The foundation of Christianity is based on ignorance


Ludlow
#31
I'm not Christian but I would ask, ignorant of what?
 
gerryh
+1
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

At risk of derailing the thread there is the not igsignificant matter of the churches hiding knowledge of pedophile priests.


The churches aren't the only ones that have done or do that.
 
Nick Danger
+1
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

The churches aren't the only ones that have done or do that.

True, but those that place themselves in a position that engenders the trust of their followers should be held to a higher standard, like police or teachers. In a lot of aspects the betrayal of that trust is a more heinous infraction than the crime itself.

To nudge this thread back toward the original topic, while ignorance may not be a foundation of Christianity, I think that a lot of religions have come to depend on the blind trust of others. Especially those that hang on to concepts and ideas that will not stand up to close scientific scrutiny.
 
gerryh
+1
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

True, but those that place themselves in a position that engenders the trust of their followers should be held to a higher standard, like police or teachers. In a lot of aspects the betrayal of that trust is a more heinous infraction than the crime itself.

To nudge this thread back toward the original topic, while ignorance may not be a foundation of Christianity, I think that a lot of religions have come to depend on the blind trust of others. Especially those that hang on to concepts and ideas that will not stand up to close scientific scrutiny.



The original topic was Christianity exclusively. Hence the topic header, "The foundation of Christianity is based on ignorance". It has pretty much been proven now, by your own admission, that the OP is incorrect.
 
Nick Danger
+1
#35
Incorrect as stated, but not totally without merit. I believe that many tenets of Christianity do not ring true in a literal context, but are still taught as "truth" within the faith. But that is the essence of "ignorance" isn't it? To know you are doing something wrong but carry on with it anyways ? I believe the more progressive Christian faiths are embracing a metaphoric approach to Biblical stories, where literal belief is not required but the moral message remains intact.
 
gerryh
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

Incorrect as stated, but not totally without merit. I believe that many tenets of Christianity do not ring true in a literal context, but are still taught as "truth" within the faith. But that is the essence of "ignorance" isn't it? To know you are doing something wrong but carry on with it anyways ? I believe the more progressive Christian faiths are embracing a metaphoric approach to Biblical stories, where literal belief is not required but the moral message remains intact.


On the whole, how many Christian sects are literalists compared to those that are not?
 
Nick Danger
#37
Beats me. Where would you even look that up?
 
gerryh
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

Beats me. Where would you even look that up?



You used the word "many". Just asking you to be more specific instead of using a word that is very subjective.
 
Danbones
#39
Some say there are over 30,000 separate kinds of Christianity
https://theway21stcentury.wordpress....ons-worldwide/
which one is the true faith?
 
gerryh
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Some say there are over 30,000 separate kinds of Christianity
https://theway21stcentury.wordpress....ons-worldwide/
which one is the true faith?



I think the statement at the end says it best.



"critics of christianity have work to do before they can realistically define the degree of division."
 
Danbones
#41
...and on the other hand the fact that christians can't?
After Protestantism was invented, the religious wars took out about a third of Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ion#Death_toll
that was just basically TWO forms
 
Ludlow
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

Beats me. Where would you even look that up?

There is no statistic for that.
 
Nick Danger
+1
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post

There is no statistic for that.

That sounds about right, especially since the landscape is continually changing. If you dig around on the web you can find statistics to support many different points of view, it all depends who is publishing the so-called "facts". How "many" is not important, the point is that there are differing viewpoints all falling under the umbrella of "Christian", and there is a trend toward a softening of the hard line approach to Biblical writings and just what form "God" takes. It has become plain that the concept of God as the bearded super being with a pocket full of miracles is not enough for some, that it stretches believability to the breaking point. People are being asked to accept on faith that which is in opposition to their perception of the real world and that is becoming increasingly difficult for many. Thus the "cult of ignorance" is no longer working for growing numbers of Christians, they are having trouble accepting a point of view that is mired in tradition to the point of antiquity. People still want the moral lessons, but the traditional vehicle for those teachings is increasingly seen as "last year's model". A metaphorical interpretation of the Bible offers a compromise, an avenue to hang on to the moral lessons without the turmoil of having to accept as true the thought that Noah could actually fit two of every species on the planet into a boat, or that Christ did in fact, rise from the dead.
 
Ludlow
#44
Some parts are figurative and some are not. A better word than metaphor would be emic. Pretty much the majority of literal writings would be the letters of Saul. As far as Jesus goes, he didn't write anything but it is well known that he taught the Jewish people using parables., which are figurative messages. This is what has been written about him.
 
Danbones
#45
parables...sounds like Hollywood
 
Corduroy
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

"The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree? Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. You eat this apple, you're going to be as smart as God. We can't have that."

Frank Zappa

Does that mean Adam and Eve were as smart as God?
 
taxslave
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post

Does that mean Adam and Eve were as smart as God?

Smarter. They questioned what they were told.
 
Walter
+1
#48
Bourdain: Casualty of Leftist Mindset
https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...t_mindset.html
 
the_sign
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

"The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree? Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. You eat this apple, you're going to be as smart as God. We can't have that."

Frank Zappa

"When Moses was conversing with God in the burning bush, God told Moses that if he were to see God's glory straight on, he would die.

The devil's trick was to make Eve think that this was not so."

Edward Palamar
 
Cliffy
-1
#50


Hahahaha, Wally strikes again....


 
Harikrish
#51
Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Eve's dilemma!! Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.[b] She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right? It was God that lied.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying .

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

Harikrish.
Last edited by Harikrish; Oct 10th, 2018 at 05:03 PM..Reason: Typo
 
Jinentonix
#52
Quote:

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

God didn't write the Bible, man did. And god didn't write it through man either.
 
MHz
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

God didn't write the Bible, man did. And god didn't write it through man either.

Of course He didn't, Dear. How much should you trust men who would lie to you?

2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
 
Cliffy
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Of course He didn't, Dear. How much should you trust men who would lie to you?

2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

They lied to you and you think it is gospel.
 
ShintoMale
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

They lied to you and you think it is gospel.

yet you posted a quote from admitted satan worshipper Frank Zappa in another thread
 

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