Understanding Sunnism and Shi'ism


MHz
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by ZulFiqar786 View Post

Not at all. But I am a Muslim student of knowledge. If any question related to the topic of this thread or Islam in general I will entertain them provided done so in a respectful way to sincerely learn and not to bash or with malicious intent. Otherwise will simply ignore such messages and carry on with my discourse.

If the countries of the Mid-east were divided into sects as also being political borders what would the map look like??
 
ZulFiqar786
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

If the countries of the Mid-east were divided into sects as also being political borders what would the map look like??



 
Murphy
#33
It's a shame, that. Muslims fighting other Muslims because one group does not conform to the other's belief set. Islam is truly muddled. It is time for a reset. It's time for Muslims to cast off their old ways and reject the hate that surrounds them. It is time to look for a better way.

There are over 500 million Buddhists (and the number is growing). Buddhism is not a religion. It is a philosophy. Buddhists live by five precepts. No one should,

harm living things
take what is not theirs to take
engage in sexual misconduct
lie or gossip
injest intoxicating substances

These five precepts ensure that all people can live together in peace and harmony.

Muslims have chosen to follow the Satanic teachings which include killing, destruction of property, lying (taqiyya). Many, despite being told not to drink, consume alcohol. Their souls are unclean and they are destined to go straight to hell.

You can see from your map the divisiveness of Islam. So sad that people are bred, only to kill others.
 
EagleSmack
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post


You can see from your map the divisiveness of Islam. So sad that people are bred, only to kill others.

With a WHOLE bunch of Shia right in the middle.
 
Twin_Moose
#35
Why is it that Mohammad that spoke to Allah and was able to write the Quran was not able to speak to Allah about who through time should be the leaders of Islam? Wouldn't he be able through consultation with Allah be able to foresee the turmoil that was to happen after his death?
 
Murphy
#36
Well, Mo didn't actually write the book. The stories were written by others. Some, hundreds of years after Mo kicked the camel.

Your question has merit. For religions who worship one or more gods, these god(s), or the entities they appoint (like, say, Jesus or Mo), should be around to keep things on the straight and level. But as you have pointed out, they don't. For some reason, these gods don't seem to mind murder, rape, destruction and unrest. This is one of the arguments learned individuals and institutions have put forward that supports their claim that there cannot be any gods.

Those who are members of an organized religion will respond with what they believe are logical and infallible answers. My personal favourite is, "He is all knowing and all powerful. We may not understand, but He does." Another is, "He will reveal all in time." Mystic!

Okay, but in the meantime, things are getting badly out of hand down here.

For Christians and Jews, a loving god wouldn't want that pain, suffering and confusion. He would want to put things right. Like a father would, when dealing with rambunctious children. And Muslims? Well, the Quran is all about whether you're on their side or not. They kill the ones who do not stand with them. God told them to do that.

So far, all I've seen is a vengeful, but loving god, who tells some of His creations to kill unbelievers, while others are told to turn the other cheek. God must be an extraterrestrial with a wild sense of humour!
Last edited by Murphy; Sep 20th, 2017 at 05:27 PM..
 
EagleSmack
#37
These truck drivers in Iraq were asked questions about Sunnism ...




They did not get the answers correct...


 
Durry
#38
They just look for a reason to kill, but hey, cheer up,,, it's Muslim killing Muslims,,, how can that be bad eh!!
 
ZulFiqar786
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Why is it that Mohammad that spoke to Allah and was able to write the Quran was not able to speak to Allah about who through time should be the leaders of Islam? Wouldn't he be able through consultation with Allah be able to foresee the turmoil that was to happen after his death?



Our Prophet did indeed accurately predict the trials and tribulations that would follow his death. For example, he told his disciple Uthman that God would clothe him in a garment which people would try to strip away from him, but that he should not allow them to do so and wear what God had given him. At the time Uthman didn’t understand the meaning of this prophecy. But when he became the third Caliph and then the rebel party of Muslims besieged him demanding he resign (an episode I mentioned) the words of this prophecy became clear to him that the garment God had clothed him with was the Caliphate and that he should follow the Prophet’s instructions and not take it off. For by resigning from the Caliphate a dangerous precedent would be set. Likewise the Prophet predicted that many of his disciples would be killed in the civil strife, naming them by name. However, because all of these events were destined to happen and part of God’s plan, therefore there was no way they could be averted, and the prophecies were such that they were not immediately discernable but became crystal clear after being fulfilled.
 
justlooking
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

So what is the principal difference between the Sunni and the Shi-ites (forgive the spelling)? I see some history here but still not an answer to that question.
.

