All of a Sudden, There Aren’t Enough Electric Cars


Locutus
+1
#1
to Keep Up with Demand



And then you find out why.






Boo hoo boo hoo boo hoo...."As the LA Times put it, “there is little financial incentive to increase production” on the Fit EV because Honda loses money on each of the cars it builds"...sniffle.


All of a Sudden, There Aren’t Enough Electric Cars to Keep Up with Demand | TIME.com


Honda apologizes for Fit EV shortage - latimes.com
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

to Keep Up with Demand



And then you find out why.






Boo hoo boo hoo boo hoo...."As the LA Times put it, “there is little financial incentive to increase production” on the Fit EV because Honda loses money on each of the cars it builds"...sniffle.


All of a Sudden, There Aren’t Enough Electric Cars to Keep Up with Demand | TIME.com


Honda apologizes for Fit EV shortage - latimes.com

Oh don't worry- once LIE-berals run us into bankruptcy with their idiot spending and cannot afford to bribe industry to build more electric cars then the supply problem will sort itself out! NO govt subsidies means no customers either!

One has only to think of the electric scooter biz that has faded away now that people have seen- in real world conditions just what sort of speed, range and battery service life they can expect! AS for larger vehicles- TTC already has sour experience with battery powered buses!

The production problem will also be alleviated once a few lithium battery powered cars get into crashes and burst into flames which current fire fighting technology cannot put out! Bad enough your cell phone may burst into flames if you over charge it or bump it- how much worse will it be when its your car flaming- with you stuck in it?

And govt enthusiasm for lithium powered vehicles will sour as the toxic residue of lithium production begins to bite!
 
taxslave
#3
Lithium is produced in far away places where the feel good crowd doesn't have to see what is happening.
 
petros
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Lithium is produced in far away places where the feel good crowd doesn't have to see what is happening.

Not for long. SK and AB are sitting on the biggest deposits in the world.

But graphene batteries made from coal are replacing lithium vehicle batteries in the very near future.
 
taxslave
#5
As soon as mining starts all the US$ paid environmentalists will be there protesting mining because it might interrupt the lunar cycle or some such.
 
spilledthebeer
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Not for long. SK and AB are sitting on the biggest deposits in the world.

But graphene batteries made from coal are replacing lithium vehicle batteries in the very near future.

So graphene batteries will render lithium batteries obsolete before Tesla even finishes ironing out the bugs in its model 3 lithium powered car- the one being recalled in large numbers for safety upgrades?

And LIE-berals want to dump BILLIONS of our dollars into this not yet ready for public consumption industry? For our benefit? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Apparently some people are not aware of how toxic lithium is- for one thing most of the current supply of the raw ore is produced in China- where govt is already upset over lithium pollution and is working to minimize more of it- with mounting costs.

The raw material is transported to Nevada where Pamnasonic processes it into car batteries for Tesla- with pollution problems growing there as well!


Here is a report detailing the reality that electric cars will not be either safer nor more environmentally friendly than gas powered cars! The ugly reality is that LIE-berals are deliberately ignoring any and all simple solutions to global warming! LIE-beral policy is so muddled that although they know they could reduce gridlock and air pollution in Toronto by building more subways- their grossly selfish priorities are focused on spending billions to BUY votes from illegals so LIE-berals can cling to power at any price!

Yeah- LIE-berals see nothing wrong with borrowing billions to pay for future terrorists and welfare “clients” to settle in Canada and yet there is not a penny for new transit to save the environment!

Here is the report that LIE-berals do not want you to read:

COVER-UP Charged in NHTSA investigation of Tesla Motors

Batteries used in Tesla Motors cars are rather unusual: they are called lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries. Their mode of action is different from classical batteries of petrol or diesel engines. Components of Lithium-ion batteries can present a chemical hazard. In a few words: how does a Li-ion battery work? Elon Musk and his partners at Goldman Sachs and the Silicon Valley billionaires dig up the lithium ion from mines in Asia.

A Lithium-ion battery works with the following reaction: a chemically reversible lithium ion exchange between two electrodes. A number of toxic chemicals go into making the battery. When the battery gets hot or wet, it releases even more toxic chemicals.

The positive electrode is usually made of a lithiated transition metal oxide (cobalt dioxide, manganese dioxide…); the negative electrode is usually made of graphite.[1] This reaction needs both electrodes to be immersed into a liquid electrolyte. Most of the time, the electrolyte is a solution of lithium hexafluorophosphate salts into a mixture of ethylene carbonate and propylene carbonate or tetrahydrofurane.

Leaking Li-ion battery = production of hydrofluoric acid

As the electrolyte is a liquid, it can leak from the inside of the battery and come into contact with air moisture or water.

Two chemical reactions can provoke the production of hydrofluoric acid:

Hydrolysis of PF6- ions of the electrolyte in the presence of water
Combustion of those PF6- ions.

