NAFTA; Did Mexico throw Canada under the bus ?


Hoid
#31
Note that the Trump deal is good prior to even hearing what it is?
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Trump: NAFTA trade agreement with Mexico 'looking good'

Just reported deal is done with Mexico, Canada will now have to follow the blue print laid out

I'll believe it when I hear the Mexican officials confirm that it is done.

On that note, Canada is now in the position to either accept, reject or modify the deal to suit its liking if the US and Mexico want a 3-way arrangement.

This is not a bad outcome for Canada at all
 
petros
+1
#33
1 out and the bases loaded.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+1
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I'll believe it when I hear the Mexican officials confirm that it is done.

On that note, Canada is now in the position to either accept, reject or modify the deal to suit its liking if the US and Mexico want a 3-way arrangement.

This is not a bad outcome for Canada at all

Mexican President was in on the press conference via phone proclaiming the deal is done now to include Canada.

Canadian officials changing their tune a bit by saying the deal has to be good for the middle class when they get included
 
coldstream
+3
#35
This was inevitable. A world of economic nationalism and flexible, bilateral trade agreements founded on the best interests of both parties in developing sovereign, national, integrated, industrustrial economies presents more opportunities than threats for Canada. But we need someone with strength and vision to stand up for Canada. That flapping flowerchild adrift in his global Woodstock, Justin, will simply get stomped on by Trump.
Last edited by coldstream; Aug 27th, 2018 at 01:03 PM..
 
Hoid
#36
Note we got stomped prior to knowing what has even happened?
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#37
Canadian officials said they have been in constant contact with the negotiating teams and are in favour of the bilateral deal
 
Hoid
#38
there have been negotiations going on for months and months.

of note the new deal is said to have a 16 year review framework.

so the Americans gave up on the 5 year sunset clause
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Mexican President was in on the press conference via phone proclaiming the deal is done now to include Canada.

Ummm, kinda presumptive statement considering that no one has seen the deal yet, let alone if it's anywhere close to where Canada wants to be.

Canucks stand in a good position right now


Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

Canadian officials changing their tune a bit by saying the deal has to be good for the middle class when they get included

Justine must be getting pretty desperate if he's already trying to invoke the best interests of the middle class. Hell, the election is still a fair ways off
 
Hoid
#40
9 million American jobs depend on Canada.

That is all you need go know to understand why these negotiations are just bullshit. All they want to do is get rid of the name NAFTA - because it is a Clinton legacy thing.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+2 / -1
#41
We shoulda been in the driver's seat leading the re-negotiations demanding concessions from Mexico not in the backseat agreeing to the direction the road is taking us
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

We shoulda been in the driver's seat leading the re-negotiations demanding concessions from Mexico not in the backseat agreeing to the direction the road is taking us

Completely agree, however, there's nothing here that stipulates that Canada has to agree to anything in the Mexico/US bilateral trade agreement.

I'll wager that this will be more along the lines of 3 bi-lateral agreements in the form of Canada/US, Canada/Mexico and Mexico/US.

Also, that 5 year Sunset Clause executable by any of the 3 nations is also a good idea ~ prevents any bullshit from an egomanical leader that thinks they know what they're doing
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#43
I agree, but Canada is under pressure to agree now, someone I think Hoid mentioned that the 5 year has been negotiated to 18 years, I kinda like the 5 year clause in a changing world
 
Hoid
+1
#44
Also Mr Trump cannot simply end nafta and start his new bilateral agreement with mexico.

Nafta is still in effect and will remain in effect until the new deal is n place - which is what the mexican president is saying.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#45
Of course until it passes through all Gov. involved
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

I agree, but Canada is under pressure to agree now, someone I think Hoid mentioned that the 5 year has been negotiated to 18 years, I kinda like the 5 year clause in a changing world

Canada can apply just as much pressure by virtue of stalling or seeking trade arrangements with other nations prior to dealing with Trump.... There's a ton of different games that can be played here

As far as the 5 year agreement goes, why not?... It basically renders any agreement as useless and essentially non-binding.

