Who was this man Jesus Christ?

Count_Lothian
#1
I realize this is a Christian thread and I might come off as an atheist bashing Christ.

Please do not read it as such ,for I am no Atheist.

This man Jesus , I believed lived and did die as told.

I also want to see him through the lens of something grounded and reality based .

All the supernatural myth surrounding the man , lets put aside for a moment.

He lived and was totally devoted to his religion.

He talked with the leaders and teachers in synagogues all his life.
Obviously, for his life was one of devotion to God and his religion.

What he did bring to the table was an offshoot of the traditional and tried to make it available to the gentiles.

This would not do with the Jewish leaders and teachers.

So they plotted to have him killed.

He must have been a man of great charisma for he had large audiences with people.

After his death a myth grew and grew.

If one takes away the myths , one sees a charismatic man who wanted to bring the message of this one God to all of the Roman Empire and the known world.

Buddha was in a lot of ways the same.
There were no miracles performed by Buddha just teachings passed on for two hundred years orally before compiled as a Theravada, predating the mystical Mahayana teachings.

Buddhism today is considered magical for many a believer.

So it seems these great thinkers become gods, even if thats not what they intended.

I really do not think Jesus was wandering around telling everyone ,especially his disciples, that he was God.

He would never have had the following .
 
Motar
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

This man Jesus, I believed lived and did die as told. I also want to see him through the lens of something grounded and reality based.

Excellent topic, CL. Thank you for posting it.

In his human context, Jesus Christ is Jewish. In Jewish culture, proper names have meaning. Etymologically speaking, the proper name "Jesus" and the title "Christ" have the following meanings:

Jesus
late 12c. (Old English used hælend "savior"), from Greek Iesous, which is an attempt to render into Greek the Aramaic proper name Jeshua (Hebrew Yeshua) "Jah is salvation," a common Jewish personal name, the later form of Hebrew Yehoshua (see Joshua ).
Online Etymology Dictionary

Christ (n.)
title given to Jesus of Nazareth, Old English crist (by 830, perhaps 675), from Latin Christus, from Greek khristos "the anointed" (translation of Hebrew mashiah; see messiah ), noun use of verbal adjective of khriein "to rub, anoint" (see chrism ). The Latin term drove out Old English Hæland "healer, savior," as the preferred descriptive term for Jesus. Online Etymology Dictionary

Named by his parent(s) and entitled by his followers, the etymological meaning of the proper name and title "Jesus Christ" is anointed savior/healer.
Last edited by Motar; May 13th, 2014 at 02:29 PM..
 
Count_Lothian
#3
Why thank you Motar.
Very informative.
I feel his life should be told as close as possible to the reality it was.
so hmmmm Jesus Christ is not his name given to him at birth.
What would you think his real name , the one his mom and dad would call him was?
Joshua was his name?
 
MHz
#4
Would He have used 'inside knowledge' to build a faster sail-boat than anybody else on the Sea had? Water skies for the walking on water thing but still being able to tell all sorts of demons to scat and they scat without argument.

Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

What would you think his real name , the one his mom and dad would call him was?
Joshua was his name?

Eldest, I have something for you to do. And then it would get done.
 
Motar
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

Why thank you Motar.
Very informative.
I feel his life should be told as close as possible to the reality it was.
so hmmmm Jesus Christ is not his name given to him at birth.
What would you think his real name , the one his mom and dad would call him was?
Joshua was his name?

His birth name would be Yeshua bar Yehosef, Hebrew for Jesus, son of Joseph, CL.
 
Count_Lothian
-1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

Excellent topic, CL. Thank you for posting it.

In his human context, Jesus Christ is Jewish. In Jewish culture, proper names have meaning. Etymologically speaking, the proper name "Jesus" and the title "Christ" have the following meanings:

Jesus
late 12c. (Old English used hælend "savior"), from Greek Iesous, which is an attempt to render into Greek the Aramaic proper name Jeshua (Hebrew Yeshua) "Jah is salvation," a common Jewish personal name, the later form of Hebrew Yehoshua (see Joshua ).
Online Etymology Dictionary

Christ (n.)
title given to Jesus of Nazareth, Old English crist (by 830, perhaps 675), from Latin Christus, from Greek khristos "the anointed" (translation of Hebrew mashiah; see messiah ), noun use of verbal adjective of khriein "to rub, anoint" (see chrism ). The Latin term drove out Old English Hæland "healer, savior," as the preferred descriptive term for Jesus. Online Etymology Dictionary

Named by his parent(s) and entitled by his followers, the etymological meaning of the proper name and title "Jesus Christ" is anointed savior/healer.

Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

His birth name would be Yeshua bar Yehosef, Hebrew for Jesus, son of Joseph, CL.

you said Jesus meant something spiritual?

So back to the supernatural story and not the human reality.
Pity a man who gave us his life and so much and his real name lost forever and replaced with the mythical.

very sad.
Honour would show proof of itself, if but a name was kept for prosperity.
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#7
I am trying to look at the man and what possably could be the truth of his life here on earth.

