Venezuela 'to buy more weapons'


I think not
#1
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has told a huge rally of supporters that he wants to buy more weapons to defend his country from invasion.

Speaking in the capital Caracas, Mr Chavez said 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles already on order from Russia were not enough.

Venezuela needed a million well-armed men and women, he said.

Mr Chavez also likened US President George W Bush to the German Nazi leader, Adolf Hitler.

Diplomatic relations between Venezuela and the US have been strained, but they worsened earlier this week when both countries expelled one another's diplomats after Caracas accused the US embassy of spying.

The Venezuelan government has repeatedly accused Washington of trying to destabilise President Chavez - an allegation rejected by US officials.

'Defend our fatherland'

The BBC's Greg Morsbach in Caracas says the rally - to celebrate a failed coup led by Mr Chavez in 1992 - got off to a militaristic start, with a bugler heralding the arrival of President Chavez at the podium.

Wearing his trademark red army beret, Mr Chavez said Washington was considering invading Venezuela.

"I ask for permission ... to buy another cargo of arms because the gringos want us unarmed. We have to defend our fatherland," he said.

"Venezuela needs to have one million well-equipped and well-armed men and women."

Last year the US tried to block the sale of 12 Spanish military planes to Venezuela that were made with US technology.

But Madrid recently said it would go ahead with the sale using more expensive European parts.

'Inflammatory rhetoric'

Turning to oil, the president said if the Bush administration wished to cut diplomatic ties to Venezuela, he would have no second thoughts about closing all the Venezuelan refineries in the US.

"Let's see what'll happen to the price of crude oil then", Mr Chavez told his audience.

He said the US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had been wrong last week to compare the Venezuelan president with Adolf Hitler:

"The imperialist, genocidal, fascist attitude of the US president has no limits. I think Hitler would be like a suckling baby next to George W Bush."

Washington is deeply opposed to the government of left-wing Mr Chavez, who is a vocal critic of the US.

The US has expressed concerns about Venezuelan democracy under Mr Chavez and about the effect of his government's military purchases on regional stability.

But the US has not said it will break off relations with Venezuela, and correspondents say Washington has dismissed threats by Mr Chavez as inflammatory rhetoric aimed at his core supporters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4682488.stm
 
aeon
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

Mr Chavez also likened US President George W Bush to the German Nazi leader, Adolf Hitler.

Diplomatic relations between Venezuela and the US have been strained, but they worsened earlier this week when both countries expelled one another's diplomats after Caracas accused the US embassy of spying.

The Venezuelan government has repeatedly accused Washington of trying to destabilise President Chavez - an allegation rejected by US officials.

'Defend our fatherland'

I honestly like chavez, he is a leader who isnt afraid to tell other what he really think, of course in the past he wasnt perfect, he has a strange military background, besides that nobody can say anything bad on him.He has done a lot for the poverty in venuzuela, something that the bush administration do the opposite.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#3
I would argue that His Excellency the Honourable Hugo Chavez , the President of Venezuela , should not be punished for having voiced concerns regarding the Administration of the United States . Both countries should deeply regret having expelled each others' diplomats to do so is irresponsible in terms of maintaining peaceful and friendly relations.
 
I think not
#4
I would assert Chavez has joined GWB's asshole club.
 
I think not
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

I honestly like chavez, he is a leader who isnt afraid to tell other what he really think

Yeah, Castro had the same spunk.

Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

of course in the past he wasnt perfect, he has a strange military background, besides that nobody can say anything bad on him.

Strange military background? Like launching an unsuccessfyl coup and killing a few people in the process? Nah, aside from that, he's a nice guy.

Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

He has done a lot for the poverty in venuzuela, something that the bush administration do the opposite.

Hey, you got one
 
Huck
#6
I dont think we can blame chavez for arming. After all, all other countries do. He has oil on his land, and no one can deny this is a center of intereest for western powers.


I would suggest you download and watch the video called: "the revolution will not be televised". I dont endorse it, but simply use it to help build your opinion. I personally dont trust the USA and canadian governemnts and the media to tell me who is chavez and if he is good or bad.

http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3357937

Truth is that we dont know the truth. We can gather bits and pieces, but thats it. In his country, the rich and powerful are against him becuase of his social reforms, and they control what information goes out. So lets be careful before judging him. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not.
 
TenPenny
#7
I like the public spat between Chavez and Bush; meanwhile, CITGO keeps selling gasoline......it's all a farce, isn't it?
 
JoeyB
#8
Ma-til-da she take me money and run Venezuela...
 
