esp. hierarchy.

But as long as Catholics or whatever think Jesus is god, it doesn't matter what they do because they will still get to heaven. Or at least, that's what you said above.
 
In Between Man
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

So Clifford Olson, William Pickton, Jeffrey Dahmer, Polpot, Stalin can do (could do) whatever they wanted but as long as they thought Jesus was god they could ignore anything he said and still get into heaven? wow That's twisted.

But your forgetting something: When you accept the free gift of Jesus, and thank him for washing away your sins, your actually repenting and asking God for forgiveness. And since he loves you soooo much, and since Jesus already paid the price, he forgives you.

So yes, even though it sounds twisted, if Hitler repented by accepting Jesus on his death bed he would be barely, and I mean barely squeak into heaven. No rewards though. Of course we all know Hitler didn't. His was too proud and he didn't repent.

Quote:

So one could be the nastiest creature on the planet and never have done any good whatsoever and still get into heaven. Yup, that's definitely twisted.

If God was going to make a way for fallible humans to reach him it would have to be a door, not a path. A path is too hard to follow. He wants billions, not a handful.

Quote:

But as long as Catholics or whatever think Jesus is god, it doesn't matter what they do because they will still get to heaven. Or at least, that's what you said above.

Catholics go to heaven as long as they don't deny the SUFFICIENCY of Christ's death.
 
AnnaG
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz View Post

But your forgetting something: When you accept the free gift of Jesus, and thank him for washing away your sins, your actually repenting and asking God for forgiveness. And since he loves you soooo much, and since Jesus already paid the price, he forgives you.

So yes, even though it sounds twisted, if Hitler repented by accepting Jesus on his death bed he would be barely, and I mean barely squeak into heaven. No rewards though. Of course we all know Hitler didn't. His was too proud and he didn't repent.

So if I accepted this creature and thanked it for forgiving me right from day one, as long as I kept up the acceptance and thankfulness I could pillage, rape, plunder, main, kill, etc. and I'd be ok. That sounds more than twisted actually. That sounds downright psychotic to the max.



Quote:

If God was going to make a way for fallible humans to reach him it would have to be a door, not a path. A path is too hard to follow. He wants billions, not a handful.

Well the critter has a long way to go I think. Fortunately for Hindus, Muslims, etc. they have their own "heavens" and different rules and regs.



Quote:

Catholics go to heaven as long as they don't deny the SUFFICIENCY of Christ's death.

Well, that's good then, I guess.
 
In Between Man
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

So if I accepted this creature and thanked it for forgiving me right from day one, as long as I kept up the acceptance and thankfulness I could pillage, rape, plunder, main, kill, etc. and I'd be ok. That sounds more than twisted actually. That sounds downright psychotic to the max.

Thought you had me didn't you? If you accepted Christ then his spirit literally lives inside of you and you will be much more equipped to fight off the temptation to pillage, raper, plunder maim, kill, etc. Christ's thoughts are in you and more than likely you're not going to act this way. But even if you did you run a serious risk. Because your not allowing God to protect your own self from being pillaged, raped, plundered, maimed or killed etc. Which you will CERTAINLY bring upon yourself.

Quote:

Well the critter has a long way to go I think. Fortunately for Hindus, Muslims, etc. they have their own "heavens" and different rules and regs.

Yes, they have their own heavens which don't exist because their false human inventions.

Allow all humans follow the moral code within, the hindus and muslims different rules and regs regarding various issues are also false if it contradicts what God actually says.

Quote:

Well, that's good then, I guess.

Yes it is good. I personally cannot wait till the day Papa makes it better and sets it back to perfection again. And I get to walk in the garden with Jesus and star gaze from the farthest reaches of the universe!!!
Last edited by In Between Man; Sep 4th, 2009 at 12:36 AM..Reason: ads
 
AnnaG
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz View Post

Thought you had me didn't you? If you accepted Christ then his spirit literally lives inside of you and you will be much more equipped to fight off the temptation to pillage, raper, plunder maim, kill, etc. Christ's thoughts are in you and more than likely you're not going to act this way. But even if you did you run a serious risk. Because your not allowing God to protect your own self from being pillaged, raped, plundered, maimed or killed etc. Which you will CERTAINLY bring upon yourself.

I thought nothing of the kind.
So much for free will. I don't want anyone else's spirit inside me. I want my own. That's my will.
I am sure theree have been people that have been Christian and still committed extremely vile acts. So much for this all powerful spirit.

Quote:

Yes, they have their own heavens which don't exist because their false human inventions.

Who says? I bet Islam says Christianity is a false religion, too. Most of them think the rest are spurious.

Quote:

Allow all humans follow the moral code within, the hindus and muslims different rules and regs regarding various issues are also false if it contradicts what God actually says.

Who says there is only one god? This book that this god supposedly had written? That's diving deeply into the circular reasoning again. I am the only god because it says so in the book that I had written.

Quote:

Yes it is good. I personally cannot wait till the day Papa makes it better and sets it back to perfection again. And I get to walk in the garden with Jesus and star gaze from the farthest reaches of the universe!!!

 
talloola
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

well put talloola.

So, would you expect that people have to take from religion what you would take from religion if you were to believe and decide to belong to one?

