U.S. war resister granted stay of deportation order


Praxius
#1

Corey Glass, an Iraq veteran who deserted the National Guard and fled to Canada, can stay in Canada while his legal case unfolds.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...-resister.html

Quote:

A federal court on Wednesday granted a U.S. war resister a stay of removal, allowing him to remain in Canada while his legal case unfolds.

Corey Glass, an Iraq veteran who deserted the National Guard and fled to Canada in 2006, had been scheduled to be deported to the United States on Thursday.

Glass, 25, can stay in Canada while the court reviews and decides on his applications for leave and judicial review processes his lawyer said could take months.

Glass told CBC News that he had his bags packed and had moved out of his apartment, ready to be deported.

"I was shocked. I was just enjoying my last little bit of time I had in Canada," he said.
But the ruling comes on the heels of a news report that questioned whether Glass is actually a war resister.

ABC News reported recently that according to U.S. Army documents and officials, Glass was actually discharged from the California National Guard Dec. 1, 2006, four months after he arrived in Canada.

"He is not considered absent without leave. He is not considered a deserter," Maj. Nathan Banks, an Army spokesman told ABC News. "He is running for no reason. He is fully welcome in the United States. I cannot believe this is a big deal in Canada."

But Glass disputed Banks' interpretation of his status.

He said that he hasn't received his DD Form 214, the official discharge form, from the U.S. military. Glass added that while he was discharged from the California National Guard, he was transferred to the individual ready reserve, a federal branch of the military, meaning he could be called up for active duty and could still face prosecution for desertion.

He said that following the news report, he spoke with a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer who said he's still facing punishment.

"I'm still in the same situation I was in before," he said.

Meanwhile in Washington, a group of protesters gathered Wednesday outside the Canadian Embassy to show support for Glass and fellow war resisters who have sought refuge in Canada.

The demonstrators thanked Canadians who support their cause and called on the Canadian government to end its efforts to deport war resisters.

 
Liberalman
#2
War resisters have no place in Canada while Canadian soldiers are involved in a war.
They should all be deported until our war has ended and our troops are safely home.
 
Risus
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

War resisters have no place in Canada while Canadian soldiers are involved in a war.
They should all be deported until our war has ended and our troops are safely home.

Yes we don't need those deadbeats up here...
 
Scott Free
#4
I applaud this. I hope he can become a citizen.
 
scratch
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Yes we don't need those deadbeats up here...

Why are we there in the first place? Thank you Harpo. If a resistor showed up at my door I would welcome him. So many thousands have died on both sides and for what? Oil, I think not. The Americans didn't finish the job the first time so Daddy and Jeb Busharoo fixed an election (Parizeau tried on a referendum but failed) for Georgie to finish the job and have a permanent place for American troops there regardless of how many die.
Going on over five years that victory was declared. The Busharoos made a huge mistake. But Americans will always do every wrong thing possible in a given situation before they do the right thing---THE RIGHT THING ISN'T HAPPENING!
 
Praxius
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

War resisters have no place in Canada while Canadian soldiers are involved in a war.
They should all be deported until our war has ended and our troops are safely home.

That might make some sense and I almost could agree with you.... but he's resisting a different war then the one we are fighting, so the two don't relate.

If we were both fighting in Iraq and he fled to Canada to avoid fighting, then yes, I would agree with you.

If he just got back from Afghanistan where we are fighting and feld to Canada to avoid fighting there again, then I could agree with you.

But since these are two different wars, I feel there's a bit of open area for allowing him to stay until he gets his legal things delt with, at the very least.

But this isn't just about someone refusing to fight in Iraq for his country.... no scratch that.... for his government. He already did his time, and they d*cked him around with his papers showing that he's discharged and they placed him into another unit which could throw him back into the fight, where justifiably, he did his time, paid his dues, and if he doesn't want to go back, he shouldn't.... and that's what he's worried about.

If he got his papers showing that he is indeed discharged, then I imagine he would head back over the border, and if it was me, I wouldn't budge an inch until I did get the right documents, and I would want to have a allied country to at least back me up and protect me until official legal procedings were completed against my country, just as I would hope our country would do the same.

