UK Gov In Turmoil & Bexit Mess.


Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
+1
#31
It’s so fun watching the UK self destruct
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
+1
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

Watching all this in the background....on BBC.............

What happened to the Brit decorum, proper protocol , tact and diplomacy??

Name calling!! such heavy handed verbosity.

They might want to remember that whatever they come up with.......the EU must go along with.. ..if they are going to get along with the EU in the future. Don't think the UK can go it alone.......in an isolationist fashion. No nation can ....not anymore. Complicated process made more difficult with personality issues.


Don't watch much of the Brit parliament, do you? They put a lot of governing houses to shame when it comes to interesting and neat ways to tell each other off.


Frankly, I kind'a like it.


All that said, I actually agree with BoJo - stop extending the deadline, get Brexit over with.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
+1
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Don't watch much of the Brit parliament, do you? They put a lot of governing houses to shame when it comes to interesting and neat ways to tell each other off.


Frankly, I kind'a like it.


All that said, I actually agree with BoJo - stop extending the deadline, get Brexit over with.

truth be told.......I like it too. Very dynamic at the moment.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

Watching all this in the background....on BBC.............

What happened to the Brit decorum, proper protocol , tact and diplomacy??

Name calling!! such heavy handed verbosity.

They might want to remember that whatever they come up with.......the EU must go along with.. ..if they are going to get along with the EU in the future. Don't think the UK can go it alone.......in an isolationist fashion. No nation can ....not anymore. Complicated process made more difficult with personality issues.

Good should we join a union with the Americans , letting them hold all the cards of course ?
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

He is behaving in a tRumpian way.........where the law is concerned & recognized only as it suits him.

That can only render cracks in the civility that still exits.

Don't think that BOJO is as mentally disordered as Trump is........but he is very over bearing, aggressive and single minded. He can be off putting. They are NOT "strength ......and not the kind of qualities needed in effective leaders.

They could have had Jeffery . Lol
 
Blackleaf
+1
#36
Harriet Harman has confirmed she will run to become the next Commons Speaker.

The Labour MP and Mother of the House - the longest continuously-serving female MP - made the announcement after the current Speaker, John Bercow, said he would stand down by 31 October.

Ms Harman told BBC Radio 4's Today programme it was the Speaker's job "to ensure Parliament can have its say".

Other MPs intending to stand include Tory Sir Edward Leigh, Labour's Chris Bryant and the SNP's Pete Wishart.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-49646257
 
Blackleaf
#37
Bollocks to Bercow

Good riddance to the anti-democratic speaker.

NOEL YAXLEY
10th September 2019
Spiked



If there is any potential for celebration during the current constitutional nightmare, it is the news that John Bercow is stepping down as speaker of the House of Commons.

Bercow made the announcement yesterday in his typically bombastic style during the last parliamentary session before the summer conference season begins. Rather than make use of the precious little time to debate or get on with Brexit – the thing we have been tearing our hair out to get done for the past three-and-a-half years – MPs turned the Commons into a Bercow love-in.

For a solid hour-and-a-half, a nauseating and sycophantic gushing emanated from the opposition benches. Jeremy Corbyn led the adoration. ‘Democracy is stronger for your being the speaker’, said the Labour leader, before calling Bercow ‘superb’.

Of course, Bercow’s real role in parliament has not been to strengthen democracy but to weaken it. Time and again, he has stood in the way of Brexit. By deciding when and when not to follow parliamentary precedent, he has done everything in his gift to thwart the will of the 17.4million people who voted to leave the EU.

In March, he cited an archaic 400-year-old rule to block a third reading of Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement. He went well beyond his capacity as speaker effectively to force May to return to the EU and push for an extension to the Article 50 process.

He also facilitated last week’s chaos by allowing MPs to seize control of the parliamentary timetable using Standing Order 24. This effectively gave control to Remainer MPs who relished the opportunity to remove No Deal from the negotiating table.

The speaker of the house is supposed to be impartial but Bercow is no such thing. He has admitted to voting Remain in the 2016 EU referendum. His Brussels-based bias is constantly on show – most ostentatiously on his family car, which was photographed emblazoned with a ‘Bollocks to Brexit’ sticker (though he claims it belonged to his wife).

Bercow embodies the anti-democratic establishment class. Because of him and his Remainer allies, the public is extremely frustrated and increasingly angry. His sheer arrogance and contempt for Brexiteers has helped to sharpen the divide between the people and parliament. He has complained that Johnson’s decision to prorogue parliament was ‘an offence against the democratic process’, but he has spent the past three years undermining the largest vote in UK history. One government source put it bluntly: ‘Bercow thinks he’ll walk away as a hero, when most people in the country don’t know who he is and those that do think he’s a nauseating wanker.’

