At last, some adults have entered the room


Blackleaf
#1
The stark warning from prime minister Boris Johnson at his press conference last week – where he said that many more deaths will occur as a result of Covid-19 – was responsible, realistic and necessary.

This was a PM being an actual leader: visible, telling the truth, and saying what needs to be said, not what is politically expedient.

The importance of this cannot be stressed enough. This is grown-up politics, the like of which we have not seen for quite a while. Instead of backroom decisions being made between politicians and faceless experts, this was leadership being done publicly and openly, where the fine balance between expertise and political decision-making was there for all to see.

Most importantly, it revealed a political leader who stands out in one critical way: unlike his predecessors, he seems to respect the demos...


At last, some adults have entered the room

The UK government’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic has been admirable and democratic.

Norman Lewis
16th March 2020
Spiked



The stark warning from prime minister Boris Johnson at his press conference last week – where he said that many more deaths will occur as a result of Covid-19 – was responsible, realistic and necessary.

This was a PM being an actual leader: visible, telling the truth, and saying what needs to be said, not what is politically expedient.

The importance of this cannot be stressed enough. This is grown-up politics, the like of which we have not seen for quite a while. Instead of backroom decisions being made between politicians and faceless experts, this was leadership being done publicly and openly, where the fine balance between expertise and political decision-making was there for all to see.

Most importantly, it revealed a political leader who stands out in one critical way: unlike his predecessors, he seems to respect the demos. He is treating us like adults who can stand to hear hard news, and whose reason can be appealed to as we deal with this deeply concerning medical crisis.

The contrasts in behaviour highlighted by the Covid-19 crisis are striking. The biggest contrast is that between ordinary people and investors. The public have accepted the sober reality of coronavirus and the possible disruption it will bring to their lives in the coming months. They have remained calm and reasoned – reassured, perhaps, by the existence of a coherent government plan of action. Investors and stock markets, on the other hand, are in a state of free-falling panic. They are behaving like hysterical children rather than rational adults.

Consider also the contrast in terms of how people understand and appreciate expertise. The role of science and experts has been brought into sharp relief in recent days. Boris Johnson says he is allowing himself to be guided ‘by the science’. But some scientists have questioned his strategy and asked why he isn’t trying to stop Covid-19 altogether by institutionalising the kind of draconian lockdowns and social distancing we’ve seen in other countries.

The anti-Tory ‘liberal’ media and the middle-class social-media warriors are demanding that ‘something must be done’. They have almost gone so far as to demand that the government ignore the advice of its own scientific experts because they want more drastic action.

Effectively, they are saying the government has the wrong experts. ‘Replace them with experts we agree with’, they are essentially saying. Once again, these people think they know what is best for the rest of us.

They need to understand the adult world of science and risk management. What Johnson and his experts communicated well at their press conference was that science is open-ended and there are no risk-free options when dealing with something that is still not completely known. There is no such thing as ‘the science’ – a term so frequently used in relation to climate change these days.

More importantly, it is good for society to see scientists disagree. Seeing these differences take place in public is reassuring. It reveals that the truth is elusive; that it is a constant struggle between expertise, evidence, observation, learning and updating assumptions and theses.

These public disagreements reveal that true expertise is a quest, a never-ending journey for new knowledge and insight, rather than for a destination; that experts are serious, well-meaning individuals driven by knowledge and a passion to get it right, not sages with answers whom we should simply bow to because they claim the mantle of expert.

With its statements and actions in recent days, the government is helping to educate the public about expertise and about how democracy ought to work. By treating us as equals, as reasoning beings, it is actually ensuring that we are able to manage our experience of risk and develop more of an understanding of the complexities involved in a crisis like this. This is responsible democracy in action.

This is not simply a question of holding their feet to fire if their approach proves ineffective. No one knows what will work best at this point. Everyone is struggling to get this right. No, this is about understanding the nature of the medical crisis, the parameters involved, and why certain decisions and timings are judged to be appropriate at different points in time. The idea that many more people contracting the virus will build up more immunity is such a decision. It may be a difficult point to accept. But given that we know that Covid-19 is not a mortal threat to at least 80 to 90 per cent of the population (on this there appears to be a global consensus), this decision makes sense in the absence of vaccines or medicines to deal with this new coronavirus.

