"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta


pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#811
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

For the first time in my life, I am beginning to wonder if breaking off from Canada is not such a bad idea. These ridiculous protests by non-Aboriginals manipulating the public and other Aboriginals into thinking they are doing "what is best for Canada" has really left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

It's the media that feeds this sickness. 19 of 20 First Nations bands are in favor of the pipeline being built, as it would provide much needed revenue and career opportunities for their people, only to be usurped by a bunch of clowns claiming to be Indigenous, living in their middle class homes, where mommy and daddy pay all their bills. Just take a scope of the protests, especially at the BC legislature. 90% of the protesters are Caucasian, Asian, and other non-Aboriginal groups.

Even the UN was duped into thinking that this one renegade band was the voice of the silent majority, and issued a statement saying so much. It's not going to get any better, with Trudeau on the sidelines approving of this action, and refusing to call in the military to protect the rail lines and highways.

It's time to punt these Wexit clowns and Kenney away, and establish a legitimate Western Canadian separatist movement. Canadians will be singing a different tune when the oil and gas sector is destroyed, and most Major companies cancel projects, and relocate to Texas. Say goodbye to equalization payments, free healthcare, social services, good educations, etc.

When the propane runs out in Quebec the government will act .
 
Girth
+3
#812
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

When the propane runs out in Quebec the government will act .

Trudeau will cater to the Saudis to export more oil at taxpayer expense.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+4
#813
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

When the propane runs out in Quebec the government will act .


With any luck, Kenney and Moe will takes steps such that the money going to Ottawa runs out before the propane
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+3
#814
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

David Staples: Chaos has come to Canada — and it could quickly get much worse


If Prime Minister Justin Trudeau does not make the right moves in the next month, the chaos will become more intense and have a different flavour. It won’t only be wild-eyed activists blockading roads, railways and legislature buildings, it will be the people of Alberta rising up against Ottawa like never before.

The chaos has come crashing due to the construction of the Coastal GasLink LNG pipeline, which is supported by the Trudeau Liberals, the Horgan NDP and the leadership of the Wet’suwet’en people.

Illegal protests and blockades in support of a small faction of the Wet’suwet’en who oppose the project have sprung up across Canada.

It’s poetic justice this is happening on Horgan and Trudeau’s watch. Both their governments have done much to encourage the most aggressive of activists. For example, both governments have supported UNDRIP, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which rashly declares no major project must proceed without prior and informed consent of Indigenous groups. This notion runs counter to Canadian law, which makes it clear there is no veto for any First Nation on a major project which is in the overall public good.

Not surprisingly, protestors against the LNG pipeline have invoked the supposed veto under UNDRIP.

To get this project moving, it now looks like only mass arrests and charges will work. But will Trudeau support his own authorities in cracking down?

If he fails, expect to see more illegal, and increasingly confrontational, protests to stop the $12 billion-plus TMX pipeline.

In Alberta, in the most important political decision since the bungled, much-delayed and hugely expensive TMX fiasco, Trudeau must now make the right call on the Teck Frontier oilsands mine approval.

Teck Frontier is the biggest oilsands project ever proposed. The $20-billion proposal has unprecedented support from all Indigenous groups in the area.

Most crucially — and the importance of this is paramount — Teck Frontier was approved by an expert federal/provincial panel after a rigorous, open and transparent 10-year regulatory process.

Why is the federal government now waffling on affirming the regulator’s approval?

In a press conference on Tuesday, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney lashed out, saying if this were about a $20-billion investment into an airplane factory in Quebec or a car plant in Ontario, the government would not try to link airplane or car emissions to approval, but would instead be falling all over itself to offer subsidies.

Two years ago Ottawa exempted a Quebec cement plant from federal environmental review, Kenney said, even as that plant produces two megatons of CO2 emissions per year (about half of what Teck Frontier will produce).

“If their central issues was carbon (emissions), they would have stopped that cement factory,” Kenney said of the Trudeau cabinet. “They would not subsidize Bombardier and auto companies in Ontario. It’s not about emissions. It’s not about the environment. It appears to be about the West.”

Kenney said he’s tried repeatedly to address with Trudeau any outstanding issues around Alberta’s oilsands emissions but has heard nothing back. “We get zero response to that. Instead all we get are these passive aggressive messages constantly emanating from Ottawa, when all we ask that the rule of law be respected and that this country demonstrate that we are a safe place in which to invest, that we don’t follow banana republic-style rules where political preferences are substituted for regulatory decisions.”