We must hope the next speaker will respect not just parliamentarians but also the people – the source of parliament’s authority. But with the current crop of MPs, we could very well see more of the same.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/0...cks-to-bercow/
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#38
You are certainly right about the current "constitutional nightmare" ..........crisis??
 
Blackleaf
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

You are certainly right about the current "constitutional nightmare" ..........crisis??

Course it's a crisis. The sort of constitutional crisis which carried on and got worse over many years in the early 17th Century - and we know what ended up happening back then.

But who do you think is to blame for this crisis? Who do YOU think the bad guys are?
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
+1
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Course it's a crisis. The sort of constitutional crisis which carried on and got worse over many years in the early 17th Century - and we know what ended up happening back then.

But who do you think is to blame for this crisis? Who do YOU think the bad guys are?

Seems that it started with that referendum..........and went downhill from there. Everyone from that moment has mishandled it. There were no clear objectives a......let alone a plan of action. There were a lot of assumptions about how simple it was going to be.........with very little examination of how complicated the departure would be....Now it is out of control and BoJo is not the personality type to handle a crisis.;.............as he is prone to crate them.
 
Blackleaf
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

Seems that it started with that referendum..........

I think it started not with the referendum - democratic votes shouldn't really cause a constitutional crisis in a democracy - but when the Remainers stared to overturn that democratic decision.

As for leaving the EU, it should be a simple matter. All Britain has to do is declare herself independent and that she will no longer follow EU rules. It's not f£cking difficult.

Did America have to go through years of negotiations with Britain in order to make sure it left the British Empire with a deal or did it just tell Britain to f£ck off?

Most countries tend to gain their independence just by telling their rulers: "That's it. F&ck off." They don't tend to partake in negotiations beforehand.


Britain shouldn't be negotiating with the EU for her independence. She should just walk away and declare it.
Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 07:54 PM..
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

I think it started not with the referendum - democratic votes shouldn't really cause a constitutional crisis in a democracy - but when the Remainers stared to overturn that democratic decision.

As for leaving the EU, it should be a simple matter. All Britain has to do is declare herself independent and that she will no longer follow EU rules. It's not f£cking difficult.

Did America have to go through years of negotiations with Britain in order to make sure it left the British Empire with a deal or did it just tell Britain to f£ck off?

Most countries tend to gain their independence just by telling their rulers: "That's it. F&ck off." They don't tend to partake in negotiations beforehand.


Britain shouldn't be negotiating with the EU for her independence. She should just walk away and declare it.

But can she really do that?? What agreements were signed when the EU was formed.........As a member of the EU she would have had a vital role.......and that role has to be extracted too. You can't compare this situation in the UK now with the US gong in dependant when it did many years ago. Different dynamic completely.
 
Blackleaf
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

But can she really do that?? What agreements were signed when the EU was formed.........As a member of the EU she would have had a vital role.......and that role has to be extracted too. You can't compare this situation in the UK now with the US gong in dependant when it did many years ago. Different dynamic completely.

Erm, countries tend not to stick with agreements and treaties when declaring their independence, you idiot. They tend to just rip them up.

As for UK-EU treaties - there's the 2009 Treaty of Lisbon and the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, the former creating the EU Constitution and the latter creating the EU itself in 1993 out of the EEC - nothing much to negotiate there.


Britain has had no need to take part in negotiations. They're f-cking stupid. All she had to do was declare herself independent on 24th June 2016 and that would have been that. What the f+ck would the EU have done?
Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 08:28 PM..
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Erm, countries tend not to stick with agreements and treaties when declaring their independence, you idiot. They tend to just rip them up.

As for UK-EU treaties - there's the 2009 Treaty of Lisbon and the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, the former creating the EU Constitution and the latter creating the EU itself in 1993 out of the EEC - nothing much to negotiate there.


Britain has had no need to take part in negotiations. They're f-cking stupid. All she had to do was declare herself independent on 24th June 2016 and that would have been that. What the f+ck would the EU have done?

this is really emotional for you, isn't it??
 
Hoid
#45
UK asks to leave the EU - cannot decide how to do so - therefore blame the EU

what a bunch of idiots
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+1
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

this is really emotional for you, isn't it??

I think it is for most thinking Brits . Sovereignty is something that people have fought and died for in all of recorded history .
 
Hoid
#47
Boris lied to the Queen about the closure of government - he must resign
 
Blackleaf
+1
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

this is really emotional for you, isn't it??

It sure is.
 