Sunni want to kill Jews first and Christians second.

Shiitties want to kill Christians first and Jews second.


THAT is the difference.
 
Twin_Moose
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by ZulFiqar786 View Post



Our Prophet did indeed accurately predict the trials and tribulations that would follow his death. For example, he told his disciple Uthman that God would clothe him in a garment which people would try to strip away from him, but that he should not allow them to do so and wear what God had given him. At the time Uthman didn’t understand the meaning of this prophecy. But when he became the third Caliph and then the rebel party of Muslims besieged him demanding he resign (an episode I mentioned) the words of this prophecy became clear to him that the garment God had clothed him with was the Caliphate and that he should follow the Prophet’s instructions and not take it off. For by resigning from the Caliphate a dangerous precedent would be set. Likewise the Prophet predicted that many of his disciples would be killed in the civil strife, naming them by name. However, because all of these events were destined to happen and part of God’s plan, therefore there was no way they could be averted, and the prophecies were such that they were not immediately discernable but became crystal clear after being fulfilled.

If this was spelled out in the Quran, which was written by the Prophet, and it is followed by the letter of the law why was Uthman ever in danger?
 
ZulFiqar786
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

If this was spelled out in the Quran, which was written by the Prophet, and it is followed by the letter of the law why was Uthman ever in danger?

The Prophet didn’t write the Quran. He didn’t know how to read or write. That’s the miraculous proof that the Quran was divinely revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet (peace be upon them both).

As for these prophecies, they were not explicitly written in the Quran, but rather the Prophet was inspired with information and predictions about the future which he conveyed orally to his companions like Uthman. These oral traditions are what we call Hadith. Unlike the Quran, the Hadith were for the most part not mass transmitted and there wasn’t a single text, but rather the corpus of Hadith was collected through chains of transmission of narrators that are traced back to the Prophet through his companions.
 
MHz
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Durry View Post

They just look for a reason to kill, but hey, cheer up,,, it's Muslim killing Muslims,,, how can that be bad eh!!

At least you have the unchallenged title of the 'stupidest person alive and on the net'. When you have a war on your home turf you are defending your land from evil outsiders. Do you actually need the fuking names??

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Twin_Moose
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by ZulFiqar786 View Post

The Prophet didn’t write the Quran. He didn’t know how to read or write. That’s the miraculous proof that the Quran was divinely revealed by God through the Angel Gabriel to the Prophet (peace be upon them both).

As for these prophecies, they were not explicitly written in the Quran, but rather the Prophet was inspired with information and predictions about the future which he conveyed orally to his companions like Uthman. These oral traditions are what we call Hadith. Unlike the Quran, the Hadith were for the most part not mass transmitted and there wasn’t a single text, but rather the corpus of Hadith was collected through chains of transmission of narrators that are traced back to the Prophet through his companions.

That brings us back to if he can see the future why wasn't there laws set out to control the destiny of the Muslim people through succession of time? He should have been able with his foresight to name the future successors not?
 
ZulFiqar786
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

That brings us back to if he can see the future why wasn't there laws set out to control the destiny of the Muslim people through succession of time? He should have been able with his foresight to name the future successors not?

Our Prophet intentionally did not name a successor because there could actually be no successor to him in the religious sense of speaking on behalf of God. Islam is completed with the Prophet and with the revelation of the Quran. This is the concept known as “Finality of Prophethood”. If the Prophet designated a successor it would set a wrong precedent. After the death of the Prophet, the religious authority is invested in the Holy Qur’an our divinely revealed scripture, and in the Sunna or practice of the Prophet. These are the two ultimate sources of Islamic teachings for all time. Therefore the role of the Caliph as successor of the Prophet is purely administrative. It is not a divine position. The Prophet didn’t designate his successor because Islam encourages people to engage in consultation in matters that are not religious. Hence the Prophet’s companions consulted with each other among themselves and were guided by the Holy Spirit to gather around Abu Bakr as the Prophet’s successor. The history of chaos and bloodshed in the early Muslim community only began after the death of the second caliph Umar during the latter period of Uthman’s caliphate. This bloodshed and chaos was a result of the Muslim rulers not following the ideal example set forth by the Prophet’s immediate successors, known as the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. It is not due to any shortcoming on the Prophet’s part of not designating a successor. In fact, God Himself intended for these trials to afflict the Muslim community as a test of their patience and to see how faithful they remain to the principles and teachings of Islam. This is the Islamic philosophy of ‘fitna’ (trial or test) that God doesn’t want everything to be perfect and utopian all the time, but rather He makes trials and tribulations in order for people to rise to the occasion and put their faith into action.
 
