Little Tori's murderers Charged.


#juan
#1
Little girl's abductors charged with murder.

A man and a woman from Woodstock, Ont., have been charged in the abduction and killing of eight-year-old Tori Stafford.
Michael Thomas C.S. Rafferty, 28, and Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, were taken into custody on Tuesday night. They made brief appearances as charges were filed Wednesday morning at a court in the southern Ontario community.
Rafferty was charged with abduction and murder. McClintic was charged with abducting the child, assisting Rafferty in escaping the area and being an accessory to murder after the fact.

Pair charged with abducting and killing Tori Stafford
 
#juan
+1
#2
Sometimes I really wish we had the death penalty. This pair of assh--es ruined the lives of the little girl, the parents, not to mention their own miserable lives. Did they get that big a pleasure from what they did to make it worth it?
 
L Gilbert
#3
Reminds me of the short life of Jamie Bulger. 3 years.
 
Polygong
#4
What can I say other than as a parent myself this is extremely heart breaking.

Not to divert this sad story to the political, but the death penalty would not have prevented this.
 
#juan
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong View Post

What can I say other than as a parent myself this is extremely heart breaking.

Not to divert this sad story to the political, but the death penalty would not have prevented this.

We don't know if the killers, if they were facing the death penalty for this crime, would have done this. The threat of the death penalty could have saved this little girl's life. One thing we do know, is that after a lethal injection, killers never re-offend.
 
Polygong
#6
Can't speak for these particular killers, but it has been shown over and over again that the dp is not an effective deterrent. That's why many places that have it are abolishing it while almost none of the countries without it are reinstating it.

Look at it this way, at this point in time in the case of Christine Jessop, if we had the death penalty Guy Paul Morin would be dead.

I'd rather be living in a world with these scumbags rotting in prison and Guy Paul Morin walking free than living in a world where they are all dead.
 
#juan
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong View Post

Can't speak for these particular killers, but it has been shown over and over again that the dp is not an effective deterrent. That's why many places that have it are abolishing it while almost none of the countries without it are reinstating it.

Look at it this way, at this point in time in the case of Christine Jessop, if we had the death penalty Guy Paul Morin would be dead.

I'd rather be living in a world with these scumbags rotting in prison and Guy Paul Morin walking free than living in a world where they are all dead.

I agree with you but is there any doubt that these two are guilty? How about Olsen or Bernardo? I can think of a lot better ways to spend a hundred grand or so a year each than to pay for extra guards to keep Olsen or Bernardo, or these two away from the general prison population.
 
Polygong
#8
They have not even been put to trial yet. How can I say they are guilty? All I know is that they have been arrested, we have yet to see a shred of the evidence. So of course, at this point, they are presumed innocent. That's a fundamental element of western democracy.

I mean, chances are that the police have arrested the right people, but we don't know that for sure.

Guy Paul Morin, David Milgaard and Donald Marshall were found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at their trials even. So there is always doubt really.

If I thought for a second that instituting capital punishment would significantly reduce violent crime, I would support it. But it doesn't, that's very clear. It doesn't even reduce crime by an insignificant amount.
 
#juan
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong View Post

They have not even been put to trial yet. How can I say they are guilty? All I know is that they have been arrested, we have yet to see a shred of the evidence. So of course, at this point, they are presumed innocent. That's a fundamental element of western democracy.

I mean, chances are that the police have arrested the right people, but we don't know that for sure.

Guy Paul Morin, David Milgaard and Donald Marshall were found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at their trials even. So there is always doubt really.

If I thought for a second that instituting capital punishment would significantly reduce violent crime, I would support it. But it doesn't, that's very clear. It doesn't even reduce crime by an insignificant amount.

Get off your high horse. I didn't mean we should string them up tomorrow morning. What I'm saying is that in the case of a guy like Olsen, we all know he is guilty of ten murders of children. Why are we paying millions to keep him alive. We all know Bernardo is guilty. These latest two haven't been to trial yet but I've got a feeling that they are guilty. After due process, and if they are found guilty, I see no reason to spend extra money to keep them alive.
 
Polygong
#10
I'm not on any high horse. Your words:

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

I agree with you but is there any doubt that these two are guilty?

How else could I interpret this?

Why spend the money to keep these guys in prison? Well, first is to avoid the execution, and by the end of their trials, the three innocent men I cited were seen as no less guilty than Olsen or Bernardo. It took a hell of alot for these three men to prove their innocence.

