Motor Mouth: The inconvenient truth about EVs in cold weather


petros
#31
Bullshit.
 
Hoid
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

Electric cars are still pretty much as efficient as they were 140 years ago.

They remain 100% efficient if thats what you mean.

You must have had your head in the sand for the last 20 years if you've missed the revolution in battery technology.

Tesla can outperform any gas engine on the planet.
 
petros
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

They remain 100% efficient if thats what you mean.

You must have had your head in the sand for the last 20 years if you've missed the revolution in battery technology.

Tesla can outperform any gas engine on the planet.

Bullshit. To do so it needs to be fully charged. One run down the quarter mile and those results steadily diminish on concurrent runs.

Gas will be consistent all day.
 
10larry
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Cold weather has always been an issue with batteries and with automobiles in general.

All these same problems will be solved just as they were with all other engines.

DO you think gas engines perform as well in cold weather? There are dozens of things done to ensure they still function properly in extreme weather - which they do - to a point.

Altitude was a much more difficult problem.

Why answer your question about cold influence on gas engines with a flippant untruth about batteries? ices leaves em' in the dust hot or cold.

yes I have had many experiences of batteries performing even better in cold weather.
 
Jinentonix
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

They remain 100% efficient if thats what you mean.

You must have had your head in the sand for the last 20 years if you've missed the revolution in battery technology.

Tesla can outperform any gas engine on the planet.

Well the "goofs" involved in Formula-E must be clueless then. Most racing series teams bring two cars in case one gets totaled during practice or qualifying. In Formula-E, they bring two cars because one car can only make it about halfway through the races that are 80-100 KMs long. These are the most advanced, high performance electric cars in the world. We're talking names like McLaren, Williams and Renault to name a few.
And no, they don't remain 100% efficient. They have a mileage rating like every other vehicle. And everything that requires electricity to operate draws power from your power supply thus reducing it's overall efficiency.
Turn the heat on in your EV while you're driving. What does it do to your estimated driving distance? It lowers it. Turn on some tunes, what happens? You lower it even more. Your fuel efficiency is directly affected by what cabin comforts you want and/or what safety features you need at the time. The only feature that affects fuel efficiency in an ICE powered car is a/c. I'd hate to see the kind of draw a/c has on an EV's power source.

And how are you charging that EV? Unless your power supply is 100% emissions-free, then the above brings efficiency into even greater question.
 
Hoid
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by 10larry View Post

Why answer your question about cold influence on gas engines with a flippant untruth about batteries? ices leaves em' in the dust hot or cold.

yes I have had many experiences of batteries performing even better in cold weather.

what planet were you on?

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

Well the "goofs" involved in Formula-E must be clueless then. Most racing series teams bring two cars in case one gets totaled during practice or qualifying. In Formula-E, they bring two cars because one car can only make it about halfway through the races that are 80-100 KMs long. These are the most advanced, high performance electric cars in the world. We're talking names like McLaren, Williams and Renault to name a few.
And no, they don't remain 100% efficient. They have a mileage rating like every other vehicle. And everything that requires electricity to operate draws power from your power supply thus reducing it's overall efficiency.
Turn the heat on in your EV while you're driving. What does it do to your estimated driving distance? It lowers it. Turn on some tunes, what happens? You lower it even more. Your fuel efficiency is directly affected by what cabin comforts you want and/or what safety features you need at the time. The only feature that affects fuel efficiency in an ICE powered car is a/c. I'd hate to see the kind of draw a/c has on an EV's power source.

And how are you charging that EV? Unless your power supply is 100% emissions-free, then the above brings efficiency into even greater question.

I guess that's why we have to phase out all carbon burning electrical generation.

If you want to talk about thermal efficiency read up on it first and understand why electric engines are theoretically 100% efficient.

If you put one unit of energy into an electric motor is will result in i unit of work being done. Whether is it propelling the vehicle or heating the vehicle or lighting the vehicle - every bit of the energy put in results in work being done.

