260 Billion Dollars To Clean Up Alberta Oilpatch


OpposingDigit
#1
What would it cost to clean up Alberta’s oilpatch? $260 billion, a top official warns
By Emma McIntosh, David Bruser, Mike De Souza and Carolyn Jarvis
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...ial-warns.html

.... a system that now allows the largest companies to take centuries to clean up their toxic well site graveyards.

Until now, the public has been told the liabilities have been calculated at about $58 billion, far less than Wadsworth’s estimate. The report does not spell out what he based his estimate on and Wadsworth declined an interview. The government meanwhile has only collected $1.6 billion in liability security from companies.

The liabilities include costs that companies must assume to shut down aging and inactive oil and gas exploration wells, facilities and pipelines once they are no longer needed. Another significant part of the liability is the clean-up of toxic tailings ponds from oilsands extraction mines near Fort McMurrray. The ponds have sprawled to cover an area the size of Kelowna.

The tailing ponds are used by companies to dump the waste from the mining of bitumen. The process normally requires hot water to separate bitumen from the oily deposits of sand beneath the boreal forest in Alberta, leaving behind a yogurt-like sludge.
 
White_Unifier
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

What would it cost to clean up Alberta’s oilpatch? $260 billion, a top official warns
By Emma McIntosh, David Bruser, Mike De Souza and Carolyn Jarvis
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...ial-warns.html
.... a system that now allows the largest companies to take centuries to clean up their toxic well site graveyards.
Until now, the public has been told the liabilities have been calculated at about $58 billion, far less than Wadsworth’s estimate. The report does not spell out what he based his estimate on and Wadsworth declined an interview. The government meanwhile has only collected $1.6 billion in liability security from companies.
The liabilities include costs that companies must assume to shut down aging and inactive oil and gas exploration wells, facilities and pipelines once they are no longer needed. Another significant part of the liability is the clean-up of toxic tailings ponds from oilsands extraction mines near Fort McMurrray. The ponds have sprawled to cover an area the size of Kelowna.
The tailing ponds are used by companies to dump the waste from the mining of bitumen. The process normally requires hot water to separate bitumen from the oily deposits of sand beneath the boreal forest in Alberta, leaving behind a yogurt-like sludge.

Make the businesses pay for it and they could just pass the cost on to consumers.
 
MHz
#3
A couple of things strike me as being odd. The total cost has no breakdown so I take the estimate to be so big that people will be okay with it never getting off the ground for several reasons. Cost cleanup goes to the next buyer, just like it does today. I assume the new owners then bill it to consumers at their end. The consumers already paid for 'it' the first time, the pollution is there because the companies cut corners rather than there were no regulations in place at the time. The money went where it always does, into the pockets of the biggest shareholders.


The Canadian Govt is trying to make the tailing from the gold dredges in the Yukon a National Treasure so companies can't go over the same ground to pick up what was missed and part of that would be landscaping at the very end. A disaster is cleaned up and some companies are able to make money without the taxpayer being tapped.

If I am right that the regs down here are the same somebody cannot buy all of them up as you have to make certain improvements per year or you lose it. There you have a situation where the cleanup crew is waiting to start but the Govt is the one holding things up.


In Ft Mac they bury the sand, why not allow it to be taken out by rail someplace south where it can be 'played with' as the sand should be able to be recovered and what is left might have some use or a better method of destruction can be found.


Ft Mac is a dying site anyway, they got what the place was set up for. You cannot make gas out of tar and still make money. Soot alone is the best material for making oil as slippery as it gets
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+3
#4  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Make the businesses pay for it and they could just pass the cost on to consumers.

There is a statue of limitation in effect here, but I believe in the mid 90's because of some of the abandoned wells weren't being decommissioned and cleaned up properly leaving it to the Gov. to clean up. A mandatory clean up fund was formed that Oil companies had to contribute to. The cost of clean up had to be invested into the fund for every new well being completed. Plus I believe 15% to take inflation into account as well as help clean up some of the abandoned wells, and wells that fell before the time of the agreement. the % was agreed to because of when an Oil company bought out another they refused ownership to the abandoned wells, saying the old Oil company should clean it up through the profits of the sale.
 
MHz
#5
Got a link for any of that. The pollution should not have taken place at all. the companies made a lot of extra money because of those extra guideline. They got paid even if they covered up the pollution. The rate this is going the public is paying for it a 3rd time and it still won't get cleaned up.
I guess once greed enters the picture it gets into every corner. Who gets the free money is a question that never get investigated properly and I assume everybody knows why.
 