Hydrolysis of PF6- ions occurs only in the presence of water in a medium which is not too acidic or basic (pH between 1 and 12) However, the kinetics of this hydrolysis are not favorable. The reaction is slow and the quantities of released hydrofluoric acid will not be very important.[2] When in contact with skin or eyes, hydrofluoric acid can provoke severe chemical injuries and is toxic.

Lithium-ion batteries and combustion: a real hazard

The Lithium-ion battery also presents a risk of degradation by a violent and dangerous combustion reaction in case of misuse. This combustion can occur spontaneously as soon as the batteries intern temperature reaches 65 °C (149 °F) and is very likely to occur above 75 °C (167 °F).[3]

In case of burning of the battery, hydrofluoric acid is produced and released by thermal decomposition of the PF6- ions of the electrolyte contained inside the battery.

A French INERIS report on electric cars batteries describes this risk. Moreover, the INERIS studies show that: “From a metrological point of view, measuring fluoride ions produced during a fire remains a delicate operation”

Concentration of released hydrofluoric acid is variable and depends on the quantity of electrolyte burnt in the combustion process and the combustion temperature.

Other toxic gases are also produced and released during the electrolyte combustion - carbon oxides from combustion of ethylene and propylene carbonates.

(Bad enough breathing fumes from a regular car fire but fumes from burning lithium will be especially poisonous!)

To prevent leaking or burning of the battery, very cautious manipulation of Li-ion batteries is recommended

What to do in case of Leaking Li-ion battery?

When a leak is observed from a Li-ion battery, the leaking liquid may contain hydrofluoric acid. Absorption of the liquid residue with an adapted absorbent is necessary. The use of a neutralizing absorbent for acidic chemicals such as neutralizing absorbent ACICAPTAL® or polyvalent neutralizing absorbent TRIVOREX® is recommended. Personal protective equipment is also recommended.

(Gee- if your gas tank leaks it does not automatically turn your garage into a toxic hot spot that requires special technology to handle and then to dispose of? You KNOW you ain’t putting weird crap soaked in acid out for the regular trash pickup!)

In the event of a cutaneous or ocular exposure to a liquid from a Li-ion Battery, an optimized decontamination is necessary. Exposure to hydrofluoric acid requires adapted decontamination and medical advice.

(Spill a little gas and it evaporates- spill chemicals from Lithium battery and head for the hospital- QUICK!)

Hexafluorine® solution is an emergency washing solution specially designed to answer to hydrofluoric hazard: discover Hexafluorine® solution
What to do in case of combustion of a Li-ion battery?

(Everybody has some in their medicine cabinet right?)

Li-ion batteries from electric or hybrid cars are usually isolated and protected so that they do not release hydrofluoric vapors in case of combustion.

During a car accident, if the battery ignites, contact with released vapors should be avoided as much as possible. Tesla Motors drivers have been killed and burned into unrecognizable lumps of melted plastic and alloy.

(Oh- so you crash your car and are laying there stunned and unable to move- or maybe the door is jammed shut- and you are likely to die from fumes leaking from your battery? Oh well- you made LIE-berals happy with your vehicle purchase!)
 
Hoid
#7
The demand is the important thing. As long as the demand continues to grow the supply will take care of itself.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#8
If they are losing money, they need to increase list price. This will balance with reduction in demand and no shortage. Basic economics.
 
Bar Sinister
#9
Not to worry. The other dozen or so electric car manufacturers seem more than willing to make up for any shortfall from Honda. Right now it is all about maintaining market share. Manufacturers who drop out now will be paying catch-up later.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Not to worry. The other dozen or so electric car manufacturers seem more than willing to make up for any shortfall from Honda. Right now it is all about maintaining market share. Manufacturers who drop out now will be paying catch-up later.

As long as they have other cars they can sell to give them some cash flow. Until it turns a profit, don't expect it to be anything more than a niche market.
 
Bar Sinister
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

As long as they have other cars they can sell to give them some cash flow. Until it turns a profit, don't expect it to be anything more than a niche market.

One of the interesting things about electric cars is that they don't require the huge outlay of cash to set up manufacturing facilities that internal combustion automobiles require. Currently there are factories that are turning out just a few cars a day. Of course, the large manufacturers such as GM, Ford, Toyota, etc have a big advantage as they have billions to spend on R&D so I expect them to dominate the electric car market. But there are lots of small local manufacturers out there due to the fact that electric cars require much less maintenance than conventional vehicles. These cars are not going to go away, not with giant companies like VW and GM announcing they are going to go all-electric in the future.

https://www.wired.com/story/general-...-cars-plan-gm/

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/vo...icles-by-2030/
 
Danbones
#12
Tesla started delivering those late Model 3s yet?