Murphy
+1
#46
Simply put, the man they referred to as the prophet, was just a murderous pedophile who used violence and terror to control the people. He stole and destroyed things to enhance his own pockets and get whatever he wanted.

After 1500 years, nothing has changed. Their greed and violent ways will be their undoing. It is bad kharma which must be balanced.
 
Twin_Moose
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by ZulFiqar786 View Post

Our Prophet intentionally did not name a successor because there could actually be no successor to him in the religious sense of speaking on behalf of God. Islam is completed with the Prophet and with the revelation of the Quran. This is the concept known as “Finality of Prophethood”. If the Prophet designated a successor it would set a wrong precedent. After the death of the Prophet, the religious authority is invested in the Holy Qur’an our divinely revealed scripture, and in the Sunna or practice of the Prophet. These are the two ultimate sources of Islamic teachings for all time. Therefore the role of the Caliph as successor of the Prophet is purely administrative. It is not a divine position. The Prophet didn’t designate his successor because Islam encourages people to engage in consultation in matters that are not religious. Hence the Prophet’s companions consulted with each other among themselves and were guided by the Holy Spirit to gather around Abu Bakr as the Prophet’s successor. The history of chaos and bloodshed in the early Muslim community only began after the death of the second caliph Umar during the latter period of Uthman’s caliphate. This bloodshed and chaos was a result of the Muslim rulers not following the ideal example set forth by the Prophet’s immediate successors, known as the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. It is not due to any shortcoming on the Prophet’s part of not designating a successor. In fact, God Himself intended for these trials to afflict the Muslim community as a test of their patience and to see how faithful they remain to the principles and teachings of Islam. This is the Islamic philosophy of ‘fitna’ (trial or test) that God doesn’t want everything to be perfect and utopian all the time, but rather He makes trials and tribulations in order for people to rise to the occasion and put their faith into action.

So within a couple years of his death everything went to hell? Even Ghengis Khan, and Attila the Hun had a succession plan, not much of a profit eh?
 
MHz
+1
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

Simply put, the man they referred to as the prophet, was just a murderous pedophile who used violence and terror to control the people. He stole and destroyed things to enhance his own pockets and get whatever he wanted.

After 1500 years, nothing has changed. Their greed and violent ways will be their undoing. It is bad kharma which was be balanced.

The RCC taught them those skills or do they just pop up randomly in religious groups. The Jewish money-changers are the ones who corrupted the RCC in the first place but you would get your pee-pee slapped hard if you attacked them with the same vigor, right?? The Jews even had God boot them off the promised land because they couldn't follow some instructions. Muslims are Gentiles, no Gentile religion is going to get things right or the world would not need God to set things right.

You hatred is blind and driven by a directive that only focuses on one group, one that is heavily persecuted by Christians and Jews, each of whom is a vile as an organization can get when it comes to the welfare of others not connected with those two mentioned groups.

You can't even show that the weekend Jesus spend at the village the woman at the well came from wasn't the Quran as it was written for OR Gentiles who are part of the 'other sheep that are not of the (Jewish) flock.

Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

So within a couple years of his death everything went to hell? Even Ghengis Khan, and Attila the Hun had a succession plan, not much of a profit eh?

Probably not from the inside. The RCC couldn't have an alternative to their corrupted religion that was off the rails by about 400AD. The hatred runs high in this place, a good sign that the people are controlled rather than they are independent thinkers. Not hard to see who is controlling them and if they were so upright they wouldn't have to operate from the shadows.
 
ZulFiqar786
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

So within a couple years of his death everything went to hell? Even Ghengis Khan, and Attila the Hun had a succession plan, not much of a profit eh?

