Turn off the taps


Hoid
#1
BC has gone to court to invalidate Kenney's turn off he taps law. Regardless of the outcome the episode illustrates that gasoline is done as a plentiful affordable fuel source for BC. It just isn't working.and is setting up to become even more unworkable in the future.
The answer is electricity. BC is a major producer of it and already has the infrastructure in place.
Rather than keeping this unworkable system struggling along BC should commit all the cash they normally shovel over to the oil industry and put it into electric vehicles.
The only other thing to do would be o build refining capacity in BC and that is simply not going to happen - for he same reason that pipelines are untenable. Modern environmental laws are far too stringent.
So we are left with demanding a product from another jurisdiction that we will not allow to be produced in our own. It is a logical fallacy.
I would far prefer to get fleeced by converting over to electric than to get fleeced to stay with gasoline - and make no mistake, regardless of what happens BC is going to be paying up.
 
Mowich
Conservative
+4
#2
So horgan is going to court to prevent AB from turning off the taps. This after he mired the province in another court case to prevent twinning of the KM line. Personally, I doubt that Kenney would be stupid enough to actually try to do so considering it would be a constitutional question which he and the province would undoubtedly lose. Lougheed was able to do something similar and win because he left the oil in the ground. If it weren't for those facts, I would back AB all the way even if it meant that those of us in the Interior who in the majority support twinning the line will have to tighten our belts.

While those on the Left Coast are paying upwards of 1.71 for a litre of gas, here in the Heartland we are paying anywhere from 27 to 30 cents less. I filled up at Forest Grove the other day and the price was 1.44/l and most of that was due to the new carbon tax increases. Horgan has plenty of money to throw away on expensive court cases and even more expensive lawyers to fight them but he just capped government spending on fighting forest fires this summer at the 2017 level. The forecast for this summer is once again.......hot and dry. Good luck with your under funded fire fighting budget you stupid, ill-informed, Left Coast thinking dolt. It is a good thing you rarely if ever show your face outside the lower mainland and the Island as you would be about as popular as that other dolt - the little potato.
 
Hoid
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

So horgan is going to court to prevent AB from turning off the taps. This after he mired the province in another court case to prevent twinning of the KM line. .

Actually it was 6 first nations that took it to the court of appeal
 
Kreskin
+2
#4
It's time to throw out any party clinging to the enviromentalist agenda, especially those who promote shit like carbon taxes.
 
Hoid
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

It's time to throw out any party clinging to the enviromentalist agenda, especially those who promote shit like carbon taxes.

The BC Liberals brought in the BC carbon tax, not the NDP.
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
+2
#6
Alberta has the right to export what they produce. Besides, if they don't build pipelines, more towns will be incinerated by train wrecks in the future.
 
Hoid
#7
Alberta can do whatever it wants to do and so can BC.

BC will no be getting any of Alberta's increased oil by rail - that's all going to the Gulf.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Alberta can do whatever it wants to do and so can BC.

BC will no be getting any of Alberta's increased oil by rail - that's all going to the Gulf.

....at a huge discount over global prices to the US.
 
Hoid
#9
that's between Alberta's oil companies and the US refiners.

Has nothing to do with BC but it seems the Alberta oil companies need a scapegoat.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+3
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

that's between Alberta's oil companies and the US refiners.

Has nothing to do with BC but it seems the Alberta oil companies need a scapegoat.

Canada's Constitution specifically puts inter provincial transportation in the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. A long line of cases recognize that interprovincial pipelines are a mode of transportation. The case law has also long been clear that provinces cannot exercise their jurisdiction in ways that interfere with interprovincial transportation. Trudeau's bullshit is just bullshit vote buying divisive politics to try and get Western Canadians fighting with each other and it worked!

