Who won the September Presidential Debate?


In Between Man
Free Thinker
#1
I don't like either candidate or party, but I do like the point McCain made about diplomacy talks with countries like Iran. When a government threatens to "wipe" another country "off the face of the Earth", you can't discuss terms with no preconditions at all. Otherwise you are simply legitimatizing their absurd rhetoric.

Otherwise Obama definitely made more quality points. Therefore winning the debate in my eyes.

Interesting to see the next one.....ooooh! and the Vice Presidential debate!
 
Kreskin
#2
My hat is off to both of them. They are two very impressive politicians.
 
Walter
#3
Nader.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
+1
#4  Top Rated Post
Who won the September Presidential Debate?

The bankers always win.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayz View Post

I don't like either candidate or party, but I do like the point McCain made about diplomacy talks with countries like Iran. When a government threatens to "wipe" another country "off the face of the Earth", you can't discuss terms with no preconditions at all. Otherwise you are simply legitimatizing their absurd rhetoric.

Otherwise Obama definitely made more quality points. Therefore winning the debate in my eyes.

Interesting to see the next one.....ooooh! and the Vice Presidential debate!

You liked that point McCain scored did you? The statement was never made by Amidinejad. So you're actually enamoured of a complete falsehood, a fantasy, a nothing.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#6
The statement attributed to Ahmadinejad actually was an incorrect English interpretation of what he said in Farsi.

The source of the misquote which is always used out of context was actually the Iranian propaganda ministry itself. Putting the correct interpretation in context, Ahmadinejad referred to the fall of the Shah of Iran, the USSR and Saddam Hussein. Then he states:

Quote:

he who accepts the existence of this regime [i.e. Israel] in fact signs the defeat of the Islamic world. In his battle against the World of Arrogance, our dear Imam [Khomeini] set the regime occupying Qods [Jerusalem] as the target of his fight. I do not doubt that the new wave which has begun in our dear Palestine and which today we are also witnessing in the Islamic world is a wave of morality which has spread all over the Islamic world. Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world - and this is attainable."

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12790.htm

Given the context, its clear he was talking about the downfall of the Zionist regime.

Back on subject, the debate was a tie. But McCain as the trailing candidate had to win and he didn't. As a result, Obama maintains momentum going forward.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#7
Damn you guys are good at denial......what is the differene between being " wiped off the map" and "this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world"?????????
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Damn you guys are good at denial......what is the differene between being " wiped off the map" and "this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world"?????????

I like both but there is a big difference the real speech spoke of the wages of sin while the fake words were the sin. The disgrace is a matter of evidence, a fact in other words.
 
YoungJoonKim
#9
Israel is an independent state supported by U.S. in terms of cash, arms, and diplomats.
And if you see the events that's unfolding in Israel, I am very sadden.

Haven't Jews taught a lesson from their own experience of holocaust?
Why is it that they allow ignorance and cultural differences get in the way against Palestinians?
Its sad. Oh well.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by YoungJoonKim View Post

Israel is an independent state supported by U.S. in terms of cash, arms, and diplomats.
And if you see the events that's unfolding in Israel, I am very sadden.

Haven't Jews taught a lesson from their own experience of holocaust?
Why is it that they allow ignorance and cultural differences get in the way against Palestinians?
Its sad. Oh well.

Sad indeed. But this is the result of PTSD ( pre-traumatic stress disorder) engendered through cultural and religious exclusivism of long practise.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Damn you guys are good at denial......what is the differene between being " wiped off the map" and "this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world"?????????

Context Colpy.

Was Iran wiped off the map or changed politically by the Iranian revolution?
Was the USSR wiped off the map or changed politically by the fall of the Iron Curtain?
Was Iraq wiped off the map or cahnged politically by the illegal US invasion?

Iran's position as stated by Ahmadinejad is political change in Israel/Palestine. It could be peaceful or violent. But the main point is the injustice and oppression of millions of Palestinians must end as Ahmadinejad recently reaffirmed in is 2008 UN speech:

Quote:

... The Islamic Republic of Iran, while fully respecting the resistance of the oppressed people of Palestine and expressing its all-out support for it, submits its humane solution based on a free referendum in Palestine for determining and establishing the type of state in the entire Palestinian lands to the distinguished Secretary General of the UN...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1024097.html

A referendum would be peaceful. But if peaceful change isn't possible then Iran will keep supporting violent resistance groups, just like the US and Israel fund resistance groups in Iran:

Quote:

Published on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 by The Los Angeles Times
Iran Says US Aids Rebels at Its Borders

by Borzou Daragahi

BAGHDAD - A series of conflicts with insurgent groups along Iran's borders may be impelling Tehran to back its own allies in Iraq in what it regards as a proxy war with the U.S., according to security experts and officials in the U.S., Iran and Iraq.



Dozens of Iranian officials, members of the security forces and insurgents belonging to Kurdish, Arab Iranian and Baluch groups have died in the fighting in recent years. It now appears to be heating up once again after an unusually cold and snowy winter....

