Do you really know Narcissistic Psychopathy?


mayety
#1
Dec 15, 2001, he telephoned on his way home to say that because of the heavy snowstorm the timing would be off, so let’s go out for dinner. Fine!
At the restaurant he said if I ordered a second glass of wine, he would walk out on me. He had his beer and I had one glass of wine before we ordered. When we ordered he asked for another beer, but I was ‘not allowed’ another wine. I accepted the second glass, he shoved back his chair, threw down a $20 and walked out leaving me on my own. What? Nuts!
I ate my dinner and took my time, called a taxi and the driver took me to the rear of the house where there was a boardwalk leading to the ramp in. It was covered with snow, as was my car which we passed on the way, but the driver ploughed me through it and up to the door.
I went in and noticed first off that the Christmas decorations were gone from the fireplace. I was wiping the wheels of my chair, and finally reached the door to the living room and there he was, drinking a beer and “smoking in the house”. I asked what was going on, as I approached the fireplace to see everything neatly arranged on the hearth and he ‘lost it’. He said I had ruined Christmas!
He flung a toss (Aha! That’s where the name came from!) pillow at a big plant on the coffee table under the front window and sheared all the stems and leaves, then picked up the container and dumped all the earth on the carpet (I had watered that day, so was slightly muddy!) No point in stopping him, so I backed up and watched as he threw his portable phone at the stone fireplace. Shattered! Pulled off his wristwatch and threw it at the fireplace. Shattered! Picked up his beer, took another slug and upended it onto the carpet, then ground out a cigarette in the puddle. He pulled off his turtleneck sweater and ripped it to shreds, then his T-shirt and ripped it to shreds, the went for the wall hangings and broke over his knee all the ones his grandfather had done by hand.
I still said and did nothing. I sat in front of my computer which was to the right of the fireplace and he came toward me with a look in his eyes that meant me and /or my computer. I stared him down and he backed off. I asked him if he were finished and he threw himself onto the sofa, sobbing! I readied for bed, taking my time, then went for him and he was like a little boy needing a mother, as I took his hand and led him to bed, no longer dangerous.
I did no cleanup. The next morning it was all up to him to do, which he did and then said he was going to sell everything , go live under a bridge, then eventually climb up and jump off it. I told him to make sure the bridge was a high one.
Such a snowfall! The next day, after that, he said if I gave him my car keys he would back my car out and clean it off for me. My ! My! How nice!. A first! But why have to back it out?
I was at my computer when he came in and told me that my car was damaged. I was shocked. I went out and it was dented from stem to stern including the roof, but he had already called the police and was making up a story about who it likely was. Immediately I knew he had done that on the Friday evening after leaving the restaurant, then the continuing snowfall covered it up for those next 2 days. $1500.00 damage. He saw to it that my car was completely fixed, and I didn’t even have to pay the deductible. Yep had to be him! I was going to be out of there as soon as I found a decent place to live. He admired my finished car day after day after day and it was June/02 before I found an apartment.

We’re over and done and I know how many times he was in jail and the worst was a drunken car race when he was young, hitting a VW beetle and killing the 15 year old driver.

What he did, at the beginning when we met, was like hold up a mirror on his chest, facing me, and what I saw and heard was him, in agreement with my thoughts and interests, a person in tune with me, the two of us a matched set, never more than slight disagreements, and those were fixed in a moment.
But the mask cannot stay in place forever. It slips. It cracks. Those who are informed would have seen through him. I didn’t. I was an innocent about Narcissistic Psychopathy and to try to explain this to someone who has not experienced it, is like trying to define all the colours to a person blind from birth.

The above was only one of many incidents, after his mask slipped, but trying to leave is another matter. It takes careful planning!
 
Ariadne
#2
And ... are you okay today?
 
mayety
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post

And ... are you okay today?

Thank you for asking, Ariadne

I am fine. The only way out is to get out, then have NO CONTACT whatsoever. Contact only carries the horror, while No Contact brings about freedom from pychopathic control. and fear!
 
Cliffy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by mayety View Post

Thank you for asking, Ariadne

I am fine. The only way out is to get out, then have NO CONTACT whatsoever. Contact only carries the horror, while No Contact brings about freedom from pychopathic control. and fear!

Glad to hear you made it out. It is not that uncommon a situation. I know several women who have been through similar situations.