The most terrible thing to have happened so far is the media’s stirring-up of the fallacious idea that contracting the virus is an automatic death sentence. This has led to the erroneous notion that all contraction should be prevented: an impossible task, as was stressed by the government’s experts.

The UK government’s use of reason rather than draconian management is, so far, correct. But there is always the temptation to move towards a more authoritarian approach, especially in the face of the media clamour for more action and stock-market hysteria. That route has got to be vigorously resisted, unless, of course, evidence emerges that makes a change necessary. A more draconian approach would fundamentally alter the relationship between government, experts and the demos in ways that are potentially far worse than the effects of Covid-19. If people are forced by law to self-isolate, to distance themselves from others, to accept lockdowns and the loss of freedom of movement, this will deprive them of the moral autonomy to make their own decisions, both in the interests of themselves and their families and in the interests of society.

Compulsion does not enhance individual responsibility – it diminishes it. In common with other coercive or paternalistic state policies, compulsory diktat devalues the independence of the mature citizen. Ultimately, the likely consequence would be less social cooperation and less compliance. This will severely hamper, not enhance, our ability to defeat the virus.

Treating the demos as adults is not a luxury, a ‘nice’ adjunct to technocratic managerialism. It is the core pillar of society and the best foundation of the strategy we need in order to withstand this severe medical crisis.

Norman Lewis works on innovation networks and is a co-author of Big Potatoes: The London Manifesto for Innovation.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/0...ered-the-room/
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#2
Norman Lewis works on innovation networks

Then he should shut the Fuk up about stuff he does NOT understand.

This kind of azzhole is why MORE people are going to die, not less.

And I suppose you think this tool is absolutely right, Blackie, that the Covid19 isn't a 'automatic death sentence' and BoJo is doing the best thing for Britain?
 
Blackleaf
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Then he should shut the Fuk up about stuff he does NOT understand.


How do you know what he understands and what he doesn't?


Quote:

And I suppose you think this tool is absolutely right, Blackie, that the Covid19 isn't a 'automatic death sentence' and BoJo is doing the best thing for Britain?


Yes. Definiely.
 
Blackleaf
#4
The Johnson Administration is proving to be highly impressive in the handling of the coronavirus outbreak, especially compared to many other European governments.

But there's hardly any other member of the British Government that is proving to be more impressive than the new Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak...

HENRY DEEDES: Pass the Kleenex! Chancellor Rishi Sunak has nitrogen in his blood... but oozes compassion

Coronavirus symptoms: what are they and should you see a doctor?

By Henry Deedes for the Daily Mail
21 March 2020

Tennis aficionados used to insist that Bjorn Borg had ice in his blood.

The bigger the challenge, it was said, the better the Swede used to play.

Judging by his appearances over the past week, we must therefore assume that through Rishi Sunak's bulging veins flows nothing but pure liquid nitrogen.

For the third time in barely eight days, the new Chancellor was forced to prise open the nation's wallet yesterday in a bid to keep the UK economy churning through the age of the coronavirus.


For the third time in barely eight days, Chancellor Rishi Sunak (pictured) was forced to prise open the nation's wallet yesterday in a bid to keep the UK economy churning through the age of the coronavirus

To think his predecessor Sajid Javid spent six months in the Treasury and barely got a chance to peek inside the vaults.

Once again, young Rishi produced the sort of calm, cool-headed turn that far outweighed the oodles of swag he chose to throw at the ongoing crisis. As performers go, this is guy is good. He is very, very good.

The economic measures he announced, as he kept reminding us, were 'unprecedented'. The stuff of dystopian JG Ballard short stories.

The Government would guarantee 80 per cent of wages, up to £2,500 a month, for those not working. VAT payments would be deferred until June. The private sector, for all intents and purposes, is now effectively nationalised.

Dear God, I thought watching at home, was this actually for real? As the Chancellor reeled off these extraordinary new measures, Sky News cut away to ghostly helicopter shots of empty central London streets. Waterloo Bridge? Deserted. Yup, this was really happening.


To Boris's left stood England's deputy medical adviser, Dr Jenny Harries. On each lectern were slogans that read 'Stay at home', 'Protect the NHS', 'Save lives'.

Sunak had entered the Downing Street briefing room breezily. I remember people like this at school turning up for exams. While most of us stood there, knees wobbly as trifle, the likes of Rishi would be hovering in the corridor laughing and talking about what beer they were drinking.

