Is needlessly sacrificing your child, as God did, child abuse and murder?


French Patriot
#1
Is needlessly sacrificing your child, as God did, child abuse and murder?

Bishop Spong indicated that we Christians should not perceive God as a God who demands barbaric acts like human sacrifice to appease his sense of justice. He uses the term child abuse and I just call it more of what it would be if the myth was real; murder.

I say needlessly because God has no needs. He only has wants and no decent God would want to needlessly sacrifice his son.

If a Sacrifice were required, God would not send a boy to do a manís job and he would be man enough to step up himself.

If you were to dare judge this issue or scenario of God, --- knowing that he planned to have Jesus sacrificed even before creating the potential for sin, would you find God criminally liable for child abuse and murder?

Regards
DL
 
Goober
#2
Man made the decision to crucify Jesus. Not God.
 
Blackleaf
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Man made the decision to crucify Jesus. Not God.

The Italians killed Jesus.
 
lone wolf
+1
#4
I understood Jesus to be into his thirties - hardly a child in the Middle East
 
Blackleaf
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

I understood Jesus to be into his thirties - hardly a child in the Middle East

I think when he means "child" he means He was God's son.
 
damngrumpy
#6
The whole crucifixion thing was the attempt of the church scholars to create a martyr
for the ages. they came up with the salvation story its more symbolic than anything.
I gave up all literal translations of meaning in the Bible. Personally you had four
leaders fighting for control of the church Matthew Mark Luke and John. These guys
were forced to compromise lest the church be pulled apart by infighting so they came
to four books of the Bible and sometimes they express different things. The central
theme was the Martyr theme. God sacrificed his son to the ages cause it was sort of
the theme of the old Testament.
He was symbolically sacrificed as God did not intervene in the legal process and it was
under Jewish Law not the Italians. Rome stayed out of it the Jewish religious leaders
were scared as hell of this guy who is winning converts all over the place.
It should be remembered if you paid your taxes, and didn't attempt to overthrow the
government Rome didn't care what you did.
I know if in doubt blame God nice try doesn't work that way
 
Blackleaf
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

The whole crucifixion thing was the attempt of the church scholars to create a martyr
for the ages. they came up with the salvation story its more symbolic than anything.
I gave up all literal translations of meaning in the Bible. Personally you had four
leaders fighting for control of the church Matthew Mark Luke and John. These guys
were forced to compromise lest the church be pulled apart by infighting so they came
to four books of the Bible and sometimes they express different things. The central
theme was the Martyr theme. God sacrificed his son to the ages cause it was sort of
the theme of the old Testament.
He was symbolically sacrificed as God did not intervene in the legal process and it was
under Jewish Law not the Italians. Rome stayed out of it the Jewish religious leaders
were scared as hell of this guy who is winning converts all over the place.
It should be remembered if you paid your taxes, and didn't attempt to overthrow the
government Rome didn't care what you did.
I know if in doubt blame God nice try doesn't work that way


Stating that the Jews killed Jesus is just anti-Semitic claptrap which was believed by the Nazis but repudiated by the Catholic Church in the 1960s. Even the former Pope didmissed the claims in a 2011 book he wrote.
 
EagleSmack
+2 / -1
#8
Another predator wildebeests face is the Cheetah.



Here a Wildebeests keep a wary eye on a lone cheetah

 
coldstream
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by French Patriot View Post

Is needlessly sacrificing your child, as God did, child abuse and murder?

Bishop Spong indicated that we Christians should not perceive God as a God who demands barbaric acts like human sacrifice to appease his sense of justice. He uses the term child abuse and I just call it more of what it would be if the myth was real; murder.

I say needlessly because God has no needs. He only has wants and no decent God would want to needlessly sacrifice his son.

If a Sacrifice were required, God would not send a boy to do a man’s job and he would be man enough to step up himself.

If you were to dare judge this issue or scenario of God, --- knowing that he planned to have Jesus sacrificed even before creating the potential for sin, would you find God criminally liable for child abuse and murder?

Regards
DL

Without an understanding of the redeeming quality of suffering, you cannot understand Christianity or Christ's passion or the structure of the Trinity.