I kinda liked Lorraina Bobbitt's solution.
 
Ariadne
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by mayety View Post

Thank you for asking, Ariadne

I am fine. The only way out is to get out, then have NO CONTACT whatsoever. Contact only carries the horror, while No Contact brings about freedom from pychopathic control. and fear!

That's right. When the phone rings, don't answer it. When the door knocks, don't answer it. When you see the person on the street, turn around and go the other way. Banish all thoughts, but purge them on random forums when the urge arises.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Glad to hear you made it out. It is not that uncommon a situation. I know several women who have been through similar situations.

I kinda liked Lorraina Bobbitt's solution.

Many women fall for the guy that, to them, looks like the father that gave them good guidance, but in reality is a freak attempting to control their every action and sip of wine.

Bobbit only addressed infidelity, whereas I think the second glass of wine is in another category.
 
hermite
#6
I sure know all about it. I was conned out of thousands of dollars, and a car, but I never got any of it back.

You are absolutely right, though, about people not being able to comprehend it, unless they've been there themselves. And then there's the many who will blame you, for being so dumb.

What's really sad is the DSM-V (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), due out in 2013, will no longer use the term 'narcissistic.' Instead they will be referred to as 'anti-social.' I hope you participate at a forum where NPD is discussed daily by hundreds of people who have encountered it so that we can keep awareness of it in the open.

I wish you peace and a better future.
 
CDNBear
#7
I have to ask. After the first incident, why stay?

We had the mother of my youngest boys friend on our front porch crying about her abusive boy friend. We comforted her, gave her a place to stay for the night. But she let him stay. My youngest actually stood up to the guy when he heard him berating her one time. Fight after fight, damaged room, belongings after damaged room and belongs, he was finally arrested for domestic assault.

The next time we saw her, she was crying and telling us how good a person he was when he wasn't drinking.

I kicked her off my porch.
 
hermite
+1
#8  Top Rated Post
Like I said, it's impossible to understand unless you've been a victim. Now, we don't know anything about your friend's situation so can't really comment on it. Who knows what was at play there.

With the narcissist personality though, when you first meet they are like a dream come true, your soul mate. As the OP pointed out, they hold up a mirror. They are good at finding people who have a lot of empathy, as they have none themselves. Then once they have you all hooked in, they start doing weird little things; it's called gaslighting. You can be having a conversation and they will say something totally unrelated to anything. You ask why they said that and they say they never said that. They continue to tell you that there is something wrong with you, and when someone tells you that for a while, you start to wonder if maybe they're not right.

Then, many dollars and broken furniture later, you finally GET IT. There is nothing wrong with you, it's them. And you throw their sorry ass out. Well, you try. Then it gets really weird.

I'm actually writing a book about the whole experience which went on for 5 years. I'll send you an advance copy Bear, then maybe you can understand a little better.
 
Ariadne
#9
It's not that simple. Although the boyfriend may have been abusive, he probably didn't look like it ... at first. He probably looked innocent enough, and probably prepped the first abusive event with plenty of sorry stories about how people were so mean to him, that he was so nice, and that people always took advantage of him. Once that thought was properly planted, the abuse can start, leaving the victim wondering if she is perceived as just another mean person, like all the other mean people ... because she really does love him, but she's not a mean person, but he might think she's mean because she doesn't give him another chance ... and so it starts.

Others will stand up to the guy, because they haven't been seduced with the bull****, but the target person; the victim; is protective of him in spite of family opposition. That is the first step towards isolation from friends and family. The family tries to protect the victim, the victim cannot help but protect the abuser ... because the abuser has twisted the way she perceives things.

It is not the fault of the victim. That person is severely manipulated, gradually and with purpose, until they will say that black is white, up is down, mean guys are good guys, and family doesn't know what they are talking about. Don't be too quick to judge. Stats say it can happen to any woman, regardless of circumstance.

If you really want to help, give her a safe house, food, a car, and opportunity.

Quote: Originally Posted by hermite View Post

Like I said, it's impossible to understand unless you've been a victim. Now, we don't know anything about your friend's situation so can't really comment on it. Who knows what was at play there.