Its one of the few things the Little Potato actually got right (was most likely Butts idea, but it worked) and people like you that're too blind to see that Trudeau has Western Canadians fighting among themselves over this to divide and conquer the nation as he screws it into a financial hole just blows me away. The Trans Mountain Pipeline twinning was and is a no brainer and should be at least 1/2 built by now except for the Federal Liberal's waffling when they should have stepped in and got the ball rolling to the betterment of the nation....but they did what they did and here we are. I hope that history will show that Trudeau is the treasonous divisive retard that he really is and that an actual potato could have done less damage in 4yrs as the Prime minister of Canada than Justin Trudeau has done.

Alberta turning off the taps is wrong, but BC obstructing the pipelines is equally as wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right, but the second wrong points out the hypocrisy of the first wrong. Horgan can say both are wrong or both are right, but much like Bylaw Bobby of the FSIN, he's got to pick one stance and stand by it for both situations. BC can't have its cake and eat it too. Either a province can obstruct inter provincial transportation or it can't. I see BC's law suit against AB as an admission of fault in its two facedness in the whole pipeline issue.

BC obstructing inter provincial transportation with respect to the pipeline forces AB & SK resources from open markets and into dealing predominantly with the US market at pennies on the dollar. You simply can not be as dense as you pretend to be here on this forum but others that are might actually believe the malarkey you're spewing on this topic and that's shameful. Personally I think you're pretty bright and I'm assuming most of your stances here are taken solely to troll the gullible, but sometimes you have to look out for those that don't have your level of intelligence and throw them a bone in letting them know that you're doing your thing in an antagonistic position just to get your rocks off and that nobody is really as politically dense as you pretend to be here much of the time. You may think it's funny to get the dumb ones to almost drink antifreeze becouse it looks like Lime Soda, but the key word is almost because actually getting them to do it is psychopathic like Justin Trudeau man!!

You've got your shtick and you do it well & drive many bonkers in your tenacity when driving the wrong way down a one way street and telling everyone else that they're going the wrong way....but you're smart enough to know which way the street signs point, and eventually you have to let the dim ones in on the joke Hoid 'cuz that's part of the humor in a joke. You've got to throw in some subtle clues every so often that you're pulling their legs.
 
Hoid
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Canada's Constitution specifically puts inter provincial transportation in the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. .
[/SIZE]


While this may be true it hardly covers every aspect of the situation.

BC has every right and the responsibility to protect its environment from any threat.
 
Hoid
#12
And let's settle one thing right now: the TM expansion is no going to result in lower gasoline prices in BC.


That is just ridiculous to even suggest,

The people of BC need to confront reality. We are going to be gouged without mercy - so we might as well accept that fact and move on to electric. Gas is a dead end for us. At least electric offers some long term hope.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+3
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

And let's settle one thing right now: the TM expansion is no going to result in lower gasoline prices in BC.
That is just ridiculous to even suggest,
The people of BC need to confront reality. We are going to be gouged without mercy - so we might as well accept that fact and move on to electric. Gas is a dead end for us. At least electric offers some long term hope.

So just shut in the BC Oilfield in it's infancy? They just proved over a Billion barrels of Oil reserve last year
 
Hoid
#14
what has that got to do with gasoline?

there has never been a lack or scarcity of oil driving gas prices in BC
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+3
#15
Where do you think Gasoline comes from?

That oil in Northern BC is shipped down to Edmonton then back to Vancouver in the TMPL to the refineries
 
Gilgamesh
+2
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

So horgan is going to court to prevent AB from turning off the taps. This after he mired the province in another court case to prevent twinning of the KM line. Personally, I doubt that Kenney would be stupid enough to actually try to do so considering it would be a constitutional question which he and the province would undoubtedly lose. Lougheed was able to do something similar and win because he left the oil in the ground. If it weren't for those facts, I would back AB all the way even if it meant that those of us in the Interior who in the majority support twinning the line will have to tighten our belts.