Or maybe you can get a vacuum cleaner mobile from them other model car folks...

Oh wait...they won't be on the road for a while either.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#13  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

One of the interesting things about electric cars is that they don't require the huge outlay of cash to set up manufacturing facilities that internal combustion automobiles require. Currently there are factories that are turning out just a few cars a day. Of course, the large manufacturers such as GM, Ford, Toyota, etc have a big advantage as they have billions to spend on R&D so I expect them to dominate the electric car market. But there are lots of small local manufacturers out there due to the fact that electric cars require much less maintenance than conventional vehicles. These cars are not going to go away, not with giant companies like VW and GM announcing they are going to go all-electric in the future.

https://www.wired.com/story/general-...-cars-plan-gm/

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/11/vo...icles-by-2030/

If they can't make money (going from quote in OP (from 2013)), they won't make them 100%. The car makers will make whatever they think they can sell for the most $. Given the huge subsidies given to electric, that is artificially increasing demand by lowering the price point.
 
taxslave
+2
#14
Still grossly overpriced. Chev Spark $17000 Bolt $44000 Same platform.
 
spilledthebeer
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Still grossly overpriced. Chev Spark $17000 Bolt $44000 Same platform.

Tesla got $1.4 billion US in grant money from Nevada govt- got a pile of investment money from starry eyed investors who got sold on Musk "vision"

-has had problems at every turn- worker strikes over levels of lithium pollution higher than expected in the plant

- troubles with local govt as the plume of toxic lithium dust drifts down wind to other communities in spite of Musk deliberately locating the plant in an isolated area with lots of wind and few people

- problems adhering to promised hiring levels as per the deal with Nevada

- problems with the contacters that are special sort of switches hooked to the batteries to handle and regulate electrical flow and which have been failing unexpectedly and leaving drivers stranded

- problems with the auto drive system that has killed a number of drivers

- problems with cost generally since an electric car costs basically twice as much as a gas car

- problems with govt as voters grow disgusted with govt manipulation of carc prices to force us to buy what we do not want

- problems with the charging systems needed to keep these cares going with Ontario-owe LIE-berals creating yet another scandal as they screw up their expensive contract to install chargers in public locations

- problems with the LIE-beral purchased charging systems that either do not work at all or which deliver less than the advertised charging rate problems with investors and bond rating services who are beginning to think that the Musk vision is mostly talk and will DIE just as soon as voters get angry over the vast waste of OUR money being used by selfish to create an artificial market for a product desired by only a self appointed elite and entitled few

-problems convincing the general public that an electric car is wirth the trouble and expense since we all know that safe disposal of batteries is a serious environmental handicap

-problems convincing the public that the charging problems, limited range- with the potential for even further reduced range in cold weather Canada, limited cargo capacity, poorly hidden pollution issues related to lithium production, potentially serious mechanical issues that will not be found till after the cars have been on the road for some years- like the issue with things like the contacters that can leave you stranded- and the recent recall of a pile of Tesla cars, issues related finding spare parts since |Tesla does NOT have a large selection of dealers to draw on for help in repairing their cars, issues with Tesla cars that have been crashed with body shops currently knowing little about how to handle those hugely toxic and dangerous batteries that carry enough voltage to injure or kill a careless worker, problems with the potential fire hazard that lithium exposed to air represents and we have all seen video of cell phones and lap tops bursting into flames if they are over charged- think broken LIE-beral chargers- or if they are bumped to hard and lithium is exposed to air like those Samsung phones

The ugly reality is we are in a savage fight to restore fiscal logic in Canada and the new govts coming to replace airhead LIE-berals will have no patience for elitist snobs and their electric toys that cannot survive in a free market without having the sort of fiscal backup that Soviet Commissars used to supply to client states- until the cost KILLED the Soviet Union!

Who killed the electric car? Stupid and impractical and quite greedy LIE-berals killed it!
 
captain morgan
+2
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Still grossly overpriced. Chev Spark $17000 Bolt $44000 Same platform.

The EVs mfgrs are licking their chops in the knowledge that they will be fleecing this flock of ecosheep in doubling or tripling the cost of the EV and take advantage of this low info demographic.

I laugh my nuts every time they pipe-up about it
 
Bar Sinister
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

If they can't make money (going from quote in OP (from 2013)), they won't make them 100%. The car makers will make whatever they think they can sell for the most $. Given the huge subsidies given to electric, that is artificially increasing demand by lowering the price point.

I'm really surprised that you don't understand the efficiencies associated with mass production. When Ford came out with his first cars more than a century ago only the wealthy could afford them. That very quickly changed. And for electric cars it has to change otherwise they will not replace internal cop0mbustion engines even if they are cheaper to run and maintain. So look for mass produced electric cars in less than a decade.

Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Tesla started delivering those late Model 3s yet?

