RCAF Chinooks being prepared for Mali mission


Murphy
#1
The boys are making preparations for the Mali mission. Our people are top notch. I wish them the best.
---

RCAF Chinooks being prepared for Mali mission - African troops from UN force face casualties from IEDs
- David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen


This is a Chinook.

Canadian helicopter crews and support personnel are headed to Mali and while there are dangers associated with any operation they have a much better chance of avoiding casualties than do the United Nations soldiers from Africa who are being killed on the ground, says a defence analyst who just finished working with the United Nations.

Canada announced Monday it would send two RCAF Chinook helicopters from the military base at Petawawa, Ont. as well as four armed Griffon helicopters to act as escorts for those larger aircraft. There will also be support personnel for the helicopters being sent to Mali, a country that since 2013 has been dealing with insurgents and armed Islamic extremists.

Of the 164 military personnel killed in the Mali mission, 71 were from accidents or from illnesses, according to the Department of National Defence.

“Most (combat) fatalities are for African troops in vehicles hit by IEDs,” said Walter Dorn, a professor at the Royal Military College who has just returned from Africa where he was conducting research for the UN. IED refers to improvised explosive device or roadside bombs.

Well-equipped western forces have a much better chance of survival, he added.

The bulk of the 11,400-member force is made up of UN troops from African and Asian nations such as Bangladesh, Burkina Faso, Chad, Niger, Senegal and Togo.

“The lack of armoured personnel carriers, including mine protected vehicles, remain a major obstacle to the mission’s operations,” warned a UN report published Dec. 26.

Last month four UN soldiers in Mali were killed and four others wounded when their vehicle hit an IED. The day before six Malian soldiers were killed in a similar blast. In November 2017 a UN convoy was ambushed, with four soldiers killed and sixteen wounded. In September, three UN soldiers were killed and five injured after their vehicle hit an IED.

Canadian government sources say Canadian military personnel are not expected to conduct extensive travel on the country’s dangerous roadways and most will either be operating aircraft or supporting those helicopters from an airbase.

No helicopters have been shot down by insurgents, Dorn noted.

But there has been four fatalities as a result of helicopter crashes because of technical or mechanical issues. In March 2015 a Dutch Apache attack helicopter crashed in northern Mali, killing its two crew members.

In July 2017 a German military Tiger helicopter crashed in the north of the country, killing two on board. Issues with the helicopter’s autopilot have been blamed for the incident.

In July 2016 two Dutch soldiers assigned to the UN mission in Mali died during a training exercise when a faulty mortar round prematurely exploded. A Dutch investigation determined that stocks of old mortar rounds were being used. The older munitions had been purchased with the help of the Pentagon in a rush to supply the Dutch mission but proper safety procedures were not followed. In October 2017, Dutch Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis took responsibility for the accident and resigned.

Asked Monday about the potential for Canadian casualties, Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland said the government was aware of the “difficulties of the situation in Mali.”

RCAF Chinooks being prepared for Mali mission – African troops from UN force face casualties from IEDs | Ottawa Citizen
 
Curious Cdn
+1
#2
Good luck, boys and girls! Come back safe and whole and try to make Mali a slightly better place, if you can.

(p.s. Try to bring the helicopters back without too many dents in them. They're not paid for, yet.)
 
darkbeaver
+2
#3  Top Rated Post
The recolonization and rape of African resources is important for bankers and murderers but has absolutely nothing to do with the wellfare of Canadians.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#4
Your folks are great! I wish them the very best of luck.

But the Chinook? Oh, dear. They're gonna need the luck. Buggiest aircraft ever.
 
Murphy
#5
I used to think that as well, but these are newer, improved 147Fs. Thank goodness.

CH-147F Chinook | Helicopter | Aircraft | Royal Canadian Air Force
 
Curious Cdn
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Your folks are great! I wish them the very best of luck.

But the Chinook? Oh, dear. They're gonna need the luck. Buggiest aircraft ever.

They are sending our underpowered Gryphon Bell Hueys to escort them, configured as helicopter gunships. The Chinooks might end up escorting the Gryphons.
Last edited by Curious Cdn; Mar 22nd, 2018 at 07:42 PM..
 
Murphy
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Your folks are great! I wish them the very best of luck.