While those on the Left Coast are paying upwards of 1.71 for a litre of gas, here in the Heartland we are paying anywhere from 27 to 30 cents less. I filled up at Forest Grove the other day and the price was 1.44/l and most of that was due to the new carbon tax increases. Horgan has plenty of money to throw away on expensive court cases and even more expensive lawyers to fight them but he just capped government spending on fighting forest fires this summer at the 2017 level. The forecast for this summer is once again.......hot and dry. Good luck with your under funded fire fighting budget you stupid, ill-informed, Left Coast thinking dolt. It is a good thing you rarely if ever show your face outside the lower mainland and the Island as you would be about as popular as that other dolt - the little potato.

B.C like the rest of us is getting exactly what it deserves. By electing Green Luddites and NDP fools and vandals, they have no reaso to complain.

In basic terms Horgan might be considered a near-traitor to the Province.
 
Decapoda
+5
#17  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

BC has gone to court to invalidate Kenney's turn off he taps law. Regardless of the outcome the episode illustrates that gasoline is done as a plentiful affordable fuel source for BC. It just isn't working.and is setting up to become even more unworkable in the future.

First, it's not Kenny's law, it was Notley's. Second, there actually are no taps to turn off. Might want to read up, Sport. Horgan and all the other brain-dead morons who are unable to add 1+1 should be dancing in the streets in celebration. This is what BC wanted, this is the entire purpose of Federal Liberal strategy...impose punitive carbon taxes and bring in pipeline/tanker blocking legislation to make fossil fuel production and use prohibitively expensive and economically nonviable in order to force change. There's also the added bonus for Trudeau of creating division and turmoil between provinces.

Kenny is just assisting BC and the Federal Liberals in their idealistic plan to force transition from fossil fuels to alternate means. Someone should sit down and explain to Horgan in simple, understandable words that his side wins...there's no need to be a sore winner.
 
Decapoda
+3
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

So horgan is going to court to prevent AB from turning off the taps. This after he mired the province in another court case to prevent twinning of the KM line. Personally, I doubt that Kenney would be stupid enough to actually try to do so considering it would be a constitutional question which he and the province would undoubtedly lose.

There actually are no taps to turn off. What the legislation does is essentially gives Alberta the authority to control what's flowing through the pipeline and in what volume. The pipelines are multi-use, they can ship crude, dilbit, or refined product depending on current need.

If someone wants to ship product through the pipe, the new legislation would require them to apply for a licence which Alberta Government would then decide if they will allow it. This would give them the ability to control the ratio and amounts of each product to be shipped. They could then decide it is in Alberta's best interest to ship more crude through the pipe, which would proportionally affect how much refined fuel could be shipped. This is exaggerated by the fact that when refined product is sent through the pipe, it must be "cleaned" on the other end before it can be used, due to the presence of other products being sent previously. The more crude is sent down the line, the more any refined product that follows must be cleaned, and therefore the more expensive it becomes at the pump.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

And let's settle one thing right now: the TM expansion is no going to result in lower gasoline prices in BC.


That is just ridiculous to even suggest....

I'll address the rest of this post when time permits, but with "Supply & Demand" having a shortage increases prices and access to a surplus generally decreases prices. Something to factor into BC's gasoline prices is it's own taxes on top of the federal tax & then that all gets stepped on with the GST to boot. If the taxes are factored out then what is the cost of gasoline in Vancouver? $1.10/L or so? Maybe less? Damn greedy oil companies aren't the only ones to blame in BC regarding Gasoline prices.

 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+3
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

The people of BC need to confront reality. We are going to be gouged without mercy - so we might as well accept that fact and move on to electric. Gas is a dead end for us. At least electric offers some long term hope.

&

Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

While this may be true it hardly covers every aspect of the situation.

BC has every right and the responsibility to protect its environment from any threat.

BC, AB, SK, Etc...all have the right and the responsibility to protect themselves. To protect their environments. To protect their resources. To protect their economies.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kell..._autoplay=true

How rich is it that the province of British Columbia, which has done so much to prevent Alberta from shipping more oil, has gone to court to force that province to keep sending as much of the stuff as possible?