Or maybe you can get a vacuum cleaner mobile from them other model car folks...

Oh wait...they won't be on the road for a while either.

You've got a Tesla fixation. The company is not even a major mover in electric car manufacture.

Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

Tesla got $1.4 billion US in grant money from Nevada govt- got a pile of investment money from starry eyed investors who got sold on Musk "vision"

-has had problems at every turn- worker strikes over levels of lithium pollution higher than expected in the plant

- troubles with local govt as the plume of toxic lithium dust drifts down wind to other communities in spite of Musk deliberately locating the plant in an isolated area with lots of wind and few people

- problems adhering to promised hiring levels as per the deal with Nevada

- problems with the contacters that are special sort of switches hooked to the batteries to handle and regulate electrical flow and which have been failing unexpectedly and leaving drivers stranded

- problems with the auto drive system that has killed a number of drivers

- problems with cost generally since an electric car costs basically twice as much as a gas car

- problems with govt as voters grow disgusted with govt manipulation of carc prices to force us to buy what we do not want

- problems with the charging systems needed to keep these cares going with Ontario-owe LIE-berals creating yet another scandal as they screw up their expensive contract to install chargers in public locations

- problems with the LIE-beral purchased charging systems that either do not work at all or which deliver less than the advertised charging rate problems with investors and bond rating services who are beginning to think that the Musk vision is mostly talk and will DIE just as soon as voters get angry over the vast waste of OUR money being used by selfish to create an artificial market for a product desired by only a self appointed elite and entitled few

-problems convincing the general public that an electric car is wirth the trouble and expense since we all know that safe disposal of batteries is a serious environmental handicap

-problems convincing the public that the charging problems, limited range- with the potential for even further reduced range in cold weather Canada, limited cargo capacity, poorly hidden pollution issues related to lithium production, potentially serious mechanical issues that will not be found till after the cars have been on the road for some years- like the issue with things like the contacters that can leave you stranded- and the recent recall of a pile of Tesla cars, issues related finding spare parts since |Tesla does NOT have a large selection of dealers to draw on for help in repairing their cars, issues with Tesla cars that have been crashed with body shops currently knowing little about how to handle those hugely toxic and dangerous batteries that carry enough voltage to injure or kill a careless worker, problems with the potential fire hazard that lithium exposed to air represents and we have all seen video of cell phones and lap tops bursting into flames if they are over charged- think broken LIE-beral chargers- or if they are bumped to hard and lithium is exposed to air like those Samsung phones

The ugly reality is we are in a savage fight to restore fiscal logic in Canada and the new govts coming to replace airhead LIE-berals will have no patience for elitist snobs and their electric toys that cannot survive in a free market without having the sort of fiscal backup that Soviet Commissars used to supply to client states- until the cost KILLED the Soviet Union!

Who killed the electric car? Stupid and impractical and quite greedy LIE-berals killed it!

Funny that we don't hear of any other manufacturers of electric vehicles having those problems, and there are a lot of them. And if you can name a major auto maker in the US who has never received a subsidy I'll concede that electric cars have no future. And your Soviet Union reference makes no sense, as usual.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I'm really surprised that you don't understand the efficiencies associated with mass production. When Ford came out with his first cars more than a century ago only the wealthy could afford them. That very quickly changed. And for electric cars it has to change otherwise they will not replace internal cop0mbustion engines even if they are cheaper to run and maintain. So look for mass produced electric cars in less than a decade.

I think we differ in our opinion of future demand or at least the time scale of the demand. I do not believe it will be as fast as you believe. Certainly the massive subsidies by the various governments due help to artificially increase the demand.
 
pgs
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I'm really surprised that you don't understand the efficiencies associated with mass production. When Ford came out with his first cars more than a century ago only the wealthy could afford them. That very quickly changed. And for electric cars it has to change otherwise they will not replace internal cop0mbustion engines even if they are cheaper to run and maintain. So look for mass produced electric cars in less than a decade.



You've got a Tesla fixation. The company is not even a major mover in electric car manufacture.



Funny that we don't hear of any other manufacturers of electric vehicles having those problems, and there are a lot of them. And if you can name a major auto maker in the US who has never received a subsidy I'll concede that electric cars have no future. And your Soviet Union reference makes no sense, as usual.

I am really surprised you don’t look around and see how many conventionally powered cars are on the roads .
 
spilledthebeer
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

I am really surprised you don’t look around and see how many conventionally powered cars are on the roads .

Why do LIE-berals support electric cars? Because of the size of their amygdala!

Here is an interesting little post that I saw a while back and it offers up some logical reasons for why LIE-berals are doing such a BAD JOB of running Ontari-owe and the country as well! Some Hog told us this:

Conservatives have larger fear centers in their brains.