I think not
#9
If Americans have the right to bear arms, most certainly the people of Venezuala do. In the interim, like TenPenny mentioned, CITGO gas flows uninterupted in the "evil empire".
 
Huck
#10
Venezuela's problem is not to sell oil, but the reforms chavez put into place that displeases the benefitors of oil. The state owned oil company in venezuela was run like a private corporation, profiting a few in the country (like everywhere else, canada and USA included, right?). After comming to power, chavez decided to make the oil extraction completely public, using the hefty profits to invest in social programs and help the many poor. This made the rich and thick layer of venezuela's society mad and then begun the problems with the USA.

CITGO's oil flows, thats normal, the question is who will get the profits...
 
I think not
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Huck

Venezuela's problem is not to sell oil, but the reforms chavez put into place that displeases the benefitors of oil. The state owned oil company in venezuela was run like a private corporation, profiting a few in the country (like everywhere else, canada and USA included, right?). After comming to power, chavez decided to make the oil extraction completely public, using the hefty profits to invest in social programs and help the many poor. This made the rich and thick layer of venezuela's society mad and then begun the problems with the USA.

CITGO's oil flows, thats normal, the question is who will get the profits...

Expropriations, retroactive tax hikes and Marxist rhetoric is the problem. Giving to his poor never was. He is distancing foreign investments and he will soon see that the oil he is sitting on won't make a dam difference.
 
Huck
#12
expropriations, retroactive tac hikes: that's nothing we haven't seen here to.

as for the marxist thought, no one can definitively assert if this is good or bad. Im no communist, but i know that in certain cases, it can benefit some that capitalism would forget.


I suspect we may all be right, all having a piece of a greater puzzle. The thing is that we dont have the gand picture. I'm not sure we have all the facts...
 
I think not
#13
The only facts I see is Venezuela aligning themselves with the likes of North Korea, Syria, Iran and Cuba. That's enough fact for me.
 
Huck
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

The only facts I see is Venezuela aligning themselves with the likes of North Korea, Syria, Iran and Cuba. That's enough fact for me.

I see the same thing, but says who? Isn't that what western governments would like us to think? It's quite convinient to have another axis of evil in northern sourth-america.

Venezuela was doing fine with public opinion, even with chavez, until he decided to 'nationalise' his oil. 80% of the population was starving, and that was fine with the west. He instanted a new constitution for his country, instated public services that benefit all, and does some fine things. He IS supported by most but the rich. Now that he clashes the west on resources, we are told he is an evil dicator.

Maybe he is, but i would like proof; and CNN doesn't make it as a trustable information source for me.
 
I think not
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Huck

I see the same thing, but says who? Isn't that what western governments would like us to think? It's quite convinient to have another axis of evil in northern sourth-america

It is hardly convenient Huck, if Chavez starts moving more towards the fringe left and begins thumping his nuclear chest, who do you think is going to foot the bill getting rid of him? The UN? Everybody is under the impression the US has to control everything and everyone, that's horse shit, Lula in Brazil is a moderate socialist, he doesn't run around Latin America proclaiming himself to be the new Che, has anybody bothered him? No. He is making huge strides though for his people.

Chavez right now is under the microscope, if and when he twitches too much, he's history, and I can care less what the world thinks quite honestly, if the US and its allies had listened to the leftist nutjobs that think socialism is an earthly paradise we would all be singing the Soviet anthem. Even today, the same nutjobs hope and wish China crushes America, economically preferably, militarily, just as good in their mind. China has a bone to pick with Taiwan and Japan. I just hope the US will be ready when the time comes.
 
Numure
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not


Expropriations, retroactive tax hikes and Marxist rhetoric is the problem. Giving to his poor never was. He is distancing foreign investments and he will soon see that the oil he is sitting on won't make a dam difference.

As long as the majority of Venezuelans are happy, we have nothing to say.
 
Huck
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

It is hardly convenient Huck, if Chavez starts moving more towards the fringe left and begins thumping his nuclear chest, who do you think is going to foot the bill getting rid of him? The UN? [...]


i think you would be right, if there was no interrest at stake. If really venezuela was a meaningless country, like so many others, and the USA were building up like this to eventually save the country, i would agree with you. But, truth is that chavez is the guardian of interresting resources, and this annoys the USA. No one 'needs' to expect the USA to straighten up chavez, the USA have to do it if they want to protext their interrest.

Again, the is no altruism here, its all for money, resource and power; on both sides.
 
