What's up with Immigration in the US?


Kreskin
#1
There's more talk of it now than terrorism (maybe it's a good thing). Is it more of a problem now than it was 10 years ago? What sides of the issue are Reps and Dems on (what are their positions and why)?

Why don't they move all the jobs back to the US if the Mexicans don't want to live in their own country?
 
JonB2004
#2
Yeah, no kidding.
 
Semperfi_dani
#3
I think when Ronald Reagan said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" in Germany, it was because he wanted to borrow the bricks to build the walls in the USA. I saw this weekend that they are building a wall on the border between USA and Mexico...than they want to build one on the 49th... Sigh.
 
zoofer
#4
Over a million Mexicans a year sneak into the USA. The government has neither the means or the will to crackdown on them. The number of illegals is thought to be around 10 million but probably closer to 20 or 30 million.
The Dems favour a form of amnesty and the Republicans enforcing the laws on the books. Dems look for voters primarily, demographics secondary.
English is NOT the official language of the USA. Spanish is making inroads. America cannot control their Southern border and they are buggered if the do and buggered if the do not.
 
jimmoyer
#5
You know it's quite accurate how the rest of the
world is aware how little America knows about the
world.

The irony is how little the world knows about America.

Funny.

But instead of elucidating that point, I will go on to
explaining the issue of immigration in America for those
of the outside looking in.

Here's a very American view of it, full of nuance and
seeming conflict, and complexity.

This is very subtle, but I highly doubt the world noticed
a tiny matter in this immigration issue in America.

It happened so rapidly.

Only last week multitude of Latinos demonstrated in
several American cities displaying Mexican flags.

Only just JUST this week the same multitudes got
got honorably smarter. They demonstrated with
American flags.

Only because of the rapidity of several latino leaders.

Who are very Americanized.

And who also happen to be Congressman.


They noticed something about the LAST WEEK demonstrations with Mexican Flags.

They then spread the word.

Word.

Got it ?

It is to the testament of the wisdom of the latinos
that they quickly responded to those Congressman.

So quickly, that you would have to surmise that they
too understood and more importantly agreed.

They, the latinos took up the American flag willingly.


This is too subtle for the intellectual western world
to have noticed.

Insider point of view.

Word.

Shalome.
 
Semperfi_dani
#6
Ok..still don't see the point of the wall. Seems to me that if the Bush admin was serious, they would crack down on employers that hire the illegals.
 
Kreskin
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

You know it's quite accurate how the rest of the
world is aware how little America knows about the
world.

The irony is how little the world knows about America.

Funny.

But instead of elucidating that point, I will go on to
explaining the issue of immigration in America for those
of the outside looking in.

Here's a very American view of it, full of nuance and
seeming conflict, and complexity.

This is very subtle, but I highly doubt the world noticed
a tiny matter in this immigration issue in America.

It happened so rapidly.

Only last week multitude of Latinos demonstrated in
several American cities displaying Mexican flags.

Only just JUST this week the same multitudes got
got honorably smarter. They demonstrated with
American flags.

Only because of the rapidity of several latino leaders.

Who are very Americanized.

And who also happen to be Congressman.


They noticed something about the LAST WEEK demonstrations with Mexican Flags.

They then spread the word.

Word.

Got it ?

It is to the testament of the wisdom of the latinos
that they quickly responded to those Congressman.

So quickly, that you would have to surmise that they
too understood and more importantly agreed.

They, the latinos took up the American flag willingly.


This is too subtle for the intellectual western world
to have noticed.

Insider point of view.

Word.

Shalome.

I missed the explanation part.
 
jimmoyer
#8
Well semper fi, you probably don't appreciate the
subtle rapidity of the flag issue, but I will talk to you
about the Wall.

The subtlety here for those who support the Wall
are also quixotically for outsiders, very supportive
of Mexican immigration.


But America has always been subject to intellectual'
snobbery by the outsiders observing.
 
Kreskin
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Semperfi_dani

Ok..still don't see the point of the wall. Seems to me that if the Bush admin was serious, they would crack down on employers that hire the illegals.

Everyone turns a blind eye to it without repurcussion. No wonder illegals are pouring in.
 
zoofer
#10
Bad optics waving Mexican flags in LA. Got most American's backs up. Once they have amnesty most will resort to waving Mexican flags again.
They don't shed their nationality over night. If it is politically opportune they will for awhile.
 
jimmoyer
#11
Nah, Kreskin, this defies all ideas on it.

