If you can only pick one would it be religous rights or human rights and why?


Liberalman
Free Thinker
#1
If you can only pick one would it be religious rights or human rights and why?

As different culture join the melting pot of the cities and towns of this country can we really sustain religious freedom any more?

What do you think?
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
tay
#2
Take it to the philosophy tread.......




Philosophy Discussion Forum | Free Online Discussion Forums
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#3
Human rights religion should be required to obey the laws of a democratic state
 
Colpy
Conservative
+6
#4  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

If you can only pick one would it be religious rights or human rights and why?

As different culture join the melting pot of the cities and towns of this country can we really sustain religious freedom any more?

What do you think?

(sigh)

They are one and the same.

Freedom of religion is a human right, so you can not choose "human rights" and exclude religious rights.
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

Take it to the philosophy tread.......




Philosophy Discussion Forum | Free Online Discussion Forums

This is political

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

Human rights religion should be required to obey the laws of a democratic state

Human rights is equality for all and religious rights is discrimination and when states and provinces pass laws for religious freedoms then equality does not exist
 
gerryh
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

This is political



Human rights is equality for all and religious rights is discrimination and when states and provinces pass laws for religious freedoms then equality does not exist


How far are you willing to go with taking the rights away from those with certain religious convictions? Are you wanting to force the Catholic Church to preform SSM marriages? Force Christian educational institutes to teach and allow things that are against their faith?


These questions are to more than just Liberalman, they also apply to others such as grumpy.
 
Ludlow
No Party Affiliation
+1
#7
Neither. Change the word rights to privileges and I would choose both.
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
+2
#8
Human rights because it is more expansive and inclusive.
 
Dexter Sinister
No Party Affiliation
+5
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

What do you think?

I think you need to define the terms of your question. In general terms Colpy has it correctly, freedom of religion is a human right, enshrined in the statutes and customs of every civilized place, but for some reason I'm inclined to think that's not what you mean by religious rights. I suspect you mean things like being able to refuse service to people whose behaviour or beliefs you disapprove of on religious grounds, like a judge or marriage commissioner refusing to provide a marriage contract, or a restaurant denying service, to gay people, or people of a different faith, or no faith, or insisting that Intelligent Design be taught as a competing explanation with equal status to the Theory of Evolution in biology classes. Religious rights and freedom of religion are not the same thing, the latter is just one aspect of the former, so if you'd care to clarify what you're really asking, I may care to tell you what I think about it.
 
Sal
No Party Affiliation
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I think you need to define the terms of your question. In general terms Colpy has it correctly, freedom of religion is a human right, enshrined in the statutes and customs of every civilized place, but for some reason I'm inclined to think that's not what you mean by religious rights. I suspect you mean things like being able to refuse service to people whose behaviour or beliefs you disapprove of on religious grounds, like a judge or marriage commissioner refusing to provide a marriage contract, or a restaurant denying service, to gay people, or people of a different faith, or no faith, or insisting that Intelligent Design be taught as a competing explanation with equal status to the Theory of Evolution in biology classes. Religious rights and freedom of religion are not the same thing, the latter is just one aspect of the former, so if you'd care to clarify what you're really asking, I may care to tell you what I think about it.

agreed
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

How far are you willing to go with taking the rights away from those with certain religious convictions? Are you wanting to force the Catholic Church to preform SSM marriages? Force Christian educational institutes to teach and allow things that are against their faith?


These questions are to more than just Liberalman, they also apply to others such as grumpy.

Why limit the example of forcing the Church to perform same sex marriages... That knife cuts both ways; maybe force same sex couples to engage in hetro relationships/marriages.

... Obviously, the suggestion is just as absurd as the OP and the rights vs discrimination argument that is presented
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+3
#12
More important than freedom of religion is freedom from religion. No one should be able to force their religious views on anyone else.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
#13
Yes people should be free to practice their religion however they should not
be granted special exemptions from the laws of the land or be allowed to in
fact discriminate against others in a secular society
 
DaSleeper
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

More important than freedom of religion is freedom from religion. No one should be able to force their religious views on anyone else.

