Easter Rebellion 90th anniversary


Jersay
#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060416/...NlYwN5bmNhdA--

DUBLIN, Ireland - More than 2,500 Irish military personnel, some saluting atop tanks and others marching with fixed bayonets, paraded Sunday past the bullet-scarred spot where rebels launched a fateful Easter 1916 rebellion against British rule.

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It was the first such commemoration in four decades because of official sensitivities over IRA bloodshed.

Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, President Mary McAleese and several hundred descendants of the Easter Rising rebels watched from the main viewing stands as the military parade passed down Dublin's major thoroughfare, O'Connell Street, and past its iconic General Post Office, the rebels' headquarters for the weeklong Easter Rising.

Tens of thousands of people lined the route, while hundreds of thousands more watched live on RTE state television.

"Today is a day of remembrance, reconciliation and renewal," Ahern said in a speech shortly before the parade. "Today is about discharging one generation's debt of honor to another. Today, we will fittingly commemorate the patriotism and vision of those who set in train an unstoppable process which led to this country's political independence."

As the green, white and orange Tricolor of the Irish Republic was lowered to half-mast over the General Post Office, an army officer stepped forward to recreate the moment when Ireland's eventual independence was proclaimed by rebel leader Padraig Pearse.

"In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom," the soldier read, as Pearse had done 90 years before.

At that time, though, passing Dubliners either met the gesture with bemusement or seized the moment to begin looting shops, historians say.

This time around, solemnity prevailed. McAleese laid a wreath to the approximately 450 people killed during the rebellion as the crowd observed a minute's silence. Then the flag returned to full mast and the military march resumed to a nearby square.

Earlier, Ahern laid a memorial wreath to the 15 rebel leaders whom the British army executed in the weeks following what, by any measure, had been a military disaster for the rebels. They had seized several buildings and a central park, then waited for superior numbers of British troops — many of them Irishmen — to surround, shoot and shell them into submission.

But the 15 men's deaths by firing squad inside Dublin's Kilmainham Jail inflamed public opinion against the British and in favor of a successful 1919-21 war of independence for the predominantly Catholic south of Ireland.

Irish poet W.B. Yeats summed up the impact of the British executions in his "Easter 1916" poem, naming Pearse and three other prominent commanders who died and warning: "A terrible beauty is born."

Among those attending the jail ceremony with Ahern was the Rev. Joseph Mallin, 92, the only surviving child of the executed rebels. His father, Michael Mallin, was chief of staff of a rebel faction called the Irish Citizen Army; he was executed inside the jail on May 8, 1916.

Mallin, a Jesuit priest who has lived in Hong Kong since 1948, was flown back by the government as a special guest.

Ahern read out parts of Commandant Mallin's letter to his wife on the eve of his execution — a letter, Ahern said, that was "important for its marked absence of bitterness and for the emphasis he places on reconciliation."

Mallin wrote: "I find no fault with the soldiers or police. I forgive them from the bottom of my heart. Pray for all the souls that fell in this fight, Irish and English."

The government mounted a similarly grand General Post Office commemoration of the Rising on its 50th anniversary in 1966. But such military pomp became unpalatable once a new Irish Republican Army began bombing and shooting in the neighboring British territory of Northern Ireland.

Throughout the IRA campaign, which claimed 1,775 lives, the government did not want the public to draw links between the country's own rebel heroes and the modern killers next door. But Ahern said Ireland should begin celebrating the Rising again after the IRA last year renounced violence for political purposes and disarmed.

The partition of Ireland — a key inspiration of the modern, Northern Ireland-based IRA — came several months before rebel leaders signed a December 1921 treaty with Britain to create an Irish Free State in the predominantly Catholic south of Ireland.

That newfound freedom was soured by an bloodier 1922-23 civil war between rebels who accepted the 1921 treaty with Britain and those who opposed it, chiefly on the grounds it kept the new state tied in too many symbolic ways to Britain.
 
Jersay
#2
Now no nastyness like the last Easter Rebellion one I posted.
 
Finder
#3
To O'connor, and all other Republicans of the Irish Republic who dared to dream, but didn't live to see the fruits.
 