Also it beyond the capacity of a finite, temporal, natural Creature.. to fully comprehend the ultimate motives and methods of an infinite, eternal, supernatural Creator.. certainly in this life. The substance of faith is accepting that there is a purpose and a plan to it all. Without that the world becomes a very absurd and meaningless place.

I've referred you to Job 38 before as the best articulation of the chasm between the human and divine perspectives, but it all seems beyond you FP.
Last edited by coldstream; Dec 10th, 2013 at 02:34 PM..
 
damngrumpy
+2
#10
Suffering seems to be the main theme of most religions and its the reason I
don't get caught up in the mainstream religions anymore. And to Blackleaf
history is history, and that is it the Romans did not make the decision it was
made for political reason within the Jewish State simple as that.
As for anti semitism nonsense. I have a granddaughter who is part Jewish
Can't blame her or the present day Jewish community for something that
happened two thousand years ago, but at the time those who were in power
did what they did cause Jesus was a revolutionary and we couldn't have
that. It was about religion and politics and the events of the time and they
cannot be denied. At least in South Africa they jailed Mandela they crucified
Christ.
 
French Patriot
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Man made the decision to crucify Jesus. Not God.




1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.


Need I say more?


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

I understood Jesus to be into his thirties - hardly a child in the Middle East


I do not see age as being a factor.


At what age does it become ok to have your child needlessly murdered ?


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

The whole crucifixion thing was the attempt of the church scholars to create a martyr
for the ages. they came up with the salvation story its more symbolic than anything.
I gave up all literal translations of meaning in the Bible. Personally you had four
leaders fighting for control of the church Matthew Mark Luke and John. These guys
were forced to compromise lest the church be pulled apart by infighting so they came
to four books of the Bible and sometimes they express different things. The central
theme was the Martyr theme. God sacrificed his son to the ages cause it was sort of
the theme of the old Testament.
He was symbolically sacrificed as God did not intervene in the legal process and it was
under Jewish Law not the Italians. Rome stayed out of it the Jewish religious leaders
were scared as hell of this guy who is winning converts all over the place.
It should be remembered if you paid your taxes, and didn't attempt to overthrow the
government Rome didn't care what you did.
I know if in doubt blame God nice try doesn't work that way


The last thing Rome did was stay out of religion but I do agree that it was all a fabrication.


Caesar's Messiah Promo - YouTube


Regards
DL

Quote: Originally Posted by coldstream View Post

Without an understanding of the redeeming quality of suffering, you cannot understand Christianity or Christ's passion or the structure of the Trinity.

Also it beyond the capacity of a finite, temporal, natural Creature.. to fully comprehend the ultimate motives and methods of an infinite, eternal, supernatural Creator.. certainly in this life. The substance of faith is accepting that there is a purpose and a plan to it all. Without that the world becomes a very absurd and meaningless place.

I've referred you to Job 38 before as the best articulation of the chasm between the human and divine perspectives, but it all seems beyond you FP.



I guess so.


In Job, all I get of that morality is from where God admits that he let Satan move him to do evil without just cause.


I do not comprehend as much as I like but I do recognize when God himself says he is a sinner like everybody else.


There is no chasm as A & E became as God, his own admission, in their moral sense so my moral sense is quite good enough to condemn the prick whose *** is filled with your head.


Regards
DL
 
lone wolf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by French Patriot View Post

At what age does it become ok to have your child needlessly murdered ?
Regards
DL

Child abuse.... Boy to do a man's job.... Are they statements valid in reference to a 30+-year-old-man?

Apparently if a god's agenda was a sacrifice for man's salvation and if-it-bleeds-it-leads (I presume that's never changed) there may have been a need.
 
MHz
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by French Patriot View Post

Is needlessly sacrificing your child, as God did, child abuse and murder?