To Boris's left stood England's deputy medical adviser, Dr Jenny Harries. On each lectern were slogans that read 'Stay at home', 'Protect the NHS', 'Save lives'.

As these conferences progress, the intensity seems to dial up a notch. Boris summoned Rishi to speak the way a football coach unveils his new £80million Argentinian striker.

Enter el whizz kid. El chico de oro.

Previous chancellors have tended to be tall, imposing figures: Philip Hammond, George Osborne, Gordon Brown, Ken Clarke. Mr Sunak's frame is so slight, you would barely expect him to survive a stiff breeze on Skegness beach.

But, oh, how he's shot up in character the past few days. The Chancellor began by addressing people's concerns. To those struggling with their mortgages, their food, their domestic bills. Particularly to those who have recently lost their jobs.

'You will not face this alone,' he said.


The Chancellor began by addressing people's concerns. To those struggling with their mortgages, their food, their domestic bills. Particularly to those who have recently lost their jobs

Money men don't usually do sensitivity well. They tend to be numbers guys, all clinical and precise. How novel it was to hear the Chancellor actually do the heart-string stuff. He spoke directly to workers.

'I know it's incredibly difficult out there – we in government are doing everything we can to support you,' he said. 'The Government is doing its best to stand behind [employers] and I'm asking you to do your best to stand behind our workers.'

What was striking as these shocking proposals were unveiled one by one was how calm the Chancellor remained.

His neatly parted hair barely wobbled. His brow remained bone dry. His pitch-perfect delivery soothingly assured. For the country, there was a stark, level-headed message.


Rishi Sunak: 'We want to look back on this time and remember how in the face of a generation-defining moment, we undertook a collective national effort and we stood together. It's on all of us'

'I cannot promise you that no one will face hardship in the weeks ahead.' Gulp. He ended on a flourish. He reminded everyone how we would be judged in the future 'by our compassion'.

He added: 'We want to look back on this moment and remember the many small acts of kindness done by us and to us. We want to look back on this time and remember how we thought first of others and acted with decency.

'We want to look back on this time and remember how in the face of a generation-defining moment, we undertook a collective national effort and we stood together. It's on all of us.'

Pass the Kleenex! He sounded, dare I say it, prime ministerial. To his left, Boris nodded defiantly. An interesting dynamic is now opening up between the Prime Minister and his Chancellor. Should we fear any rivalry? I don't think so.

The best compliment we can give Boris is that he has the confidence to put people more intelligent than he is in positions of authority.

As the Prime Minister headed off for yet another long weekend of tough decisions, it was at least reassuring to know he now has the best next-door neighbour he could ask for.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ompassion.html
Last edited by Blackleaf; 1 week ago at 07:51 AM..
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

How do you know what he understands and what he doesn't?


Cause he wrote this piece of shyte opinion without any regard to the actual medical science and the procedures that we know work and instead bought into this idiotic belief that BoJo has.

And I would SERIOUSLY question any medical personnel that agrees with his plan.

Although thank GODS they backed off that stupid 'herd mentality' BS. And apparently gives cops the power to tell people to go the fuk home.






Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Yes. Definiely.


Then you should be locked up for reckless endangerment to human life, and when this is all over with, then you can have your life back.

Cause otherwise your blatant ignorance and disregard for human life is going to cost someone THEIR life. While you might not have someone who is immune compromised or has health issues that make them more at risk of death from this, I do, and I am so fuking DONE with selfish, narcissistic azzholes like you who think they don't deserve to have their lives.
 
Blackleaf
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Cause he wrote this piece of shyte opinion without any regard to the actual medical science and the procedures that we know work and instead bought into this idiotic belief that BoJo has.

And I would SERIOUSLY question any medical personnel that agrees with his plan.











Then you should be locked up for reckless endangerment to human life, and when this is all over with, then you can have your life back.

Cause otherwise your blatant ignorance and disregard for human life is going to cost someone THEIR life. While you might not have someone who is immune compromised or has health issues that make them more at risk of death from this, I do, and I am so fuking DONE with selfish, narcissistic azzholes like you who think they don't deserve to have their lives.


What procedures do you think work: All those drastic procedures that Italy has brought in which have done nothing whatsoever to cut the number of deaths there, which are actually increasing?


Quote:

And I would SERIOUSLY question any medical personnel that agrees with his plan.

What? Even though he is being advised by medical advisers and doctors?