It's more about democratic/human rights and that thin line between your rights as a civilian and the rights as a soldier..... and the obligations their and our governments must meet in order to keep whatever trust they have left in the people.

If you sign a contract to serve your country and you meet it to a tee, but then your country doesn't hold up it's end of the bargian, then what else is one supposed to do to make sure they do?
 
Praxius
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Why are we there in the first place?

We're not in Iraq.... we're in Afghanistan... he's fighting his legal troubles in relation to Iraq.

Quote:

Thank you Harpo.

No, Thank the LIberals for getting us in Afghanistan.... Harper is only taking over what the Liberals started.... put blame where blame is due.

Quote:

If a resistor showed up at my door I would welcome him. So many thousands have died on both sides and for what? Oil, I think not. The Americans didn't finish the job the first time so Daddy and Jeb Busharoo fixed an election (Parizeau tried on a referendum but failed) for Georgie to finish the job and have a permanent place for American troops there regardless of how many die.
Going on over five years that victory was declared. The Busharoos made a huge mistake. But Americans will always do every wrong thing possible in a given situation before they do the right thing---THE RIGHT THING ISN'T HAPPENING!

Nope.... don't forget.... Stay the Course, no matter how retarded things get.
 
Colpy
#8
You know, I'm old enough to remember when this country was flooded with US draft dodgers.....many of whom stayed after Carter's amnesty, and many who became citizens. Although as I've grown older, I have swung hard right in my political views, I think we were correct in allowing them to stay.....they were fleeing forced service in the military.

the draft no longer exists.

These are volunteers, people that signed on the dotted line, who agreed with open eyes to serve their country........and then, because of cowardice, or convenience, or because of a sincere wish to protest what they consider an unjust war, they have abandoned their sworn duty.

In the first two cases, cowardice and convenience, we don't want them.

In the last case, if they were really sincere, and wanted to make that point, they would refuse service, serve their time, and take their dishonourable discharge.

It seems Canadians believe US deserters will be shot at dawn......

Here's what they "suffer" for their stand:

Agustin Aguayo, convicted of desertion, a US Army medic? (what, he has a moral problem with helping people?) received a bad conduct discharge, loss of pay and benefits, and 8 months incarceration.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...470284,00.html

Camilo Mejia, served 1 year after refusing to return to Iraq.

the MAXIMUM sentence for desertion is seven years.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/619/35186

Blake Lemoine, sentenced for refusing orders to Iraq. 7 months.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=7943

Quote:

Most deserters do not flee the country. A few who went to Canada have since turned themselves in. One was court-martialed and sentenced to eight months and released after 75 days.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5670860

Ryan Jackson refused orders to Iraq, claimed in court he thought "all war was wrong" (?????he VOLUNTEERED!!!!!!!), sentenced to 100 DAYS!

Robert Weiss, pleaded guilty to desertion, sentenced to seven months.

http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/

Six cases.......

Maximum? 1 year, and that severe, as the next closest was 8 months.

So a deserter, on grounds of conscience, could stand in the nation he is sworn to serve, and expect to have to spend 6 months in prison.

LESS TIME THAN HE WOULD BE IN IRAQ.

These guys are NOT resistors, they are NOT credible, they are cowards.

Throw 'em back.

I had some sympathy until I researched the above.

Now I have none.
 
EagleSmack
#9
Well like the Army Major said...

"He is not a deserter...he is not AWOL...he's running away for nothing."

So you are welcome to him. He can protest, resist, whatever because he most likely has hero status up there. I am sure he is receiving some sort of free stipend from the Canadian Govt.

Basically he is kicking back and enjoying good ol' Canadian hospitality via Canadian money!
 
Colpy
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Well like the Army Major said...

"He is not a deserter...he is not AWOL...he's running away for nothing."

So you are welcome to him. He can protest, resist, whatever because he most likely has hero status up there. I am sure he is receiving some sort of free stipend from the Canadian Govt.

Basically he is kicking back and enjoying good ol' Canadian hospitality via Canadian money!

Dead on.

This stuff is starting to piss me off.