Blackleaf
#4
Most of the Irish Republicans were hanged by the British becauise they travelled to Germany (a country that Britain and canada was at war with in 1916) and published Irish Republican material in German newspapers and then tried to smuggle weapons into Britain.

So who really WAS in the wrong there?

However, it really WOULDN'T surprise me to find a Canadian saying that the Irish supporting the Germans in WWI wasn't a bad thing.
 
Jersay
#5
What a bunch of hogwash. Prove it.

They were hung because they were Irish republicans fighting for a homeland.

And prove that they were directly linked to the germans, prove it in historical fact.
 
Blackleaf
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

What a bunch of hogwash. Prove it.

They were hung because they were Irish republicans fighting for a homeland.

And prove that they were directly linked to the germans, prove it in historical fact.

Haven't I already proved it on the other thread about this topic?

That's the trouble with these Irish-loving North Americans - blind to the past evils of "innocent" Ireland.
 
Blackleaf
#7
Republicans disrupt auction of 1916 memorabilia in Dublin
12/04/2006 - 12:09:54



Two members of Ogra Sinn Féin have disrupted a huge auction of historical memorabilia taking place in Dublin today to coincide with the anniversary of the 1916 Easter Rising.

A total of 450 items are being put on sale in the auction, including the first known version of the national anthem and the tricolour that flew over the GPO during the Rising.

The two Ogra Sinn Féin members managed to infiltrate the crowd at the auction and shouted "Irish history should not be for sale" as one of the items was sold.

They were later bundled out of the building by gardaí, who were subsequently set upon by more republican demonstrators as they tried to put the pair in a squad car.


breaking-news.ie
----------------

Miserable, Nazi-loving gits.
 
Blackleaf
#8
I'll post it again, shall I?






Friday, December 30, 2005

Irish Republic Mourned the Death of Hitler

It's been known for years--well, actually, now that I think about it--it's been known since 1945: the government of the Irish Republic officially mourned the death of Adolph Hitler.

That's right. You read that right. Remember that the next St. Patrick's Day when some Irish-American gets all weepy about Ireland.

While our allies in Northern Ireland (UK), good Ulstermen, both Protestant and Catholic (like my own grandfather), were volunteering to fight side-by-side with us Americans in WWII, the leaders of "Eire" were officially neutral, hiding behind John Bull and Uncle Sam while biting at both their ankles and secretly rooting for the Germans. Remember that the next time you read that the Irish don't much care for the U.S. Government, our foreign policy or President Bush; nothing new there. Remember that the next time former Irish President Mary Robinson lectures you.

Over the years, good (that is to say, liberal) Irishmen and women have denied that this ever took place. Their story usually is something like: "okay, we were neutral, but it's more complicated than that and, in reality, we actually aided the U.K. and the U.S. by providing intelligence and holding any Germans that we got hold of, but this 'condolences on the death of Hitler' thing is just Unionist propaganda, making a mountain out of a simple diplomatic protocol molehill."

Like most liberal history re-writing, it simply isn't true.

Contemporary reports are beginning to butress the truth of the matter, as illustrated by this report from this morning by the AP:

Irish President Offered Nazis Condolences
By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer

Ireland's president during World War II offered condolences to Nazi Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified government records show.

Until now, historians had believed that Ireland's prime minister at the time, Eamon de Valera, was the only government leader to convey official condolences to Eduard Hempel, director of the German diplomatic corps in Ireland. De Valera's gesture "unique among leaders of neutral nations in the final weeks of World War II" was criticized worldwide.

The presidential protocol record for 1938-1957, made public this week within a trove of previously secret government documents, shed new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in the history of independent Ireland - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged.

The new document confirmed that President Douglas Hyde visited Hempel on May 3, 1945, a day after Ireland received reports of Hitler's death.

The newly released document says Hyde "who served as Ireland's symbolic head of state from 1938 to 1945 and died in 1949" visited Hempel at the diplomat's home in Dun Laoghaire, a Dublin suburb. It says the president did not send an official letter of condolence to German government headquarters because "the capital of Germany, Berlin, was under siege and no successor had been appointed."

