High Ho it's off to the polls we go.


Trex
#1
So Count Iggy says he is no longer going to support the Harpo.

After voting in favor of dozens if not hundreds of Conservative bills the Libs have drawn yet another line in the sand.
No more trained seal shows from the Natural Ruling Party.

And Canadians could be going to the polls yet again.
Is this 5 times in 5 years?
Personally I am losing track.
But what I do know is that it costs taxpayers around $300 million every time.

It's an election virtually no rank and file Canadian's want.
My guess is that it will result in the lowest voter turn-outs in recorded Canadian history.
And virtually no change in seats or government.
So why would Iggy pull the plug?

Some political wonks are claiming Iggy is doing it just to cement his position within the party.
The reality is that the LP of C and its inner workings are somewhat distinct from Liberally elected MP's.
In other words Iggy could be calling an election just to solidify his position within the LP of C and to enable him to shuffle the chairs and organize his own shadow government choices.
Knowing full well that he has virtually no chance of forming a government.
And not caring that Canadian taxpayers will be on the hook for $300 million in order for him to perform an internal shuffle within LPC ranks.

Well, OK then.

If we do go to the polls in November there are not too many unknowns.
The major one in my view is Iggy and his potential speaking performances.
Iggy is a well educated academic.
As an experienced American University Prof he will be very skilled both in debate and public speaking.
I believe the possibility does exist that Iggy could smoke Harpo in public debate during an election campaign.
Harpo better be sharpening up his debating skills is all I can say.

So assuming we Canadians are off to the polls what will be the result apart from the lowest turnout in history?

In my opinion.
A Liberal majority: virtually impossible.
A Liberal minority: unlikely but possible.
A Conservative minority: either up a couple of seats or down a couple of seats, almost a sure thing.
A Conservative majority: unlikely but certainly more likely than a Liberal minority.

So the Bloc and maybe the Dippers loose a seat or two to the Libs.
And maybe the the Cons loose a seat or two to the Libs in the East and maybe pick up a seat or two in the hinterlands out West.

All that for $300 million.

Still the speeches should be a bit more exciting than a Maple Leafs game.

Trex
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#2
Not necessarily, Trex. Liberals have said that they won’t support the government any longer, that does not necessarily mean that the government will fall. Now it will depend upon NDP and Bloc.

Harper could work out a deal with either of them, make them some concessions in return for support in the Parliament. But any concession NDP would want likely will be more severe than anything Liberals would have wanted, so that possibility is remote. Harper could however, reach an accommodation with Bloc. He can make some concessions to Quebec, give it more power in return for Bloc support.

Even if Harper does not make any concession, NDP or Bloc may not think that they are ready for an election. In that case they will continue supporting the government even if there are no concessions.

So it is not at all clear that the government will fall.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#3
I agree with your assessment, Trex, it is either a Conservative minority or a Liberal minority.

There is only one way out of this deadlock, it looks like it could continue for several elections. Libs and NDP should declare before the campaigning starts, that after the election, they will try to form a coalition. Then after the election if Cons get only a minority, Libs and NDP could indeed form a coalition and assume power.

As to how long the coalition would last, who knows.
 
TenPenny
#4
Iggy is going to pay off the debt. Don't know how, it'll be a surprise, but trust him, he'll do it. At least that's what he said. Or something like that. Sort of. Maybe.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

Iggy is going to pay off the debt. Don't know how, it'll be a surprise, but trust him, he'll do it. At least that's what he said. Or something like that. Sort of. Maybe.

He said he won't lower it by raising taxes so obviously he has some Harvard magic up his sleeve.
 
AnnaG
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka View Post

He said he won't lower it by raising taxes so obviously he has some Harvard magic up his sleeve.

Same kind of magic as BC Glibs have, I guess. Or would it be miraculous?
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#7
Probably works very fine and well in the academic computer model which is the only experience king iggy has. Unfortunately reality rarely follows the computer model. If the Liberals force another waste of $300 mil on us without obtaining a solid majority they should have to reimburse taxpayers for the cost. Or perhaps the other way around would be better since politicians cannot be trusted.
All this petty squabbling is not helping fix the economy and when you live west of Ontario there is not much difference between the two parties anyway. And it is not like our votes count for much the way our electoral system is set up.
 
Tonington
#8
We wouldn't even be talking about an election right now if Harper hadn't made all votes in the House votes of confidence in the Government. We get the Government we deserve. Apparently we deserve these wastes of money, because we keep supporting the status quo...
 