I think not
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Huck

i think you would be right, if there was no interrest at stake. If really venezuela was a meaningless country, like so many others, and the USA were building up like this to eventually save the country, i would agree with you. But, truth is that chavez is the guardian of interresting resources, and this annoys the USA. No one 'needs' to expect the USA to straighten up chavez, the USA have to do it if they want to protext their interrest.

Again, the is no altruism here, its all for money, resource and power; on both sides.

Chavez recently renegotiated oil royalties with all the oil companies in Venezuela, so that is a done deal. The flow of oil continues. I don't care if he takes the money and gives it to his people, that's not insane, that's perfectly reasonable. What he does domestically isn't of any concern.

When he aligns himself with known threats internationally, it becomes a concern. If he gets too radical internationally while sitting on billions of barrels of oil that can "fund" little Che style revolutions, don't expect the US to remain silent about it.

Castro did the same thing in Latin America, little revolutions here and there trying to implant socialist regimes, until the Soviet Union collapsed and out went his funding, this isn't the case with Chavez.
 
Huck
#19
What threat does chavez pose to the super powerful USA?
 
I think not
#20
You're not listening Huck.
 
thulin
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

I honestly like chavez, he is a leader who isnt afraid to tell other what he really think

To bad there is a difference between "saying" and "doing".

The guy is an empty bucket, he belongs in kindergarden where he can live out his lifelong dream of beeing the biggest bully in the pit.

Been there, have relatives in Venezuela.
 
Huck
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

You're not listening Huck.

i understand you point NTM. And to be frank, i dont give a rat's ass what happens to chavez. Where i have a problem is with how convininent it is to have a hateable figure in venezuela, at the present time. But, i guess we can not resolve this issue by discussing about it, especially that the ackoledged 'facts' we find in mass media all point in the direction of an evil despot leader.


I suggest you watch the video i posted before in this thread. The video is an hour long and easy listeining, you can get it free on BT. It does bring interreting questions to the table. After watching it, perhaps you will be as unsure as i am as to who to trust...

but again we will probably never really know...
 
Huck
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by thulin

Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

I honestly like chavez, he is a leader who isnt afraid to tell other what he really think

To bad there is a difference between "saying" and "doing".

The guy is an empty bucket, he belongs in kindergarden where he can live out his lifelong dream of beeing the biggest bully in the pit.

Been there, have relatives in Venezuela.


So do i, i have good friends with me at the very moment that are venezuelans. But, the thing is that even the venezuelans dont have a clue about the real truth, the medias are private owned and have been know to lie. There are many reports of journalists quitting over there because they were told what to say, even if they knew it was false. The people then listen evening news and you can understand what comes next.

again, i you want to know more, check the video i suggested above. (sorry for repeating about it, but it is a key element in discussions about venezuela)
 
thulin
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Huck

What threat does chavez pose to the super powerful USA?

None. Just like Cuba/Castro he opposes little or no threat to no others than the countrys citizens.
 
Toro
#25
"The imperialist, genocidal, fascist attitude of the US president has no limits. I think Hitler would be like a suckling baby next to George W. Bush."

Huge Chavez
Saturday. February 4, 2006

Reuters
 
Huck
#26
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rev..._(documentary)
 
thulin
#27
Actually, Id say Chavez way of coming to - and keeping - the power, reminds of that of Adolf Hitler.


Plaza Altamira, Caracas. Those people dont live there because they want to, they are afraid of going home alone...

Venezuela is a dictatorship, elections have been rigged.
 
Huck
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro

"The imperialist, genocidal, fascist attitude of the US president has no limits. I think Hitler would be like a suckling baby next to George W. Bush."

Huge Chavez
Saturday. February 4, 2006

I dont mean to support chavez, but in a way this quote about is true. Instead of massively investing in healthcare, education, etc. bush would rather boost the millitary, which in turn only creates more problems. Bush himself publicly declared he was a 'war preseident' which traslated means he is ready to kill for a reasons valid to his government. This is hitler like thinking and certainly not something that will help make the world a better place.

fighting fire with fire will not extinguish it.
 
Huck
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by thulin

Venezuela is a dictatorship, elections have been rigged.

Well, considering what we heard about the scam of the 2000 elections, so are the USA
 
I think not
#30
Huck, in the other thread you found the video on China scary and exclaimed you would rather have 10 American empires than one Chinese empire, think about that before making statements of comparing Bush with Hitler, I have yet to see "fags" being shot in public.
 

Similar Threads

54
venezuela becomes number 1
by cortezzz | Aug 4th, 2018
1
Venezuela Behind on Payments
by EagleSmack | May 30th, 2009
83
US screwing around in Venezuela?
by mrmom2 | May 14th, 2005