But the Chinook? Oh, dear. They're gonna need the luck. Buggiest aircraft ever.

They were purchased in 2013/2014. Click on tech specs.

CH-147F Chinook | Helicopter | Aircraft | Royal Canadian Air Force
 
Danbones
#8
Can't shoot it down if it doesn't fly...

...also helpful for anti theft purposes too.

As far as support goes, there was a roomer that support girders might be sent...in order to give the support staff some rest. Supporting those old machines is hard on the arms.
 
Murphy
#9
Nothing beats that new chopper smell.

Great video.

https://vimeo.com/95031117
 
Hoid
#10
I question if they can come up with 260 aircrew for this asshat mission
 
Curious Cdn
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

Nothing beats that new chopper smell.

Great video.

https://vimeo.com/95031117

Not only is this a new chopper, it's a new kind of chopper, landing in downtown Montreal (FFH-336).

http://youtu.be/ouRVMNZEs-o
 
Murphy
#12
That's a Cyclone, not a Chinook. Cyclones are ghost choppers.
 
Curious Cdn
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

That's a Cyclone, not a Chinook. Cyclones are ghost choppers.

Cyclones are the newest of the new. If they're anything like the last generation of shipboard Sikorsky helicopters, they'll still be flying when our grandchildren are collecting pensions.
 
Murphy
#14
I was still serving with the military when they were ordered. The delays were pitiful. The guys in Halifax used to joke about someone spotting a ghost chopper flying around the harbour. 28 were ordered in 2004. As if 2018, we have 11. That's pitiful.

CH-148 Cyclone purchase | Aircraft | Canadian Armed Forces

Back to the Chinooks. At least these are flying and are being used. Now in Mali.
 
justlooking
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

But there has been four fatalities as a result of helicopter crashes because of technical or mechanical issues. In March 2015 a Dutch Apache attack helicopter crashed in northern Mali, killing its two crew members.

In July 2017 a German military Tiger helicopter crashed in the north of the country, killing two on board. Issues with the helicopterís autopilot have been blamed for the incident.


They are crashing from the heat.



Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

(p.s. Try to bring the helicopters back without too many dents in them. They're not paid for, yet.)

I doubt they are coming back.

Quote:

Mali too hot for half of Bundeswehr MINUSMA vehicles

Bundeswehr service vehicles can't take Mali's heat, a German newspaper reported. According to the daily, only about half of German military vehicles sent to a UN base in the West African desert are still running.


Mali too hot for half of Bundeswehr MINUSMA vehicles | News | DW | 19.04.2017

Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

They are sending our underpowered Gryphon Bell Hueys to escort them, configured as helicopter gunships. The Chinooks might end up escorting the Gryphons.

The Chinooks will be flying alone.
But it's ok, after all it's a 'peacekeeping' mission, no one will be shooting at them


Quote:

Suitability for role

The CH-146 was purchased by the CF to replace four existing helicopters, the CH-136 Kiowa in the observation role, the CH-135 Twin Huey in the army tactical role, the CH-118 Iroquois in the base rescue role and the heavy lift CH-147 Chinook. From the time of its purchase defence analysts have been critical of the aircraft pointing to its procurement as politically motivated and that the aircraft cannot adequately fill any of its intended roles. It has been termed "a civilian designed and built aircraft, with only a coat of green paint."[18] [19]
Writing in 2006 defence analyst Sharon Hobson said:

The Griffon helicopter has become almost a laughing stock. It is underpowered for the transport role the army needs it to play, and itís too big for a reconnaissance role. At a time when the Canadian Forces are thirsting for equipment, itís telling that about 20 of the Griffons have been parked.[18]
The CH-146 was ruled out for the Afghan mission by General Rick Hillier when he was Chief of Defence Staff in 2008 due to being underpowered. It has also been criticised for being underpowered by Martin Shadwick, a defence analyst and professor at York University. Shadwick stated in July 2009:[20]
Its engines are fine for most domestic requirements in Canada and a more moderate temperature, but [the Griffon] doesn't really have the horsepower to reach its full potential in a place like Afghanistan.[20]



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_CH-146_Griffon

Mali is hotter than Afghanistan.






Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

I question if they can come up with 260 aircrew for this asshat mission

Women, lots of women, this is the priority for the Lieberals.
 