The same people in this country that hail the "courage" of "resistors" that flee a jail sentence in the USA that would be LESS time than they OWE in service they volunteered for.......those same Canadians would piss on John McCain, who "volunteered" for years of torture on a matter of principle.

the left makes me sick.
 
MikeyDB
#11
Colpy

What "logic" are you using that permits you to label anyone who doesn't agree with you..."left"...?

You trust the American government Colpy and perhaps that's because they've never screwed with you directly.... which can't be said for many millions of Americans who have been lied to and lost family on the basis of lies and exaggeration....

Are fathers and mothers who denounce the Bush administration for its record of failures and lies...."left"....?
 
EagleSmack
#12
Right...they don't end up going to the gallows or spending life in prison.

However you should be happy to know that when they do get out they recieve a Bad Conduct Discharge at the minimum. This will follow them for the rest of their lives. It will come up on every background check when they go for employment. It is a stigma that they will never shake. It is all fun and games now...the spot light is on them...but when the lights and momentary fame wears down and they are forgotten by the people that coddle them they will be stuck with that black mark forever. Look what the Liberals did to Cindy Sheehan. Once the Democrats won Congress back she was shoved aside as these guys will be eventually.
 
MikeyDB
#13
Eaglesmack

Greetings!

Could you provide us with some help in differentiating between "cowardice" and "standing up for one's principles"...?

When your nation stands up for the "principle" that torture is wrong...then involves itself in using torture as a means to obtain "intelligence"....has there been a lie told or is it cowardice to take the same route to gain this intelligence in the manner used by and denounced by...American (or Canadian) as one's enemies?

Where does "principle" stop or begin and how might one tell the difference?
 
EagleSmack
#14
First off...the guy is an idiot. He is claiming status of a resistor and he is not even charged with anything. You are giving this guy a forum and a place to stay and he is just living off Canada's sympathy. If he comes back to the US nobody will be waiting for him to arrest him. He is a wannabe because he needs to be coddled. Canada loves to coddle these guys so you are welcome to him. If he comes back he will have to work and why should he when Canada is giving him all those comforts.

So the US is saying...

"I don't know why Canada is making a big deal of this guy...he is not a deserter or AWOL."

But he is saying...

"No! No! I haven't recieved my DD214 yet!"

I am sure it is sitting on the kitchen table waiting to be opened. But this guy wanted to "run" to Canada and be noticed and coddled. If he was discharged a DD214 is available. If his time is up...when his IRR status is completed he will get an Honorable Discharge to boot. This guy is in far better shape than the other deserters that Canada is holding on to.

I will repeat...enjoy the lad...keep the free loader...he's all yours!
 
EagleSmack
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

We're not in Iraq.... we're in Afghanistan... he's fighting his legal troubles in relation to Iraq.

The thing is Prax...he has NO legal troubles. He is telling Canada and people sympathetic to the plight of deserters that he does but he is neither AWOL or a deserter.

I agree that there are a quite a few deserters up there that are in deep legal trouble but this guy just wants to be considered as one of them. But he isn't.

As far as I am concerned this guy just needs attention. Apparently he has gone to the right place.
 
Colpy
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDB View Post

Colpy

What "logic" are you using that permits you to label anyone who doesn't agree with you..."left"...?

You trust the American government Colpy and perhaps that's because they've never screwed with you directly.... which can't be said for many millions of Americans who have been lied to and lost family on the basis of lies and exaggeration....

Are fathers and mothers who denounce the Bush administration for its record of failures and lies...."left"....?

Well, I'll grant you the label often does not fit a person of any specific belief....for instance, I support socialised medical care, which would make me "left" in the USA.

But if you support these "resistors", AND if you think John McCain is an unsavoury monster, war monger, and McBush.....I think the label probably sticks.

It is simply convenient........

Would you prefer I call them brain-dead, appeasing, morally confused, spineless, navel-gazing, latte-sucking, surrender monkeys?

I think "left" is not necessarily a pejorative.
 
Praxius
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

You know, I'm old enough to remember when this country was flooded with US draft dodgers.....many of whom stayed after Carter's amnesty, and many who became citizens. Although as I've grown older, I have swung hard right in my political views, I think we were correct in allowing them to stay.....they were fleeing forced service in the military.

the draft no longer exists.

