Socialism works

whitedog
No Party Affiliation
+1
#1
I`ve often wondered whats wrong with Socialism. I really can`t find a fault. Wait a minute, I`m not talking about the kind which is viewed as Capitalism`s arch enemy, I`m talking about the kind where its something that's funded by society, so, I guess, yeah, socialism - common ownership (of the socially funded thing, whatever form that thing may take on) for someone's greater good, though not necessarily society's.

Example, public education, paid for by society - sure some pay more than others, some don`t even pay. Fire department, paid for by society. Health Care, roads, defense, police, social assistance,charities, political contributions, and RRSP`s, to name only a few. Oh I know, wait a minute, charities. political contributions, RRSP`s ? They're not paid for by society, no? Bob earns 40,000 and has a tax bill of 15%, 6000. Tom, earns 40,000, gives 1,000 to a charity of his choice, and reduces his tax by 300. But the government needs 12,000 to cover costs, so it either borrows 300,( only to introduce a new cost called interest - which places added pressure to either tax more, borrow more or cut services), raises tax's to get the additional 300, or reduces services. Ultimately, Bob will own a portion of the consequence of Tom giving money to a charity. Now I'm sure you all can argue the pluses of this program, and I certainly hope so, because that would be the socially responsible thing to do. Wait till Tom decides to pump money into his RRSP, and shifts even more tax burden onto the Bob's in the world, just so he can enjoy a better retirement. Sure bob can do that too, but if all the tom's and bobs do it, well, then the tax rates would simply be adjusted to zero out the tax effect of everyone paying less. But we all know, that not everyone can do it, but everyone owns the consequences of it. Thus, even RRSP's are socialistic programs. And I suppose we could do with a lesson on corporate socialism, where society pays for many corporate expenses, so that corporations can earn money. Another time perhaps. Maybe we should change the names of our leaders to Marx, Lenin and Mao. (You pick who's who.)
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+4
#2
Oh, this won't end well.

This won't end well at all.

Excuse me while I take cover.
 
CDNBear
+2
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

I`ve often wondered whats wrong with Socialism.

The people who run it.

Communalism works way better, it can even be democratic.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+5
#4  Top Rated Post
WOW. That is the biggest pile of drivel on here in a long time. Socialism only works well for the freeloaders. Others not so much, meaning that in a very short time it does not work for anyone. Especially future generations that will be footing the bill for today's socialism.
 
whitedog
No Party Affiliation
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

WOW. That is the biggest pile of drivel on here in a long time. Socialism only works well for the freeloaders. Others not so much, meaning that in a very short time it does not work for anyone. Especially future generations that will be footing the bill for today's socialism.

who said it works?
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+2
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

who said it works?

You. Remember you did the OP.
 
CDNBear
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

You. Remember you did the OP.

I think he's the ghost writers ghost poster.
 
55Mercury
+1
#8
Socialism is a perfectly valid concept - an ideal - what corrupts and invalidates it is the deluded notion that it can/should be sustained through public debt.
 
whitedog
No Party Affiliation
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

You. Remember you did the OP.

LOL. i guess you sorta have to read between the lines. Stop reading the titles. I'm friggin tired of hearing how bad social programs are, unless of course they have direct benefit. I don't want to pay more taxes just because you want to invest in your retirement, give to your local charity or politician. Paying for other peoples indulgences, now that's drivel.
 
CDNBear
+1
#10
My retirement investments are drivel?
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

My retirement investments are drivel?

I know mine are.

lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

LOL. i guess you sorta have to read between the lines. Stop reading the titles. I'm friggin tired of hearing how bad social programs are, unless of course they have direct benefit. I don't want to pay more taxes just because you want to invest in your retirement, give to your local charity or politician. Paying for other peoples indulgences, now that's drivel.

Usually the title though is a concise summation of the body of writing.
 
CDNBear
+2
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

I know mine are.

lol.

I never thought I'd hear someone call saving for a rainy day an indulgence and drivel.
 
whitedog
No Party Affiliation
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by 55Mercury View Post

Socialism is a perfectly valid concept - an ideal - what corrupts and invalidates it is the deluded notion that it can/should be sustained through public debt.

Whether its a good concept or not, the only social program that we will be able to sustain is the interest payments on the debt.
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I never thought I'd hear someone call saving for a rainy day an indulgence and drivel.

Well then it must have been a pleasant suprise then. Not at all like the predictable stuff that you usually read around here, lol.
 
CDNBear
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Well then it must have been a pleasant suprise then. Not at all like the predictable stuff that you usually read around here, lol.

True, but still made me make the Cosby face.
 