Murphy
#16
I don't know about all the crashes, but the German Tiger was an improperly set autopilot.
 
taxslave
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by hoid View Post

i question if they can come up with 260 aircrew for this asshat mission

idiot
 
Cannuck
#18
Thanks Justin
 
Dixie Cup
+1
#19
Were it a true "peace" mission, I would support it but it's not. Our guys and gals are in for a rough ride I hope and pray they come back safely but if they don't, it's all on Trudeau!!


JMHO
 
Jinentonix
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Dixie Cup View Post

Were it a true "peace" mission, I would support it but it's not. Our guys and gals are in for a rough ride I hope and pray they come back safely but if they don't, it's all on Trudeau!!


JMHO

Agreed. I always thought the job of Peacekeepers was to keep an already established peace even if it's just an uneasy peace, not jump smack into the middle of a full-on shootin' war. It makes it extremely difficult for the Peacekeepers who have to deal with the UN's suffocating ROE.
 
captain morgan
#21
Peace Keeper was the rule under Harper.

JT prefers war monger
 
Murphy
#22
Our role has changed. We used to do the UN peacekeeping thing, but nowadaze the troops are sent in while the fighting is still going on.
 
Curious Cdn
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

Our role has changed. We used to do the UN peacekeeping thing, but nowadaze the troops are sent in while the fighting is still going on.

That's a big difference and the Rules of Engagement have to reflect the danger that our men and women may be sent to face.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Peace Keeper was the rule under Harper.

JT prefers war monger

That's the Yanks' job!
 
Murphy
#25
You can go after the N. Koreans.

The US tariffs are just to get the Chinese thinking about taking out NK. Trump has already suggested they open Chinese dollar stores there.
 
Curious Cdn
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

You can go after the N. Koreans.

The US tariffs are just to get the Chinese thinking about taking out NK. Trump has already suggested they open Chinese dollar stores there.

The art of the deal: "You take out Kim Jung Un and you can have unencumbered access to our wonton market."
Last edited by Curious Cdn; Mar 23rd, 2018 at 09:12 PM..
 
Murphy
#27
It's the government's responsibility to adequately explain both to Parliament and Canadians why CF personnel and equipment are being sent on missions. The Liberals did not do that and are taking flack for it.
---

Liberals dropped ball on explaining Mali mission to Canadians: Diplomats

Foreign diplomats are frustrated with how the Trudeau government announced that Canada will send military helicopters to Mali
by The Canadian Press

OTTAWA Ė Foreign diplomats are frustrated about the way the Trudeau government handled this weekís announcement that Canada will send military helicopters to Mali.

The concern isnít that Canada has committed to the peacekeeping mission; that decision has been greeted with relief-tinged applause after years of perceived footdragging by the Liberals.

Canada plans to send six helicopters to Mali for up to 12 months where they provide medical evacuations and transport to UN troops and supplies as needed.

But the diplomats feel the government failed to explain why the mission is needed ó or that the Canadians will be relatively safe compared with the thousands of other peacekeepers working across the country.

Their fear is that the government has allowed incorrect information to spread, which threatens to undermine Canadian public support for what they say is a critical mission.

The diplomats say the Canadians will live with little risk of attack in a well-defended base manned by Belgian and Dutch guards and that the helicopters are urgently needed to ensure the missionís success.

The Opposition Conservatives have demanded a debate on the mission, many details of which, including when the helicopters will be deployed and how many troops will go with them, remain up in the air.

Liberals dropped ball on explaining Mali mission to Canadians: Diplomats - Macleans.ca
 
captain morgan
#28
Liberals dropped ball on explaining Mali mission to Canadians: Diplomats - Macleans.ca

Libs aren't too fond of esplainin' anything to us plebes.

... Remind you of the Khadr payout?
 
Curious Cdn
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Liberals dropped ball on explaining Mali mission to Canadians: Diplomats - Macleans.ca

Libs aren't too fond of esplainin' anything to us plebes.

... Remind you of the Khadr payout?

They haven't figured it out, themselves. We're probably sending our military into Mali because of the outcome of some focus group of the smug, warm fuzzies that Canadians get from all of the "Peacekeeping" that we've done in the world.
 

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