Colpy
Conservative
#9
looking at the opposition, it seems to me it is well past time we got out and gave the Conservatives a majority government.......and see how they do with power.
 
Trex
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

Not necessarily, Trex. Liberals have said that they wonít support the government any longer, that does not necessarily mean that the government will fall. Now it will depend upon NDP and Bloc.

Harper could work out a deal with either of them, make them some concessions in return for support in the Parliament. But any concession NDP would want likely will be more severe than anything Liberals would have wanted, so that possibility is remote. Harper could however, reach an accommodation with Bloc. He can make some concessions to Quebec, give it more power in return for Bloc support.

Even if Harper does not make any concession, NDP or Bloc may not think that they are ready for an election. In that case they will continue supporting the government even if there are no concessions.

So it is not at all clear that the government will fall.

I agree SJP.
Right up to where you said Harpo could make concessionary agreements with the Bloq or the Dippers.
I just dont see that happening.
Why would he do that, after all he is still gunning for a majority.

The Bloc and the Dippers have more to loose in an election right now than the Libs do.
So why on earth should Iggy continue to do the seal thing and prop up a minority government.
If he takes a stand and votes against the Cons it then falls to the BQ and the ND's to prop up the government or go to the polls.
And lets face it even in a worse case scenario with a Con majority following an election Harpo will probably pull the taxpayer funded party per-vote subsidy which would in the long haul kill the BQ and actually advance the Libs.

I think they're going to go on the stump and the biggest potential loser are the ND's and the BQ.

Trex
 
Trex
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

I agree with your assessment, Trex, it is either a Conservative minority or a Liberal minority.

There is only one way out of this deadlock, it looks like it could continue for several elections. Libs and NDP should declare before the campaigning starts, that after the election, they will try to form a coalition. Then after the election if Cons get only a minority, Libs and NDP could indeed form a coalition and assume power.

As to how long the coalition would last, who knows.

I am assuming you threw the last bit about the Lib's and the Dippers out there for general debating purposes.
Because I view it as an idiotic idea at best.
Why not just merge the parties now?
Call it the Liberal Democratic Party or something.

A coalition in my view it would be absolute suicide for the LP of C.
It would mean the end.
The Liberals would shortly cease to exist and several future Con majorities would be assured.

What Liberal in his right mind would want to pimp out one of Canada's most historical parties in such a way?
Make no mistake one day in the future the Liberals will be back in power, why on earth would they flirt with the unelectable and unaccountable Dippers?
Jack for Finance Minister again?
Mother of God.
That massive group of bored and undecided voters would quickly become very decided.

Harpo botched that last Coup d etat attempt by the idiot Dion about as badly as it could be botched.
I think it totally blindsided him.
But he recovered and he wont be blindsided again.
If a coalition happened Harpo would instantly put us back to yet ANOTHER election.
And Canadians would get to vote on what they thought about unelected governments and unaccountable weasily politicians seizing the rudder of state against the wishes of the electorate.
And I think most of us know how that election would pan out.
And spare me all that debate about the GG getting to decide.
She is way too clever and far too loyal to the country to allow unelected coalitions to run Canada against the wishes of the majority.
It would be High Ho off we go again.

Trex
 
Polygong
#12
The role of the parties in a minority government is to work together to a fair compromise for the good of Canada.

Seems that all four sitting parties have forgotten that.

Oh how we should long for the days of Pearson/Standfield/Douglas...
 
Colpy
Conservative
#13
You know, Iggy had a chance with me.....

I thought, OMG! the guy shows promise! A History prof, supposedly with some sense of the flow of events and the ability to see clearly what is important to preserve....a man who spent his academic career in our two brother nations, Great Britain and the USA, a man who might understand our role in history, and the importance of solidarity in defense of the political and constitutional principles
of the English speaking peoples........someone of intelligence, someone in which the natural Canadian urge to wishy-washiness might have been modified by his stay in the USA...as evidenced by his support of US foreign policy.

All I wanted was a commitment to sanity in foreign policy, some indication that the man had something resembling a principle, and a hint of rationality on the gun control issue.... and I would have submitted, my relationship with Harper was, after all, on the rocks....he flirts too much, and makes me promises he never keeps.....

ALAS! What I discover is that Iggy has adopted the worst of American attitudes in his defense of torture, that he only ventured into Canada on the promise of being instantly elected Boss Man, that he has all the principles of a sewer rat (shown in the Great Coalition Fiasco) that he ascends to new levels of arrogance (even for a Liberal!), that suddenly he is a pacifist (!), and that he spent his 30 some years abroad "searching for Canada....which seems to me to indicate that he is an idiot as well......