The Republic of Ireland, then called Eire, remained neutral throughout World War II, which in local parlance was called "The Emergency."

Tens of thousands of Irishmen volunteered to serve in British military units, but many others rooted for Germany against their old imperial master Britain. The outlawed Irish Republican Army built contacts with the Nazis in an ultimately fruitless effort to receive weapons and money for insurrection in neighboring Northern Ireland, a British territory.

De Valera's government brutally suppressed the IRA but also rebuffed requests to allow Jews fleeing Nazi persecution to receive asylum in Ireland. De Valera also refused to allow Britain or the United States to use strategic Irish ports for protecting Atlantic convoys from attacks by German U-boat submarines, a policy that cost thousands of Allied seamen's lives.

In his May 1945 victory speech, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill condemned de Valera's neutrality. Churchill said Britain had considered laying "a violent hand" on neutral Ireland to seize its ports, but avoided this thanks to the crucial support of Northern Ireland, which remained part of the United Kingdom when the island was partitioned in 1921.

But de Valera argued that to refuse condolences "would have been an act of unpardonable discourtesy to the German nation and to Dr. Hempel himself. During the whole of the war, Dr. Hempel's conduct was irreproachable. ... I certainly was not going to add to his humiliation in the hour of defeat."



I'm sure it's also news to American "progressives" that the IRA allied itself to the Nazi cause, just as its allied itself to radical Islam today.

Remember all this the next time some smug Irish person lords it all over you as an unwashed American. You might say something like, "Yes, we do have the death penalty in the U.S., but you'll excuse me if I don't take moral lessons from a citizen of a country that regretted the passing of Hitler while mine was fighting tooth and nail for the free Europe you enjoy today and somehow think that you built."

Or something like that.

http://newsisyphus.blogspot.com/2005...of-hitler.html
 
Blackleaf
#9
And this.

One of the survivors of the Easter Uprisings, Eamonn de Valera, who later became Ireland's first President when it broke away from Britain, was hugely anti-Semitic and was a known Nazi supporter.

How the Irish Free State Supported the Nazis and Hated Jews
(from FAIR - Families Acting for Innocent Relatives - the ionnocents killed by the IRA)

The Nazi side of the Irish Republican Movement

Mary McAleese (Irish President)

The recent inflammatory comments made by Presidential hate-monger Mary McAleese has brought to public attention the issue of Nazism and anti-Semitism. As the world stopped to remember the Nazi genocide 60 years on from the Allied liberation of Auschwitz, it is fitting if we remember the allegiances between the citizens and government of what what was the Irish Free State, including their most radical front - Sinn Fein/IRA; and anti-Semitism/National Socialism.



de Valera's beloved Fuhrer

The sectarian and inflammatory comments made by Mary McAleese were as follows: (stated with reference to Nazis)

"They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things,"

The implication of which is the Ulster Protestants are as abhorrent as Nazis, while Roman Catholics as victimised as Jewry, and thus Irish Republicanism's bloody struggle murdering thousands of innocent Protestants is perfectly justifiable. To oppose this would therefore be tantamount to supporting Nazism.

These comments were hardly surprising coming from someone whose republican terrorist sympathies have been no great secret. The reality of Irish treatment of Jews and their conduct during World War Two should cause Mrs McAleese to hang her head in shame rather than pontificate to others.

We only have to look back to the first Irish holocaust memorial day on 26th January 2003 when Justice Minister Michael McDowell openly apologized for Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted antisemitism in Ireland," which discouraged immigration by Europe's shattered Jews. He said that "at an official level the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling toward the Jews."

Eamon de Valera

Sixty Years ago on the 2nd May 1945 just at the close of World War Two the political leader of the Irish Free State and embodiment of the Irish Republican movement failed even to be discreet in his support for Nazism. Eamon de Valera, the survivor of the 1916 Easter rising (a track record for helping German war efforts), saw fit to sign a petition of condolence at the German legation in Dublin to express his grief on the death of Hitler. Furthermore, he went to personally commiserate with the Nazi representative in Eire, Dr Eduard Hempel on the death of their beloved Fuhrer. Later on the Dublin mob vandalised the British High Commission and the US embassy on news of the Allied victory, both countries being outraged at Ireland's attitude and actions.