Asked what his government’s reaction would be if Teck Frontier is rejected, Kenney said: “The reaction would be swift and serious. I hope it doesn’t come to that.”

A new and clever line of defence for Trudeau possibly rejecting Teck has come out, essentially that the decision is a lose-lose proposition, with cabinet either upsetting Alberta or accepting Teck and losing all credibility as a government committed to fighting climate change. Essentially, the notion is that Trudeau might as well upset Alberta rather than be called out as a fraud on such an important matter.

But, in fact, if Teck proceeds, the Alberta oilsands will still be below the 100-megaton emissions cap for the oilsands.

Yes, a few thousand of the most hardcore oilsands haters will be momentarily outraged. But the chaos exploding out of a rejection of Teck will be far more severe. Trudeau would empower already uncontrolled climate protestors, inject a kill shot of uncertainty into the Canadian economy for investors, and unleash a new level of political chaos in Western Canada.

His path should be clear, to stand up for peace, order and good government by approving Teck Frontier.

source: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...get-much-worse


In many regards, disapproval of the Teck mine will get this ball rolling ASAP
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+3
#815
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

In many regards, disapproval of the Teck mine will get this ball rolling ASAP

Trudeau wants to get into the history books as the first Prime Minister of a post national state and the last PM of Canada . I feel sorry for the Maritimes .
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+3
#816
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

Trudeau wants to get into the history books as the first Prime Minister of a post national state and the last PM of Canada . I feel sorry for the Maritimes .


No doubt.


When you look at the (age) population demographics in Canada; Que, Ont and the Maritimes all have aging populations to the extent that there may as many (if not more) retirees than actual workers.


This is places a giant stress on the provincial and national finances with respect to funding society in light that Kenney and Moe are threatening the provincial withdrawl from the Fed CPP program
 
Girth
+3
#817
4 Conservative MPs warn Alberta separatist movement could rise unless Ottawa fixes 'inequities'




1 of 4 names attached to 'Buffalo Declaration' released Thursday is Calgary MP Michelle Rempel
Joel Dryden
CBC News
Posted: Feb 20, 2020 7:05 PM MT

Four Conservative MPs from Alberta have released what they're calling the "Buffalo Declaration," a 13-page notice that calls for "immediate action" from the federal government or else residents of the province will seek separation from Canada.

"We are drawing clear line [sic] in the sand. In this declaration, we set before you the inequities our people face and concrete ideas to rectify them," the document stated. "Immediate action must be taken because we are hearing from many people in our province that they will be equal or they will seek independence."

The Buffalo Declaration name is a nod to a proposed name for Alberta and Saskatchewan while the provinces were still part of what was known as the North-West Territories, before the two joined Confederation in 1905.

The document, which was released Thursday, bears the names of Calgary MP Michelle Rempel, Banff-Airdrie MP Blake Richards, Medicine Hat-Cardston-Warner MP Glen Motz and Peace River-Westlock MP Arnold Viersen.

Among other demands, the document called for the federal government to acknowledge the "devastation of the National Energy Program" in the House of Commons and eliminate or phase out equalization in addition to retroactively lifting the cap on the fiscal stabilization fund.

Morneau 'open' to Alberta Premier Kenney's request for a boost to fiscal stabilization program
The demands are necessary, the document alleged, because Alberta is "physically and structurally isolated from economic and political power structures."


"Eastern Canada functionally treats Alberta as a colony, rather than an equal partner," the document said.


This new declaration is separate from the ongoing study being undertaken by the Alberta government, which concluded its tour across the province in late January.

That study, dubbed the Fair Deal panel, is similarly geared towards addressing the province's separatist sentiment. It is due to present its recommendations to government in a report before March 31.

Despite a shared frustration with Ottawa, the provincial panel is studying whether to withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, form a provincial police force and establish a formal provincial constitution, among other measures.

'It's about time Ottawa started working for Alberta,' Kenney says, touting a 5-point plan
Mount Royal University political scientist Duane Bratt said though the two initiatives weren't directly related, they shared similar DNA.

"It's a real hodgepodge of different ideas, and that's why I think you need to put both of those in tandem. One is coming out of the provincial government, the other is coming out of Alberta-based Conservative members," Bratt said. "So the Conservative Party — provincially, federally — they're all trying to come up with different ways of creating greater powers and autonomy for Alberta within Canada.