Buddha was title given to Siddhartha well after His death.

captain morgan you come into the thread and give me a red and then not comment .
It's obvious from what Motar expresses the name is an honorary title given to this man sometime at a later date and not at birth.

so you can't handle the truth .
You can't handle the truth! (Jack Nicholson) - YouTube
 
relic
#8
I won't give you a red, but I will say you're crazy as a ****house rat.
 
Count_Lothian
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by relic View Post

I won't give you a red, but I will say you're crazy as a ****house rat.

For asking a man's birth name?

And wondering why he ends up with a title and not a name.
 
Motar
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

For asking a man's birth name? And wondering why he ends up with a title and not a name.

The title "Christ" pre-dates the incarnation, CL.

Christ (n.)
title given to Jesus of Nazareth, Old English crist (by 830, perhaps 675), from Latin Christus, from Greek khristos "the anointed" (translation of Hebrew mashiah; see messiah ) ... Online Etymology Dictionary

messiah (n.)
c.1300, Messias, from Late Latin Messias, from Greek Messias, from Aramaic meshiha and Hebrew mashiah "the anointed" (of the Lord), from mashah "anoint." This is the word rendered in Septuagint as Greek Khristos (see Christ ). In Old Testament prophetic writing, it was used of an expected deliverer of the Jewish nation ... Online Etymology Dictionary

Another title ascribed to Jesus is "Emmanuel", CL.

Emmanuel
masc. personal name, from Greek form of Hebrew 'Immanu'el, literally "God is with us," from 'immanu "with us," from 'im "with," + first person plural pronomial suffix, + El "God." Online Etymology Dictionary

This title can be found in Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23. This title also pre-dates the incarnation.
 
Count_Lothian
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

The title "Christ" pre-dates the incarnation, CL.

Christ (n.)
title given to Jesus of Nazareth, Old English crist (by 830, perhaps 675), from Latin Christus, from Greek khristos "the anointed" (translation of Hebrew mashiah; see messiah ) ... Online Etymology Dictionary

messiah (n.)
c.1300, Messias, from Late Latin Messias, from Greek Messias, from Aramaic meshiha and Hebrew mashiah "the anointed" (of the Lord), from mashah "anoint." This is the word rendered in Septuagint as Greek Khristos (see Christ ). In Old Testament prophetic writing, it was used of an expected deliverer of the Jewish nation ... Online Etymology Dictionary

Another title ascribed to Jesus is "Emmanuel", CL.

Emmanuel
masc. personal name, from Greek form of Hebrew 'Immanu'el, literally "God is with us," from 'immanu "with us," from 'im "with," + first person plural pronomial suffix, + El "God." Online Etymology Dictionary

This title can be found in Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23. This title also pre-dates the incarnation.

Yes i understand as I said it is a title.
But and here is the big but!

That was not the kid's name at birth.

But I could be mistaken.

It just seems highly unlikely to name him such a thing at birth.

And I don't think others gave their kids names like this.
 
Motar
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

Yes i understand as I said it is a title. But and here is the big but. That was not the kid's name at birth.
But I could be mistaken. It just seems highly unlikely to name him such a thing at birth. And I don't think others gave their kids names like this.

Agree, CL. Other Hebrew children were not named like this:

"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[ f ] because he will save his people from their sins.' (Matthew 1:20-21 NIV)
f. Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[ g ] (which means 'God with us'). (Matthew 1:22-23 NIV)
g. Isaiah 7:14

Unless you consider the baptist, John. (Luke 1:11-17 NIV : )
 
Twila
#13
Has anyone read the book Zealot by Reza Aslan? If you have, please share your thoughts.

I've just read a small review here: Book review: Zealot by Reza Aslan | Rationalist Association

Seemed pretty interesting.
 
Spade
#14
Yeshua ben Yosef was an itinerant rabbi who help reinterpret the notion of the divine.
 
gerryh
#15
Who was this man Jesus Christ?





If one is truly interested in knowing the answer, then ask him yourself.
 
Nuggler
+3
#16  Top Rated Post
JESUS CHRIST ! Who was this man ?
 
Motar
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

This man Jesus, I believed lived and did die as told. I also want to see him through the lens of something grounded and reality based ... He lived and was totally devoted to his religion. He talked with the leaders and teachers in synagogues all his life. Obviously, for his life was one of devotion to God and his religion. What he did bring to the table was an offshoot of the traditional and tried to make it available to the gentiles.This would not do with the Jewish leaders and teachers. So they plotted to have him killed.

The following account of Jesus and a Samaritan women validates a number of your observations above, CL.

"Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon. When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) The Samaritan woman said to him, 'You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?' (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.) Jesus answered her, 'If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water. 'Sir,' the woman said, 'you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?' Jesus answered, 'Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.' The woman said to him, 'Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.' He told her, 'Go, call your husband and come back.' 'I have no husband,' she replied. Jesus said to her, 'You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.' 'Sir,' the woman said, 'I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.' 'Woman,' Jesus replied, 'believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.' The woman said, 'I know that Messiah' (called Christ) 'is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.' Then Jesus declared, 'I, the one speaking to you—I am he.' (John 4:4-26 NIV)

According to Jewish culture and practice at the time, Jewish holy men went out of their way to avoid public, personal contact with Samaritans, lay persons and unmarried, unrelated women. Samaritans were Jews who were racially and religiously mixed with Gentiles. And this Samaritan woman had a reputation.