Blackleaf
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Boris lied to the Queen about the closure of government - he must resign

Says who?

I also think Elizabeth II is pretty knowledgeable about how Parliament works, too.
 
Blackleaf
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Boris lied to the Queen about the closure of government - he must resign

As I said, the Queen must be fairly knowledgeable about how Parliament works after 67 years. So to say she was hoodwinked by Johnson just makes you sound silly.

Not surprisingly, someone agrees with me...

STEPHEN GLOVER: What next, M'luds? Call the Queen as a witness - and ask if a Mr Boris Johnson cruelly tricked her?

By Stephen Glover for the Daily Mail
11 Sep 2019

If the judges are correct, the Queen herself has been unwittingly complicit in an unlawful act
Even Boris Johnson's enemies couldn't reasonably claim his seven weeks in office have been dull
Even Boris Johnson's enemies couldn't reasonably claim his seven weeks in office have been dull
Even Boris Johnson's enemies couldn't reasonably claim his seven weeks in office have been dull.

No sooner does one thunderbolt shoot out of the blue than it is followed by another from an unsuspected direction.

The ruling of three senior Scottish judges that the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament illegally, and hoodwinked Her Majesty the Queen in the process, sounds on the surface about as serious as it can get.

If the judges are correct, the Queen has been unwittingly complicit in an unlawful act.

It's a good thing she can't be summoned to her own court, and asked to relate how she was led down the garden path by a Mr B. Johnson.

Not for the first time, he has been accused of duplicitous behaviour towards a member of the female sex.

Paranoid

Did he pull the wool over her eyes? Is this, as some foaming Remainers assert, another constitutional outrage which should result in his resignation, and even imprisonment?

I submit the answer to both questions is 'No', and I would guess - though obviously I can't be sure - that in a week or so we will have moved on from this crisis and be hysterically gripped by another.

I believe the Scottish judges are completely wrong. I don't impugn their motives, and won't make much of the revelation that one of them, Lord Brodie, heads an organisation which aims for 'the development of Franco-Scottish relations in a globalised world'.

MPs Tommy Shepherd and Joanna Cherry celebrated after the ruling of three senior Scottish judges that stated that the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament illegally
MPs Tommy Shepherd and Joanna Cherry celebrated after the ruling of three senior Scottish judges that stated that the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament illegally
It would be paranoid of me to suggest that Lord Brodie harbours dreams of reviving the Auld Alliance between Scotland and France, or indeed that any of their lordships has a private political agenda that might have affected their judgment in any way.

Nonetheless, it's a pity they did not heed the wise words of their judicial colleague, Lord Doherty, who last week dismissed the identical petition in a lower court in Edinburgh, brought by the same cross-party group of 79 politicians, the vast majority, if not all of whom, are avid Remainers.

This is what Lord Doherty said: 'The advice given [by the PM to the Queen] in relation to the prorogation decision is a matter involving high policy and political judgment.

'This is political territory and decision-making which cannot be measured against legal standards, but only by political judgments.'

In other words, unless a law has been broken - and in Lord Doherty's view it has not been — judges should not attempt to apply a legal yardstick to political decisions, whether they like them or not.

A very similar conclusion was drawn by three of the most senior judges of England and Wales last week in the High Court in respect of a case brought by anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller, and supported by former Prime Minister Sir John Major.

In their ruling they stated: 'We concluded that the decision of the Prime Minister was not justiciable [capable of being settled by law]. It is not a matter for the courts.'

They added that the advice given by Mr Johnson to the Queen was 'inherently political in nature and there are no legal standards against which to judge [its] legitimacy'.

Even if the Supreme Court finds against him, all that is likely to happen is that MPs would be recalled for the seven days of sittings which the Prime Minister's prorogation will otherwise deny them over the next five weeks.

The three Scottish judges yesterday arrived at a different view. Although I would be the last man on earth to suggest they were influenced to the slightest degree by their political opinions, it is striking how political in tone their ruling often sounds.

They infer, without adducing any evidence, that the Prime Minister's purpose in requesting a prorogation was 'to stymie parliamentary scrutiny' and 'impede Parliament'.

Very possibly it was, but where is their proof?

Conceivably we will learn more when their lordships publish their complete judgment tomorrow.

But many observers expect the Supreme Court to find against the Scottish court, and to endorse last week's High Court ruling, when it considers the matter next Tuesday.

Oh, I should have mentioned. A Northern Irish court is due to produce its own opinion today, and that will be thrown into the pot for consideration by the Supreme Court.

Isn't this all a maddening distraction and waste of time?

What is the benefit of so many learned judges, plus battalions of highly paid, disputatious lawyers, arguing whether or not Boris Johnson overstepped the mark?