Scientists at the University of London say that conservatives have an enlarged "fear" area in their brains, and smaller areas associated with courage and optimism. The London Telegraph reports:

Scientists have found that people with conservative views have brains with larger amygdalas, almond shaped areas in the centre of the brain often associated with anxiety and emotions.

On the other hand, they have a smaller anterior cingulate, an area at the front of the brain associated with courage and looking on the bright side of life.

The researches say there is a direct correlation between the sizes of those areas and one's political views.
http://www.salon.com/2010/12/29/conservative_brains/

So your Hog post is telling us that Conservatives have been right all along and that McWynnty and her Lie-beral pals are intellectually unfit to run our province.
You are telling us is that McWynnty and her Lie-beral pals are not evolved enough to recognize the terrible financial damage that her reckless spending is having on the health and welfare of Ontari-owe! You are also telling us that McWynnty and company are not evolved enough intellectually to be able to make long term plans in a complex economic modern world because they cannot extrapolate and visualize far enough into the future to see the horrible results of their foolish short sighted plans. You are telling us that the Lie-berals will continue to skip along from one mess to another (E-health, Ornge, the gas plants, wind power mess) while singing `don’t worry, be happy` simply because they lack the ability to see any threat till it falls kicking and squealing into their laps. You are telling us that the best thing that could happen to Ontari-owe is that ALL Lie-berals get dumped in the next election and that sensible, more highly evolved and sophisticated Conservatives (with their greater capacity to identify and deal with threats and make long term plans) should be put in charge for the benefit of all Ontari-owe!!
Well, we knew it all along, we just needed you short sighted types to get on board.
 
captain morgan
#21
I hate it when there aren't enough electric cars.

I can't help but think of the children
 
Bar Sinister
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

I think we differ in our opinion of future demand or at least the time scale of the demand. I do not believe it will be as fast as you believe. Certainly the massive subsidies by the various governments due help to artificially increase the demand.

Actually I am surprised that demand is already so high. But technological change seems to be moving much faster that it did last century. Just think of a few examples. 20 years ago smartphones did not exist - now they are an everyday communication device.

Here are a few more examples.
10 Technologies That Didn't Exist 10 Years Ago


https://www.knomobags.com/usa/blog/1...t-10-years-ago

I'm guessing that electric cars are coming a lot faster than most people think.

Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

I am really surprised you don’t look around and see how many conventionally powered cars are on the roads .


Yes - I suppose they will become items of nostalgia in a few decades, sort of like the Model T or horse-drawn buggy.
 
Hoid
-1
#23
The estimates for e vehicle takeover are constantly being revised downward.

An article i just posted says Toyota is planning half alternative by 2030 - so that probably means all alternative by 2030.

Its a difficult trick to keep selling gas vehicles to losers while phasing them out at the same time.
 
spilledthebeer
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I hate it when there aren't enough electric cars.

I can't help but think of the children

YES....pity the poor children who must pay for all the LIE-beral madness and insane GREED!
 
Cannuck
#25
Much better. People will actually read it. I won't but some will
 
Highball
#26
This what the auto manufacturers want you to believe. So does the EPA of your nation. BUT the fact remains the 3 largest auto builder nation still roll more than 75% of fossil fuel vehicles out of their assembly plants daily.
 
captain morgan
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

YES....pity the poor children who must pay for all the LIE-beral madness and insane GREED!

If only there were more EVs available to buy at $60,000+.

this would solve everything
 
spilledthebeer
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Highball View Post

This what the auto manufacturers want you to believe. So does the EPA of your nation. BUT the fact remains the 3 largest auto builder nation still roll more than 75% of fossil fuel vehicles out of their assembly plants daily.


McLuhan told us "the medium is the message and the LIE-beral message is GRAVY FOR THEIR PALS!!

Here is an article illustrating the scale and scope of ego held by Our idiot Boy Justin. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Trudeau’s Indigenous show and tell. Foolish Rolling Stone interview provokes fury among Canada’s First Nations.

By Gordon Chong. First posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 07:03 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, August 05, 2017 07:05 PM EDT

Finally, the true colours of our prime minister have emerged.

Our Prime Minister is a whirling dervish — appearing at the Calgary Stampede and then in B.C. to praise our firefighters with staged “selfies” that massage his ego and give the impression he really cares about us — especially Indigenous Aboriginals!

After renaming the Langevin Block to accommodate Aboriginal protesters on Parliament Hill and setting up an ineffective Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, his ego got the better of him in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine.

Does Justin Trudeau have any foundational principles?

(YES! He has one principle- that HE IS ENTITLED!)

The Sun’s Mark Bonokoski, writing about Trudeau’s highly publicized charity boxing match with Indigenous Senator Patrick Brazeau, nailed our PM’s hubris: “It was all calculated for the best result for him, and no one else.”