With the narcissist personality though, when you first meet they are like a dream come true, your soul mate. As the OP pointed out, they hold up a mirror. They are good at finding people who have a lot of empathy, as they have none themselves. Then once they have you all hooked in, they start doing weird little things; it's called gaslighting. You can be having a conversation and they will say something totally unrelated to anything. You ask why they said that and they say they never said that. They continue to tell you that there is something wrong with you, and when someone tells you that for a while, you start to wonder if maybe they're not right.

Then, many dollars and broken furniture later, you finally GET IT. There is nothing wrong with you, it's them. And you throw their sorry ass out. Well, you try. Then it gets really weird.

I'm actually writing a book about the whole experience which went on for 5 years. I'll send you an advance copy Bear, then maybe you can understand a little better.

The narcissistic personality asks a lot of questions, seems interested, always wants to do the right thing ... a dream come true soul mate. In fact, they will probably raise the topic of soul mate to see if the victim thinks there is only one "right" person in the world. They seek out women that will have a lot of empathy simply because those women have never encountered anything like their abuse ever before in their lives, and they have no defences.

I like what you say .. they say that they never said that ... and so it goes. They tell you that you don't know up from down, and eventually you question yourself. That's exactly how it goes.

If you want a second person to review the book ... forward copy.
 
CDNBear
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by hermite View Post

Like I said, it's impossible to understand unless you've been a victim.

I've been a victim. I didn't like it, I made changes to myself and my environment to make sure I wasn't a perpetual one. Saying someone won't get it unless they've been there is a cop out.

People don't like going to a food bank or living hand to mouth, they do something about it.

People don't want to live in the city, they do something about it.

It is just that simple.

Quote:

Now, we don't know anything about your friend's situation so can't really comment on it. Who knows what was at play there.

I know what's at play, a weak person with fears of being alone. If a man threatens a woman, good bye man. It is as simple as that. To allow it to go on, escalate and then get violent. Especially with kids in the house, is ridiculous.

Quote:

With the narcissist personality though, when you first meet they are like a dream come true, your soul mate. As the OP pointed out, they hold up a mirror. They are good at finding people who have a lot of empathy, as they have none themselves. Then once they have you all hooked in, they start doing weird little things; it's called gaslighting. You can be having a conversation and they will say something totally unrelated to anything. You ask why they said that and they say they never said that. They continue to tell you that there is something wrong with you, and when someone tells you that for a while, you start to wonder if maybe they're not right.

Then you aren't self aware. I'm fat, if someone tells me I'm skinny long enough, I'm going to think they ain't right.

Quote:

Then, many dollars and broken furniture later, you finally GET IT.

How is it you don't get it the first time? I write people off over the fact that they will drink before hunting. I wrote off my best friend because his drug habit isn't healthy. It is just that simple.
Quote:

There is nothing wrong with you, it's them.

That's absolutely right.
Quote:

And you throw their sorry ass out. Well, you try. Then it gets really weird.

Then you dial 911. With the present domestic laws, it is as simple as that.
Quote:

I'm actually writing a book about the whole experience which went on for 5 years. I'll send you an advance copy Bear, then maybe you can understand a little better.

I'd actually appreciate that very much, sincerely.
 
Ariadne
#11
It's not the same as recognizing and eliminating "negative (e.g.: drugs, reliability, etc.)" people that occupy your time and are part of your life. That's easy. What is being discussed, is, in my opinon, far more difficult, and an entirely different beast.
 
CDNBear
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post

It's not the same as seeing "negative" people that occupy your time and are part of your life, and eliminating them. That's easy. What is being discussed, is, in my opinon, far more difficult, and an entirely different beast.

Really?

My best friend, a man I would have died for, someone that I let live in my house, where I won't even let my own brothers live, as close to me as my wife and kids.

Written off, as easy as I type these words.

As soon as a threat is presented, you take action.

If you allow that threat to continue, you become part of the problem.
 
hermite
+1
#13
Here is the best article I've read about NPD. Close Encounter with a Narcissist – Part 1 planetjan

My time here for the day has come to an end. I've enjoyed the discussion and will check back in tomorrow morning. Have a great day, all.
 
Ariadne
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Really?

My best friend, a man I would have died for, someone that I let live in my house, where I won't even let my own brothers live, as close to me as my wife and kids.

Written off, as easy as I type these words.

As soon as a threat is presented, you take action.

If you allow that threat to continue, you become part of the problem.