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/15/8301/

One difference is that the Iran backed resistance groups are far more popular in the middle east than US backed resistance groups.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Sep 27th, 2008 at 01:02 PM..
 
YoungJoonKim
#12
If US would pull out from Iraq and allow Jews to create their state in United States, everything...will be solved.
LITERALLY.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
+1
#13
A good, informative post earth_as_one, as usual.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+1
#14
Back to "who won the September Presidential Debate?" Tough call and I was actually impressed with
both Obama and McCain. Both used amazing restraint and impressive decorum in debating each other
in a calm and civilized manor. It must have been very close to a draw.

I only hope that when the time comes for Canada's cluster of potential leaders to debate with each other,
that they conduct themselves in the same respectful and adult manner displayed by the US Presidential
Candidates. I don't expect this to happen, but I hope that it might...not turn out to be one large screaming
match at the Canadian goat rodeo where several people are yelling and speaking out of turn embarrassing
not only themselves, but all of Canada.

The US Presidential Debate could have taken place between old friends on a front porch respectfully
making points on different sides of the issues. Our Canadian Debates? Will our leaders need an octagonal
ring and red rubber noses and lion tamers with whips to keep multiple people from speaking and yelling
out of turn while the Canadian Public becomes more disgusted with their childish antics? I would like to
actually hear what our potential Leaders have to say, and not a roomful of unruly children with no manners.
 
ottawabill
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

My hat is off to both of them. They are two very impressive politicians.

Amen!! Ok I prefer McCain, think he's on a straighter path but damn would be nice to see a debate in Canada between a couple sane men who debate policies and not shout at each other and blame and finger point...

I just can't wait to what May scream that there are lots of Men ganging up on her...Layton asking tha the rich be eaten and Dion saying what ever it is he says ..Oh the joy
 
Kreskin
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by ottawabill View Post

Amen!! Ok I prefer McCain, think he's on a straighter path but damn would be nice to see a debate in Canada between a couple sane men who debate policies and not shout at each other and blame and finger point...

I just can't wait to what May scream that there are lots of Men ganging up on her...Layton asking tha the rich be eaten and Dion saying what ever it is he says ..Oh the joy

It's too bad McCain didn't get into the White House in 2000. Right now though I believe their strengths are reversed from the conventional thinking. McCain's is economic because he's more of a traditional fiscal conservative. Obama's is foreign policy because he will be more influential in rebuilding America's image internationally.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+1
#17
I'm still leaning towards McCain, but Obama earned some more respect in this debate in being
able to keep up with the elder statesman. McCain lost some respect when he stood up David
Letterman and then got caught in a lie LIVE on national TV...here's a link. It's nine minutes long
but worth the watch: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkCrfylq-E

I'm looking forward to watching the VP candidates debate on Thursday. That should be fun...
 
china
Conservative
#18
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TV pundits: No clear winner in presidential debate
(Agencies)
Updated: 2008-09-28 07:28
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NEW YORK — It was hard to tell if there were more disagreements voiced during the US presidential debate between John McCain and Barack Obama or after it on television.
The networks' pundits moved quickly Friday to put into perspective a debate seen by tens of millions of Americans, although a clear winner didn't emerge. It was a reflection of cautiousness, the closeness of the race and the influence of furious spinning by both campaigns.


Democratic US presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, center, watches as Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, shakes hands with moderator Jim Lehrer after their first presidential debate at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, Miss. Friday, September 26, 2008. [Agencies]

"There was no knockout, and maybe no knockdown, but McCain was on the offensive throughout," commentator William Kristol said on Fox News Channel.

Related readings:
Fact checking the presidential debate
Obama, McCain debate amid crisis
Obama, McCain argue over war, taxes
His fellow panelist, Juan Williams, quickly retorted, "I thought Barack Obama put John McCain on the defensive all night."
David Gergen, CNN analyst, said, "McCain needed a clear victory tonight and I think that eluded him."