If B.C. Premier John Horgan has any grasp of irony at all — not to mention a sense of the truly ridiculous — he must look in the mirror and see Jim Carrey. It would take the sort of mind behind the creation of Ace Ventura to fully appreciate the absurdity of the position B.C. has manufactured for itself thanks to its determined posturing and preaching on the matter of oil pipelines and climate change.

Horgan’s government went to court Wednesday to shake its fist at Alberta, insisting that new Premier Jason Kenney has violated the constitution by proclaiming a new law enabling him to shut off the taps that send oil to B.C.

Horgan’s New Democrats claim the law should be rejected because it targets just one province: theirs. Of course, since the pipeline in question only goes to one province — there being no other provinces between Alberta and the Pacific — it would be impossible for it to do otherwise. And Alberta has been making the exact same argument about Ottawa’s Bill C-48, which would place limits on tanker traffic along the B.C. coast, which Alberta says is a single-minded attack on its energy industry, and which enacts restrictions that apply to one coast but not the other.

Horgan became premier just under two years ago, and has had all that time to get along with Rachel Notley, a fellow New Democrat who served as Alberta’s premier until Kenney displaced her two weeks ago. He couldn’t manage it. Notley was a big champion of measures to protect the environment and reduce Alberta’s outsized production of greenhouse-gas emissions. She couldn’t do it alone, however, and needed co-operation from like-minded leftists like Horgan and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. They both failed her, Horgan spectacularly so. By doing all he could to obstruct the Trans Mountain pipeline, he significantly impeded efforts to revive Alberta’s economy and win public support for other emissions-reduction programs. That in turn fed the discontent that resulted in Kenney’s defeat of Notley and support for his pledge to play just as nasty as B.C. has been doing.

So now Horgan finds himself demanding the courts find a way to rescue him. His position could stand as a study in paradox. A province that enjoys its self-image as a bastion of green awareness — it has even positioned the Green party as a prop to support Horgan’s NDP — has discovered that a reduced supply of the oil and gas it so dislikes can have the effect of pushing up prices. In parts of the province a litre has recently gone for $1.70, which can mean an expensive fill up even for moderately efficient vehicles.

B.C. has had a carbon tax for more than a decade, and the core argument for a carbon tax is that higher prices help reduce consumption. That being the case, Vancouverites should be celebrating in the streets at the run-up in prices, as it would seem certain to get people out of their cars for all but the most essential travel. No more cruising around the mountains to enjoy the scenery, no more quick trips to the ski slopes, no more topping up the boat for a jaunt around the islands. Who needs that stuff when the environment is at risk?

Unfortunately, Horgan appears to lack the courage of his convictions, and now wants the taps opened wide, and kept that way. In its court filing, B.C. says obtaining fuel is a complex business, and that complexity precludes it from quickly finding another source. These are the same people, mind, who have insisted for years that oil is a dirty commodity that is wholly unnecessary, given the ready availability of alternatives in the wind and the sun.

Crude needs to be refined before it becomes gasoline, and Horgan is also now championing an increase in refining capacity, even though refineries are noted emitters of the climate-changing gases on which the NDP and its fellow “progressives” have mounted a decades-long moral crusade. Horgan wants Ottawa to ensure more refined product comes B.C.’s way, and thinks Alberta might be just the place for an increase in capacity. He’s also not entirely opposed — not at the moment, anyway — to a $22-billion proposal to build a refinery in B.C. that has been gathering dust while politicians turned up their noses at anything so contrary to their preferred posturing. “I look forward to (entrepreneur David Black) entering the regulatory process to see if he has the wherewithal, in terms of capital, in terms of expertise, to pull that off,” Horgan commented recently.

Almost as amusing as watching Horgan pretzelize himself as he struggles to make past positions marry with current contortions is the speed with which allied camps have sought other explanations for the situation, and fanciful remedies.