Trudeau, on the same subject, told Rolling Stone: “It wasn’t random. I wanted someone who would be a good foil, and we stumbled upon the scrappy tough-guy senator from an Indigenous community. He fit the bill, and it was a very nice counterpoint. I saw it as the right kind of narrative, the right story to tell.”

Bonokoski was right, too, that this staged fight “was much more than just a liberal versus a conservative, but a French colonialist versus a country’s conquered.”

Trudeau chose Brazeau — whom we now know was dealing with a number of personal problems at the time and was likely out of shape — who naively accepted a closely refereed boxing match.

Whether his cavalier remarks will hurt Trudeau remains speculation for now, but the criticism is damning from many Aboriginal leaders.

Pam Palmater, an associate professor and chair in Indigenous governance at Ryerson University, told the Globe and Mail, “To read this super arrogant, super-racist comment was really disgusting.”

Cindy Blackstock, a professional social worker at McGill and Executive Director of First Nations Child and Family Caring, criticized Trudeau’s “narrative about colonialization ‘where Indigenous Peoples are the savages and the non-Indigenous people are civilized.’”

Unfortunately, this episode distracts attention from serious issues, but confirms Trudeau’s pre-programmed, drama-like approach to politics.

Meanwhile, Canada’s relationship with its First Nations is in serious trouble.

“Billions of dollars are squandered each year while the problems of spousal and sexual assault, child abuse and neglect, suicide, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome [FAS] and addictions fester,” Professor Frances Widdowson, a Metis and faculty member at Mount Royal College in Alberta, wrote in her 2008 book, Disrobing the Aboriginal Industry.

Despite Trudeau’s promise to rebuild Canada’s relationship with its Indigenous people, there are hurdles to meaningful compromise on both sides — ranging from the emotional baggage and mistrust caused by the residential school scandal, to the cultural way of thinking among First Nations.

Kinship loyalty is one of the defining characteristics of Aboriginal culture, Widdowson wrote.

(Kinship loyalty? Is that why they so often beat on each other? As the song says: “we hurt the ones we love”?)

People are fearful of going to the police and xenophobia toward “whites” creates an entrenched resistance to any outside interference.

(What absolute nonsense! The only people scared of cops are those with outstanding warrants!)

Regardless of legitimate past or current grievances, this helps neither First Nations nor Canada move forward — presumably a desirable path, given the dire situation on many reserves and the billions of tax dollars wasted annually trying to fix things that never bring about desperately needed improvements.

Enough is enough.

Yes- if LIE-berals really want to help natives- instead of simply using them as a supply of easily BOUGHT votes, then LIE-berals should IMMEDIATELY admit that the Conservative mandated package of new laws imposed on reserves- that LIE-berals killed off- was actually a good idea that would limit corruption on reserves and thus IMPROVE quality of life for natives! Don’t hold your breath while waiting for that to happen! LIE-berals have no shame and no sense!)

We have approximately 600 Aboriginal tribes that want to remain separate and apart, and yet why would anyone self-segregate in these circumstances?

Particularly when we have an entire industry dedicated to the “The Great Game”, as Widdowson and her husband, Albert Howard, described it, that enriches the army of consultants and lawyers who feed on the “Aboriginal industry”.

Today, it’s a mutually beneficial game for the federal government and the politically savvy Aboriginal Rights Movement, but not necessarily for average Aboriginals.

For now, the two sides fight it out in court, contesting land claims and the meaning of self government.

But long term, we need a political, not a legal solution, that truly reconciles, as Trudeau promised, Canada’s relationship with its First Nations, given that progress will inevitably displace some.

Canada can only realize its potential with a citizenry that is unified and unconditionally Canadian, and with a PM who is more than a mascot and a prop for photo ops!
 
Bar Sinister
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by spilledthebeer View Post

McLuhan told us "the medium is the message and the LIE-beral message is GRAVY FOR THEIR PALS!!

Here is an article illustrating the scale and scope of ego held by Our idiot Boy Justin. With some comments of my own in brackets):

Trudeau’s Indigenous show and tell. Foolish Rolling Stone interview provokes fury among Canada’s First Nations.

By Gordon Chong. First posted: Saturday, August 05, 2017 07:03 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, August 05, 2017 07:05 PM EDT

Finally, the true colours of our prime minister have emerged.

Our Prime Minister is a whirling dervish — appearing at the Calgary Stampede and then in B.C. to praise our firefighters with staged “selfies” that massage his ego and give the impression he really cares about us — especially Indigenous Aboriginals!

After renaming the Langevin Block to accommodate Aboriginal protesters on Parliament Hill and setting up an ineffective Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, his ego got the better of him in an interview with Rolling Stone magazine.

Does Justin Trudeau have any foundational principles?

(YES! He has one principle- that HE IS ENTITLED!)