If this is what Trump wants, market uncertainty and the very real potential for all of those mfg jobs he promised to create to move offshore, he'll be getting exactly that
 
petros
+2
#47
The "green economy" needs Mexican copper more than ever.
 
MHz
#48
Nice to know the US has our back, too bad we are the last to know it is for practice at stabbing.
https://sputniknews.com/business/201...-trade-mexico/
Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto told US President Donald Trump that Mexico wanted Canada to be incorporated into the United States-Mexico new trade agreement that would become an alternative to NAFTA.

Donald Trump said on Monday that the United States and Mexico had reached a trade agreement, but that it would not be referred to as the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
"They used to call it NAFTA, we’re going to call it the United States-Mexico trade agreement and we’ll get rid of the name NAFTA," Trump told reporters. "It has a bad connotation because the United States was hurt very badly by NAFTA for many years."
According to Trump, the new trade deal is very special for manufacturers and farmers.
He also noted that Washington had not started working on a trade agreement with Canada yet, as it wanted to see first if the deal with Mexico was possible.
The US president stressed that he would either impose tariffs on Canadian cars or reach a negotiated deal with the Canadian government.
"I think with Canada, frankly, the easier thing we can do is tariff their cars coming in, it's a tremendous amount of money and it's a very simple negotiation… I think we'll give them a chance to probably have a separate deal or perhaps we'll put it in to this deal," Trump told reporters.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

The "green economy" needs Mexican copper more than ever.

You spelled 'South America' wrong or is the continent going to be under US sanctions.
 
CaptainTrips
+1
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Also Mr Trump cannot simply end nafta and start his new bilateral agreement with mexico.

Nafta is still in effect and will remain in effect until the new deal is n place - which is what the mexican president is saying.

Any of the partners in NAFTA can end their participation in it after giving six months notice. Trump could give the notice. It is uncertain whether he could take the US out without congressional approval.


Trump has made his position very clear. Our tariffs on US dairy have to go or he will tariff our car exports. Our Feminist-in-Chief has to decide which is more important to him, continuing to shelter dairy farmers from competition or saving the auto industry.
 
Hoid
#50
Trump has made his position very clear?

What an odd thing to say.
 
MHz
#51
. . . for the day, the CIA usually gives him the list of what he got wrong the next morning and early afternoon
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

Also Mr Trump cannot simply end nafta and start his new bilateral agreement with mexico.

Nafta is still in effect and will remain in effect until the new deal is n place - which is what the mexican president is saying.


Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainTrips View Post

Any of the partners in NAFTA can end their participation in it after giving six months notice. Trump could give the notice. It is uncertain whether he could take the US out without congressional approval.


Trump has made his position very clear. Our tariffs on US dairy have to go or he will tariff our car exports. Our Feminist-in-Chief has to decide which is more important to him, continuing to shelter dairy farmers from competition or saving the auto industry.


Isn't NAFTA a Tri lateral Agreement, meaning all three opt-out or it stay's in effect, unless the 6 months notice is given, etc...& with just Mexico & the USA involved with Canada froze out for the last five weeks in a "Americian-Mexican" Bi lateral agreement with Canada 'enco uraged ' to jump in and sign up in the next four days by Friday or be left out.....can't Canada just squash this by saying, "Nope, not enough time" and then everyone goes back to the drawing table....and the current Mexican President is out Dec 1st,2018 and someone new represents Mexico...and the Americans needing 90 days to ratify a new deal (right or wrong)....and the American Mid-term elections to happen in early November 2018....leaving the Mexican Gov't in limbo and Trump without this talking point going into the Mid-Terms, and having Justine place Canada back into the negotiations in a position not as anyone's whipping dog? Why is this not happening? Why is this Tri lateral Agreement proceeding with just two/third s of the member countries involved in the negotiations? That's Bullshit and needs to be publicly stepped on and stalled this week before Friday, for a minimum of three months and then revisited by all three parties involved. Trump can go into the Mid-Terms empty handed on North American Trade Agreements, and Nieto can have already faded into the sunset by December 2018 and replaced with a more Leftist Gov't, and then we go for strike 2 on NAFTA.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+1
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