Quote:

Although thank GODS they backed off that stupid 'herd mentality' BS. And apparently gives cops the power to tell people to go the fuk home.


As Boris's medical adviser rightly said: The best way to combat the virus is to let 60% of the population contract it.


By the way, what makes you think anyone has the power to tell 66 million people to be imprisoned in their own homes? Good luck trying to enforce that. It won't work. People will rebel.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

What procedures do you think work: All those drastic procedures that Italy has brought in which have done nothing whatsoever to cut the number of deaths there, which are actually increasing?




What? Even though he is being advised by medical advisers and doctors?





As Boris's medical adviser rightly said: The best way to combat the virus is to let 60% of the population contract it.


By the way, what makes you think anyone has the power to tell 66 million people to be imprisoned in their own homes? Good luck trying to enforce that. It won't work. People will rebel.


You're a disgusting, vile... hell, you're no human being. I don't know what kind of effin' monster you are. I knew it before but this... this just proves it.

Because of azzholes like YOU, my mother, my brother, other family, friends... they could die because you don't give a shyte about anyone but yourself and I am fukin' sick and tired of YOUR kind not giving a shyte.

So fuk you... and yeah, I'm irrational and pissed, because I work in a hospital and I KNOW how effin' SCARED people are right now; actual, real, professional doctors who know more about this stuff than you, and those supposed doctors that advised BoJo before he finally listened to real effin' experts and not half-wit ignorant twats.
 
Blackleaf
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

You're a disgusting, vile... hell, you're no human being. I don't know what kind of effin' monster you are. I knew it before but this... this just proves it.
Because of azzholes like YOU, my mother, my brother, other family, friends... they could die because you don't give a shyte about anyone but yourself and I am fukin' sick and tired of YOUR kind not giving a shyte.
So fuk you... and yeah, I'm irrational and pissed, because I work in a hospital and I KNOW how effin' SCARED people are right now; actual, real, professional doctors who know more about this stuff than you, and those supposed doctors that advised BoJo before he finally listened to real effin' experts and not half-wit ignorant twats.

The best way for a country to combat a virus is to let most of the people contract it and therefore develop an immunity to it. That's what Johnson's chief medical adviser said.

Britain is right in keeping its borders open. Canada and America and Germany are closing their borders but that's the wrong way to combat it. You are shielding the populace from the virus, which means that when you open your borders again and people with the virus start entering your country again, corona would just wreak havoc amongst your people. It'll spread like wildfire.

Britain is taking a far more sensible approach.

By the way, it's not cool, calm, rational people like me putting people's lives at risk. It's irrational, hysterical, fearmongering people like you that are doing just that.
 
Avro52
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The best way for a country to combat a virus is to let most of the people contract it and therefore develop an immunity to it. That's what Johnson's chief medical adviser said.
Britain is right in keeping its borders open. Canada and America and Germany are closing their borders but that's the wrong way to combat it. You are shielding the populace from the virus, which means that when you open your borders again and people with the virus start entering your country again, corona would just wreak havoc amongst your people. It'll spread like wildfire.
Britain is taking a far more sensible approach.
By the way, it's not cool, calm, rational people like me putting people's lives at risk. It's irrational, hysterical, fearmongering people like you that are doing just that.

That 1.4 million brits dead.
 
DaSleeper
#10
Without going into all the details, years ago when i was in my 20's I discovered a dead guy in one of the rooms in a local hotel.
After reporting to the police, a week later I get a call from the hospital to go to the emergency department, since the guy had died of tuberculosis.
Ever since then I've tested positive for tuberculosis but non contagious,
I even was part time ambulance attendant years later.



Hopefully, if I'm exposed to this new virus, my immune system will kick in?
But I doubt it... I ain't immune to the common cold or even the flu if I don't get my yearly shots.
 
Avro52
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Without going into all the details, years ago when i was in my 20's I discovered a dead guy in one of the rooms in a local hotel.
After reporting to the police, a week later I get a call from the hospital to go to the emergency department, since the guy had died of tuberculosis.
Ever since then I've tested positive for tuberculosis but non contagious,
I even was part time ambulance attendant years later.
Hopefully, if I'm exposed to this new virus, my immune system will kick in?
But I doubt it... I ain't immune to the common cold or even the flu if I don't get my yearly shots.

Corona type viruses exist in the common cold. I had pneumonia a few years back and I don’t want this thing. You should be doing what I am. Stay in and stay clear.
 