The Sun’s Mark Bonokoski, writing about Trudeau’s highly publicized charity boxing match with Indigenous Senator Patrick Brazeau, nailed our PM’s hubris: “It was all calculated for the best result for him, and no one else.”

Trudeau, on the same subject, told Rolling Stone: “It wasn’t random. I wanted someone who would be a good foil, and we stumbled upon the scrappy tough-guy senator from an Indigenous community. He fit the bill, and it was a very nice counterpoint. I saw it as the right kind of narrative, the right story to tell.”

Bonokoski was right, too, that this staged fight “was much more than just a liberal versus a conservative, but a French colonialist versus a country’s conquered.”

Trudeau chose Brazeau — whom we now know was dealing with a number of personal problems at the time and was likely out of shape — who naively accepted a closely refereed boxing match.

Whether his cavalier remarks will hurt Trudeau remains speculation for now, but the criticism is damning from many Aboriginal leaders.

Pam Palmater, an associate professor and chair in Indigenous governance at Ryerson University, told the Globe and Mail, “To read this super arrogant, super-racist comment was really disgusting.”

Cindy Blackstock, a professional social worker at McGill and Executive Director of First Nations Child and Family Caring, criticized Trudeau’s “narrative about colonialization ‘where Indigenous Peoples are the savages and the non-Indigenous people are civilized.’”

Unfortunately, this episode distracts attention from serious issues, but confirms Trudeau’s pre-programmed, drama-like approach to politics.

Meanwhile, Canada’s relationship with its First Nations is in serious trouble.

“Billions of dollars are squandered each year while the problems of spousal and sexual assault, child abuse and neglect, suicide, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome [FAS] and addictions fester,” Professor Frances Widdowson, a Metis and faculty member at Mount Royal College in Alberta, wrote in her 2008 book, Disrobing the Aboriginal Industry.

Despite Trudeau’s promise to rebuild Canada’s relationship with its Indigenous people, there are hurdles to meaningful compromise on both sides — ranging from the emotional baggage and mistrust caused by the residential school scandal, to the cultural way of thinking among First Nations.

Kinship loyalty is one of the defining characteristics of Aboriginal culture, Widdowson wrote.

(Kinship loyalty? Is that why they so often beat on each other? As the song says: “we hurt the ones we love”?)

People are fearful of going to the police and xenophobia toward “whites” creates an entrenched resistance to any outside interference.

(What absolute nonsense! The only people scared of cops are those with outstanding warrants!)

Regardless of legitimate past or current grievances, this helps neither First Nations nor Canada move forward — presumably a desirable path, given the dire situation on many reserves and the billions of tax dollars wasted annually trying to fix things that never bring about desperately needed improvements.

Enough is enough.

Yes- if LIE-berals really want to help natives- instead of simply using them as a supply of easily BOUGHT votes, then LIE-berals should IMMEDIATELY admit that the Conservative mandated package of new laws imposed on reserves- that LIE-berals killed off- was actually a good idea that would limit corruption on reserves and thus IMPROVE quality of life for natives! Don’t hold your breath while waiting for that to happen! LIE-berals have no shame and no sense!)

We have approximately 600 Aboriginal tribes that want to remain separate and apart, and yet why would anyone self-segregate in these circumstances?

Particularly when we have an entire industry dedicated to the “The Great Game”, as Widdowson and her husband, Albert Howard, described it, that enriches the army of consultants and lawyers who feed on the “Aboriginal industry”.

Today, it’s a mutually beneficial game for the federal government and the politically savvy Aboriginal Rights Movement, but not necessarily for average Aboriginals.

For now, the two sides fight it out in court, contesting land claims and the meaning of self government.

But long term, we need a political, not a legal solution, that truly reconciles, as Trudeau promised, Canada’s relationship with its First Nations, given that progress will inevitably displace some.

Canada can only realize its potential with a citizenry that is unified and unconditionally Canadian, and with a PM who is more than a mascot and a prop for photo ops!

Another mind-numbingly long and irrelevant post. You might want to try and stay on topic.
 
spilledthebeer
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Another mind-numbingly long and irrelevant post. You might want to try and stay on topic.

Oh poor Bar Sinister- he is so poor a debater he follows LIE-beral rules- which defines a person as wrong or off topic if the points being made dispute LIE-beral othodoxy! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

WE have already established that electric toys being made by Tesla and other moudly green companies exist ONLY because LIE-berals are wasting huge amounts of our tax money to bribe the builders! We have also established that LIE-berals are bribing select groups such as natives so LIE-berals can cling to power at any price!

Here is an article exposing the failure of LIE-beral policy- and rthe sordid relationship between Wynne-bag LIE-berals and Tesla! With some comments of my own in brackets.):

Liberals take from the poor, give to the rich!

Steve Clark, Special to The Toronto Sun. First posted: Thursday, February 23, 2017 06:38 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, February 23, 2017 06:46 PM EST

Steve Clark is the Deputy Leader of the Ontario PCs.