Agreed ... but that's assuming there was no pursuasion of thought or perspective. If someone presents themselves as a victim, one naturally feels empathy. That is what the perpetrator portrays to the real victim ... that they are the victim (everyone was mean) that deserves empathy. That empathy is exploited in ways that have never been exploited beforein that person and there is sympathy for the perpetrator by the victim, and for the victim by friends and family ... the general public is outraged. That sympathy is grabbed onto and quickly turned into good fun and a clever twist ... until the next cycle hits the wine glass stage.

Quote: Originally Posted by hermite View Post

Here is the best article I've read about NPD. Close Encounter with a Narcissist – Part 1 planetjan

My time here for the day has come to an end. I've enjoyed the discussion and will check back in tomorrow morning. Have a great day, all.

I would be interested in reviewing the book that you have been writing for five years about the second glass of wine. How far along is it?
 
CDNBear
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post

Agreed ... but that's assuming there was no pursuasion of thought or perspective.

This is where I'm going to have to admit, I see weakness. I mean no disrespect or mean to detract from the responsibilities of the parties involved. But I see weakness. If you can't take what is said to you and either further investigate it, or already know yourself enough to know it's BS. Then there's an issue with your self worth.

I've been called a narcissist, I immediately looked into it, because I saw traits that I had. Thank God on close inspection, thankfully, I'm not. It turns out I'm just naturally dominant, knowledgeable and powerful. But I'm quite capable of emotional relationships. In one for 17 years, no signs of stress, and never an inkling of violence.
Quote:

If someone presents themselves as a victim, one naturally feels empathy. That is what the perpetrator portrays to the real victim ... that they are the victim (everyone was mean) that deserves empathy. That empathy is exploited in ways that have never been exploited beforein that person and there is sympathy for the perpetrator by the victim, and for the victim by friends and family ... the general public is outraged. That sympathy is grabbed onto and quickly turned into good fun and a clever twist ... until the next cycle hits the wine glass stage.

OK, but we aren't simply talking about an emotional vampire here. We're talking about a crime.

I don't care how low your self worth is, a crime is a crime. We are tought from childhood that no one should lay a hand on you, nor should they destroy your possessions.
 
Ariadne
+1
#16
Yes, a crime. Somehow, I think the Hermite means to suggest that the crime is so sleakly introduced and perpetrated that even the victim defends the perpetrator. It's not Stockholm's Syndrome, but there are similarities.
 
CurioToo
+1
#17
Reading the opening recount I think the person discussed has more than "narcissism" - and is exhibiting psychopathology of a deeper nature....and I am especially alarmed the man has already killed one innocent in his list of failures.

Cruelty like this can result in harm to others - even murder - and I was relieved the writer is no longer in contact - in fact I almost stopped breathing thinking of how far this event being described could have escalated.

I hope the writer will not have any future contact and the person being discussed has either been helped or had an intervention before
more damage is exhibited.

Narcissists are easily distracted into anger and violent behavior if they are questioned and/or mocked but they are chameleons who can change from madness to love in a heartbeat in order to win another conquest. They are very confused individuals constantly reworking their "societal appearances" in order to be accepted by those necessary to them but are best left at the sidewalk rather than being invited into anyone's life.

CDNBear

Dear Bear - respect for self and strength of conviction is never to be confused with narcissism - Over the years I've seen you take the time to rework a conversation which has gone astray in which you demonstrated great care and time to be clear with your opponent
in an exchange. A narcissist will collapse and stamp away in accusation and insult when a win cannot be found in his/her mind.
 
Said1
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Really?

My best friend, a man I would have died for, someone that I let live in my house, where I won't even let my own brothers live, as close to me as my wife and kids.

Written off, as easy as I type these words.

As soon as a threat is presented, you take action.

If you allow that threat to continue, you become part of the problem.

I agree with you to a certain extent, however a lot of these people do indeed stop whatever it is they are doing long enough to convince you they have changed....somewhat. Listen Bear, I consider myself a fairly smart, realistic person who lives on earth most of the time and I was there for the better part of 20 years. I can't explain what happened, I never took crap off of anybody, ever. I do know now that he was an extension of things that are far to personal for me to discuss on an open forum - he wasn't the only person in my life who treated me that way, both are gone, good riddance. hahaha!
Last edited by Said1; Dec 28th, 2010 at 10:15 AM..
 
mayety
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I have to ask. After the first incident, why stay?