"But the consequence of that, if these were enacted, would be a country that nobody would recognize."

Though the declaration owes its name to a region that originally included Saskatchewan, the proposals contained within are wholly focused on Alberta, including a demand that the federal government recognize Alberta — "or Buffalo" — as a culturally distinct region within Confederation.

"They talk about repealing any law that Alberta doesn't like," Bratt said. "So it would be independence, in all but name."
 
petros
+5
#818
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

With any luck, Kenney and Moe will takes steps such that the money going to Ottawa runs out before the propane

Moe has more leverage than Kenney in battling Ottawa. Moe is dug in deep, Kenney is still flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks.
 
petros
+4
#819
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

Though the declaration owes its name to a region that originally included Saskatchewan, the proposals contained within are wholly focused on Alberta, including a demand that the federal government recognize Alberta — "or Buffalo" — as a culturally distinct region within Confederation.

Now there is a jaded piece of history. The Laurentian elite forced the creation of Alberta by chiseling it off SK.

Buffalo still exists. Its 1 square block in Regina with the Territorial Administration Building sitting on it. It's not part of Canada.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+5
#820
In this National Post article, this was added that clears up Sask's involvement in the project

Quote:

It also called upon leadership candidates for the Conservative party to address the issues it raises. In a statement, the current leader, Andrew Scheer, said his party had long advocated for democratic reform to “ensure Western Canadians have an equal voice in Canadian politics” while saying he would stay out of it, given the leadership contest.
“The frustration and anger in Western Canada is very real and shout not be ignored,” his statement said.
Erin O’Toole, who’s running for the leadership of the party, said in a statement that “the country is more divided than it has been in decades.”
“Now, Westerners are rightly demanding respect and fairness and, in their justifiable anger, some are raising the spectre of separation.”
Although similar in name to the Buffalo Project , another western group working on ideas to address alienation, the two are not connected said Brad Wall, the former Saskatchewan premier who has been involved with the pre-existing Buffalo Project. “However, having read the declaration and canvassed the history of Buffalo in speeches on many occasions over the last decade, I welcome this development and applaud these MPs for the effort to focus national attention on the abiding need for greater fairness for the west,” Wall told National Post on Thursday.

 
B00Mer
No Party Affiliation
+3
#821
 
taxme
+2
#822
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I never voted liberal in my life.
And BC doesn't want to separate.Why would we join Alberta and be bullied into take your phuking pipelines?

So, I guess that you enjoy living in a corrupt deep state country like Canada. We now have a scandalous, ethics violator and a bloody liar running this country once again now. BC would be far better off to join Alberta and get away from those eastern thieves in Ontario and especially Quebec.

Sadly, this may never happen because BC is fully loaded with lieberals, socialists environ"mental"ist whackos who have no clue as to what they are doing or talking about. The majority of them are clueless as to what they are demonstrating against. BC is one well of a phuc-ed up province thanks to the fools who keep voting for those misfits in Victoria who are allowed to keep running this province. With the socialists running BC and the french lieberals running Ottawa it is no wonder Canada has become the laughing stock of the world and is near bankrupt. But you could careless, right?
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#823
Quote: Originally Posted by taxme View Post

So, I guess that you enjoy living in a corrupt deep state country like Canada. We now have a scandalous, ethics violator and a bloody liar running this country once again now. BC would be far better off to join Alberta and get away from those eastern thieves in Ontario and especially Quebec.

Sadly, this may never happen because BC is fully loaded with lieberals, socialists environ"mental"ist whackos who have no clue as to what they are doing or talking about. The majority of them are clueless as to what they are demonstrating against. BC is one well of a phuc-ed up province thanks to the fools who keep voting for those misfits in Victoria who are allowed to keep running this province. With the socialists running BC and the french lieberals running Ottawa it is no wonder Canada has become the laughing stock of the world and is near bankrupt. But you could careless, right?

If Alberta and or Saskatchewan separate B.C. has no choice but to join or go it alone .
 
B00Mer
No Party Affiliation
#824
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

If Alberta and or Saskatchewan separate B.C. has no choice but to join or go it alone .