The CBC quotes Marc Lee, a senior economist with the left-wing Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, as promoting a maximum price on gasoline, which of course directly contradicts the point of carbon taxes, and encourages consumption rather than discouraging it. He sees that old villain, price gouging, as the real culprit, and advocates the old solution: tell them to stop!

“There’s a lot of money leaving Vancouver and going to Alberta. I think it’s time for governments to step in and regulate this market,” Lee said.

But of course. Regulate prices. Just look at how successful regulated gas prices have been in places like Venezuela, where you could fill your car for about 38 cents a litre last year. Or Nigeria, where even today you can get a litre for about 52 cents. Now, those are places that understand the marketplace, and the fight against emissions.

You don’t really have to make fun of governments like Horgan’s and their bad ideas. Eventually they do it themselves.
 
Hoid
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

[SIZE=2]

How rich is it that the province of British Columbia, which has done so much to prevent Alberta from shipping more oil

How rich is it that Alberta ships 300K bbls a day through BC and are threatening BC in order to ship more?
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

How rich is it that Alberta ships 300K bbls a day through BC and are threatening BC in order to ship more?

They thought that you guys would be too stoned to notice.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#23
Oilfields are economy of the past, expanding them would be like building a Blockbuster video, says lawyer

Alberta Premier Jason Kenney's fixation on oil fields is a misplaced focus on the economy of yesterday, an environmental lawyer says.
"The idea of building this [Trans Mountain pipeline] expansion, which essentially locks in production and expansion of the oil sands for the next several decades, is the exact wrong direction we need to go," Eugene Kung, lawyer with West Coast Environmental Law, told Anna Maria Tremonti on The Current .
"It'd be like building a Blockbuster Video franchise in 2012."
He argued that Alberta should instead invest its attention and efforts toward renewable energy and transitioning oil sands workers to new work.
In a campaign promise, Kenney assured Albertans he would "turn off the taps" — block oil and gas exports — to the West Coast in order to push B.C. away from blocking pipeline expansion projects. Kenney was sworn in Tuesday, but the taps remain "on."
"We will obviously keep our electoral commitment to proclaim Bill 12, just stay tuned," Kenney told reporters following the ceremony. "We simply want to demonstrate that our government is serious about defending the vital economic interests of Alberta."


More: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/...wyer-1.5118731
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

How rich is it that Alberta ships 300K bbls a day through BC and are threatening BC in order to ship more?

Yes, in a pipeline built in the 50's with 1950's capacity in mind. The world has changed a lot in the last six decades. That pipeline is filled to capacity and more capacity is needed 'cuz no more can be shipped in it than already is in there. It's not enough anymore and hasn't been for a long long time. AB isn't threatening BC, but is threatening BC back over inter provincial transportation which is a Federal Jurisdiction....& yes, two wrongs don't make a right...& Justin could have made the whole situation a mute point years ago but with his divisive politics to make the West fight among themselves (again, I'm sure it was Butt's idea because it worked and is still working) and He's hamstrung SK & AB to no real benefit to BC.

A real threat would be for AB to Throtle down the flow of oil out of Northern BC enroute to Edmonton's refineries over enviromental concerns, but it hasn't done that because that would just be a real Dick move...and nonsensical like BC Throtling down SK & AB's ability to reach the closest coastline following an existing pipeline route that's been in place for six decades.

How rich it is that the Federal Gov't (=the current Liberal Party) has imposed legislation to limit the size of oil tankers to take Canadian Oil from BC & AB & BC from WESTERN Canada to markets overseas on the WEST coast, but doesn't have the same rules for Foreign Oil from overseas to reach EASTERN Refineries to supply EASTERN Canada, or for EASTERN Refineries to ship out refined petrolium products. Doesn't this make you wonder about the real motivation 'cuz if it was truly the environment it would be enforced on all coastlines and not just part of the WEST coast.

