Manslaughter the Beak says!


JLM
+1 / -1
#1  Top Rated Post
Travis Vader murder convictions vacated, guilty of manslaughter instead - Edmonton - CBC News


H.T.F. can a man who deliberately murdered two people for financial gain be merely convicted of manslaughter? Why should a f**k up by the judge diminish the seriousness of the crime? We DON'T have a JUSTICE system. It's a legal dysfunctional system at best. Perhaps the decision should be transferred from the judge to the family, since the judge is unable to "walk a mile in their shoes"
Has our "Justice System" disintegrated to the level of the O.J. trial?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#2
The prosecution failed to prove intent. The intent was derived from a section of the criminal code which was overturned due to charter of rights and freedoms. Because of that choice is lesser conviction or new trial. Judge opted for the former.
 
personal touch
+1
#3
6 years to get it right?Then the crown wants to go on an alternate path of Justice,to ensure a conviction
How embarrassing for the crown

Plain as day something went wrong in this case,would be a wonderful case to examine within information auditing
Something really stinks about this case,as many cases in Alberta
The Justice is best to say nothing,unless he knows what he is doing
6 years is as crazy as the Mayerthorpe Mr.Big sting

Who approves the funding for these processes?Do they see a problem with 6 years?
 
Cannuck
#4
There is no proof they are dead therefore no cause of death. The crown did a good job all things considered
 
JLM
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by personal touch View Post

6 years to get it right?Then the crown wants to go on an alternate path of Justice,to ensure a conviction
How embarrassing for the crown

Plain as day something went wrong in this case,would be a wonderful case to examine within information auditing
Something really stinks about this case,as many cases in Alberta
The Justice is best to say nothing,unless he knows what he is doing
6 years is as crazy as the Mayerthorpe Mr.Big sting

Who approves the funding for these processes?Do they see a problem with 6 years?


You got that right. His D.N.A. was all over the scene of the crime and He made calls on their Cell phone! And then there's a few idiots who surmise they are not dead! Not surprising I guess as there are also those who believes Elvis still walks among us. Maybe Ponoka needs an upgrade to contain a few more tenants!
 
Cannuck
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

... And then there's a few idiots who surmise they are not dead!

Really? Who? I'd be shocked if we could find one person in Canada that thinks they're alive.


I think you're confusing "proof" and "evidence". That's not surprising given some of the idiotic posts you've made regarding legal issues.
 
bobnoorduyn
#7
The Crown obviously did not meet the burden of proof that is required for a conviction of murder. Intent has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. The trial judge screwed up using a no longer existent section of the CC. There were no bodies, it was a pretty tough row to hoe. I guess we'll have to see what sentencing brings.


Then you look at the Dennis Oland trial, there's one I believe was messed up from the beginning in the other direction. My wife is good friends with a cousin of Richard Oland, and yes, the family is quite dysfunctional, but I don't think anyone believes Dennis could have committed such a brutal crime. We'll see what happens with that re-trial.


Sometimes the system works, but all too often it fails miserably.
 
JLM
#8
[QUOTE=bobnoorduyn;2361666]The Crown obviously did not meet the burden of proof that is required for a conviction of murder. Intent has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. The trial judge screwed up using a no longer existent section of the CC. There were no bodies, it was a pretty tough row to hoe. I guess we'll have to see what sentencing brings.


/QUOTE]


In spite of all that it was just reported on Global National News that there is absolutely no doubt that Travis killed the victims. The judge should get his knuckles rapped for his error, but his error is apparently a moot point as far as the proof of the crime is concerned. I personally think the evidence is there for a first degree murder conviction.................which can be imposed for a murder committed during the commission of another crime (theft).

"The maximum penalty for manslaughter in Canada is life in prison. Canada does not have a death penalty. For manslaughter, there is no minimum sentence either, so it's anything from probation to life in prison."


Perhaps all is not lost in this case. If the judge has any gumption or moxie he can impose a life sentence. If the death penalty was still on the table, (but alas it's not) as that sentence could be taken off the table in exchange for disclosure of the location of the bodies!
 
Cannuck
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I personally think the evidence is there for a first degree murder conviction...

But you're a moron so I doubt anybody in the justice system cares what you "personally think"

(Thank Gawd)
 
personal touch
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

There is no proof they are dead therefore no cause of death. The crown did a good job all things considered

Get real!
 
Cannuck
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by personal touch View Post

Get real!

I am.
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by personal touch View Post

Get real!


REality is not part of his vocabulary. As far as I'm concerned Vader is guilty of two charges of first degree murder. First degree can mean one of two things....................premeditated murder or murder committed during the commission of another crime...............arson is a crime and theft is crime.................Numbnuts can take his pick.
 
Cannuck
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

REality is not part of his vocabulary. As far as I'm concerned Vader is guilty of two charges of first degree murder. First degree can mean one of two things....................premeditated murder or murder committed during the commission of another crime...............arson is a crime and theft is crime.................Numbnuts can take his pick.

You're an idiot that doesn't understand the legal system.
 
personal touch
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

You got that right. His D.N.A. was all over the scene of the crime and He made calls on their Cell phone! And then there's a few idiots who surmise they are not dead! Not surprising I guess as there are also those who believes Elvis still walks among us. Maybe Ponoka needs an upgrade to contain a few more tenants!

We are talking apples and oranges,this case like many cases are not making it Correctly through the courts,why this is so is my interest.
Not really into evidence unless there is evidence of information laundering,
Wish I could effectively give my opinion, but I cannot

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

REality is not part of his vocabulary. As far as I'm concerned Vader is guilty of two charges of first degree murder. First degree can mean one of two things....................premeditated murder or murder committed during the commission of another crime...............arson is a crime and theft is crime.................Numbnuts can take his pick.

