The 2010 Charade (Winter Olympics)


Francis2004
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I don't see any problem with athletes having a venue to compete, but I do see a problem when pensioners like myself are going to have to foot a bill for $billions to impress the whole wide world because whoever did the estimates screwed it up. What excuse could there possibly be for a security est. of $150 million turning out to be a $billion? The persons doing the estimates obviously would never survive in business which includes giving estimates to prospective customers. A lot to do with the 2010 Charade has nothing to do with sports competition and much to do to show placing Vancouver to the world. We did that back in 1986 and who did we attract? A lot of the most undesirable type of immigrants and now we can't get rid of them.

Many of the "money" spent on sporting events like the Olympics and such focus on Athletes for which many new Medical procedures have allowed people to live longer like you JLM.. Like my last post said earlier, don't look at all the benefits to be in the limelight and directly tied to an event name. Sports Medicine has improved all our lives a whole bunch and that be with Football, Hockey, Baseball, Basketball or many of the other sports you can name.

If you start with stopping the Olympics, what next, the Superbowl, The StanleyCup...
 
Francis2004
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

And it's about time someone did something to clean up the drug invested nuthouse on the downtown east side.

Didn't they all move them from the Red light district back in the 1980's to find them all migrate to another area. Then they did a police push to find them all in Surrey to have the same problem again.

Surrey did the same to have them all in the Abbotsford area and back into the East end of Vancouver..

The issue will not go away and all you do is move the problem from district to district.

I think we would all get rid of them fast if we moved them all in tents onto Gordon ( Campbell ) and Carole ( James ) lawns..
 
gopher
#33
Question: does anyone know if Olympic events generate enough revenue to pay for the cost of new stadiums and infrastructural expenses? Or do communities lose money in the long run??
 
Kreskin
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by SirFrancis2004 View Post

Didn't they all move them from the Red light district back in the 1980's to find them all migrate to another area. Then they did a police push to find them all in Surrey to have the same problem again.

Surrey did the same to have them all in the Abbotsford area and back into the East end of Vancouver..

The issue will not go away and all you do is move the problem from district to district.

I think we would all get rid of them fast if we moved them all in tents onto Gordon ( Campbell ) and Carole ( James ) lawns..

I like that idea, especially them moving in with Carol James.

I'm all for being civil and everyone working together. But if the extreme left is only concerned with stirring up nonsense that can't be resolved (ie the Olympics won't be cancelled no matter how loud they yell) then I'd be ok with the gloves coming off and stirring back.
 
Kreskin
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

"And it's about time someone did something to clean up the drug invested nuthouse on the downtown east side."- All of that could be accomplished with money we are spending on the 2010 Charade.

Ya right. We're supposed to stop progress of any kind except build social housing and extra shooting galleries downtown? Does it occur to anyone that the best chance these people will have is to make one helluva impression on the world so that money will flow into the Province for decades?
 
Kreskin
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Question: does anyone know if Olympic events generate enough revenue to pay for the cost of new stadiums and infrastructural expenses? Or do communities lose money in the long run??

I don't know the numbers but it can and has. They are budgeted to. I remember hearing that Barcelona was and maybe still is the #3 tourist destination in Europe. It went from something like #20 to #3 for a decade and maybe more after their Olympics.
 
CanadianLove
#37
"Didn't they all move them from the Red light district back in the 1980's to find them all migrate to another area. Then they did a police push to find them all in Surrey to have the same problem again.

Surrey did the same to have them all in the Abbotsford area and back into the East end of Vancouver..

The issue will not go away and all you do is move the problem from district to district. "


That is a familie thing I think. You will see them get prenant and move out to Surrey to let their kids grow up away from the East Side and the parents ride the train in and out to sell drugs (day job like everyone else). Once the kids are old enough or get taken away from them they end up in the East Side full-time again. A majority of the players there don't even live there. If they are really fuked up on drugs they are not the players (maybe want-a-be's, but not players). The ones they have to get rid of are the one who travel in there to sell the drugs and get out. They are the ones smart enough to not have to live in that hell hole. Once they are gone the place will dry up.
 
talloola
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

DB you are obviously a frustrated Socialist/Communist, whatever. Very few of our athletes are from "privileged" families. In fact many work at part time jobs to pay for training, equipment, etc. Canada doesn't pay nearly what a lot of countries pay for athletes in training.

Except this time around, there is lots of money going to the athletes this time,
because canada wants their athletes to make them 'proud', government has deep
pockets, or I mean, we do, that's why there are so many canadian victories on
the world stage right now.
Last edited by talloola; Feb 15th, 2009 at 01:30 AM..
 