Yes and anybody doing that should be hung. With God it may take some time before He is dead, all the ones sending soldiers to fight in a needless war, which is actually all wars, would be co-defendents. If you don't (willingly) include all of them them then you might be racist.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#14
The only real need is people still believed in sacrifices to gods real or imagined
and like the Druids faith they usurped with our present holidays. You know
Christmas the Winter Solstice from the Celts and so on. They did the have to
sacrifice thing in the times of the Superstitious Middle East. The difference is
if God himself was behind it it was alright. Like the Great Flood story and so on.
Come to think of it when you buy insurance how come the exceptions are all
violent and Acts of God?
 
WLDB
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Stating that the Jews killed Jesus is just anti-Semitic claptrap which was believed by the Nazis but repudiated by the Catholic Church in the 1960s. Even the former Pope didmissed the claims in a 2011 book he wrote.

I never understood why some think saying the Jews killed Jesus is anti-semitic. The high priests did want to get rid of him, they did arrest him and handed him over to the Romans. That doesnt mean the entire race/religion is to blame for it - just a few people who happened to be Jewish. Using it as an excuse to persecute the Jews for many centuries was anti-semitic but not bringing up the fact that a few Jews did want to get rid of the guy.
 
Zipperfish
+1
#16
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, to be honest.
 
SLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Zipperfish View Post

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, to be honest.

Me neither. I only check these threads now for Wildebeest updates.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Another predator wildebeests face is the Cheetah.



Here a Wildebeests keep a wary eye on a lone cheetah




Bump.........
 
Goober
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Another predator wildebeests face is the Cheetah.



Here a Wildebeests keep a wary eye on a lone cheetah

And the question I pose is this - Are they all hockey fans?
 
EagleSmack
+2
#20
Although the Cheetah is a fine hunter... few will take on a full grown Wildebeest alone .




But they will attack in groups.






But never underestimate the Wildebeest






Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

And the question I pose is this - Are they all hockey fans?

Great question. I will check on that.

I do know they are fans of short grass.

Here a Wildebeest eats short grass.



Here many Wildebeests are eating short grass.

 
MHz
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

I do know they are fans of short grass.
Here a Wildebeest eats short grass.
Here many Wildebeests are eating short grass.

So do you think what used to be belly high grass shrank back into the ground or were eaten.





Last edited by MHz; Dec 10th, 2013 at 05:41 PM..
 
BornRuff
+1
#22
So, are we discussing if it is ok to murder your children?

We simply don't have enough information here. Did the kid in question leave the god damned lights on in the basement again even though I reminded him a million ****ing times not to do so?

Unless god wants to pay my hydro bill he can stay the **** out of it.
 
MHz
#23
Excuse me, what happened to the 2 time rule? We learned to count to that number many times. The words 'that's one' should not followed by 'where's number two?' because that becomes number two right there and then. It is the robber-barons that get off the accountability hook the billion times.
 
Sal
+2
#24
Technically God and Jesus are one and the same so no.

I remember when I was a young kid and we took the Abraham story and I was identifying strongly with Isaac as some kids might do at 9, that was just another nail into the coffin for me in the whole Christian saga. Even at nine it seemed to be either a load of malarkey or Abraham sucked as a father.
 
Goober
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

I remember when I was a young kid and we took the Abraham story and I was identifying strongly with Isaac as some kids might do at 9, that was just another nail into the coffin for me in the whole Christian saga. Even at nine it seemed to be either a load of malarkey or Abraham sucked as a father.

Lots of disagreement by Theologians on that one.
 
Sal
+3
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Lots of disagreement by Theologians on that one.

don't know Goob only knew as a kid it scared the bejesus out of me...(literally) because they push the fact that this was the holy thing to do, the right thing to do, the only thing to do if you loved God...you kill your kid...

then I realized my parents loved me, would never do that, and it was a load, even if the church said it was right...

even kids think
 
EagleSmack
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

So do you think what used to be belly high grass shrank back into the ground or were eaten.


Many things could have happened to grass that is belly high. Saying that grass has shrunk down is foolish.


 
Spade
+2
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

even kids think

But not all thumpers.
 
Goober
+1
#29
Problem with some is they look for what they consider to be the bad stuff in the Bible- Very reasonable on their part.
 
Spade
+1
#30
Especially if they conclude there is no religion that corners the truth.
 

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