Blackleaf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

Without going into all the details, years ago when i was in my 20's I discovered a dead guy in one of the rooms in a local hotel.
After reporting to the police, a week later I get a call from the hospital to go to the emergency department, since the guy had died of tuberculosis.
Ever since then I've tested positive for tuberculosis but non contagious,
I even was part time ambulance attendant years later.
Hopefully, if I'm exposed to this new virus, my immune system will kick in?
But I doubt it... I ain't immune to the common cold or even the flu if I don't get my yearly shots.

It isn't about whether one particular person is immune or not.

Herd immunity means allowing the majority of a population to contract a virus so that a high enough proportion of individuals in that population become immune to it. That way the majority will protect the few susceptible people because the pathogen is less likely to find a susceptible person.
 
Blackleaf
#13
As for ordering people to stay at home and closing borders, as other countries are doing, that could prove disastrous for those countries:
The UK's chief scientific adviser has revealed that around 40million people could be left to catch the coronavirus as part of a controversial Government plan for the country to develop herd immunity.

Sir Patrick Vallance said around 60 per cent of the population will need to catch the virus to build up a national tolerance strong enough to stop the virus circulating.

Chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty, did not say how many people could die during the time this takes to work, but the current global death rate – around three per cent – suggests it could be 1.2million people in a worst-case scenario.

But officials expect it to be considerably lower – Professor Whitty said even one per cent – 400,000 people – would be an overestimate.

The Government is now aiming to control the speed of the UK's epidemic and predicts the worst of it could come in around 12 weeks' time – mid-June – suggesting it could taper off to levels similar to the current situation by September.

It will attempt to slow down the spread by gradually introducing stricter measures, such as potentially banning large gatherings or closing schools in future, as the outbreak speeds up.

Sir Patrick admitted trying to stop the virus completely would be more dangerous in the long run.

He said: 'All of the evidence from previous epidemics suggests that when you do that and then you release it, it all comes back again... this is to make sure we don't end up with a sudden peak again in the winter, which is even larger, which causes even more problems.'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ronavirus.html
 
Blackleaf
#14
The U.K. backed off on herd immunity. To beat COVID-19, we’ll ultimately need it.

Widespread immunity is essential for a successful vaccine

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...us-we-need-it/
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The best way for a country to combat a virus is to let most of the people contract it and therefore develop an immunity to it. That's what Johnson's chief medical adviser said.

Britain is right in keeping its borders open. Canada and America and Germany are closing their borders but that's the wrong way to combat it. You are shielding the populace from the virus, which means that when you open your borders again and people with the virus start entering your country again, corona would just wreak havoc amongst your people. It'll spread like wildfire.

Britain is taking a far more sensible approach.

By the way, it's not cool, calm, rational people like me putting people's lives at risk. It's irrational, hysterical, fearmongering people like you that are doing just that.


I'm not fear mongering.

I haven't freaked out and hoarded stupid stuff like toilet paper or anything else.

I don't spread misinformation.


Nor am I hysterical and screaming the sky is falling.

What I AM doing is being aware that this virus is not just deadly, but dangerous and we DON'T know enough about it to do more than what's being suggested by people who obviously know more than the doctors BoJo has advising him.

What I AM furious at is people like you who DON'T follow the advice of the real doctors who specialize in this kind of thing making sure this situation lasts longer, not shorter, AND putting people at risk at the same time.

I don't apologize for being upset at people like you because it's people like you, not taking this seriously, that could infect and kill my mother. My brother. My aunt. Friends. Hell, even me though I care much less about myself right now. How DARE you. And then there's the strain on the medical/health care system, that NO country can handle right now and as a worker IN that environment I worry about the OTHER patients we deal with too.

And the fact you think "herd immunization" is the proper way is just... insane. Even your own GOVERNMENT has walked that back as the option and has given powers to the medical professionals and police to tell people to go home.
Last edited by Serryah; 1 week ago at 12:01 PM..
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
+1
#16  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The U.K. backed off on herd immunity. To beat COVID-19, we’ll ultimately need it.

Widespread immunity is essential for a successful vaccine

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...us-we-need-it/


And thus you prove that you're ignorant of how an actual vaccine is produced as well.


My GODS you are just... effin' idiotic.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

You're a disgusting, vile... hell, you're no human being. I don't know what kind of effin' monster you are. I knew it before but this... this just proves it.