But moreover, I simply do not want to see society as a whole stoop to the level of murderous criminals. It only reinforces the idea in criminal minds that there are times when murder is justified.
 
shadowshiv
#11
Back to the OT, I must admit that I am shocked. I thought for sure that the mother had something to do with it(her continual mind-boggingly weird actions after Tori had disappeared for example)! I was wrong about that, and I wish I was wrong about my feeling that Tori was dead(I had that feeling almost right from the beginning). The female suspect is apparently going to lead the police to where the body is located.

I really hate cases where children are involved.
 
Diarygirl
#12
I hope the truth comes out and whatever happened to that poor little girl is known. Whoever is responsible should get the book thrown at them. I know if it was my daughter, I would probably end up in prison over it by trying to get to the perpertraters!! (That's irrational thinking but I can immagine the horror that the parents are feeling and the anger that may come with it to especially when the truth is known!)
What is this world coming to? For an innocent little child to lose her life and who knows what fear or pain she felt before succumbing to her death? My thoughts are with her family and friends. She'll never be hurt again, bless her pure heart and soul!
 
SCB
#13


I got this from one of the many face book, groups that were dedicated to finding little "Tori"...I hate to have to post this, when I know ALL of us were hoping for a different outcome...but sadly it has not turned out that way!, although no body has been found as of yet...I have from the beginning felt the worst. ( I write this in "purple", in her memory!)
 
GreenFish66
#14
Let's wait to see how the trial goes before making too many judgements..A new neighbour?..The Mother did know the abductor...Girl 8 walkin home..Who can you trust?...How well did the mother know the Neighbours?...This is far from over..The real work is on going...Were there parties?..Drugs..?..Still many issues to cover......Lifestyles can put people in situations they are no longer in control of !...The one who is not to blame is Tory!.....The verdict is still out on the rest...We all knew for a while she was taken by someone she knew.Neighbours and families are always first.The worst was probable and known.

Guilty will be punished over and over again where their goin'..

Tory , another beautiful young girl taken too early by an animals sick perversion..

God bless the children ...We will Punish the beasts
 
JBeee
#15
Already pretty pictures are being painted around the female abductor involved in this case.

Next we`ll be hearing sad stories about how she was a victim from the get-go....drugged and forced to comply by the male suspect, a history of psychiatric problems, given a lighter sentence for helping police find the body.....whatever can be conjured up by the courts and media to get her off and charges dropped.

I say hang the both of em.
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

Sometimes I really wish we had the death penalty. This pair of assh--es ruined the lives of the little girl, the parents, not to mention their own miserable lives. Did they get that big a pleasure from what they did to make it worth it?

There's absolutely no doubt we need the death penalty for these scum and furthermore in just as painful a way as the death they inflicted. Lot of wisdom in the old adage "an eye for an eye........................". Just don't know how they can determine she's dead for sure without a body. Wonder how many responses there will be to this from the "bleeding hearts."
 
JLM
#17
"So of course, at this point, they are presumed innocent."- EXCEPT for one little fact, there may be others with far more extensive knowledge than yours who are making the call.
 
karrie
+1
#18
what bugs me is that SHE lured her away. She should be held just as accountable for the death as him. Yet she is apparently not facing murder charges. Pisses me off.
 
SCB
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

what bugs me is that SHE lured her away. She should be held just as accountable for the death as him. Yet she is apparently not facing murder charges. Pisses me off.


Quote:

The female suspect, who was arrested first on an outstanding warrant, is said to be helping police locate the body.

CTV Toronto - Police focus on finding Tori's body after arrests - CTV News, Shows and Sports -- Canadian Television

Ya I think they are going easy on her..cause she is the one who is telling them (the police) the where a bouts of little "tori" .

She probably has a side deal with the District Attorney, a lesser charge, she was probably quick to implicate him ( Michael Thomas C.S. Rafferty) and paint him as the murder and opt for a deal for leniency for "helping"...
 
JBeee
#20
My guess is `deals` have already been arranged for her getting a lighter sentence, despite they being arrested less than 24 hours. Not surprising, here in Ontario and it`s "justice" system, *facts be dammed.*


Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

what bugs me is that SHE lured her away. She should be held just as accountable for the death as him. Yet she is apparently not facing murder charges. Pisses me off.

 
karrie
#21
There are times when I come to understand (although not condone) the spirit of vigilantism. There are times when I can understand why a parent would simply blow away a piece of scum they know is cutting deals and slipping through the system.
 
pegger
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

There are times when I come to understand (although not condone) the spirit of vigilantism. There are times when I can understand why a parent would simply blow away a piece of scum they know is cutting deals and slipping through the system.