We shoulda been in the driver's seat leading the re-negotiations demanding concessions from Mexico not in the backseat agreeing to the direction the road is taking us

Sorry about the neg can't find the buttons
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
#54
ANALYSIS: Chrystia Freeland raised Trump’s ire with key speech

Quote:

President Donald Trump was infuriated by a major foreign policy speech delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland in Washington D.C. in June of this year, sources tell Global News.
Minister Freeland travelled to the U.S. capital to receive the prestigious Diplomat of the Year Award from Foreign Policy Magazine.
In her acceptance speech, Freeland directly addressed Americans in the room, raising concerns about the direction the United States has been taking under the Trump administration. She criticized America’s approach to international relations including trade, tariffs, and key alliances like NATO.
While the speech received much critical praise, the White House felt differently. Sources say both U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and President Trump viewed the speech as an insult, not only targeting administration publicly but doing so on their turf in Washington.
The conflict came at a crucial time when the relationship was souring shortly after the challenging G7 meetings in Charlevoix, Que.
The White House was not fond of Chrystia Freeland even before the speech, according to multiple sources who said the president’s staff and allies dislike Minister Freeland, her policy positions, and how she negotiates.
Critics are asking if the negative impression of Freeland at the White House has affected NAFTA negotiations.
Senior government officials in Ottawa insist they’re not worried about that, saying the deal is far bigger than personalities. The Trudeau government believes that Freeland is only disliked because she has been so relentless in bluntly pushing forward Canadian interests.
The speech was no oversight, said one source who indicated it was designed to send a message to Canada’s allies in the U.S. that Canada would not back down. This was a calculated decision aimed at shoring up support for a NAFTA deal.
The Days Ahead
The Trudeau government believes this could be the most critical week yet in NAFTA negotiations and that a deal could be done by the end of the week.
The U.S.-Mexico trade deal announced Monday was welcomed by government officials and in public statements celebrated it as a sign of things to come for Canada. Sources say they believe Trump is willing to negotiate and so is Ottawa.

5 new rules the U.S.-Mexico trade deal would set

After almost a year of negotiations between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico to update the 24-year-old North American Free Trade Agreement, the latter two countries announced the framework of a deal on Monday , with Canada on the outside looking in — for now.

Here's a rough guide to what's in the agreement:
1. New rules for auto sector
In order for a vehicle to sell in the U.S. without tariffs in the new deal, at least 75 per cent of it must have been built in one of the two countries. NAFTA was more lenient, only requiring a 62.5 per cent quota for a car to be considered "domestic" and thus exempt from tariffs.