So its pull up my panties, straighten my skirts, and its home to Harper i go!!!!!

Thank God this flirtation didn't go too far!!!!
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#14
And lets face it even in a worse case scenario with a Con majority following an election Harpo will probably pull the taxpayer funded party per-vote subsidy which would in the long haul kill the BQ and actually advance the Libs.

Trex, I heard that this year Liberals actually raised more money than Conservatives.
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#15
And spare me all that debate about the GG getting to decide.
She is way too clever and far too loyal to the country to allow unelected coalitions to run Canada against the wishes of the majority.


There is nothing undemocratic about coalitions, Trex; it is just that in Canada we are not used to them (we usually have a majority government). In Europe the coalitions are quite common.

If libs and NDP form a coalition, two scenarios are possible. They could to go GG and convince her that they have the majority support and Conservatives donít. In that case, GG can ask the coalition to form a government. The first act of the Parliament would be a confidence motion to test if the coalition has the majority support.

Or if Cons are the biggest party, she could invite Cons to form a government, which can be defeated in the Parliament in a no confidence motion. Then GG asks the coalition to form a government.

There is nothing undemocratic about coalitions. In most European countries they have proportional representation, so no party ever gets a majority; the government is always a coalition government.

If we continue to get minority governments, Canadians will have to learn to live with coalitions.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

I believe the possibility does exist that Iggy could smoke Harpo in public debate during an election campaign.

Ooooohhh A Harper/Iggy debate. With their personalities, it should be riveting. I haven't been this excited since I had a sandwich a half hour ago.
 
pegger
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

looking at the opposition, it seems to me it is well past time we got out and gave the Conservatives a majority government.......and see how they do with power.


Seeing what they've done so far - I'm not enough of a sadist ...
 
AlbertaBlue
Free Thinker
#18
I agree with Colpy, we need need a Conservative majority. Not because I support everything they do, but because I simply don't believe a single thing the Fibs have to say. I still remember Jean 'So a few million were stolen' Chretien, the sponsorship scandal, the HRDC boondoggle, and countless others, including the grand master of deception, Trudeau who continually told us one thing and said another.

Having said that, I totally disagreed with the Spending Stimulus, but understood fully why it was done. Now to hear Iggy complain about a deficit he demanded Harper have to have a spending stimulus is once again a hypocrite in action.

Plain and simple, this country does not need another election, but if we have one, then let's give Harper a majority so he can put his ideas out there for all of us to judge, without having to worry about the Fibs, Blocheads, or Diipper agendas. Enough is enough, Conservative majority for four years, then the people can get a really good idea of what the Conservative policies are, and if they don't like them, vote them out.

And the coalition was undemocratic a year ago, and nothing has changed. Coalition is treason, in my books. If the Fibs and Dips want to run as a coalition at the start of the campaign, make it clear, so everyone knows.

By the way, glad to be back after a few years absence!!!
 
Polygong
#19
We already have a good idea of what Conservative policy is all about, and it's very disturbing.

No Conservative governments until it's a Progressive Conservative government. This crop of Reformers isn't fooling anybody.
 
AlbertaBlue
Free Thinker
#20
Actually, we have NO idea of what the policies are, or how they might affect Canada, simply because the Conservatives have had to placate one of the opposition parties in order to stay in power.

Until they get a majority government, we will never know. Quite frankly, I am less afraid of them than the Libs, so let's try the Conservatives. The Dippers and Blocs have no chance, so ignore them.
 
Polygong
#21
We do know, the Reform Party platform has been known for years and was tried under Mike Harris in Ontario. It was a disaster and I'm far from keen to live through it again.
 
Nuggler
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

looking at the opposition, it seems to me it is well past time we got out and gave the Conservatives a majority government.......and see how they do with power.

Careful whatcha wish for, Colpy. Ain't no way to reign em in for 4 years, and they could do a lot of damage in that time. Might even appoint Geo. W to the senate

Personally, I hope for a Con minority. (same as now) They don't do a helluva lot, but it don't hurt too much either.

Iggy's an unknown. Not impressed.

LIbs.............mehhhhhhhhhhh. Shawinigate...................aww shyte.
Cons.................Mulroo....................... ....................aww shyte.

Hoonose?

NDP: a non starter.................
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#23
Wow, AlbertaBlue supporting Conservatives, a big surprise there. You claim that people should give Conservatives a majority, but surely you are not serious when you say that if people don’t like them, they can vote Conservatives out?