Generally, I do not support Capital Punishment - but in cases like this, it makes me question my stance too.

Personally, I think death is too good a punishment for those that perpetrated these crimes.
 
JLM
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

what bugs me is that SHE lured her away. She should be held just as accountable for the death as him. Yet she is apparently not facing murder charges. Pisses me off.

Yes and no old wise one, I don't think a person should be charged with murder if they didn't commit murder BUT IF she did lure her for the purpose and intent of murder then she should be charged with a crime that carries an equally severe penalty. (Sorry maybe that should have been "young" wise one.)
 
L Gilbert
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Polygong View Post

They have not even been put to trial yet. How can I say they are guilty? All I know is that they have been arrested, we have yet to see a shred of the evidence. So of course, at this point, they are presumed innocent. That's a fundamental element of western democracy.

I mean, chances are that the police have arrested the right people, but we don't know that for sure.

Guy Paul Morin, David Milgaard and Donald Marshall were found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at their trials even. So there is always doubt really.

If I thought for a second that instituting capital punishment would significantly reduce violent crime, I would support it. But it doesn't, that's very clear. It doesn't even reduce crime by an insignificant amount.

The one thing it does, beyond any doubt, though, is cut back on reoffending (capital punishment as self-defense).
 
#juan
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by pegger View Post

Generally, I do not support Capital Punishment - but in cases like this, it makes me question my stance too.

Personally, I think death is too good a punishment for those that perpetrated these crimes.

I think support for capital punishment is strongest just after a crime like this. I don't normally lobby in favour of capital punishment but with some animals like Olsen and Bernardo, I would gladly bring the rope. Any case like this involving children brings my blood to a boil. Obviously, Tori trusted this woman who led her to her death. At this moment I don't see any excuse for keeping either of these two scumbags alive.
 
JLM
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

I think support for capital punishment is strongest just after a crime like this. I don't normally lobby in favour of capital punishment but with some animals like Olsen and Bernardo, I would gladly bring the rope. Any case like this involving children brings my blood to a boil. Obviously, Tori trusted this woman who led her to her death. At this moment I don't see any excuse for keeping either of these two scumbags alive.

Absolutely and DON'T forget sweet little Karla Homolka (who may well have been the most nefarious of the whole works)
 
pegger
#27
Juan, to be quite open, as a parent I would want the following:

1) 1 hour with each offender alone, in a room with no windows, cameras or questions asked before or after,
2) Each offender castrated, without pain killers of any sort,
3) the offenders either lobotomized and turned into living vegetables so they can live out their days drooling OR crippled in the way where their brain is fine, but all they can do is blink (personally, I think the second choice is worse).

In short - I would want them to suffer...and for a long time. Tori's parents and brother will suffer every day for the rest of their lives - why should these monsters have the privilege of not suffering the same length of time?

Any thing that hurts a child (I can't call them people or human) is beyond despicable to me.

Is what I suggested Justice? No - but it is revenge, and when something like this happens, I understand the desire for it.
 
karrie
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Yes and no old wise one, I don't think a person should be charged with murder if they didn't commit murder BUT IF she did lure her for the purpose and intent of murder then she should be charged with a crime that carries an equally severe penalty. (Sorry maybe that should have been "young" wise one.)

true enough.... it's not the word I want, it's the accountability, the sentencing.
 
JLM
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by pegger View Post

Juan, to be quite open, as a parent I would want the following:

1) 1 hour with each offender alone, in a room with no windows, cameras or questions asked before or after,
2) Each offender castrated, without pain killers of any sort,
3) the offenders either lobotomized and turned into living vegetables so they can live out their days drooling OR crippled in the way where their brain is fine, but all they can do is blink (personally, I think the second choice is worse).

In short - I would want them to suffer...and for a long time. Tori's parents and brother will suffer every day for the rest of their lives - why should these monsters have the privilege of not suffering the same length of time?

Any thing that hurts a child (I can't call them people or human) is beyond despicable to me.

Is what I suggested Justice? No - but it is revenge, and when something like this happens, I understand the desire for it.

I sometimes feel exactly the same way, but then I get to wondering if after awhile I would really get the satisfaction out of it I thought- probably not. The man (woman) is likely already "damaged" far more than you could damage him/her.
 
GreenFish66
#30
Punish the Beast 2 tame the human
 

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