These are volunteers, people that signed on the dotted line, who agreed with open eyes to serve their country........and then, because of cowardice, or convenience, or because of a sincere wish to protest what they consider an unjust war, they have abandoned their sworn duty.

In the first two cases, cowardice and convenience, we don't want them.

In the last case, if they were really sincere, and wanted to make that point, they would refuse service, serve their time, and take their dishonourable discharge.

It seems Canadians believe US deserters will be shot at dawn......

Here's what they "suffer" for their stand:

Agustin Aguayo, convicted of desertion, a US Army medic? (what, he has a moral problem with helping people?) received a bad conduct discharge, loss of pay and benefits, and 8 months incarceration.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...470284,00.html

Camilo Mejia, served 1 year after refusing to return to Iraq.

the MAXIMUM sentence for desertion is seven years.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/619/35186

Blake Lemoine, sentenced for refusing orders to Iraq. 7 months.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=7943



http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5670860

Ryan Jackson refused orders to Iraq, claimed in court he thought "all war was wrong" (?????he VOLUNTEERED!!!!!!!), sentenced to 100 DAYS!

Robert Weiss, pleaded guilty to desertion, sentenced to seven months.

http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/

Six cases.......

Maximum? 1 year, and that severe, as the next closest was 8 months.

So a deserter, on grounds of conscience, could stand in the nation he is sworn to serve, and expect to have to spend 6 months in prison.

LESS TIME THAN HE WOULD BE IN IRAQ.

These guys are NOT resistors, they are NOT credible, they are cowards.

Throw 'em back.

I had some sympathy until I researched the above.

Now I have none.

You're still completely wrong in this person's individual case as he hasn't taken off due to being a coward and/or to protest the war as being illegal:

"He said that he hasn't received his DD Form 214, the official discharge form, from the U.S. military. Glass added that while he was discharged from the California National Guard, he was transferred to the individual ready reserve, a federal branch of the military, meaning he could be called up for active duty and could still face prosecution for desertion.

He said that following the news report, he spoke with a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer who said he's still facing punishment.

"I'm still in the same situation I was in before," he said."


^ Why should he have to go back and face punishment for something he never did and was never his fault?

It's not about just sucking up being put in jail for a year to avoid going to Iraq.... he didn't do anything wrong, followed everything by the book as it would seem based on the information, the military d*cked him over..... and you expect him to just take it and serve jail time for their screw up?

For this guy's paticular situation, it's about principles.... why the hell should he have to goto jail for something he didn't do? And if he's facing that sort of future, then why should Canada blindly toss him to such a corrupt fate?

Because he signed a contact with the Military? Well a contract goes both ways and if the force is going to break their contract or loophole him around so he has to serve more then what was agreed apon, then why should he even fathom exceeding his own requirements to the same contract?

He already met his requirements of the contract.
 
lone wolf
#18
Buddy maybe should have read the fine print. Reserve means you're still in - whether you're no longer Guard or not. If he'd done it the easy way and twisted an ankle, he'd be 4F now and not hiding.
 
Praxius
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Well like the Army Major said...

"He is not a deserter...he is not AWOL...he's running away for nothing."

So you are welcome to him. He can protest, resist, whatever because he most likely has hero status up there. I am sure he is receiving some sort of free stipend from the Canadian Govt.

Basically he is kicking back and enjoying good ol' Canadian hospitality via Canadian money!

Oh well, if the money wasn't wasted on him, it'd be wasted on something else.
 
EagleSmack
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

You're still completely wrong in this person's individual case as he hasn't taken off due to being a coward and/or to protest the war as being illegal:

"He said that he hasn't received his DD Form 214, the official discharge form, from the U.S. military. Glass added that while he was discharged from the California National Guard, he was transferred to the individual ready reserve, a federal branch of the military, meaning he could be called up for active duty and could still face prosecution for desertion.



Now we are going to get into some military legal jargon here. The guy is full of it. How can he get transfered to the IRR w/o a DD 214? You NEED a DD 214 before you get transfered to Inactive Reserve Status. When I was transfered to the IRR and checked in they asked...