Another key detail is a requirement that between 40 and 45 per cent of automotive content be made by workers earning at least $16 US per hour. Functionally, that likely means more car parts will be built and assembled in the U.S. But it could also raise wages or add more higher-paying positions in Mexico, too.
2. Piracy and intellectual property
The agreement will see both countries crack down on piracy and counterfeit goods, the theft of satellite or cable signals, and illegal recording of movies. In terms of intellectual property, the agreement extends the same copyright protection that U.S. creators have at home into the Mexican market. It strengthens patent protection in the pharmaceutical and agricultural sectors, including 10 years of protection for biologic drugs.
The agreement establishes ground rules for digital trade. That's something that didn't exist in the old deal, dating from 1994, because it covers things like e-books, videos, music, software and computer games, none of which existed in their current form 24 years ago.
3. Labour laws and environmental regulations
The deal also requires companies to respect collective bargaining, which is the process by which trade unions can make labour agreements on behalf of workers, and requires that companies adhere to all applicable labour laws. Specifically, the deal includes rules "to prohibit the importation of goods produced by forced labour, to address violence against workers exercising their labour rights, and to ensure that migrant workers are protected under labour laws."
The agreement also includes obligations by both sides to combat trafficking in wildlife, timber and fish, including protections for marine species like whales and sea turtles and a prohibition on shark-finning.
The deal address issues of air quality and marine litter, although few details of those components have been released.
4. Duty free limits raised
The deal will also see Mexico raise its so-called "de minimis" threshold to $100 US from $50 previously. That's the amount that Mexicans can import from the U.S. duty free. That issue was a key request of the U.S., which has long wanted Canada and Mexico to raise their de minimis levels . Currently, Canada imposes duties on imported goods worth more than $20 US. The U.S., meanwhile, allows its citizens to import $800 US from abroad, penalty free.
5. No automatic 'sunset clause'
From the moment NAFTA renegotiations started last year, U.S. officials pushed for something called a "sunset clause" which is effectively a way for them to push the escape button and force a new deal, if the terms of trade didn't improve to their liking. Canada and Mexico pushed back at that, saying it would cause uncertainty, as investors would be unlikely to spend money to expand plants if they worried the deal could be torn up at any moment, robbing them of access to the U.S. market.
Monday's deal appears to have a very watered down version of that concept, as the pact would run for 16 years. After six years, both sides would meet and decide whether or not they wanted to renew for another 16 years. If there were any issues, they could agree to meet on an annual basis to make sure outstanding issues didn't "fester" as one senior White House official put it. And crucially, the deal would never automatically expire upon the clause being implemented. The idea being, the official said, "that you're always far enough away from the end that it will not affect investment."
Next steps …
The proposed deal announced Monday is only the framework of one that requires approval by the U.S House of Representatives and Senate before becoming law. The White House hopes to get that ball rolling as early as Friday, when it will submit the formal paperwork for a 90-day review period.
If the White House sticks to that time-frame, it gives Canadian officials less than a week to sign on, or risk the deal moving ahead without them. But it's clear the appetite in Washington would prefer a three-way deal.
"We are better off with all three countries involved, and I hope we will get to that result," the official said
 
spilledthebeer
+1
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

ANALYSIS: Chrystia Freeland raised Trump’s ire with key speech



5 new rules the U.S.-Mexico trade deal would set

After almost a year of negotiations between Canada, the U.S. and Mexico to update the 24-year-old North American Free Trade Agreement, the latter two countries announced the framework of a deal on Monday , with Canada on the outside looking in — for now.

Here's a rough guide to what's in the agreement:
1. New rules for auto sector
In order for a vehicle to sell in the U.S. without tariffs in the new deal, at least 75 per cent of it must have been built in one of the two countries. NAFTA was more lenient, only requiring a 62.5 per cent quota for a car to be considered "domestic" and thus exempt from tariffs.