Because of azzholes like YOU, my mother, my brother, other family, friends... they could die because you don't give a shyte about anyone but yourself and I am fukin' sick and tired of YOUR kind not giving a shyte.

So fuk you... and yeah, I'm irrational and pissed, because I work in a hospital and I KNOW how effin' SCARED people are right now; actual, real, professional doctors who know more about this stuff than you, and those supposed doctors that advised BoJo before he finally listened to real effin' experts and not half-wit ignorant twats.

Well , maybe look out your window . Here I see the neighbour children all out running around , interacting as usual . Groups off adults out walking their dogs and chatting . Wife at Costco watching people fight over parking spots . I understand there are few children in New Brunswick but am sure the Costco is still open and doing brisk trade .
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I'm not fear mongering.

I haven't freaked out and hoarded stupid stuff like toilet paper or anything else.

I don't spread misinformation.


Nor am I hysterical and screaming the sky is falling.

What I AM doing is being aware that this virus is not just deadly, but dangerous and we DON'T know enough about it to do more than what's being suggested by people who obviously know more than the doctors BoJo has advising him.

What I AM furious at is people like you who DON'T follow the advice of the real doctors who specialize in this kind of thing making sure this situation lasts longer, not shorter, AND putting people at risk at the same time.

I don't apologize for being upset at people like you because it's people like you, not taking this seriously, that could infect and kill my mother. My brother. My aunt. Friends. Hell, even me though I care much less about myself right now. How DARE you. And then there's the strain on the medical/health care system, that NO country can handle right now and as a worker IN that environment I worry about the OTHER patients we deal with too.

And the fact you think "herd immunization" is the proper way is just... insane. Even your own GOVERNMENT has walked that back as the option and has given powers to the medical professionals and police to tell people to go home.

Just curious , is our government doing what needs to be done .Are our Canadian medical advisors more knowledgeable then their British or American counterparts? Are we all going to die ?
 
petros
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Just curious , is our government doing what needs to be done .Are our Canadian medical advisors more knowledgeable then their British or American counterparts? Are we all going to die ?

It's all new to everyone. Without pooling resources some nations will be ahead and others behind the the 8 ball.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

It's all new to everyone. Without pooling resources some nations will be ahead and others behind the the 8 ball.

I see lots of posters heaping scorn on politicians , usually on opposing side of the voting spectrum . I don’t notice much criticism of our self quarantined PM although his message has been consistent with other leaders .
 
Avro52
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

I see lots of posters heaping scorn on politicians , usually on opposing side of the voting spectrum . I don’t notice much criticism of our self quarantined PM although his message has been consistent with other leaders .

For me I think the Feds and the Ford government have done a decent job of action and communication. Trudeau running in to get his coat was pretty funny. Poor little fella.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Avro52 View Post

For me I think the Feds and the Ford government have done a decent job of action and communication. Trudeau running in to get his coat was pretty funny. Poor little fella.


Locally, if our Premier hadn't just a couple weeks before this became the issue it is threatened to shut down six ER's after midnight and make acute care beds into ALC only beds, I might be more inclined to say Higgs has handled things decently well.


So far about Trudeau, while I get why he hasn't enacted a national state of emergency, I also think that maybe it's time he did.

I think the 82 Billion Emergency Response package was smart though I worry despite the assurance it won't affect us that badly, that it will.


Overall at least our leadership has taken things seriously, unlike other countries, even if it still may not be serious enough.
 
Blackleaf
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I'm not fear mongering.
I haven't freaked out and hoarded stupid stuff like toilet paper or anything else.
I don't spread misinformation.
Nor am I hysterical and screaming the sky is falling.
What I AM doing is being aware that this virus is not just deadly, but dangerous

The flu is deadly and kills thousands of people in Canada every year. Do you get all hysterical and panicky about that?

Quote:

and we DON'T know enough about it to do more than what's being suggested by people who obviously know more than the doctors BoJo has advising him

People who know MORE than doctors? Hmmmmm.
Quote:

What I AM furious at is people like you who DON'T follow the advice of the real doctors

As opposed to what? Fake doctors?

Quote:

I don't apologize for being upset at people like you because it's people like you, not taking this seriously, that could infect and kill my mother. My brother. My aunt. Friends.

Flu could kill all those people, yet I bet you barely even give that a passing thought.