Cascadia - they might

https://medium.com/united-green-alli...e-b6934798405f
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2
#825
Alberta should leave Canada if 'absolute necessities' not met, Brian Jean says

Quote:

One of Alberta's most prominent conservative voices and a former leader of the province's opposition is calling on Ottawa to acquiesce to a series of demands — or risk separation.
Brian Jean was the former leader of the Wildrose Party before it merged with the Progressive Conservatives in 2017 to create the United Conservative Party, losing the leadership race to Jason Kenney.
Jean has stayed largely out of provincial politics since then, denying rumours in 2019 he might soon return.

But the former Fort McMurray-Conklin MLA, in a column posted by the Edmonton Journal Saturday, calls for four "absolute necessities" from Ottawa — and stresses if those demands aren't met by Canada, then Alberta should leave.
"I believe, right now, that most Albertans believe that Canada is broken," Jean said in an interview with CBC News. "There are some fundamental problems with our Confederation, with our country, and Albertans, for the most part, want to fix it."
Those necessities, as outlined by Jean, include some familiar echoes to measures currently being studied by Alberta's "fair deal" panel, which is due to present its recommendations in less than a month.
In all cases, Jean advocates for implementing constitution changes — four "fundamental things" that he feels most Canadians will agree with:
Changing Canada's constitution to "require that every province is being treated fairly and equally."
Requiring the House of Commons or the Senate to have true representation by population.
Establishing an amendment that would prohibit the federal government from passing a law that would impact one province without majority consensus of the MPs and senators of that province.
Require the constitution to state that no province can prevent any province "to have access to tidewater or trade with the rest of the world."
While Jean said he is "not a separatist," he said he believed Albertans have reached a breaking point.
"I think it's fair to say if you're in a marriage where one spouse is continually abusive to the other, that you should look for a better place to be if they're not going to listen to reason," Jean said. "No one should stay in an abusive relationship. Right now, the majority of Albertans believe it is somewhat of an abusive relationship.
"Certainly, a good portion of them believe it is unfixable."
Throwing support behind Kenney
The person best suited to bring these demands to Ottawa, Jean said, is Kenney — a notable suggestion considering the checkered history between the two men.
In February 2019, Jean demanded Kenney retract statements that claimed all campaigns operated voting stations, declaring that his team "never cheated."
Leaked internal UCP documents obtained by CBC News in March 2019 revealed that the leadership campaign of Jason Kenney collaborated with fellow candidate Jeff Callaway's campaign during the 2017 leadership race, targeting Jean's campaign.
"Premier Kenney, in my mind, is one of the staunchest Canadian federalists in the scene, and politically, is best positioned to represent us in constitutional discussions right now," Jean said.
Asked why now he is throwing his support behind Kenney, Jean said he couldn't think of anyone better positioned for the task.
"He's been a former federal cabinet minister for 10 years," he said. "He is very well positioned to know exactly any movement that could be taken by the federal government or other provinces, and I would believe he would be successful in arguing that position."
When asked whether he would run himself in a scenario where Alberta separated from Canada — or support Kenney or someone like Wexit Leader Peter Downing — Jean said "it's up to the people."
"Right now, I have a lot of family responsibilities. But I recognize, living in Fort McMurray and in spending time in other great cities in Alberta, that there are other people very serious about this movement, such as Mr. Downing and others," he said. "Sooner or later, if it's not solved … then someone will rise."
Column is 'grossly problematic,' professor says
Melanee Thomas, an associate political science professor at the University of Calgary, said though she recognizes some Albertans are frustrated, that is not the same thing as "federation being broken."
"I think that this column is grossly problematic … I've been candid on the public record that what I've been seeing since the middle of the federal election to now are certain political elites in Alberta working really hard to stoke a particular form of angry alienation," Thomas said. "I think it's irresponsible because it doesn't actually match a lot of things that we're seeing in terms of public opinion."
Thomas also took issue with Jean referring to Alberta as an "unappreciated colony" in his column.
"When we're talking about colonialism, we need to be very careful in Canada that we use the correct reference, and the reference in this case would be to Indigenous people," she said. "There is nothing in Alberta's experience with federation that merits the use of the term 'colony.'
"It's usage in this case is completely racially tone-deaf in terms of what actual colonialism looks like."
She added that entrenched constitutional law is extremely difficult to change, so Jean's confrontational approach is unlikely to pay dividends.
"If this is actually about amending the constitution, the audience needs to be other Canadians. I don't think that these kinds of approaches show Alberta in a productive light, where other Canadians can be confident that we're actually going to be sensible negotiation partners," Thomas said.
"I think it's a reasonable question for Albertans to ask, 'Why are these political elites working really hard to make us angry at the federal government?'"
Equalization issues
In his column, Jean cites the "more than $20 billion we contribute to equalization annually while [Canada] simultaneously [seeks] to prevent our future prosperity."
Calgary economist Trevor Tombe said that though Jean references equalization multiple times in his column, each time, "he does so in error."
"[He] repeats some broadly held but incorrect beliefs about how the program works and who funds it," Tombe said. "For example, the very opening line of the piece notes that Alberta contributes $20 billion into the equalization program, but that's simply not the case. The entire national program is only $20.6 billion this year."
Tombe said Alberta taxpayers pay more in federal revenue than is received in the form of federal spending in the province, but that is a consequence of high income levels that exist in Alberta.
"Alberta pays about 17 per cent of the federal budget in recent years, but its roughly 17 per cent of the Canadian economy for most federal revenue, because it is tied to income through income taxes or sales taxes," he said. "It naturally results in higher income individuals paying more, and Alberta is home to more higher income individuals than most other provinces."
It's undeniable that there is some real frustration in Alberta, Tombe said, but he's not sure Jean's column helps that case.
"There are some important policy issues around pipelines in particular, they have raised a lot of concern and is the subject of legitimate debate," Tombe said. "But if he's going to invoke misleading and outright false statements around how equalization works or how federal transfers work or who pays the federal budget in general, that's not helpful."