MHz
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

There is a statue of limitation in effect here, but I believe in the mid 90's because of some of the abandoned wells weren't being decommissioned and cleaned up properly leaving it to the Gov. to clean up. A mandatory clean up fund was formed that Oil companies had to contribute to. The cost of clean up had to be invested into the fund for every new well being completed. Plus I believe 15% to take inflation into account as well as help clean up some of the abandoned wells, and wells that fell before the time of the agreement. the % was agreed to because of when an Oil company bought out another they refused ownership to the abandoned wells, saying the old Oil company should clean it up through the profits of the sale.

Sumps have sawdust mixed in and it is trucked to a landfill that is for harsh products. That fund would go towards that but it would be well short of covering the whole cost.


The clean-up for abandoned sites is on the owner, when they buy out a company that is in the contract. If your fund is in effect then the money is going to the company profits and the owners split it, again.
 
petros
+2
#7
$260B pumped into an economy is $260B pumped into an economy.

Lots of jobs for "Environmental Sciences" grads.
 
MHz
#8
The contracts would go to international corporations, pitiful try.


Nobody even pays their fines so what is the use of courts, the people pick up the cost and the companies walk away richer and still get newer and bigger contracts.


https://thinkprogress.org/25-years-a...-b5a325b28ee1/
The long-term plan for rehabilitating damaged resources has yet to be implemented a full quarter century after the Exxon Valdez oil tanker ran aground in Prince William Sound, Alaska, spewing more than 11 million gallons of crude oil into the surrounding ecosystem.
According to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, the U.S. Justice Department and State of Alaska say they are still waiting for long overdue scientific studies before collecting a final $92 million claim to implement the recovery plan for unanticipated harm to fish, wildlife and habitat.
Cleaning up the Exxon Valdez disaster took four summers and cost approximately $2 billion, according to the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council. In 1991, Exxon reached a civil settlement with the U.S. government and the state of Alaska in which it agreed to pay $900 million in payments, a $25 million criminal fine and $100 million in restitution.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Got a link for any of that. The pollution should not have taken place at all. the companies made a lot of extra money because of those extra guideline. They got paid even if they covered up the pollution. The rate this is going the public is paying for it a 3rd time and it still won't get cleaned up.
I guess once greed enters the picture it gets into every corner. Who gets the free money is a question that never get investigated properly and I assume everybody knows why.

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Sumps have sawdust mixed in and it is trucked to a landfill that is for harsh products. That fund would go towards that but it would be well short of covering the whole cost.
The clean-up for abandoned sites is on the owner, when they buy out a company that is in the contract. If your fund is in effect then the money is going to the company profits and the owners split it, again.

New Funding for Orphan Well Clean Up To Benefit Oilfield Services – MNP LLP

Quote:

To ensure Alberta taxpayers aren’t left on the hook for those costs, the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) has delegated the Orphan Well Association (OWA) to abandon and reclaim orphan wells, with industry picking up the cost through an orphan fund levy that has risen sharply in recent years. The OWA’s current business plan imposes a levy of $30 million on the industry for this year and that will rise to $45 million in 2018 and $60 million in 2020.

Who pays?

Quote:

While the number of orphan wells has dramatically increased over the past year, the problem is not a new one. Thousands of wells have been shut down and abandoned over decades of drilling in Alberta. As long as the company that drilled the wells remains in business, the site remains its responsibility.
When a company goes bankrupt or where it ceases operations and its owners can't be found, the well and its cleanup costs are handed over to the Orphan Well Association, a non-profit organization that operates under the direction of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and Alberta's Energy Regulator.
Oil and gas companies operating in Alberta pay into an orphan well fund that helps pay the cleanup costs, which can be substantial.

 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Sumps have sawdust mixed in and it is trucked to a landfill that is for harsh products. That fund would go towards that but it would be well short of covering the whole cost.
The clean-up for abandoned sites is on the owner, when they buy out a company that is in the contract. If your fund is in effect then the money is going to the company profits and the owners split it, again.

When a new well goes into production the Oil company has to put the cost of cleanup + 15% for that well into a protected account so that taxpayers are not on the hook for cleanup in the future. Nothing to do with International companies, Jews, Zionists or infidels
 
OpposingDigit
#11
When the time for cleanup arrives, all the companies will have walked away and declared bankruptcy which leaves the government with all the liability. The same thing holds true for nuclear power plants.