Olive branch?
 
JLM
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by personal touch View Post

We are talking apples and oranges,this case like many cases are not making it Correctly through the courts,why this is so is my interest.
Not really into evidence unless there is evidence of information laundering,
Wish I could effectively give my opinion, but I cannot


Ièm guessing if you apply common sense to the facts that are known in this case youèll draw the right conclusion. Finger prints donèt lie, cell phone records donèt lie, D.N.A. doesnèt lie, add to that motive and opportunity and you have the answer. If the forum idiot is as smart as he thinks he is he will have identified an alternate perpetrator, but I donèt hear him voicing it. Add to that unless the alternate perpetrator is a ghost heéshe would have left evidence such as finger prints, boot prints etc. etc. I wonder how the lawyer who is getting him off will feel when he commits another deadly crime.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Ièm guessing if you apply common sense to the facts that are known in this case youèll draw the right conclusion. Finger prints donèt lie, cell phone records donèt lie, D.N.A. doesnèt lie, add to that motive and opportunity and you have the answer. If the forum idiot is as smart as he thinks he is he will have identified an alternate perpetrator, but I donèt hear him voicing it. Add to that unless the alternate perpetrator is a ghost heéshe would have left evidence such as finger prints, boot prints etc. etc. I wonder how the lawyer who is getting him off will feel when he commits another deadly crime.

He didn't get off. He got charged with manslaughter (3rd degree murder). The prosecution failed to prove intent (2nd degree) or pre-meditation (1st degree).
 
JLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

He didn't get off. He got charged with manslaughter (3rd degree murder). The prosecution failed to prove intent (2nd degree) or pre-meditation (1st degree).


I might buy that if there was only one victim, but he mistakenly killed two peopleÉ I think what is much more plausible is they are both dead because he didnèt want to leave any witnesses! (My keyboard is f**king up)
 
Cannuck
#18
Alternate perpetrator? Good Gawd you're a moron!
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I might buy that if there was only one victim, but he mistakenly killed two peopleÉ I think what is much more plausible is they are both dead because he didnèt want to leave any witnesses! (My keyboard is f**king up)

Without exact means on how he killed them, that intent is hard to prove in court.
 
JLM
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

Without exact means on how he killed them, that intent is hard to prove in court.


Yep, it's a sad case for sure with every body benefitting (the accused, lawyers) except the victims and their families. Justice HAS NOT prevailed in this case.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Yep, it's a sad case for sure with every body benefitting (the accused, lawyers) except the victims and their families. Justice HAS NOT prevailed in this case.

Since when have the courts ever been about justice?
 
JLM
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

Since when have the courts ever been about justice?


And they won't as long as those like the resident idiot on here keeps defending them. "Beyond unreasonable doubt" doesn't benefit the victims.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

REality is not part of his vocabulary. As far as I'm concerned Vader is guilty of two charges of first degree murder. First degree can mean one of two things....................premeditated murder or murder committed during the commission of another crime...............arson is a crime and theft is crime.................Numbnuts can take his pick.

Really? Your felony murder rule is first degree?

Wow. I thought we were harsh, and felony murder's only second degree hereabouts.
 
JLM
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Really? Your felony murder rule is first degree?

Wow. I thought we were harsh, and felony murder's only second degree hereabouts.


Apparently people who think they know more than I do tell me there is no such word as "felony" in Canada. I'm not sure how I knew what it meant. Anyway we have first degree........................murder committed with planning before hand OR murder committed during the commission of another crime, Second degree murder...............murder with intent but NO planning and Manslaughter..........killing with omission of intent or via a careless act..........................approximately.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Apparently people who think they know more than I do tell me there is no such word as "felony" in Canada. I'm not sure how I knew what it meant. Anyway we have first degree........................murder committed with planning before hand OR murder committed during the commission of another crime, Second degree murder...............murder with intent but NO planning and Manslaughter..........killing with omission of intent or via a careless act..........................approximately.

The issue is that the part about guilty in commission of another crime was based upon section 230 of the criminal code. The Supreme Court struck that section down. So it is not there. That is why it is manslaughter.


Travis Vader verdict: what is Section 230 of the Criminal Code? | Globalnews.ca
 
Tecumsehsbones
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

The issue is that the part about guilty in commission of another crime was based upon section 230 of the criminal code. The Supreme Court struck that section down. So it is not there. That is why it is manslaughter.


Travis Vader verdict: what is Section 230 of the Criminal Code? | Globalnews.ca

Thanks for that.
 
Cannuck
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

The issue is that the part about guilty in commission of another crime was based upon section 230 of the criminal code. The Supreme Court struck that section down. So it is not there. That is why it is manslaughter.


Travis Vader verdict: what is Section 230 of the Criminal Code? | Globalnews.ca

You're just going to confuse the old fart.
 
JLM
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

The issue is that the part about guilty in commission of another crime was based upon section 230 of the criminal code. The Supreme Court struck that section down. So it is not there. That is why it is manslaughter.


Travis Vader verdict: what is Section 230 of the Criminal Code? | Globalnews.ca


I STAND CORRECTED (I don't agree with it)
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I STAND CORRECTED (I don't agree with it)

I am sure there were even dissenting opinions on the SCoC but less than 1/2 obviously.
 
Cannuck
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I STAND CORRECTED

That's par for the course. Maybe you should just wait until you understand an issue before you spout off like an idiot.