And what religion, may I ask, is doing that theses days.............?
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

And what religion, may I ask, is doing that theses days.............?

Islam is attempting to. Every now and then some whacked out evangelical, mostly in the states tries to slip in a law based on their beliefs.
 
DaSleeper
#16
Then you need a smaller brush......
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#17
Not really. I view all religions as the same. But as long as they don't bother me I don't much care what they do. Now if someone said I couldn't shop on sunday because it is their religious day I start getting cranky.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Not really. I view all religions as the same. But as long as they don't bother me I don't much care what they do. Now if someone said I couldn't shop on sunday because it is their religious day I start getting cranky.

One of the underlying issues regarding legislation and religion is that in many/most Western culture, the general laws are based on a Judeo Christian mechanism(s).

Directly or indirectly, select religious affiliations are ingrained into society already
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+1
#19
The best thing that can be said for religious holidays is that they create double time days. Like today. This is a $1000 day for us.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

One of the underlying issues regarding legislation and religion is that in many/most Western culture, the general laws are based on a Judeo Christian mechanism(s).

Directly or indirectly, select religious affiliations are ingrained into society already

Not quite true. Slavery, anti-homosexual laws, Lord's Day acts, prohibition, blasphemy laws, religious discrimination practices, and so on, have been eliminated by the secular not by religion in Western jurisdictions.

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

And what religion, may I ask, is doing that theses days.............?

None in Canada. Fundamentalist Christians in the US.
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

Not quite true. Slavery, anti-homosexual laws, Lord's Day acts, prohibition, blasphemy laws, religious discrimination practices, and so on, have been eliminated by the secular not by religion in Western jurisdictions.



None in Canada. Fundamentalist Christians in the US.

Don't forget redneck country the bible belt of Canada
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
-1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

Not quite true. Slavery, anti-homosexual laws, Lord's Day acts, prohibition, blasphemy laws, religious discrimination practices, and so on, have been eliminated by the secular not by religion in Western jurisdictions.

I believe that it is reasonable to assess these changes in the notion that the theological elements have grown and evolved with that of society
 
Spade
Free Thinker
+2
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I believe that it is reasonable to assess these changes in the notion that the theological elements have grown and evolved with that of society

Yep, theology has discarded many egregiously false doctrines thanks to the enlightened secularist. Several more to go.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#24
The enlightened secularist?

Sounds to me that this is justification of pushing a secularist agenda onto society whether it likes it or not.

So much for freedom of choice, eh?
 
Spade
Free Thinker
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

The enlightened secularist?

Sounds to me that this is justification of pushing a secularist agenda onto society whether it likes it or not.

So much for freedom of choice, eh?


More freedom, than freedom of choice. I can't choose to have indentured servants or slaves.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

More freedom, than freedom of choice.

Your individual opinion may not be that of other folks.

In the end, your rights end at the very point where mine begin

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

I can't choose to have indentured servants or slaves.

I can't choose to opt for a rite to sacrifice a virgin by virtue of cutting out her still-beating heart... What's your point?
 
petros
+1
#27
Pushy atheists are worse than dry drunks, ex smokers and JoHos all rolled into one.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Pushy atheists are worse than dry drunks, ex smokers and JoHos all rolled into one.

.. .Especially based on the demographics (Canada at least) where the overwhelming majority identify with some form of religion.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

.. .Especially based on the demographics (Canada at least) where the overwhelming majority identify with some form of religion.

Identification is one thing, belief is another, and church attendance (appox. 17%) a third.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Pushy atheists are worse than dry drunks, ex smokers and JoHos all rolled into one.

Don't forget vacuum salesmen.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

Identification is one thing, belief is another, and church attendance (appox. 17%) a third.

It's pretty closed minded to assume that someone's faith is based exclusively on attending Church.

Facts are facts in this case Spade.
 

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