Alberta regulator apologizes for spooking public with $260-billion cleanup cost estimate
By Emma McIntosh, Steph Wechsler, Carolyn Jarvis and Mike De Souza
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...-estimate.html

The estimated liabilities Wadsworth cited in his February presentation are $200 billion greater than the previous calculation made public by the regulator. The AER had previously said the cost was just over $58 billion.
 
MHz
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

When the time for cleanup arrives, all the companies will have walked away and declared bankruptcy which leaves the government with all the liability. The same thing holds true for nuclear power plants.

Alberta regulator apologizes for spooking public with $260-billion cleanup cost estimate
By Emma McIntosh, Steph Wechsler, Carolyn Jarvis and Mike De Souza
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...-estimate.html

The estimated liabilities Wadsworth cited in his February presentation are $200 billion greater than the previous calculation made public by the regulator. The AER had previously said the cost was just over $58 billion.

Thank You.
 
MHz
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

When a new well goes into production the Oil company has to put the cost of cleanup + 15% for that well into a protected account so that taxpayers are not on the hook for cleanup in the future. Nothing to do with International companies, Jews, Zionists or infidels

The clean-up costs are for old abandoned wells, the ones the companies did not clean up. That is why 'new wells; have updated regulations.

I know you like to argue but when you are making yourself look stupid you might want to make it a short conversation rather than pages of it.


Even if it was done to 1950 standards the new owners that became that in 2000 are required to bring all their properties up to the newer standards.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

When the time for cleanup arrives, all the companies will have walked away and declared bankruptcy which leaves the government with all the liability. The same thing holds true for nuclear power plants.
Alberta regulator apologizes for spooking public with $260-billion cleanup cost estimate
By Emma McIntosh, Steph Wechsler, Carolyn Jarvis and Mike De Souza
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...-estimate.html
The estimated liabilities Wadsworth cited in his February presentation are $200 billion greater than the previous calculation made public by the regulator. The AER had previously said the cost was just over $58 billion.

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Thank You.

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

The clean-up costs are for old abandoned wells, the ones the companies did not clean up. That is why 'new wells; have updated regulations.
I know you like to argue but when you are making yourself look stupid you might want to make it a short conversation rather than pages of it.
Even if it was done to 1950 standards the new owners that became that in 2000 are required to bring all their properties up to the newer standards.


Read the links all the answers are there
 
JamesBondo
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by OpposingDigit View Post

When the time for cleanup arrives, all the companies will have walked away and declared bankruptcy which leaves the government with all the liability. The same thing holds true for nuclear power plants.
Alberta regulator apologizes for spooking public with $260-billion cleanup cost estimate
By Emma McIntosh, Steph Wechsler, Carolyn Jarvis and Mike De Souza
November 01, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...-estimate.html
The estimated liabilities Wadsworth cited in his February presentation are $200 billion greater than the previous calculation made public by the regulator. The AER had previously said the cost was just over $58 billion.


Big deal. Not!


In the past 10 years the industry has brought in over 1320 billion in direct and indirect revenues. 260 billion is a spit in the bucket.
 
MHz
#16
About 20%

Is that supposed to be what was paid to the Canadian people through royalties or the profits the foreign owned oil companies made? You do know that money leaves the country Right?


When you start saying saddling the taxpayers with a phony bill should be allowed due to us getting more money already that we really deserve , that would get most people couch time with a shrink but here it seems like a big bonus from the oil companies may have already been paid.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

$260B pumped into an economy is $260B pumped into an economy.

Lots of jobs for "Environmental Sciences" grads.




You need to learn some basic economics. Cleaning up a mess is not pumping money into the economy; it is using funds that could be used more constructively to fix a problem that should never have been created in the first place.
 
Danbones
Free Thinker
#18
Yeah till you get a solyndra.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Yeah till you get a solyndra.




Old news. And nothing compared to cost overruns in other forms of energy like nuclear, coal, and hydro.
 
MHz
#20
I though those items went straight into the profits of the owners with the most shares.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Old news. And nothing compared to cost overruns in other forms of energy like nuclear, coal, and hydro.

Old news ? Crony capitalist bankrupts his company after milking the taxpayer . How long wo7ld that be news if his name was Kocke ?
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Old news ? Crony capitalist bankrupts his company after milking the taxpayer . How long wo7ld that be news if his name was Kocke ?




Compared to the continuing boondoggles in the coal and oil industry Solyndra is insignificant. And yes, it is old news. Solyndra collects nothing now.
 
JamesBondo
#23
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