If people don’t like four years of Conservatives, which party do you suggest they vote for? Surely what you want is perpetual Conservative government, like you have in your beloved Alberta? Isn’t that the ultimate in paradise?
 
Nuggler
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

Wow, AlbertaBlue supporting Conservatives, a big surprise there. You claim that people should give Conservatives a majority, but surely you are not serious when you say that if people donít like them, they can vote Conservatives out?

If people donít like four years of Conservatives, which party do you suggest they vote for? Surely what you want is perpetual Conservative government, like you have in your beloved Alberta? Isnít that the ultimate in paradise?

Who TF are you talking to??
 
SirJosephPorter
No Party Affiliation
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

Who TF are you talking to??

I was replying to post No. 18 by AlbertaBlue, Nuggler.
 
Nuggler
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter View Post

I was replying to post No. 18 by AlbertaBlue, Nuggler.


jeez, ok. thanks. I thought someone might think I was from there.


 
earth_as_one
#27
Ignatieff lacks political acumen. He announces that he isn't going to support Harper, yet has no valid reason. Harper should have no problem portraying Ignatieff as irresponsibly wasting taxpayer's money on an election during a financial crisis and needless distracting the government.

Ignatieff shouldn't be PM. He might be bright, but he lacks common sense.

What he should have done is held a private meeting with onluy his most trusted advisors and came up with a plan which would lead to an election (if that what he wants) yet make it look like Harper was responsible and innocent Ignatieff was forced against his will to bring down the government despite his most sincere desire and best efforts to make the minority government work.

What an idiot.
 
Nuggler
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Ignatieff lacks political acumen. He announces that he isn't going to support Harper, yet has no valid reason. Harper should have no problem portraying Ignatieff as irresponsibly wasting taxpayer's money on an election during a financial crisis and needless distracting the government.

Ignatieff shouldn't be PM. He might be bright, but he lacks common sense.

What he should have done is held a private meeting with onluy his most trusted advisors and came up with a plan which would lead to an election (if that what he wants) yet make it look like Harper was responsible and innocent Ignatieff was forced against his will to bring down the government despite his most sincere desire and best efforts to make the minority government work.

What an idiot.


Alas, you are correct. Old time Libs (the ones with a secure, iron clad pension plus perks) are probably laughing their asses off at Iggy. Libs have always been faithful at eating their own.

But the stupid, arrogant, dipshyte, can't seem to see it coming.

Ah, well........t'was always thus.

Kiss your healthcare goodbye folks. You too will have the OPPORTUNITY to BUY it.
 
VanIsle
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

You know, Iggy had a chance with me.....

I thought, OMG! the guy shows promise! A History prof, supposedly with some sense of the flow of events and the ability to see clearly what is important to preserve....a man who spent his academic career in our two brother nations, Great Britain and the USA, a man who might understand our role in history, and the importance of solidarity in defense of the political and constitutional principles
of the English speaking peoples........someone of intelligence, someone in which the natural Canadian urge to wishy-washiness might have been modified by his stay in the USA...as evidenced by his support of US foreign policy.

All I wanted was a commitment to sanity in foreign policy, some indication that the man had something resembling a principle, and a hint of rationality on the gun control issue.... and I would have submitted, my relationship with Harper was, after all, on the rocks....he flirts too much, and makes me promises he never keeps.....

ALAS! What I discover is that Iggy has adopted the worst of American attitudes in his defense of torture, that he only ventured into Canada on the promise of being instantly elected Boss Man, that he has all the principles of a sewer rat (shown in the Great Coalition Fiasco) that he ascends to new levels of arrogance (even for a Liberal!), that suddenly he is a pacifist (!), and that he spent his 30 some years abroad "searching for Canada....which seems to me to indicate that he is an idiot as well......

So its pull up my panties, straighten my skirts, and its home to Harper i go!!!!!

Thank God this flirtation didn't go too far!!!!

"That he only ventured into Canada on the promise of being the Boss Man". Have any of you considered that Ignatieff realizes he is never going to be the Boss Man and wants to head HOME so he calls an election, loses, quits and leaves.
And btw - Harper has already stated that he does not feel the NDP will actually back the Conservative Party.
 
aman12
Liberal
#30
S the right wingers slag Ignatieff for being a coward and supporting the government then slag him for not supporting Harper. They complain that Harper was forced to apply the stimulus and the cry that it is not the time for an elction so that the stimulus can be given time to work. SJP is right, they just want perpetual Con rule like in Alberta.
 

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