I did belong to one many years ago, as a child, guess that's a little different, everything was about obedience, and being good, and I was very
obedient and good.
I can't even begin to imagine how I would be if I was again a practicing catholic.
That means I would be a sincere believer, so I would be very serious about all
the facets of the faith I suppose, oh I don't know, the fact that I don't believe
in any of it, makes that impossible to visualize. I still would be good, I just
like to be good, makes me happy, so that part fits. lol
I love churches, but only because of the architecture, the old beautiful churches,
and I do feel good thinking about how secure I felt as a child kneeling in the
pews saying my prayers, and believing that 'god' was looking after me, but I
feared him, and was worried that he would know everything I did that wasn't
in the rules, if I said 'damn' on Monday, I couldn't wait till Sunday to go to
confession, to clean the slate again.
And, for sure, being in a church definitely brings back very clear memories,
as my first four years of catholic school, caused me to be very involved in my
religion, both in school and in church, so the inside of a church churns up
all of that, as clear as if it was yesterday, and I can see myself being so good
and obedient with that bit of fear that goes along with it.
That person was someone else, seems like an old friend, I grew out of that
person, my brain would not allow me to remain there, I became much more
aware of what was around me, and bloomed into a full blown human being,
with all the strengths and powers we have, don't need myths and angels and
such to guide me any more, from the age of 12
I expect people to do what they believe, and what makes them feel whole.
That's what I am doing, and if I tried to believe in a god, it would be fake
anyway, I would just be playing a game to get on the good side of the god,
and I am not a fake person, so wouldn't work.
I think I feel most 'concern' for the ones who don't know where to go, can't
figure out what's going on, is there, or isn't there a god, that would be a
very restless place to be, I'm glad I'm not there.
Sorry to be so long winded, but you really started me thinking on this one.
 
AnnaG
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

I did belong to one many years ago, as a child, guess that's a little different, everything was about obedience, and being good, and I was very
obedient and good.
I can't even begin to imagine how I would be if I was again a practicing catholic.
That means I would be a sincere believer, so I would be very serious about all
the facets of the faith I suppose, oh I don't know, the fact that I don't believe
in any of it, makes that impossible to visualize. I still would be good, I just
like to be good, makes me happy, so that part fits. lol
I love churches, but only because of the architecture, the old beautiful churches,
and I do feel good thinking about how secure I felt as a child kneeling in the
pews saying my prayers, and believing that 'god' was looking after me, but I
feared him, and was worried that he would know everything I did that wasn't
in the rules, if I said 'damn' on Monday, I couldn't wait till Sunday to go to
confession, to clean the slate again.
And, for sure, being in a church definitely brings back very clear memories,
as my first four years of catholic school, caused me to be very involved in my
religion, both in school and in church, so the inside of a church churns up
all of that, as clear as if it was yesterday, and I can see myself being so good
and obedient with that bit of fear that goes along with it.
That person was someone else, seems like an old friend, I grew out of that
person, my brain would not allow me to remain there, I became much more
aware of what was around me, and bloomed into a full blown human being,
with all the strengths and powers we have, don't need myths and angels and
such to guide me any more, from the age of 12
I expect people to do what they believe, and what makes them feel whole.
That's what I am doing, and if I tried to believe in a god, it would be fake
anyway, I would just be playing a game to get on the good side of the god,
and I am not a fake person, so wouldn't work.
I think I feel most 'concern' for the ones who don't know where to go, can't
figure out what's going on, is there, or isn't there a god, that would be a
very restless place to be, I'm glad I'm not there.
Sorry to be so long winded, but you really started me thinking on this one.

I love the way you put that.
 
karrie
#23
So, your answer is that, no, you wouldn't expect people to practise religion according to your views? I think?
 
Dexter Sinister
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Suicide is a sin, remember? lol

That's a later accretion to the canon. Scripture doesn't say so, in fact it reports approvingly on Samson's suicide in pulling a building down around himself to take out a bunch of Philistines.
 
lone wolf
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

That's a later accretion to the canon. Scripture doesn't say so, in fact it reports approvingly on Samson's suicide in pulling a building down around himself to take out a bunch of Philistines.

Aha! Allah be praised! We have evidence that suicide bombers are sanctioned!

I could find evidence to suggest I don't have to check the air in my tires if I chose to interpret the Bible as such....

Spirits don't need to be ruled....
 
VanIsle
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

So, your answer is that, no, you wouldn't expect people to practise religion according to your views? I think?

I cannot understand why anyone would think another person should practice religion according to their views. My own son and his wife have bible study in their home once a week (or they go to the home of someone in their study group)and while I am a christian, what I see them doing is studying their own interpretation of the bible and to my way of thinking, they are not understanding it or they are understanding it the way someone in the group wants them to understand it. I say nothing because it's their belief - not mine.
 
VanIsle
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Suicide is a sin, remember? lol

The most weird thing about commiting suicide is that it's actually against the law in Canada!!! Wonder who they will charge?
 
talloola
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

So, your answer is that, no, you wouldn't expect people to practise religion according to your views? I think?

Don't 'expect' anything from people, what they do is their choice. I said in my
above post, that I can't really put myself in the position of being a believer, so
therefore I cannot begin to think about what others, who believe in god, should
or should not do, not my call anyway.
I also stated in my 'story' above that I expect people to do what makes them feel
whole.
 
AnnaG
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

That's a later accretion to the canon. Scripture doesn't say so, in fact it reports approvingly on Samson's suicide in pulling a building down around himself to take out a bunch of Philistines.

lol Ok, how about this then: "Thou shalt not kill"?
 
AnnaG
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by VanIsle View Post

The most weird thing about commiting suicide is that it's actually against the law in Canada!!! Wonder who they will charge?

Never underestimate the contrivances of politicians and lawyers. lol
 

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