Illegals won't pour in because a Wall was built.
Illegals won't pour in just to prove Americans are assholes.

Illegals won't do it for any liberal zeitgeist reason.

Illegals will pour in to America as long as the income
opportunity is so freaking lopsided that they can still
earn more in America than the dirt they earn in Mexico.

Any other reason is self serving to one's own partisan
beliefs.

Get it ?
 
Kreskin
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Nah, Kreskin, this defies all ideas on it.

Illegals won't pour in because a Wall was built.
Illegals won't pour in just to prove Americans are assholes.

Illegals won't do it for any liberal zeitgeist reason.

Illegals will pour in to America as long as the income
opportunity is so freaking lopsided that they can still
earn more in America than the dirt they earn in Mexico.

Any other reason is self serving to one's own partisan
beliefs.

Get it ?

Jim, the money wouldn't be so good if they weren't allowed to work - which was part of our point. They get hired and everyone turns a blind eye to the hiring practice.
 
jimmoyer
#13
Still, Kreskin, you're a moving target.

Earlier you wondered that the Wall might encourage
more Illegals.

Now you move away from that point and moralize
about what the illegals get paid.

Think about it.

The illegals are earning more than the dirt they
earn in Mexico or elsewhere.

Really, man.

Or is that too fantastic for you to believe ?

Here's another fantastic point.

Not one American white boy is known to have sent
money home to his parents. I doubt not one Canadian
white boy has ever done so either. But Mexicans do.
Even with the dirt they get paid in America.

In fact money sent home from Mexicans in America
comprises a one third of the Mexican GNP.

Google madly.

Google frantically.
 
Kreskin
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Still, Kreskin, you're a moving target.

Earlier you wondered that the Wall might encourage
more Illegals.

Now you move away from that point and moralize
about what the illegals get paid.

Think about it.

The illegals are earning more than the dirt they
earn in Mexico or elsewhere.

Really, man.

Or is that too fantastic for you to believe ?

Here's another fantastic point.

Not one American white boy is known to have sent
money home to his parents. I doubt not one Canadian
white boy has ever done so either. But Mexicans do.
Even with the dirt they get paid in America.

In fact money sent home from Mexicans in America
comprises a one third of the Mexican GNP.

Google madly.

Google frantically.

I said nothing about a wall. I asked for people like you to inform on the issue. Please inform rather than speak in cryptic melodramatic code.

One need not be a brain surgeon to understand they make more in the US than Mexico. My question is why are they allowed to? Do you support no consquences for hiring illegal workers for peanuts?

Why does Bush seem tough on one hand yet have a "guest worker" platform at the same time. The politics of this issue rarely makes sense. Enlighten us please.
 
jimmoyer
#15
Well hey Kreskin, good points, and good questions you
have.

Here we go.

Here's the explanation.


Build the wall first. Start the job of defending
the border.

Do that first.

Then welcome them.

Instead of going on and on and on, I will stop
and wonder if you appreciate that explanation.
 
Hank C
#16
all i can say is that granting illegals amnesty is not the answer....it was tried years back, and the situation has by all measure gotten worse.
 
Hank C
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by zoofer

The Dems favour a form of amnesty and the Republicans enforcing the laws on the books. Dems look for voters primarily, demographics secondary.

its not as simple....social conservatives want to see the law enforced, while economic conservatives view illegal immigration in a different light.

What I can't stand is how people who are against this invasion are being labelled racist. Actually I have no problem with the guest worker.......jsut as long as we build the wall soon enough.
 
jimmoyer
#18
Hank C, you too, let me try this on you.

Build the Wall.

Then welcome Them.

Quixotic ?

I don't think so.

Makes perfect sense.

Both approaches are needed.

And there's a third approach.

America joins with Mexico to challenge Chinese
hegemony on manufacture.

Make Mexico the Manufacturer equal to China.

That's the triad, perfect hat trick.


1. The Wall.
2. Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico battle China for Manufacturer of the world.
 
Kreskin
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Well hey Kreskin, good points, and good questions you
have.

Here we go.

Here's the explanation.


Build the wall first. Start the job of defending
the border.

Do that first.

Then welcome them.

Instead of going on and on and on, I will stop
and wonder if you appreciate that explanation.

Building a wall would an action plan, Do you think it would work? The old saying, show me a 10 foot wall and I'll show you a 12 foot ladder.
 
Hank C
#20
Quote:

America joins with Mexico to challenge Chinese
hegemony on manufacture.

Make Mexico the Manufacturer equal to China.

couldent agree more......
 
jimmoyer
#21
Well of course THE WALL can be defeated and overcome.