The famous outlaw Robin Hood and his Merry Men achieved fame for robbing from the rich to give to the poor. Today we find an Ontario Liberal staffer taking a job at Tesla that shows the Wynne Liberals as Robin Hoods in reverse: They take from the poor to give to the rich.

Wynne and her cronies have done a lot to wreak havoc on Ontario - what they’ve done to the hydro system is case in point. We’ve long been outraged by their scheme to pay wealthy Ontarians to buy Teslas - a fancy electric car that is the status of symbol of choice for Silicon Valley billionaires. The price tag for one starts at $75,200 – more than the average Ontario families earns in a year.

And let me be clear, this subsidy only applies to one car manufacturer – Tesla.

Once upon a time, Kathleen Wynne said that people who can afford this type of car probably don’t need more help from the government. We agree. So why then did her government flip-flop and reinstate the Tesla-buyer’s subsidy?

(Admittedly the subsidy has been re-introduced at a lower rate but still it’s a subsidy of wealthy egotists too often just playing at being environmentalists! Are you really ENTITLED to burn thousands of litres of jet fuel flying from Toronto to Bahamas for a nice long weekend of golf- just so long as you drive your clean green govt subsidized Tesla to the airport? We KNOW wealthy people are Not using the costly Union to Pearson Up rail link!)

It’s a question I asked the premier in Question Period. She stonewalled. It’s a question I’d like to ask Environment Minister Glen Murray’s former chief of staff. He left the top job in the minister`s office to take a government relations job with Tesla the same month the tax break was announced.

(My own personal opinion- supported by various media reports- is that Wynne-bag is DESPERATE to make us like electric cars and will break the bank if she must to persuade us to accept her selfish and distorted vision of the future-the one were LIE-berals remain in power and NOBODY asks how Ontari-owe benefits from LIE-beral energy fiascoes- the ones that enable LIE-beral PALS to profit nicely!)

It’s bad enough that Wynne is having Ontario taxpayers give money so people can buy Teslas; but what’s truly insulting is the revolving door of lobbyists, politicians and their staff that is the Ontario Liberal government.

(And now that Tesla has put its Model 3 sedan into production we can see just how truly NOT READY electric cars are for mass use! The Tesla model 3 is offered at $35,000 U.S. while a Nissan Qashqai is offered at $20,00 Cdn- or about HALF the cost of the Tesla- with the Nissan offering up longer range, greater cargo capacity and easier refueling procedure! Neither LIE-berals nor tax payers have the money needed to persuade the public to get into an electric car- and without major govt bribery Tesla Model 3 will NOT sell in Canada!)

“You scratch my back, I scratch yours” seems to be how Wynne and her Liberals want to run Ontario. We saw it with the outrageous green energy deals given to huge multinational companies to build wind turbines – companies that donated $1.3 million to the Ontario Liberals. And we saw it with cash for access fundraisers, where government ministers traded access with companies they regulate for massive donations.

Meanwhile, every day, taxpaying Ontarians are suffering. Most of the people I know couldn’t afford to spend $75,200 on a car.

(And should we ask if that price is quoted in UNITED STATES DOLLARS-and includes all sales tax and delivery etc for the high end Tesla roadster- so beloved of ego driven billionaires? Probably we SHOULD ask for the full bottom line!)

Wynne’s Tesla-buyer’s subsidy benefits a narrow sliver of Ontarians who are already well-off. And the self-interest involved with senior political staff being hired by Tesla shows that her government`s ethics still haven’t hit bottom.

There is no proof yet that any laws or rules were broken, but a full investigation is needed. When Wynne gives special subsidies to companies who then go on to hire her top advisors, leaving Ontarians paying more for less and wondering who is going to stand up for them, something is seriously wrong.

(IT seems as if the prime LIE-beral focus is on expanding their shameless electrical slush fund by forcing us to buy electric vehicles that will need that LIE-beral power supply- thus ensuring a steady supply of gravy to green energy LIE-beral pals!)

We will stand up for Ontario families against this tax and spend Liberal Government that only wants to help their wealthy friends and donors and get re-elected.

Steve Clark is the Deputy Leader of the Ontario PCs

(The REALLY SCARY part of all this LIE-beral spending madness is the HUGE array of IOU`S they have given to civil service union Hogs. LIE-berals owe about 55 billion dollars Cdn to high school teachers alone-with EIGHTEEN MORE PROVINCIAL UNIONS waiting for their turn at the trough- and this does NOT include the Hogs at federal and municipal level nor at the many crown corporations such as E-health, ORNGE, Hydro One or the colleges, universities and hospitals! If LIE-berals win the next election in 2018 we can expect a full scale financial blood bath as LIE-berals seek to honour their IMMENSE promises to the Hogs!)
 

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