CanadianLove
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Question: does anyone know if Olympic events generate enough revenue to pay for the cost of new stadiums and infrastructural expenses? Or do communities lose money in the long run??

I think it was about 4-5 years ago Montreal finally finished paying for the 1976 Games.
 
#juan
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I don't see any problem with athletes having a venue to compete, but I do see a problem when pensioners like myself are going to have to foot a bill for $billions to impress the whole wide world because whoever did the estimates screwed it up.

That is just ridiculous. As a pensioner you probably don't pay a lot of tax and Canada is one of the richer countries in the world so a few million dollars in overruns are not going to break us. The overruns sure as hell are not going to be in the billions. Get a grip.

BTW, I'm a pensioner and I'm not worried about it.
 
Francis2004
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by CanadianLove View Post

I think it was about 4-5 years ago Montreal finally finished paying for the 1976 Games.

Montreal's big disaster was only the Stadium.. It was finally repaid in 2006.. Montreal was also summer Olympics and not winter as Vancouver's.

Quote:

Montreal's Olympic Stadium needs a new nickname — the Big Owe no longer applies because Quebecers have finally paid off their $1.5-billion debt from the 1976 Summer Games.


Officials from the Olympic Installations Board, which oversees the stadium, have confirmed that the last payment was made in mid-November, three decades after the world descended on Montreal for the Games.

The astronomical cost included the stadium, the Olympic village, a post-modern apartment building complex, a sports recreation complex, outdoor facilities, parking and the Vélodrome, which has since been refurbished as the Biodome.


Much of the debt was serviced through a special tax on tobacco.


Officials had estimated the debt would be cleared by September 2006, but the smoking ban introduced in May slowed down tobacco sales in the province, according to the Canadian Press.

Quebec's Big Owe stadium debt is over
Last edited by Francis2004; Feb 15th, 2009 at 02:04 AM..Reason: Added missing info
 
JLM
#42
I was never against OLympics per se, just this particular boondoggle. There is just too much wrong with it. Spending over $1 billion for Highway construction is just the tip of the iceberg. Someposters seem to want to ignore a 600% error in the estimate of security costs. Do that in real life and you're out of business.
 
gopher
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by CanadianLove;

I think it was about 4-5 years ago Montreal finally finished paying for the 1976 Games.

If that's the case, what did the city pay in terms of interest increments? Did the city lose teachers and police or other city employees in order to fund the costs for those games?

Same for Barcelona - when monies are directed towards the games, what goes unfunded? how much interest accumulates? and what of cost overruns??
 
Kreskin
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

If that's the case, what did the city pay in terms of interest increments? Did the city lose teachers and police or other city employees in order to fund the costs for those games?

Same for Barcelona - when monies are directed towards the games, what goes unfunded? how much interest accumulates? and what of cost overruns??

The Games are an investment. The cost of services are an expense. No person or entity handling finances should focus on doing only one and not the other.
 
gopher
#45
''investment''

That's precisely what people here say about communities paying for baseball and football stadiums. While the controlled news media says this is the greatest thing possible, cost overruns eventually lead to other projects going unfunded. Usually these are services such as sanitation, teachers, and educational programs. In St Paul and in Minneapolis, the politicians hae gotten us brand new stadiums. While they look impressive, we have lost over 1,000 teachers and other civil service employees and the quality of life has been reduced. That's a cost that is never quantified and is one I do not care to endure for myself and the community.
 
DavidB
#46
The Downtown East Side (DTES) is another story that I am sick of hearing about. I don’t know if anything can be done about it other than to simply bulldoze the whole neighborhood. Some people are responsible for their problems and there is nothing anybody else can do for them. The argument is similar to the Space Program Versus Poverty debate. We cannot put everything on hold until every single person in the world is well-fed. That will never happen. I don’t think the Olympics should have been turned down from coming to Vancouver; I am just tired of hearing about it ALL THE TIME.

On the positive side:
The Olympics definitely pressured politicians to upgrade the local infrastructure. The rapid rail line to the airport should have been done a long time ago. Same for the Sea-to-Sky Highway upgrades and the additional bridges over the Fraser River. Not only did the Olympics spur politicians to take action, money came too. And more will come. Most of these infrastructure improvements would have been done eventually, but they would probably have been paid fully by local people. With the Olympics, federal money came here, AND a huge injection of tourist dollars will come too, lessening the load on local people.

In addition, the Olympics will shine a big spotlight on the Vancouver area.