Even if the Supreme Court finds against him, all that is likely to happen is that MPs would be recalled for the seven days of sittings which the Prime Minister's prorogation will otherwise deny them over the next five weeks.

Trivial

Some would claim a great victory for freedom, and joyously celebrate that the 'dictator' Johnson has been brought to heel.

Quite a dictator who can't even call a General Election when he wants to, and is forced by Parliament to write a letter to the EU he doesn't want to send!

I'm afraid overwrought Remainers who claim he is taking unprecedented liberties don't know what they are talking about. Sir John Major - hypocritical scourge of the PM - prorogued Parliament for 19 days in 1997 over a relatively trivial matter.

There was an even more sensational case in 1948, cited by the three senior judges in a full judgment published yesterday of their High Court decision last week against Gina Miller and Sir John.

Having noted that in the past 'prorogation has been used by the Government to gain a legislative and so political advantage', they recall how the post-war Labour administration employed the device to 'facilitate the speedy passage of what became the Parliament Act 1949'.

This measure had been bitterly opposed by Tory peers.

So it seems that when nice Clement Attlee, the then Prime Minister, prorogued Parliament for political gain, history exculpates him.

But when wicked, pro-Brexit Boris Johnson does the same thing, he is accused of constitutional vandalism, and reproached by Scottish judges.

Vitriol

For God's sake, can't we all calm down! I realise that some Remainers want to reverse Brexit, but they make themselves ridiculous, and simply increase divisions, when they talk about locking up the PM or call him a dictator.

What Boris Johnson might reasonably ask himself is whether it was worth provoking such a hullaballoo simply to deprive Parliament of seven sitting days.

The political vitriol he is experiencing far outweighs any gain.

In fact, the gain is probably zero, since the main point of proroguing Parliament was to stop MPs making him write a letter to Brussels to request an extension - which he has now got to do.

It hardly matters to him now whether the Commons is recalled or not.

Boris is very far from being a dictator - he is as much of a democrat as the next man - but his sense of strategy and forward-planning could certainly benefit from a little attention.

I pray the Supreme Court has the good sense next week to accept that what happened over prorogation is a matter of politics, not law, and that it will refuse to follow the three Scottish judges down the perilous path of political interference.

And then, perhaps, we could give Boris Johnson and the Government a chance of coming up with a deal that will honour the outcome of the referendum, and avoid the risk of plunging the country into a needless recession.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icked-her.html
 
Blackleaf
#51
Good to see the English have more respect for democracy than those bloody Scots...

Boost for Boris Johnson as ENGLISH judges say PM's Parliament shutdown CANNOT be legally challenged - hours after it was deemed illegal by Scottish court

Explaining why they threw out a case brought by Remainer Gina Miller, judges in London said proroguing Parliament on Monday was 'purely political' and 'not a matter for the courts'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hallenged.html
 
Blackleaf
#52
RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Put your trousers on, Boris - you're nicked! How partisan pipsqueak John Bercow has left the Prime Minister in danger of being arrested for trying to deliver Brexit

By Richard Littlejohn for the Daily Mail
9 September 2019

Nothing bears testament to the tenure of John Bercow in the Speaker’s chair as eloquently as the manner of his departure.

Yesterday’s vomit-inducing self-tribute was precisely what we have come to expect from this partisan pipsqueak, who has brought disgrace on one of the great offices of state.

Rather than remaining impartial, he has turned Parliament into the Bercow Show, bending the rules to breaking point to further his own political prejudices and assist Labour.


Bercow has allowed Parliament to pass a law which forbids Boris Johnson from taking Britain out of the EU on October 31 without a deal. Remainers are gloating that if Boris defies this law, as he swears he will, he can be arrested and jailed


No wonder that at the end of his boastful, lachrymose resignation announcement, he was given a standing ovation by the Opposition benches.

All but a handful of sycophants on the Conservative side of the House sat silently.

Who can blame them? Bercow has moved heaven and earth to stop Brexit. He has pitched Parliament against the people.

Most recently he has employed every trick in the book to help Remainers seize control of Commons business and paralyse the Government.


So what is supposed to happen now? Johnson is sticking to his pledge to leave on October 31, do or die. In that event, will the Speaker —in his last service to a grateful nation — call on Scotland Yard to take him into custody?


The Speaker has stood on its head the tried-and-tested relationship between Parliament and the executive.

Incredibly, shamefully, and against all constitutional precedent, he has engineered a crisis which could see a British Prime Minister sent to prison for trying to keep a solemn promise to the electorate.