No so a gas engine. I believe in the very best of them (which are generally electric hybrids) have about 45% efficiency - meaning when you put one unit of energy into one you get .45 units work out.

Normal gas engines are more along the lines of 30% - and that is when they are in top working condition using pure fuels.

They are intrinsically wasteful (heat being the big robber) and that is why the universal adoption of them has been so harmful.
Last edited by Hoid; Jan 28th, 2018 at 05:43 PM..
 
JamesBondo
#37
once you bring canadian winters into the equation it changes the rules about what is a good design and what is not a good design.

we've seen this in other examples, too. Coleman fuel is not a better fuel for camping than propane, yet when you are icefishing in -40C, propane is pretty much useless and naptha gas shines

wood isn't considered an efficient way to heat a house, but once you get the woodstove going there seems to be no shortage of heat. this is what most people love about wood.

people tend to think of a car as the economical choice, but not true when travelling to the mountains from calgary with an RV, boat, 3 ATVs and the whole fam damily. A pick up truck is the clear winner here. Even if you could move everything with a small car, the multiple trips would burn through many tanks of fuel.

clearly, heating the interior of a car with battery power will never be a good choice. it is dumb for hoid to defend this.
 
petros
#38
8 years equivelent of driving a gas vehicle goes into producing a Tesla battery that lasts 5 years.

Gasoline engines are technically more efficient.
 
10larry
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

what planet were you on?

<snip>

Haven't moved still the same one where gas power trumps battery power every time, plz expand on your experience(s) of battery power improving as the temperature drops.
 
Hoid
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

once you bring canadian winters into the equation it changes the rules about what is a good design and what is not a good design.

we've seen this in other examples, too. Coleman fuel is not a better fuel for camping than propane, yet when you are icefishing in -40C, propane is pretty much useless and naptha gas shines

wood isn't considered an efficient way to heat a house, but once you get the woodstove going there seems to be no shortage of heat. this is what most people love about wood.

people tend to think of a car as the economical choice, but not true when travelling to the mountains from calgary with an RV, boat, 3 ATVs and the whole fam damily. A pick up truck is the clear winner here. Even if you could move everything with a small car, the multiple trips would burn through many tanks of fuel.

clearly, heating the interior of a car with battery power will never be a good choice. it is dumb for hoid to defend this.

it is dumb not to understand that the electric motor will replace the gas motor.

these batteries can propel a car at world record speeds.

heating a cabin is nothing.

the new tesla semi is claiming that it will take only 2 years of fuel savings to make up for the price difference.

Quote: Originally Posted by 10larry View Post

<snip>

Haven't moved still the same one where gas power trumps battery power every time, plz expand on your experience(s) of battery power improving as the temperature drops.

literally trumps it in nothing.

it is cheaper - but that s only because of the money already spent on it. IN 5 years the e motor will also be cheaper to make - it is already better in every regard
 
gerryh
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

these batteries can propel a car at world record speeds.



what are considered world record speeds for electric. Still less than half of what fuel powered vehicles hold the record at.... think faster than sound.
 
B00Mer
+1
#42
Why Norway and I say Hydrogen is the future..
 
Hoid
#43
hydrogen may well be the future
 
petros
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Why Norway and I say Hydrogen is the future..

Natural gas. 13 cents for a L equivalent at home if you spend $2000 for car/light truck home fill compressor and $7000 for the compressor and 4 250L storage tanks for filling on demand. As soon as New Holland, Case IH or John Deere offer NG tractors I'll be the first guy to order. At 13 cents L a 200 gallon fill up is $101

How much more would you make if ol Phantom 309 was running NG?

My fuel consumption per season costs are just shy of $15,0000 and to get down to $1900 would be a huge.
Last edited by petros; Jan 28th, 2018 at 11:03 PM..
 
B00Mer
#45
NG in -40 humm
 
petros
+1
#46
Works just fine. CNG at 3200psi is all gas not a liquid like propane at lower pressure or LNG which forms at 3600psi.
 

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