Genghis Khan’s descendants who invaded the Muslim world themselves ended up converting to Islam. There is no more Mongol empire. There are no more Huns. This proves that Genghis Khan and Atilla the Hun were failures, while our Prophet Muhammad was successful because his followers are still here and growing after 15 centuries. So in the end our Prophet was much greater than these warlords who didn’t affect the course of history and leave a lasting legacy as our Prophet did. Furthermore, it doesn’t make any sense to compare a Prophet to people like Genghis Khan. Its not the function of a Prophet to create an empire, but only to tell his people what God is saying. A Prophet acts as a medium between God and the people. Let out of the thousands of Prophets that came, including the ancient Israelite prophets, the most successful of them all was our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family).
 
Twin_Moose
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by ZulFiqar786 View Post

Genghis Khan’s descendants who invaded the Muslim world themselves ended up converting to Islam. There is no more Mongol empire. There are no more Huns. This proves that Genghis Khan and Atilla the Hun were failures, while our Prophet Muhammad was successful because his followers are still here and growing after 15 centuries. So in the end our Prophet was much greater than these warlords who didn’t affect the course of history and leave a lasting legacy as our Prophet did. Furthermore, it doesn’t make any sense to compare a Prophet to people like Genghis Khan. Its not the function of a Prophet to create an empire, but only to tell his people what God is saying. A Prophet acts as a medium between God and the people. Let out of the thousands of Prophets that came, including the ancient Israelite prophets, the most successful of them all was our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his family).

Kinda BS there isn't it didn't Mohammed bring his people together through force, as for Genghis his legacy survived through to the Ottoman empire and still alive and well in Turkey and they were of the Sunni faith so you should be proud not?

edit: Furthermore wasn't it Genghis that brought Islam to your homeland?
Last edited by Twin_Moose; Sep 21st, 2017 at 02:33 PM..Reason: to add
 
Murphy
#51
It is sad that you are speaking this way about a man of which you know so little, veshy. You must learn about Islam, the religion you profess to love.

Time and time again scholars have proven that Mo was nothing more than a user and abuser of the people of the day. Put into modern terms, a vicious gang leader who got what he wanted by fear and repression.

When we examine the 5 Precepts, we understand why Islam has not advanced beyond a small area of the ME - with the exception of Muslims in the far east.

Indonesians have realized why your religion has stagnated. Modernizing the principles with a fresh infusion of Buddist and Hindu teachings.

As the world's scholars have shown over and over, when you accept that Islam must evolve with the times, your hateful and blinkered views of the world will change.

The yang must balance the yin. Muslims must evolve or perish.
 
MHz
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

It is sad that you are speaking this way about a man of which you know so little, veshy. You must learn about Islam, the religion you profess to love.

Time and time again scholars have proven that Mo was nothing more than a user and abuser of the people of the day. Put into modern terms, a vicious gang leader who got what he wanted by fear and repression.

Who drives your world, a gay RCC Priest or a gay Rabbi?? You only see one Muslim as corrupt but you ignore the 1,000's of active child rapers in the Christian Religion as well as the Jewish religion that can't even explain their own holy books after having them for about 3500 years. I don't see any breakthrough until God allows it. You know the same God they no longer believe in, that's about as fuked as a religion can get and still be called a religion.
 
Murphy
#53
The discussion is not about Christians, or who drives my world. My world is ordered and placid. Yours is in turmoil, yet you feel others must share in your confusion.



Being untrue to yourself.

In the Muslim world, the less fortunate and uneducated are horribly influenced by others who crave power and have violent natures. Violence, lies and sycophancy are the unfortunate consequence of living in a poor country, surrounded by hate and violence. This is as true today as it was 1500 years ago.

To break out of this malaise, the people must take control of their lives. Caliphs, imams and government officials are powerless when the people reject their hatefulness and lies.

Muslims must learn to do this.
 
MHz
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

The discussion is not about Christians, or who drives my world. My world is ordered and placid. Yours is in turmoil, yet you feel others must share in your confusion.

Want to bet, clearly you have an agenda that is to slam Muslims at every chance. Pretty easy to see that it is Jewish related as that is the only group you consistently don't mention when there are numerous articles that show they are a lot more corrupt than Muslims. Perhaps finding out why you have such blind support would uncover you addiction to visiting any thread to do with Muslims in your typical full troll mode. The collective won't call you out on that but I sure the fuk will and you will hide rather than openly talk about who controls your every post.
 
Murphy
#55
Your anger exposes your soul. Calm.
 

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