On the negative side:
I do not like how things are being managed. The Vancouver Olympics Organizing Committee (VANOC) has been quite heavy-handed, and bullying of people. Even to the point of copyrighting a whole slew of words and phrases relating to Vancouver, 2010, or the Olympics. Pretty ridiculous.

I do not agree with the heavy native presence in the Olympics. It might be quaint and appeal to tourists, but it is not a true reflection of BC or Canada. I was born and raised in BC, and the only time I come into contact with native activities is at tourist events. Even the logo sucks; I cannot buy into this. The temporary logo, with the waves and mountains, was much better. I wish Canada would stop promoting this image of us as being simple villagers, fishermen, lumberjacks, etc. Those mascots are pretty ridiculous too. We should be promoting more of our high-tech side.

Everything seems to be getting taken over by the Olympics. There is even a debate ongoing about whether local school boards should re-schedule spring break in 2010 to coincide with the Olympics. Reasons include giving older students an opportunity to volunteer during the games. But I think the more compelling reason is to reduce local traffic during the games. Supposedly, 600,000 school-related trips are made each weekday; by having schools closed during the Olympics, this traffic should be eliminated, leaving more room for Games-related traffic.

Also, I am pretty certain that the big spotlight that the Olympics will shine on Vancouver will reveal more bad than good. Even after all the infrastructure upgrades that have been made, the region is still about twenty years behind where it should be in terms of infrastructure. There are still too many bottlenecks, not enough roads and bridges, poor access to the ports, etc.

And taxes and bureaucracy are way too much. Honestly, if I were a businessman coming into Vancouver for the Olympics and I checked out the business environment around here, I would turn around and spread the word that Vancouver is not a good place to invest. Perhaps Vancouver is a nice place to visit, spend some tourist dollars, support some minimum-wage workers, but no place to set up a manufacturing plant or research facility. I think that is the message that will spread around the business world for many years following the Olympics.

Anyhow, that is my two cents.

Now I will go back into my cave, throw another log on the fire, and down a beer, because apparently that is what we Canadians do (duuuuuhhhh...).
 
Kreskin
#47
We hosted the World's Fair in 1986 and it was a huge propellant for growth in the subsequent years. With the world's eyes on Vancouver, this time by television, and if the weather is at all decent, the world will be blown away by what they see. The infrastructure will be used for years. Tourism will expand. People will move here. No investment is without risk but this is worth it.
 
JLM
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

We hosted the World's Fair in 1986 and it was a huge propellant for growth in the subsequent years. With the world's eyes on Vancouver, this time by television, and if the weather is at all decent, the world will be blown away by what they see. The infrastructure will be used for years. Tourism will expand. People will move here. No investment is without risk but this is worth it.

I often wonder if we hadn't had Expo '86 what the difference would be in the criminal gang activity in B.C.'s lower mainland today.
 
gopher
#49
'gang activity'


As I wrote on a previous thread -- we wasted millions of dollars on a pro hockey arena when we already had TWO in the Twin Cities. Because of that, funding was taken away from our youth programs. Today, we no longer have high school hockey in my neighborhood. St Paul is no longer known as the Capitol of hockey as our youth programs are now virtually non existent (and the drop out rate increased as well). This is the price we pay when we spend money on pro sports and divert money from our youths.
 
Francis2004
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I often wonder if we hadn't had Expo '86 what the difference would be in the criminal gang activity in B.C.'s lower mainland today.

I am not sure how you can equate Expo 86 to Gang related crimes ?

I think the Hong Kong to China transfer and immigrations and cash transfer with people influx would have had a greater impact then Expo 86.

Also the increase in immigration increase in the 1990 would also have brought more gang possibilities then anything else.

Especially if they are to be along ethenic, drug related / organized crime or biker style.
 
JLM
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by SirFrancis2004 View Post

I am not sure how you can equate Expo 86 to Gang related crimes ?

I think the Hong Kong to China transfer and immigrations and cash transfer with people influx would have had a greater impact then Expo 86.

Also the increase in immigration increase in the 1990 would also have brought more gang possibilities then anything else.

Especially if they are to be along ethenic, drug related / organized crime or biker style.

Yep, I'm not sure either, it's just that Expo 86 was touted as an event to show off British Columbia to the world and since Expo 86 there has been a marked increase in foreign gang activity and we also know there has been a lot of immigration to B.C. from Asia since 1986. I don't believe the influx around 1900 produced all that many gangs.
 