"Can I see your DD 214?"
"Yes Sir...here it is."

Wallah! I was now on IRR status.

Quote:

He said that following the news report, he spoke with a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer who said he's still facing punishment.

Quote:


"I'm still in the same situation I was in before," he said."



If he does get called up to serve while on IRR status he WILL be facing trouble. As of now the Army says that he is on IRR and has not been called up. He is basically whining about nothing.

Quote:

^ Why should he have to go back and face punishment for something he never did and was never his fault?

I agree with that. Nobody is at fault in this case. Neither the government, the Army, or Corey. He can come and go as he pleases. He is making this something it isn't.

Quote:

It's not about just sucking up being put in jail for a year to avoid going to Iraq.... he didn't do anything wrong, followed everything by the book as it would seem based on the information, the military d*cked him over..... and you expect him to just take it and serve jail time for their screw up?

How did the d*** him over? He did his time, is on IRR status and in good standing and has not been called back to active status.

Quote:

For this guy's paticular situation, it's about principles.... why the hell should he have to goto jail for something he didn't do? And if he's facing that sort of future, then why should Canada blindly toss him to such a corrupt fate?

He can stay in Canada and be up on stage and protest all he wants. You can coddle and pay his bills give him a place to stay...do whatever. He's a free loader.

Quote:

Because he signed a contact with the Military? Well a contract goes both ways and if the force is going to break their contract or loophole him around so he has to serve more then what was agreed apon, then why should he even fathom exceeding his own requirements to the same contract?

He already met his requirements of the contract.

Up to this point you are right. He is under the IRR required to serve additional time if he is called. So far he has not been called up. If he does get called up and does not report THEN the young man is screwed. The IRR is no loop hole. It has been part of the military contract LONG before this guy signed up. When you sign up you get a 6 to 8 year contract depending on the MOS (job) you sign up for. So many years will be served on active or reserve status...the balance will be on the IRR. In the IRR you can be called back to active duty status. It is in black and white.
 
Praxius
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Right...they don't end up going to the gallows or spending life in prison.

However you should be happy to know that when they do get out they recieve a Bad Conduct Discharge at the minimum. This will follow them for the rest of their lives. It will come up on every background check when they go for employment. It is a stigma that they will never shake. It is all fun and games now...the spot light is on them...but when the lights and momentary fame wears down and they are forgotten by the people that coddle them they will be stuck with that black mark forever. Look what the Liberals did to Cindy Sheehan. Once the Democrats won Congress back she was shoved aside as these guys will be eventually.

See that's the whole point why this guy is fighting it the way he is right now.... as explained multiple times, he did everything he was supposed to and he is being d*cked over by his own government....

Why should he have to live with a Bad Conduct Discharge for the rest of his life when he filled his obligations already and because the military won't give him his DD Form 214?

Why should he be forced to go back to Iraq and fight because of their refusal to meet their own obligations?

Why should he face jail time for their failure to meet their obligations?

Why should he have to suffer for already serving his country as requested and take the brunt of the Military's incompetence on his shoulders?

Why the hell should he have to suck it up and be forced to fight longer then he was supposed to or goto jail like he lives in some communist run state?

Why does the Government/Military get away with breaking their own obligations and rules, while the little guy who sacraficed year(s) of their lives already has to take more crap from their country that should be looking after them and not using them like disposable tampons?

You guys keep talking about how sick the Left makes you feel, or how sick it makes you think people like this are treated like heros.... well what makes me sick are the people who continually turn a blind eye to a corrupt government which doesn't give a rats ass for the people they should be working for.
 
lone wolf
#22
He's not being screwed over though. The contract is like two parts - one for you and one for me. He got the one for you. Who's screwing who now?
 
Colpy
#23
The point is this: they volunteer.

I know the terms of service were extended......but that happens in any country. Join the militia in Canada, and you can be called back after you quit......I think it is 5 years. I had a frien who in the militia.......was sent to a course for MPs in the USA (because so many US troops come to Gagetown), the course was canceled, so they sent him to a desert warfare school in the US. This was in 1988 or 89........he quit shortly after and went to university.....he was SURE he was going to be recalled.