Quote:

and the fact you think "herd immunization" is the proper way is just... insane. Even your own GOVERNMENT has walked that back as the option and has given powers to the medical professionals and police to tell people to go home.

No. The fact of the matter is that herding may be the only way to develop a vaccine and would probably kill less people in the long run than telling people not to go out anywhere.

And the government isn't telling people to go home. I'm sat outside in the lovely warm sunshine on Victoria Square in front of the town hall with lots of people around.

The fact of the matter is that the government CAN'T order people to stay at home. It's not good for people's health and mental wellbeing and millions will rebel.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Locally, if our Premier hadn't just a couple weeks before this became the issue it is threatened to shut down six ER's after midnight and make acute care beds into ALC only beds, I might be more inclined to say Higgs has handled things decently well.


So far about Trudeau, while I get why he hasn't enacted a national state of emergency, I also think that maybe it's time he did.

I think the 82 Billion Emergency Response package was smart though I worry despite the assurance it won't affect us that badly, that it will.


Overall at least our leadership has taken things seriously, unlike other countries, even if it still may not be serious enough.

Overall our leadership has acted consistently with other world leaders . However Trump’s America shut down air traffic with China shortly after the severity of the virus was known . Funny Canada still allows air traffic from China . Don’t worry though , those flights don’t land in New Brunswick .
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The flu is deadly and kills thousands of people in Canada every year. Do you get all hysterical and panicky about that?


Yes it is, but not as deadly as Covid19 and not as dangerous.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

People who know MORE than doctors? Hmmmmm.


As opposed to what? Fake doctors?


If you're going to cherry pick what to discuss, then don't bother discussing. I said people who know more than the doctors who are advising BoJo - so I guess to clarify (since that's the confusion) the Epidemiologists, the Immunologists and other scientists who are studying this virus.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Flu could kill all those people, yet I bet you barely even give that a passing thought.


Actually not true. I do give it passing thoughts - hence why I get the flu shot. But that's the difference, again, between Covid19 and the flu; the flu has vaccines for it, Covid does not and won't for roughly another year.



Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

No. The fact of the matter is that herding may be the only way to develop a vaccine and would probably kill less people in the long run than telling people not to go out anywhere.


Telling people not to go anywhere is more than just the vaccine, you thickskulled nitwit. It's to make sure that the medical system isn't overwhelmed with cases requiring hospitalization.

As for herding developing a vaccine, no it won't and again you don't get how vaccine's are made, obviously.

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

And the government isn't telling people to go home. I'm sat outside in the lovely warm sunshine on Victoria Square in front of the town hall with lots of people around.


You're right, that's what the police are doing, from what I read yesterday. But sadly, enough idiots still think this is all blown out of proportion or something and don't give a shyte about others but themselves. Like the kids in Florida on their break, or the idiots on beaches in Nova Scotia...

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The fact of the matter is that the government CAN'T order people to stay at home. It's not good for people's health and mental wellbeing and millions will rebel.



It can and it should. Example, Italy; but then the people of Italy are understanding now what it means to be ground zero of a horrible situation. Britain hasn't hit that ground... yet.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#26
Here Blackie. Read this; THIS is why governments should take this more seriously.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/medic...aLjbmy3iZG7MTU


And before you go off on where the story comes from, here's a personal account.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater


There are so many more stories out there from people going through this.


Get educated. LEARN the reasons why things are being done, instead of just thinking it's all out of proportion. I'm not hysterical, but reading things like this is damn well scary and concerning.
 
Blackleaf
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Here Blackie. Read this; THIS is why governments should take this more seriously.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/medic...aLjbmy3iZG7MTU
And before you go off on where the story comes from, here's a personal account.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
There are so many more stories out there from people going through this.
Get educated. LEARN the reasons why things are being done, instead of just thinking it's all out of proportion. I'm not hysterical, but reading things like this is damn well scary and concerning.

Codswallop.

We don't go through all this ludicrous rigmarole because of the flu, and yet a lot more people have died from that since 1st January than from coronavirus.
 
Blackleaf
#28
As for lockdown, it's telling that many of the same simpletons who not long ago called Johnson a fascist (for reasons known only to themselves) ended up being many of the same people who criticised our libertarian, anti-big state PM who hates government interference in people's lives for refusing to partake in fascistic behaviour by not wanting to prevent people stepping foot out of their homes and go about their lives as normal with freedom.