Yes, six FN Bands are against the Trans Mountain Pipeline (& they aren't along its route) and over a hundred FN Bands are for it (but...shhhhhh!!) including all those along its route, but you didn't mention these other 100+ FN Bands for some reason earlier in this thread. Anyway, carry on please. We're making a good tag team to get the truth across about what's really happening politically. You set up the T-Ball Stand & I'll swing the Bat.
 
Hoid
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Yes, in a pipeline built in the 50's with 1950's capacity in mind. The world has changed a lot in the last six decades. That pipeline is filled to capacity and more capacity is needed 'cuz no more can be shipped in it than already is in there. It's not enough anymore and hasn't been for a long long time. AB isn't threatening BC, but is threatening BC back over inter provincial transportation which is a Federal Jurisdiction....& yes, two wrongs don't make a right...& Justin could have made the whole situation a mute point years ago but with his divisive politics to make the West fight among themselves (again, I'm sure it was Butt's idea because it worked and is still working) and He's hamstrung SK & AB to no real benefit to BC.

A real threat would be for AB to Throtle down the flow of oil out of Northern BC enroute to Edmonton's refineries over enviromental concerns, but it hasn't done that because that would just be a real Dick move...and nonsensical like BC Throtling down SK & AB's ability to reach the closest coastline following an existing pipeline route that's been in place for six decades.

How rich it is that the Federal Gov't (=the current Liberal Party) has imposed legislation to limit the size of oil tankers to take Canadian Oil from BC & AB & BC from WESTERN Canada to markets overseas on the WEST coast, but doesn't have the same rules for Foreign Oil from overseas to reach EASTERN Refineries to supply EASTERN Canada, or for EASTERN Refineries to ship out refined petrolium products. Doesn't this make you wonder about the real motivation 'cuz if it was truly the environment it would be enforced on all coastlines and not just part of the WEST coast.

Yes, six FN Bands are against the Trans Mountain Pipeline (& they aren't along its route) and over a hundred FN Bands are for it (but...shhhhhh!!) including all those along its route, but you didn't mention these other 100+ FN Bands for some reason earlier in this thread. Anyway, carry on please. We're making a good tag team to get the truth across about what's really happening politically. You set up the T-Ball Stand & I'll swing the Bat.

what an incredible bunch of bullshit.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

what an incredible bunch of bullshit.

Maybe you could take the time to refute this b.s. , where is it wrong , please explain ?
 
Hoid
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Maybe you could take the time to refute this b.s. , where is it wrong , please explain ?

There is so much billshit there where would anyone start?

only 6 First Nations oppose the pipeline expansion.

Even a total idiot like you must understand hat is a complete fabrication.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

There is so much billshit there where would anyone start?

only 6 First Nations oppose the pipeline expansion.

Even a total idiot like you must understand hat is a complete fabrication.

OK, at least six FN Bands oppose the pipeline (are any of them along its route?) and well over a hundred are for it. Please feel free to refute the rest of the post to qualify the comment that there is so much bullshit there. Why are these at least six FN Bands (not along the pipeline route) opposing the twinning of the Trans Mountain Pipeline when over a hundred others are for it? Is it a 'Stuarts of the Earth' thing or something else?
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
+2
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

There is so much billshit there where would anyone start?
only 6 First Nations oppose the pipeline expansion.
Even a total idiot like you must understand hat is a complete fabrication.

Nothing that plain bags full of large denomination, un-marked bills won't fix.
 
Mowich
Conservative
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post

B.C like the rest of us is getting exactly what it deserves. By electing Green Luddites and NDP fools and vandals, they have no reason to complain.

In basic terms Horgan might be considered a near-traitor to the Province.

In basic terms he sold out to the weaverite greenies in order to form the government and thereby betrayed his own values which in the past supported the twinning as he saw the financial benefits of doing so.

Those of us who support twinning and did not vote for either of the pathetic parties currently doing their best to bring our province to ruination have every right to complain - loudly and clearly.