Bercow has allowed Parliament to pass a law which forbids Boris Johnson from taking Britain out of the EU on October 31 without a deal.

Remainers are gloating that if Boris defies this law, as he swears he will, he can be arrested and jailed.


Nothing bears testament to the tenure of John Bercow in the Speaker’s chair as eloquently as the manner of his departure. Yesterday’s vomit-inducing self-tribute was precisely what we have come to expect from this partisan pipsqueak, who has brought disgrace on one of the great offices of state

Consider the enormity of this. The Prime Minister is facing prison if he dares to attempt implementing something which was promised in the General Election manifestos of both main parties, endorsed by Parliament, and — more importantly — voted for in a referendum by the largest single number of people in our history.

It’s the modern equivalent of Charles I being dragged into Whitehall and beheaded in 1649.

Which might seem far-fetched until you remember that Bercow reached back to a long-forgotten, archaic rule from 1604 in his demented quest to frustrate Brexit.

When I wrote about the madness gripping Westminster last week, even I couldn’t have foreseen that the Speaker and the Opposition would conspire to create circumstances in which the Prime Minister could have his collar felt for carrying out the will of the people.

Complete and utter lawyers like fanatical EU disciple Dominique Grieve and the Wicked Witch’s former sidekick Ken Macdonald, ex-head of the Crown Prosecution Service, say that Boris must be arrested if he defies the law.

But the law didn’t exist until about five minutes ago.

It was rushed through the House by Bercow, not as a long-overdue piece of legislation, but as a naked political device to banjax Brexit.

A Parliament which, under this Speaker, has spent three-and-a-quarter years deliberately failing to take Britain out of the EU, took less than a day introducing a law designed to stop us ever leaving.

So what is supposed to happen now? Johnson is sticking to his pledge to leave on October 31, do or die.

In that event, will the Speaker —in his last service to a grateful nation — call on Scotland Yard to take him into custody?


The Prime Minister is facing prison if he dares to attempt implementing something which was promised in the General Election manifestos of both main parties, endorsed by Parliament, and — more importantly — voted for in a referendum by the largest single number of people in our history

Will there be a dawn raid on Downing Street, complete with helicopters, dogs and an armed response unit?

Put your trousers on, Boris, you’re bleedin’ nicked!

How the hell did we end up here? As I said last week, we live in a Looking Glass world, in which words mean whatever politicians want them to mean.

Even worse, Bercow has so corrupted the office of Speaker he has decided rules mean whatever he wants them to mean. He has behaved more like an absolute monarch than a mere referee.

He is determined to stop Brexit come hell or high water and, although he announced his resignation yesterday, intends to be there at the death, to preside over Boris Johnson’s humiliation.

Just think, as this ghastly, conceited gargoyle is being carried out shoulder-high in triumph on October 31 by the massed ranks of opportunist Corbynistas, die-hard Remainers and Tory turncoats, our PM could be driven away in a Black Maria.

This will be Bercow’s legacy. This is how democracy dies.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/0...ith-democracy/
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#53
Brexit is a 'nightmare', says Luxembourg prime minister

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...p+news+stories


He is right , of course.
 
Blackleaf
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

Brexit is a 'nightmare', says Luxembourg prime minister
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...p+news+stories
He is right , of course.

He's right. It's a nightmare for the EU. Luxembourg will probably have to increase its tiny contribution to the budget now that mighty Britain is leaving.

Britain, meanwhile, will be much better off.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

He's right. It's a nightmare for the EU. Luxembourg will probably have to increase its tiny contribution to the budget now that mighty Britain is leaving.

Britain, meanwhile, will be much better off.

would you itemize the ways that Britain will be better off........from YOUR perspective.....and/or in general.
tks.
 
Blackleaf
+1
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

would you itemize the ways that Britain will be better off........from YOUR perspective.....and/or in general.
tks.

Happy to oblige, my good man.

We'd be at least £39 billion a year better off.

Most of our laws would actually be made by the British Parliament (imagine that).

There'd be no fee movement. All immigration will have limits and controls.

Top economists have said the British economy will boom after Brexit. They say that a No Deal scenario gives Britain a £651 billion boost while the EU would lose £507 billion.

A No Deal Brexit wil reduce UK food prices. Britain, with Europe's most efficient farmers, will no longer be paying into the CAP to subsidise inefficient French farmers.

The UK would regain control of her waters and ban French, Irish and Spanish fishing boats stealing her fish. EU membership has severely depletedd the UK's once-vast fishing fleet. Brexit will allow it to regrow.

Britain will, like most other sovereign states, have her own independent international trade policy, which she doesn't have as part of the EU.