Another key detail is a requirement that between 40 and 45 per cent of automotive content be made by workers earning at least $16 US per hour. Functionally, that likely means more car parts will be built and assembled in the U.S. But it could also raise wages or add more higher-paying positions in Mexico, too.
2. Piracy and intellectual property
The agreement will see both countries crack down on piracy and counterfeit goods, the theft of satellite or cable signals, and illegal recording of movies. In terms of intellectual property, the agreement extends the same copyright protection that U.S. creators have at home into the Mexican market. It strengthens patent protection in the pharmaceutical and agricultural sectors, including 10 years of protection for biologic drugs.
The agreement establishes ground rules for digital trade. That's something that didn't exist in the old deal, dating from 1994, because it covers things like e-books, videos, music, software and computer games, none of which existed in their current form 24 years ago.
3. Labour laws and environmental regulations
The deal also requires companies to respect collective bargaining, which is the process by which trade unions can make labour agreements on behalf of workers, and requires that companies adhere to all applicable labour laws. Specifically, the deal includes rules "to prohibit the importation of goods produced by forced labour, to address violence against workers exercising their labour rights, and to ensure that migrant workers are protected under labour laws."
The agreement also includes obligations by both sides to combat trafficking in wildlife, timber and fish, including protections for marine species like whales and sea turtles and a prohibition on shark-finning.
The deal address issues of air quality and marine litter, although few details of those components have been released.
4. Duty free limits raised
The deal will also see Mexico raise its so-called "de minimis" threshold to $100 US from $50 previously. That's the amount that Mexicans can import from the U.S. duty free. That issue was a key request of the U.S., which has long wanted Canada and Mexico to raise their de minimis levels . Currently, Canada imposes duties on imported goods worth more than $20 US. The U.S., meanwhile, allows its citizens to import $800 US from abroad, penalty free.
5. No automatic 'sunset clause'
From the moment NAFTA renegotiations started last year, U.S. officials pushed for something called a "sunset clause" which is effectively a way for them to push the escape button and force a new deal, if the terms of trade didn't improve to their liking. Canada and Mexico pushed back at that, saying it would cause uncertainty, as investors would be unlikely to spend money to expand plants if they worried the deal could be torn up at any moment, robbing them of access to the U.S. market.
Monday's deal appears to have a very watered down version of that concept, as the pact would run for 16 years. After six years, both sides would meet and decide whether or not they wanted to renew for another 16 years. If there were any issues, they could agree to meet on an annual basis to make sure outstanding issues didn't "fester" as one senior White House official put it. And crucially, the deal would never automatically expire upon the clause being implemented. The idea being, the official said, "that you're always far enough away from the end that it will not affect investment."
Next steps …
The proposed deal announced Monday is only the framework of one that requires approval by the U.S House of Representatives and Senate before becoming law. The White House hopes to get that ball rolling as early as Friday, when it will submit the formal paperwork for a 90-day review period.
If the White House sticks to that time-frame, it gives Canadian officials less than a week to sign on, or risk the deal moving ahead without them. But it's clear the appetite in Washington would prefer a three-way deal.
"We are better off with all three countries involved, and I hope we will get to that result," the official said

================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ============================

NAFTA IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mexico has agreed to face saving details that hide the fact they are getting NOTHING SOLID!!!!!!!!!

One detail of the not yet ratified- and maybe never will be "deal" is the new requirement that much of a car be assembled in special economic zones where the minimum wage will be $16.00 dollars per hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds GREAT DOESNT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any Mexican would be a volunteer SLAVE for that wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too bad for Mexico it will be Yankees in impoverished rust belt sections of the country doing the jobs for that fine wage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While downward pressure on union UAW wages CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AS for General Motors Canada and CAW? Good Bye!!!!!!!!!!!

General Motors now has NO REASON to stay in Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And is it not handy that LIE-berals and CAW union managed to let GM wind down so gently to NOTHING!!!!

This gentle ending means Oshawa will NOT endure major fiscal disruption since Gm facilities were pretty much turned into ghost towns some years back!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
MHz
#56
Mexico has been favored over Canada forever, the drug industry get more US funding than the Canadian oil patch does. Barry Seals was a better American patriot than McCain was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVk9VBC8p90&t=3s

Crack Babies, the Contras, and the CIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9nWJQ5FuIE
Cocaine Cowboys Reloaded: Barry Seal
 
Hoid
#57
SO the upshot of all these months of negotiation is that NAFTA will be very slightly revised.


MAGA
 
MHz
#58
It is an example of how to get nothing accomplished in the longest time-frame possible while making it as expensive as possible, Velcum to Amerika Comrade.
 
OpposingDigit
#59
I understand that Mexico may have ageed to pay auto workers in a specific area 15 dollars per hour.

My question is ..... Is that 15 dollars American money?

We all realize that inflation is going to go through the roof and that most all other Central America and Latin American countries have their currencies collapsing in value against the U.S. Dollar.

If this 15 dollars is not to be paid as equivalent to the value of American Dollars, Mexico will very shortly find themselves with the identical situation as they are today and remain quite competitive.
 
Hoid
#60
The $16 is what Mexico will have to pay a certain percentage of their workers for making a certain percentage of their cars.

It is the sort of socialism that only a true free marketer can appreciate.