Imagine the affront to the Jewish religious ruling authority. Jesus went out of his way to meet this Samaritan women who had been marginalized by her own people. Notice his humble persistence in spite of her initial hostility. Also note how she gradually softens as he gently leads her from false religion to faith.
 
gopher
+2
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

Why thank you Motar.
Very informative.
I feel his life should be told as close as possible to the reality it was.
so hmmmm Jesus Christ is not his name given to him at birth.
What would you think his real name , the one his mom and dad would call him was?
Joshua was his name?



Yeshua was his correct name = there is no letter J in Hebrew or in Greek
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

Agree, CL. Other Hebrew children were not named like this:

"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[ f ] because he will save his people from their sins.' (Matthew 1:20-21 NIV)
f. Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[ g ] (which means 'God with us'). (Matthew 1:22-23 NIV)
g. Isaiah 7:14

Unless you consider the baptist, John. (Luke 1:11-17 NIV : )

The thread has veered into the twilight zone.

I cannot find any reference to this man's real name.

If you are telling me angels told his dad to name him a word that points to messiah , and his father did it. Well I can't imagine this kid not being beat up daily. Kids can be cruel and I doubt at the time if the people of the town would allow his father to give his son such an honorific title instead of a name.

Please drop the hocus pocus , at least in this one thread.

The only virgin birth on record i heard was this:
TOM WAITS just listen to 1:20

Tom Waits (Big Time 198 [13]. Train Song - YouTube
 
Motar
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

The thread has veered into the twilight zone. I cannot find any reference to this man's real name. If you are telling me angels told his dad to name him a word that points to messiah , and his father did it. Well I can't imagine this kid not being beat up daily. Kids can be cruel and I doubt at the time if the people of the town would allow his father to give his son such an honorific title instead of a name. Please drop the hocus pocus, at least in this one thread.

This is a Christian Discussion forum, CL. Christ is bound to come up in conversation : )
 
Count_Lothian
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

This is a Christian Discussion forum, CL. Christ is bound to come up in conversation : )

So then you wish me to stop discussing the man and pick up the supernatural .

I think it's time to show you who jesus really is.

he is hope,faith and lack of courage.

The courage it takes to live this life as only your self.
No marvel comics group of hero and heroines to magically aid you.

it takes courage to live life as a person .
 
Motar
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

So then you wish me to stop discussing the man and pick up the supernatural I think it's time to show you who jesus really is. he is hope,faith and lack of courage. The courage it takes to live this life as only your self. No marvel comics group of hero and heroines to magically aid you. it takes courage to live life as a person .

Why not discuss the God/man Jesus, CL?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Yeshua was his correct name = there is no letter J in Hebrew or in Greek

To be fair, there's no "Y," "E," "S," "H," "U," or "A" in Hebrew or Greek either.
 
Count_Lothian
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Motar View Post

Why not discuss the God/man Jesus, CL?

Plenty of threads with that concept in it.

I say to you the man never wanted this absurdity of a religion to become even.

The myth , if you really believe this guy walked on water and you really need that sort of thing in your life,no problem.
I take the bits and pieces and those more than likely to have actually taken place ,impose the thought the guy must have been really nice to have people love him so much.

Think of the time he went berserk with the money changers ,and basically the politics going on in and around and which became part of the synagogue. This tells you what he saw and what he believed was worth dying for.

Then the ultimate slap in the face,he gets turned into a comic strip hero.

His name used to create laws and hang people in his name.

His name used to go to crusades and cause blood baths.

The ultimate last century. Two World Wars where priests blessed the troops on both sides and said he was on their side and pray to him to protect you in the trenches and in the air.

People praying to him , billions of prayers weekly on this planet go to him.
Trillions since time of his debut as a comic strip hero.

And the only real answer , coincidence and stretching the truth to suit the myth.

This thread is about reality and trying to see the man for what he was.
 
Twila
+3
#25
This guy is called Bagel Jesus. From what I had heard / read / been told about Jesus, this guy seems to embody that spirit well.

 
gopher
+2
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

To be fair, there's no "Y," "E," "S," "H," "U," or "A" in Hebrew or Greek either.



 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#27
By Jove, I do believe he's got it!
 
Motar
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

By Jove, I do believe he's got it!

Jove or Jupiter is the chief deity and the god of sky and thunder in the Roman pantheon.
 
Shebaisrael
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Count_Lothian View Post

Yes i understand as I said it is a title.
But and here is the big but!

That was not the kid's name at birth.

But I could be mistaken.

It just seems highly unlikely to name him such a thing at birth.

And I don't think others gave their kids names like this.

Food for thought; Exodus 4:22 Israel is my son, even my first born. Hosea; 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. Mathew 2:15 And was there untill the death of Herod: that it might be fullfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet saying, out of Egypt have I called my son.
 
Ludlow
#30
Good question. After over fifty years of thinking about that question, my answer would be, "I do not know."
 

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