RanchHand
#52
Not only are the winter Olympics an 'oddity' compared to the summer Olympics, you have the added burden of holding it during a potential depression, not to mention the ceremonial aspect of the Chinese games still fresh in people's minds. From the pictures I have seen, I think I would love to live there. Maybe you're only hope is how the area is showcased as far as recouping costs. Then again, if I lived there, I would probably not want all the attention and development it may bring. I would move to Canada for the relative nearby peace and quiet, not a mini version of what I have here.


U.S. Olympic Committee plans to reduce staff and budget
By A.J. Perez, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Citing a foundering economy that has some sponsors slow to re-up, the U.S. Olympic Committee will reduce its workforce by up to 15% and institute other cost-cutting measures

U.S. Olympic Committee plans to reduce staff and budget - USATODAY.com
 
JLM
#53
I saw on the news at noon that the women ski jumpers have been denied permission to compete. I wonder whose idea that was in the first place. I never did hear what the reason was for it. Obviously I'm missing something important, but these Olympics have been undergoing plans for 6 years and 7 months before the big charade,it's decided they can't compete. I'm wondering if they have the right idiot planning this thing and what is the rationale behind this decision? Most of it's been screwed up from the get go so I suppose there's no use quitting now.
 
AnnaG
#54
Jeeeez. If they allowed women to jump off those things, they'd have to allow men to fall off the balance beams and try to twirl those ribbon things around. hehe Seriously, the Olympic committee's "reasoning" behind not allowing them to jump is that the "quality" of entertainment and competition wouldn't be as good as the men's jumping.
I think it was a bloody idiotic thing for the NDP to get us into, and I think that the Liberals are making a further mess of it, but I really hope BC doesn't get flushed into the proverbial bottomless pit of red ink. (Um, more than we are already I mean). I hope BC does come out of it ahead of the game.
(I know, reality will kick me in the behind for such an idea, but I can hope, can't I?)
 
JLM
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Jeeeez. If they allowed women to jump off those things, they'd have to allow men to fall off the balance beams and try to twirl those ribbon things around. hehe Seriously, the Olympic committee's "reasoning" behind not allowing them to jump is that the "quality" of entertainment and competition wouldn't be as good as the men's jumping.
I think it was a bloody idiotic thing for the NDP to get us into, and I think that the Liberals are making a further mess of it, but I really hope BC doesn't get flushed into the proverbial bottomless pit of red ink. (Um, more than we are already I mean). I hope BC does come out of it ahead of the game.
(I know, reality will kick me in the behind for such an idea, but I can hope, can't I?)

I didn't realize the N.D.P. were the perpetrators of this nonsense, thought it was Big Gord. I think any gov't. that wades into something like this should have the money in a separate account in the bank up front.
 
taxslave
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Giant waste of money. We will be paying for it for at least thirty years just so Gordon Campbell and his rich friends can show off. Meanwhile the disadvantaged have to get by with substandard health care and other services and living far below the poverty line. Sorry, but it is all a crock.

Sorry Cliffy but it was the Dippers that started us on the Olympic bid process. Campbell just made it work. I think the concept of hosting the games is a good one but the cost is out of hand. The OOC is largely responsible for this. We will find that the games are good for the economy though it would have been better if construction was just starting now while the economy is down and jobs are scarce. OTH our construction industry would have probably been in recession three years earlier without the games induced construction. Even the island will benefit from the games as several countries will be using Mt. Washington fro practices.
 
captain morgan
#57
the last number of Olympic venues have realized tremendous benefits in both the long and short term... There is a reason why the competition is so fierce among the different cities in being awarded the event.
 
JLM
#58
"Sorry Cliffy but it was the Dippers that started us on the Olympic bid process. Campbell just made it work."- We'll know by this time next year if "Campbell made it work". Guess the N.D.P. had a method to their madness- they knew they were going down big time by the year 1999, so they probably set this up for their successors and then they could just sit back and watch.
 
JLM
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

the last number of Olympic venues have realized tremendous benefits in both the long and short term... There is a reason why the competition is so fierce among the different cities in being awarded the event.

Yeah, but benefits for whom?.........not the wage slave.
 
#juan
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

It's time something dramatic happened with East Hastings anyway. It's about 10 blocks full of drug addicts that would prositute your mother in a heartbeat. It's time for those people to get lives. I say mow it down.

Those ten blocks of drug dealers and addicts are already breaking the law by living in condemned buildings. The concept of working for a living is completely foreign to these people. Separate any and all children that would be in danger, remove everybody from the hovels and bulldoze the dumps into the ground. Put these people to work...Invent jobs if we have to but get them to work. The experience will be good for them and it would likely be cheaper than the crimes they commit.
Last edited by #juan; Jul 11th, 2009 at 10:31 AM..
 

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