Recall or extended service is not unusual. It is part of the obligation.

If you don't want to serve your country, don't sign on the dotted line. Period.

If you wish to make a stand on principle, do it where it counts...AT HOME! taking a stand is only an admireable thing if it COSTS..........If it is obviously to your advantage, then it is not taking a stand, it is something else.

I want these guys sent back to the USA.

They can serve their 6 months.

BIG DEAL!

If they'd stayed there and made a stand, I'd have some sympathy.
 
Praxius
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

[/color][/b]

Now we are going to get into some military legal jargon here. The guy is full of it. How can he get transfered to the IRR w/o a DD 214? You NEED a DD 214 before you get transfered to Inactive Reserve Status. When I was transfered to the IRR and checked in they asked...

"Can I see your DD 214?"
"Yes Sir...here it is."

Wallah! I was now on IRR status.

If he does get called up to serve while on IRR status he WILL be facing trouble. As of now the Army says that he is on IRR and has not been called up. He is basically whining about nothing.

I agree with that. Nobody is at fault in this case. Neither the government, the Army, or Corey. He can come and go as he pleases. He is making this something it isn't.

How did the d*** him over? He did his time, is on IRR status and in good standing and has not been called back to active status.

He can stay in Canada and be up on stage and protest all he wants. You can coddle and pay his bills give him a place to stay...do whatever. He's a free loader.

Up to this point you are right. He is under the IRR required to serve additional time if he is called. So far he has not been called up. If he does get called up and does not report THEN the young man is screwed. The IRR is no loop hole. It has been part of the military contract LONG before this guy signed up. When you sign up you get a 6 to 8 year contract depending on the MOS (job) you sign up for. So many years will be served on active or reserve status...the balance will be on the IRR. In the IRR you can be called back to active duty status. It is in black and white.

Sorry but if I have a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer telling me I still face punishment if I return, I think I might rather not head back until that changes.

If they figure out he "officially" and "Legally" faces nothing if he returns, then I have no issue with Canada giving him the boot.

But in any situation where an individual faces unjust punishment by their own government and may face an unfair battle against that government if they return, I have no problems letting them stay in our country in safety until the situation is resolved.

And the comment of wasted tax dollars on him makes little difference to me, as we're all pretty well used to the government wasting our tax dollars on much more retarded things then this.
 
EagleSmack
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Sorry but if I have a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer telling me I still face punishment if I return, I think I might rather not head back until that changes.

If they figure out he "officially" and "Legally" faces nothing if he returns, then I have no issue with Canada giving him the boot.

But in any situation where an individual faces unjust punishment by their own government and may face an unfair battle against that government if they return, I have no problems letting them stay in our country in safety until the situation is resolved.

And the comment of wasted tax dollars on him makes little difference to me, as we're all pretty well used to the government wasting our tax dollars on much more retarded things then this.

You see...I am having trouble believing his story. Not all deserters or the like are honorable people. I am sure that some have, in their minds legitimate questions on the war. Just like not every soldier is honorable...these deserters are not always honorable either.

He says he has talked to people but the Army Major went on record saying that this guy is free to come and go. I grant you that OTHER real deserters ARE indeed in trouble.

I think this guy in particular wants attention.
 
Praxius
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

The point is this: they volunteer.

Volunteering doesn't mean you give up every and all your rights for the system to do as they please with you. Volunteering isn't a blank cheque.

Quote:

....If you don't want to serve your country, don't sign on the dotted line. Period.

He already served his country, that's the whole point.

Quote:

If you wish to make a stand on principle, do it where it counts...AT HOME! taking a stand is only an admireable thing if it COSTS..........If it is obviously to your advantage, then it is not taking a stand, it is something else.

I want these guys sent back to the USA.

They can serve their 6 months.

BIG DEAL!

If they'd stayed there and made a stand, I'd have some sympathy.

The favor is tilted to the system, so how does one expect them to actually make a stand in an environment where everything is against them? That's why they leave the country in the first place.

you can't really fight the system if you're thrown in jail before you can start.