JamesBondo
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

Whether its a good concept or not, the only social program that we will be able to sustain is the interest payments on the debt.


Are you paying interest on 600 billion, or 1 trillion?
 
whitedog
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

Are you paying interest on 600 billion, or 1 trillion?

I do believe its on the trillion.8. Though will the recent sell offs of embassies, I'm hoping the number will go down to a trillion.4.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#18
All taxation is theft. All law is coercion. Public education, roads, immunization programmes, the military, Parliament, the courts, the police, border control. . . all violations of personal freedom, funded by robbery.
 
JamesBondo
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

I do believe its on the trillion.8. Though will the recent sell offs of embassies, I'm hoping the number will go down to a trillion.4.

ROTFLMAO

I so want to play poker with you. When you bet 600 dollars, I'm going to take 1000 dollars out of your kitty.
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

ROTFLMAO

I so want to play poker with you. When you bet 600 dollars, I'm going to take 1000 dollars out of your kitty.

That sounds a little dirty.
 
JamesBondo
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

That sounds a little dirty.

well, rounding 600 billion to 1 trillion is definitely dirtier than rounding 600 dollars to 1000 dollars, but I'm not sure that is enough to start calling him a dirty kitty.
Last edited by JamesBondo; Nov 10th, 2014 at 11:48 PM..
 
Walter
+4 / -1
#22
Socialism works till it runs out of other people's money.
 
El Barto
+2 / -2
#23
And capitalism only favours the wealthy

AS for the debt of a country , that is just criminal.
 
Angstrom
No Party Affiliation
+1
#24
Socialism will never work because of human nature.

Humans, in general will only work and produce until they achieve survival of their being.
Humans in general will only be as carefully as needed for them to achieve survival.

By removing all difficulty in a humans life, you are taking his purpose.
Everything we do is naturally hardwired to our natural disposition of survival.

By removing all difficulty in a humans life, you are also removing his number one drive to be skilled and proficient.

Make life to easy, the end result is a bunch of degenerate useless t i t s.

In the end anything can work as long as you have many people working hard to make it work.
 
whitedog
No Party Affiliation
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

well, rounding 600 billion to 1 trillion is definitely dirtier than rounding 600 dollars to 1000 dollars, but I'm not sure that is enough to start calling him a dirty kitty.

You're confusing net worth with debt. The net worth, according to the govt of canada, is around negative 611 billion, the debt is 1000.8 billion (or, forgetting .8 billion, 1 trillion.) But don't take my word for it, look it up on the Finance Dept.'s site. If you are really having trouble finding it, I can send you a link.
 
EagleSmack
+2
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

My retirement investments are drivel?


Complete and utter drivel. You didn't earn that.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+2
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Angstrom View Post

Socialism will never work because of human nature.

Humans, in general will only work and produce until they achieve survival of their being.
Humans in general will only be as carefully as needed for them to achieve survival.

By removing all difficulty in a humans life, you are taking his purpose.
Everything we do is naturally hardwired to our natural disposition of survival.

By removing all difficulty in a humans life, you are also removing his number one drive to be skilled and proficient.

Make life to easy, the end result is a bunch of degenerate useless t i t s.

In the end anything can work as long as you have many people working hard to make it work.

Of course. That's why societies that do everything by muscle power are superior to those with machines.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+2
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by whitedog View Post

LOL. i guess you sorta have to read between the lines. Stop reading the titles. I'm friggin tired of hearing how bad social programs are, unless of course they have direct benefit. I don't want to pay more taxes just because you want to invest in your retirement, give to your local charity or politician. Paying for other peoples indulgences, now that's drivel.

Looks like we got another one needs a lesson in economics.
You will have to explain, if you can exactly how my investing my own money in RRSPs raises your taxes.

Quote: Originally Posted by El Barto View Post

And capitalism only favours the wealthy

AS for the debt of a country , that is just criminal.

Not at all. Capitalism favors the ambitious. That is why they become wealthy.
Not even all sovereign debt is bad. Debt for infrastructure with a payment plan is good debt, especially if the work can be done during slow times. Debt to finance social programs or day to day operations is bad debt.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Of course. That's why societies that do everything by muscle power are superior to those with machines.


I am rolling on the floor.
 
Angstrom
No Party Affiliation
+4
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Of course. That's why societies that do everything by muscle power are superior to those with machines.


Capitalism, not socialism, drives us to be more efficient
Machines boost workers productivity.

And that's why capitalism works. It is based on a very strong human natural behavior.

Our drive to win.

What system is going to be more productive?
The system based on our drive to win?
Or
The system based on no matter what you do will take care of you?
Last edited by Angstrom; Nov 12th, 2014 at 05:48 AM..
 

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