Said Fox's Chris Wallace, "I think the McCain campaign is very happy tonight."
And they weren't even the professional spinners, who try to buttonhole reporters backstage with opinions about as predictable as the sun rising every morning. It has become a cliche of debate nights, a room television networks know they should avoid but can't seem to help themselves.
Another useless TV trick: those meters that can be twisted up or down to show how a voter is responding to a particular passage. Mostly, they looked indecipherable.
Obama's campaign put forward vice presidential candidate Joe Biden for post-debate interviews, and he appeared on all the news networks. His Republican counterpart, Sarah Palin, was nowhere in sight.
Several commentators noted how Obama said at a number of points that McCain was right about something, which could either be construed as a sign of weakness or one in which he was willing to lead in a bipartisan manner. McCain pounded home the point that there were several things his opponent didn't understand about the world.
"McCain very often seemed like he was condescending, seeming like he was lecturing Barack Obama," CNN's Gloria Borger said.
The first debate, which was supposed to be centered on foreign policy, concerned the economy for about 40 minutes. Moderator Jim Lehrer of PBS kept his questions simple to get the men talking. He even tried to push the candidates to address each other instead of the camera, a request that had some success as more heated foreign policy exchanges came.
Snapshot polls by both CNN and CBS News showed Obama with a clear advantage among voters in how people perceived the debate performance. CBS monitored a roomful of uncommitted voters and when asked who won the debate shortly after it was done, the number of people who raised their hands for Obama was more than double than those for McCain.
Consensus for either side will undoubtedly harden as the debate quickly gets reduced to sound bites and Youtube clips.
"Is the race now different than it was at 9 pm eastern time?" asked ABC commentator George Will. "The answer I think is no. This wasn't a game changer. Both had their familiar personas. Barack Obama was the rather tweedy professor conducting a national seminar. John McCain was a rather hotter personality, the national scold."
Pundits didn't need a calendar to start anticipating the next debate, between Biden and Palin. It's scheduled for Oct. 2.
Television networks will find out in a few days whether the McCain-Obama debate could claim the ultimate record of most-watched presidential debate ever.
The standard was set in 1980, when 80.6 million people watched that campaign's only debate between President Jimmy Carter and Republican challenger Ronald Reagan. TV audiences that big typically gather only once a year, for the Super Bowl.
The most-watched debate since 1980 was the second of three between the first President Bush, Bill Clinton and Ross Perot in 1992, seen by just under 70 million people. The first debate in 2004 between President Bush and John Kerry was seen by 62.5 million, Nielsen Media Research said.

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In Between Man
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

You liked that point McCain scored did you? The statement was never made by Amidinejad. So you're actually enamoured of a complete falsehood, a fantasy, a nothing.

C'mon! Are u serious? Who cares if he never said those exact words. You know he believes them! The spiritual leader of Iran said it, and Prez Amin .... Ama....A.....Aaaa....Amidjar .....whatever.....is under his spell.

P.S. racoons are cooler than beavers.....lol
 
In Between Man
Free Thinker
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Damn you guys are good at denial......what is the differene between being " wiped off the map" and "this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world"?????????

Exactly. You ever look into the eyes of that guy? Scary.
 
Kreskin
+1
#21
This is all spin and smokescreen nonsense. Obama is 100% correct. If you don't first exhaust all avenues of diplomacy you end up with a coalition of two when sanctions or a military response is required. No one will back a last resort before all other resorts are tried. This is common sense in kindergarten. Nothing was more obvious that predicting Bush would fail for exactly this reason. The Republicans are a foreign policy catastrophy.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#22
Every American administration is a forign policy disaster, isn't it?
 
Kreskin
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Every American administration is a forign policy disaster, isn't it?

It's called Change. Change We Need.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#24
To tell the truth, I haven't been paying much attebntion to the US elections. It's the one brought on by some spoiled brat hoping to manipulate best conditions for a vote that concerns me more. If the new minority government doesn't get clobbered in a non-confidence motion, our next federal election will be in the shadow of an American ballot battle too. Great go Stevie
 
talloola
No Party Affiliation
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

This is all spin and smokescreen nonsense. Obama is 100% correct. If you don't first exhaust all avenues of diplomacy you end up with a coalition of two when sanctions or a military response is required. No one will back a last resort before all other resorts are tried. This is common sense in kindergarten. Nothing was more obvious that predicting Bush would fail for exactly this reason. The Republicans are a foreign policy catastrophy.

You bet they are, the diplomacy road that Obama will follow, is the 'strength' of the two,
and the idea that the republicans throw at everyone, that you are 'weak' if you talk to
your enemies, is ridiculous. Just as you say, we learn that in kindergarten. Look your
enemy in the eye, and talk to them, straight up. Bush and friends hide behind the media, as they spout all of the 'conditions' they need before they will talk to Iran for
instance.
Yes, they agree to talk, but the list of conditions make it a ultimatum, not an agreement.
In otherwords, to it our way, or the highway.
'
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
#26
I'm impressed by how much more civil our discussions were back 'in the day'.

Remindfull 'blast from the past'.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldt View Post

I'm impressed by how much more civil our discussions were back 'in the day'.

Remindfull 'blast from the past'.



Actually it was FAR more abusive and filled with innumerable profanities. Much of it directed at me but I am not one to turn the other cheek and gave back just as much sh1t.
 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Actually it was FAR more abusive and filled with innumerable profanities. Much of it directed at me but I am not one to turn the other cheek and gave back just as much sh1t.


ahhh-so this was an outlier.
Still a good example compared to our for a in the last couple days..
 
DaSleeper
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by hunboldt View Post

I'm impressed by how much more civil our discussions were back 'in the day'.

Remindfull 'blast from the past'.

Under what name were you posting then??

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Actually it was FAR more abusive and filled with innumerable profanities. Much of it directed at me but I am not one to turn the other cheek and gave back just as much sh1t.

 
hunboldt
Free Thinker
+1 / -1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Under what name were you posting then??


Get back to me when your fruit salad phase has run its course Your long career as 'on line obnoxious stink bat ' appears to confirm your lack of friends in the physical world.
Last edited by hunboldt; Sep 14th, 2013 at 12:35 PM..
 

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