I had my name on the list for accessible housing, for a long time, and many people were more disabled than I, so.........
I also owned all the furniture, etc, and was 50% partner in our business. I knew I could handle things while looking for a place to live, and watching the business bank account reach an acceptable balance that he would pay the government taxes and not have them come after my personal accounts, while I awaited the dissolution papers of our partnership. (We had put in equal amounts of Capital to set it up---when I was not making any money I wrote myself a cheque for my share and took it back. I did the books, free, as it turned out and had signing authority.)

The timing was perfect, all coming to gether in 6 months, and I had a home, my accounts were safe, and he, stupidly, asked, when I said I was moving out, "This is kind of sudden, isn't it".

It just amazed me that he never saw half of what he was doing and I expect the other half was 'planned' for crazy-making.
 
lone wolf
+1
#20
...and we fool ourselves into thinking it will get better.
...and we make excuses for their poor behaviour.
...and for some, even a bad relationship is better than being alone.

Used one or two myself. In the end, I didn't like the person the crazy-making behaviour was painting me. Wanna know how to abuse a narcissist?

...just say NO

That word doesn't come easy to emotional vampire need....
 
Dixie Cup
#21
Wow - this situation describes my 1st marriage to a T and brings back bad memories. Fortunately, it didn't take me long to get physically out of the situation; mentally, it took some time. He was was wonderful in the 2 years we knew each other and the year we dated until the wedding was over and changed literally overnight! I still can't believe how the whole thing happened.

While my parents Divorced when I was 15, there had never been violence in my family situation so when he started "batting" me around, I left. No kids, thank heaven so it was easier.

When I married for the second time, the first 4 years were the hardest - just trying to relax and really trust again. I was blessed by a man who is kind, patient and really loves me, so here we are, 34 years later and going strong. In retrospect, I shudder to think what could have been had I not left and where I'd be.
 
karrie
#22
I have a girlfriend trapped with a man like this as we speak. He of course waited until after she was pregnant and married to him to change completely, drop the mirror as you put it, and show what he was truly like. It's a constant source of stress for my family and our circle of acquaintances. But, with two beautiful little toddlers in the picture, we can't make the tough decisions for her.
 
Ariadne
#23
Hermite, I hope you continue with the discussion. I think it's cathartic ... not only for you, but maybe for others too. Women that have been in your situation are typically ashamed, and they rarely find a place where they can honestly discuss their memories and experiences without getting the rolly eyes and looks implying that you're exaggerating, or wondering why you didn't just get up and leave.

I just watched a really funny show about two people that hooked up, got pregnant ... and then the baby is born. I think it is the first show I've ever watched that came with a warning that "some adults may find the content offensive". Anyway, it all ended up happy with a video camera, smiles, and family. Watching a show like that can bring women back to the memory of their own birth experiences. I was looking at the video camera ... thinking ... hmmm ... hookup ... family ... camera ... preserving memories. Then I thought back to when my son was born. There were no cameras. In fact, I think the only thing the soon to be first time father remembered to bring to the hospital was a joint. This isn't to suggest he isn't normally responsible with some degree of professionalism ... but that was his frame of mind on that occassion. (that last sentence is the typical comment made to protect the guy that isn't being a good guy)

I don't think your experiences are unusual or unknown, but I do believe there is a cone of silence on the reality of the situation. There is still a public perception that women in those situations deserved it, or they saw it in their own childhood so no wonder they found that situation as an adult, or that they can leave anytime ... it's good to talk about, even anonymously. Discussing one or two different memories here may help refine your book ideas. I'm sure that if you were concerned about the public nature of the discussion ... maybe Andem could figure out a way to make the discussion password request. On the other hand, the public nature of the discussion also brings community awareness and with it, community responsibility.

Guys like this could take a woman to Syria and ditch her just for kicks and giggles ... or because they perceived a "wrong" and wanted to get even.

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I have a girlfriend trapped with a man like this as we speak. He of course waited until after she was pregnant and married to him to change completely, drop the mirror as you put it, and show what he was truly like. It's a constant source of stress for my family and our circle of acquaintances. But, with two beautiful little toddlers in the picture, we can't make the tough decisions for her.