 
Tecumsehsbones
#826
But hark! a voice like thunder spake
The West awake, the West awake
Sing ah! hurrah! let Ottawa quake
We'll watch 'til death for oil's sake!

-- Thomas Osborne Davis (ironically the name of an Irish writer and leader and a Saskatchewan MP and Senator)
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#827
Yep discrimination against the West has been boiling for a long time
 
Tecumsehsbones
#828
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Yep discrimination against the West has been boiling for a long time

We can sell you a metric shitload of Traitor's Cross flags super-cheap!

Tariff-free under the new Trump Is God Trade Deal.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+1
#829
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

We can sell you a metric shitload of Traitor's Cross flags super-cheap!

Ah I see you are trying to step into Cryin Canadian's shoes, do they fit?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#830
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Ah I see you are trying to step into Cryin Canadian's shoes, do they fit?

Ah. Wit (such as it is). How very charming.
 
petros
+1
#831
Its questionable whether Haultain really signed off and the legality of appointments of Premiers in 1905 is in question.
Last edited by petros; 3 weeks ago at 10:40 AM..
 
Tecumsehsbones
#832
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Its questionable whether Haultain really signed off and the legality of appointments of Premiers in 1905.

Cue up "Theme from Exodus."
 
petros
+1
#833


She is getting her day in front of the Bench.
 
JamesBondo
+1
#834
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

We can sell you a metric shitload of Traitor's Cross flags super-cheap!
Tariff-free under the new Trump Is God Trade Deal.

How could you have that view on federal relations in Canada? Can’t you see what’s really going on? You’re throwing out broad trumpisms as facts. You clearly are blind, and can’t discuss this realistically.
 
petros
+1
#835
Buried in AB's history, is a special statue that allows ANY CONCERNED ALBERTAN who is concern about the Constitution/Confederation, shall be entitled to be heard in a Federal Court. It is called the "THE CONSTITUTION QUESTIONABLE DECLARATION ACT". This is why I am accepted!

This AB Statue goes back to 1935, and it speaks to divisional concerns between the Province & Dominion. My Fed Crt notice to Trudeau and every Attorney General across Canada is called, " NOTICE OF CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION". After all these years, this old statue was honoured
 
Tecumsehsbones
#836
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

How could you have that view on federal relations in Canada? Can’t you see what’s really going on? You’re throwing out broad trumpisms as facts. You clearly are blind, and can’t discuss this realistically.

Geography.
 
petros
+1
#837
Hi-dilly-ho neighbourino.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#838
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Hi-dilly-ho neighbourino.

Working on the spite fence as we speak.
 
petros
+1
#839
Be sure to order extra deet for the crew. Itll be nasty 6 weeks from now.
 
JamesBondo
+1
#840
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Geography.

You are making a hasty generalization based on a geographically predisposed stereotype.