Of course.

It's a process of counter measures.

I say build the Wall anyway.

It's not about ALL OR NOTHING.

It's about doing something.

I find value in the Wall by making it simply inconvenient
for illegal entry. Of course it won't stop half a million.

But just because it won't be perfect you don't do anything at all ??

Give me a break.

Give me a Wall.

Let's start.

Once we start getting control of the border, we can
then honor and love those who come to our country
and allow them to live openly and not in the shadow
of fear.

By the way, this is quite a complicated issue, and
I certainly do honor how Congress reflects the natural
complicated issue of this.

1, The Wall.
2. Then Welcome Them.
3. Then make Mexico the World King of Manufacture.
 
Kreskin
#22
I was listening to talk radio the other day. The guest was a writer and historian. He said the sign of empire decline is the building of walls. He went into more detail and examples than my lunch-hour brain could handle but the correlation between wall building and decline of great empires was kind of eerie.
 
Kreskin
#23
How do you make Mexico the manufacturing capital of the world?
 
jimmoyer
#24
That, Kreskin, is an old paradigm.

In fact if that's your conclusion about Walls and how
it correlates to an old paradigm in history, then you
are foreordained to be stuck in history and never
consider the paradox of the future.

Shaking your tree for a moment, man.
 
Kreskin
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

That, Kreskin, is an old paradigm.

In fact if that's your conclusion about Walls and how
it correlates to an old paradigm in history, then you
are foreordained to be stuck in history and never
consider the paradox of the future.

Shaking your tree for a moment, man.

And what have thee for fruit to twine thy juxtapose?
 
jimmoyer
#26
LOL, my inquiring Kreskin.

We have learned countless numbers of times when
the people and the leaders could not predict
accurately the coming events, the coming trends.

We have learned that ironically, from history itself !!!

And so we will learn a new paradigm about WALLS.

The first clue was the Israeli wall.

Now, please bear with me and keep your thoughts
about the Isreali WALL good or bad for another thread.

Bear with me.

That's the first wall in history that STOPPED people
namely suicide bombers from coming IN.

The old paradigm in history was a WALL stopping people
from LEAVING.

The new PARADIGM is stopping people from COMING.

Let's do this:

1. Build the Wall.
2. Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico King of Manufacture.

Think about it instead of wanting some long winded
explanation which I can thoroughly provide, but I got
mercy and won't do it unless upon urgent and sincere
request.
 
Kreskin
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

LOL, my inquiring Kreskin.

We have learned countless numbers of times when
the people and the leaders could not predict
accurately the coming events, the coming trends.

We have learned that ironically, from history itself !!!

And so we will learn a new paradigm about WALLS.

The first clue was the Israeli wall.

Now, please bear with me and keep your thoughts
about the Isreali WALL good or bad for another thread.

Bear with me.

That's the first wall in history that STOPPED people
namely suicide bombers from coming IN.

The old paradigm in history was a WALL stopping people
from LEAVING.

The new PARADIGM is stopping people from COMING.

Let's do this:

1. Build the Wall.
2. Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico King of Manufacture.

Think about it instead of wanting some long winded
explanation which I can thoroughly provide, but I got
mercy and won't do it unless upon urgent and sincere
request.

I don't think Israel is on the list of great empires.
 
jimmoyer
#28
Get unstuck about great empires, Kreskin.

This is about something much less majestic.

This is about something simply practical.

Is a Wall practical ?

Hell no.

But no wall at all ?

Highly impractical.
'
So get on with this hat trick:

1. Build the wall.
2, Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico King of Manufacture.
 
Kreskin
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Get unstuck about great empires, Kreskin.

This is about something much less majestic.

This is about something simply practical.

Is a Wall practical ?

Hell no.

But no wall at all ?

Highly impractical.
'
So get on with this hat trick:

1. Build the wall.
2, Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico King of Manufacture.

Which political party is taking this up?
 
jimmoyer
#30
Unfortunately, Kreskin, that hat trick is eluding all
of the political parties in America.

Each wing of each party is taking up one of those points,
but never all 3 together.

However, you would be surprised how many of the
WALL supporters will gladly welcome Mexicans to live
in the open in America.

You would be surprised how much America wishes
to do this right.

By the way, I am infinitely amazed how the latinos
dropped the Mexican flag last week and embraced
so easily the American flag as it marched in the streets.

Word gets around fast.

And it's not all manipulative finesse.

Latinos believed it was wise on a deeper level.
 

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