Give him the forms he requests, finish the procedures set in place..... properly, and this person's situation will be finished and over with.
 
MikeyDB
#27
Why should some "code", some "agreement" even a "contract" that's entered into by two parties be honored by both when it becomes obvious that the contract was initiated and made binding....predicated on lies and half-truths..?

When the United States reverses its position on detainment, torture, secret prisons, chemical weapons, a fairly large string of broken "agreements" and "committments"....by what standard ought the individual be judged? If we apply the standard of the current U.S. government....
 
Praxius
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

You see...I am having trouble believing his story. Not all deserters or the like are honorable people.

Fair enough, I never said any or all of them generally were honerable people without question, and I feel each situation should be addressed on a case by case basis, as one generic solution doesn't work for all.

For this guy in paticular, his surrounding situation is questionable to me, and I only think it is fair that he remains here until things are straightened out and he has a chance to deal with his legal battles in the US in a fair manner.

Quote:

I am sure that some have, in their minds legitimate questions on the war. Just like not every soldier is honorable...these deserters are not always honorable either.

He says he has talked to people but the Army Major went on record saying that this guy is free to come and go. I grant you that OTHER real deserters ARE indeed in trouble.

I think this guy in particular wants attention.

He might want attention, and I didn't say he was honerable or not, but if he feels his future is at risk for things he feels are unjust against his situation in paticular, then he should be given a safe place to carry out his legal troubles until they are clear on what should be done.... and if that means toss him back to the US to deal with things, then so be it... it is what it is.

I'm not speaking as someone against the Iraq war, but I am speaking as someone who feels everybody should be given their fair day in court and to be protected until that time.... which is why I have issues with Git.Bay and what's being done there with Omar (I know, not the same situation, but it is another example of where law has been lost to suit an objective and is an unfair process.)

If someone is claiming their rights are being violated or they face jail time for something they feel unjust, and has no faith in their own legal system's ability to protect them fairly in this process of fighting, then it should be taken seriously and looked into.
 
Praxius
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDB View Post

Why should some "code", some "agreement" even a "contract" that's entered into by two parties be honored by both when it becomes obvious that the contract was initiated and made binding....predicated on lies and half-truths..?

When the United States reverses its position on detainment, torture, secret prisons, chemical weapons, a fairly large string of broken "agreements" and "committments"....by what standard ought the individual be judged? If we apply the standard of the current U.S. government....

And when you lose faith and trust in your own government because of these types of actions.... and you feel they wouldn't have an issue breaking those types of securities on yourself or other citizens of your nation, how can one expect them to stand up and fight the system when they already know they will never win?

People speak about courage and honor, standing up and fighting those things someone finds wrong, and being cowards for running off..... I say those people who think they individually stand any possible chance against the US government and think they can win fairly in an unfair environment.... are just dumb-ass foolish.

When you can't trust your government and you can't trust your military, how can one expect to trust the legal system the government and military setup for you to run through?
 
EagleSmack
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Volunteering doesn't mean you give up every and all your rights for the system to do as they please with you. Volunteering isn't a blank cheque.

Volunteering for the military means you give up a lot of rights. You are also granted other rights but you are held more accountable than the common citizen. A citizen and even another soldier may say...

"Hey...that is not fair...he (I) has (have) rights."

True...you have the rights granted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Violating your sworn oath is not a right. They sign up and they are expected to serve out their full term including that of their IRR status.



Quote:

He already served his country, that's the whole point.

True...up to this point he has and has done so according to his contract. But he wants to be thought of as a poor courageous soldier who is being hunted by the big bad military. You guys are placating to this kid who isn't in any trouble at all!



Quote:

The favor is tilted to the system, so how does one expect them to actually make a stand in an environment where everything is against them? That's why they leave the country in the first place.

you can't really fight the system if you're thrown in jail before you can start.

Give him the forms he requests, finish the procedures set in place..... properly, and this person's situation will be finished and over with.

Why did he even leave? Nobody's charged him with anything. What he is doing is making your system look foolish. He's craves attention and he is really ridiculing those who ARE in serious trouble. He is taking resources from them because he likes being up on stage and being the center of attention.