Some men change overnight when they get married. Many find that hard to believe, but it's almost as though that man has a facade that he presents, always hiding himself ... a facade that can be maintained for a long time without slipping. He slips a little, but he exlains it's because his last girlfriend was so cruel. He did everything for her, and she screwed him, so he sometimes behaves badly, but he'll make it up. He buys a new dress, or a nice dinner. It's hard to recognize as the cyclical honeymoon/abuse pattern, especially if it's completely new ... like not having the equipment to deal with it. Besides, it starts gentle ... each time escalating just a tiny bit. Anyway, overnight, after the wedding, the facade can drop so fast. The honeymoon abuse cylce is actually a cycle that can be charted like the moon, although sometimes it's every 14 days, not 28. Maybe suggest to your girlfriend that she put a little X in the corner of each day on the calendar to chart the cycle of abuse (generally unpleasant disposition) ... probably makes it easier to work with.

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

...and we fool ourselves into thinking it will get better.
...and we make excuses for their poor behaviour.
...and for some, even a bad relationship is better than being alone.

Used one or two myself. In the end, I didn't like the person the crazy-making behaviour was painting me. Wanna know how to abuse a narcissist?

...just say NO

That word doesn't come easy to emotional vampire need....

Yes, the word no is very powerful with the controlling, manipulative narcissist. I have to agree that watching a narcissist have a melt down is entertaining ... but when they get over it, it has usually upped the ante ... a bit. Kicks and giggles with a price.

Quote: Originally Posted by CurioToo View Post

<snip>
A narcissist will collapse and stamp away in accusation and insult when a win cannot be found in his/her mind.

Interesting. A narcissist does stomp away and barricade himself when losing the battle. The narcissist is so inwardly focused, feeling wronged, and wanting to lash out with accusation and insult that personal attacks do not even seem petty or inappropriate for the discussion.

Actually, even a narcissist will piss his pants when confronted with a woman that stands up for herself. The problem is that the narcissist then ups the ante, and before she knows it he has his hands around her neck. Soon after she finds herself with not quite enough for a cup of coffee, her friends and family have stepped back, her car insurance is cancelled, and the phone is missing. Imagine if the phone was missing and while looking for something for dinner, the phone was located in the freezer. That's pretty weird ... that wouldn't happen. That's just plain too weird ... for any woman not to leave right there and then.
Last edited by Ariadne; Jan 1st, 2011 at 05:26 AM..
 
Ariadne
#24
Narcissistic psychopathy ... what an odd term to be dicussed on forums ... eh.
 
TenPenny
#25
Nobody changes overnight. People change somewhat over time, but one's innate personality doesn't. The whole point to 'dating' is to find out what sort of person a potential mate really is.

Based on divorce statistics, we are not good at working this out.
 
darkbeaver
#26
We buy cars with more attention to detail than our selection of mates.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#27
Excellent read. Thank you.
 
lone wolf
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

Nobody changes overnight. People change somewhat over time, but one's innate personality doesn't. The whole point to 'dating' is to find out what sort of person a potential mate really is.

Based on divorce statistics, we are not good at working this out.

They don't change overnight. They change all the while they're window-dressing - morphing into your perfect match. What they really do is hit the brake when they're sure the hook is set hard and fast - ie: take off the mask and revert back to the original.
 
Said1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

We buy cars with more attention to detail than our selection of mates.

I would say we pay less attention to them, it's just harder to over look or deny a rusty fender or shot rear brakes.
 
mayety
#30
Eight years after I left that NP Disordered person, I am now back to myself and respect myself, forgetting all the disrespectful things that he had done to me. I found other jobs to do, beginning with volunteering that very year, 2002, meeting people, then finally becoming the computer person I was to be in the business, keep the books, build websites, give instructions, do minor fix-its, by phone or in person. My self respect grew back, but slowly.

Meanwhile I saw, in the newspaper that he sold the Company van, without my signature, sold 2 pieces of his grandmother’s antique furniture,…that he had parentally always treasured, and rented out rooms in the house---all I expect, for income.
Then the Taxation Department began calling me. I said I was no longer involved but this was his landline and this was his cell line. They never bothered me again but he had to go to court to pay 7 years back taxes.

He never ‘protected me’, so why ought I ‘protect’ him? He was brought down, not by me directly, but by his own sense of being ‘above the law’ and his ‘grandiose schemes’.

‘Brought down’, I expect was temporary as they never change and I never did anything so that he would know that I had been [partially] behind it. I never feared him after I left.
M

Happy New Year , Everyone!