Please note this event took place a full three months after the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and the revelation of the full horror of the Nazi genocide, and was only two weeks after British troops had liberated Bergen-Belsen, accompanied as it happened by an Irish doctor. There could be no possibility that de Valera and the Dail were unaware of the Nazi treatment of Jews, and yet the leader of supposedly neutral Ireland still wished to pay his respects to one of the most evil men in the history of the world. It was a display of support that no other national leader on earth made. At the time it was defended as a diplomatic gesture but was one that not even General Franco was insensitive enough to make.

It is clear that de Valera was sympathetic to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, and still willing to be open about it when it was clear that there would be no comeback for Nazi Germany and no united Ireland on the back of an axis victory and the bayonets of the SS. It is interesting to note that de Valera's visit was publicly applauded in the Irish press by Irish republican supporting literary gem, George Bernard Shaw.



Irish Anti-Semitism

This of course was not the only manifestation of Irish sympathy for Nazism which led to them being rebuffed scornfully by the USA, that prevented their qualification for Marshal Aid, and delayed their entrance into the United Nations until 1957. During the War officials of the Irish Free State were outrageous in their racist anti-Semitism which was openly tolerated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy and common currency in Irish society. Indeed Hitler's racial criteria for keeping out the Jew were still being used in Eire 8 years after Hitler's death. A 1953 memo from the Dublin department of Justice argues that vetting refugees into the Republic should be on a similar basis to that 'adopted for the admission of non-Ayran refugees' in 1938 and 1939. The Department of Justice went on to depicte the eastern European Jews applying for asylum as a danger to the Irish State. "There is strong anti-Jewish feeling in this State which is particularly evident to the Alien Section of the Department of Justice." They went on to write 'Sympathy for the Jews has not been particularly excited at the recent news that some thousands are fleeing westwards because of the recent round-up of communist Jews who had been prominent in Government and in government service in eastern European countries.'

When in the Dail in 1943, Oliver J. Flanagan praised Hitler for ridding Germany of Jews claiming, "I doubt very much if they are human!", he was not challenged by any other member. Later in a speech to the Dail he said "There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money." Flanagan was soon to join Fine Gael and remained a T.D. for them until 1987 briefly becoming Minister for Defence in the late 1970's. In 2004 Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny T.D. eulogised the memory of the nazi monster on the resignation of his son from politics "Charlie Flanagan continued the long tradition of service given by his late father Oliver J. to the people of Laois/Offaly in exemplary fashion." An exemplary Jew hater indeed! J.J. Walsh T.D. who had been a minister in the Cosgrave government was another high ranking anti-Semite who described Irish Jews as a "gang of parasites".

Anti-Semitism and praise for fascism was also rife within the Roman Catholic hierarchy. The main body organising support for Franco was the Irish Christian Front (I.C.F.) a broad based pressure group which , in the early months of the Spanish civil war organised massive demonstrations and had, initially at least, more widespread support than the Blueshirts. The Front's founders were Patrick Belton, who was formerly a T.D. for both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as well as being an ex-Blueshirt, and Alexander McCabe, formerly elected for both Sinn Fein (pre-1922) and Cumann Na nGaedheal and later to be a member of Eoin O'Duffy's pro-nazi People's National Party. At one I.C.F. rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton, Roman Catholic Dean of Cork, blame the Spanish civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow". Beside him stood Alfred O'Rahilly, the future president of the University College of Cork, and Douglas Hyde, the future president of the Irish state who up until introduction of the Euro has his head on the Irish £50 note.

www.victims.org

So how much further proof do you need?
 
Daz_Hockey
#10
oh Blackleaf...he's so elequent
 
Jersay
#11
What ddoes that have to do with the Easter Rebellion??

Zippo.
 
Blackleaf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

What ddoes that have to do with the Easter Rebellion??

Zippo.

So you obviously didn't read it, did you?

The Easter Rising took place in 1916, during WORLD WAR I, when Great Britain was fighting the Huns.

So there we were fighting Germany, but then, with perfect timing, the Irish rebel, so then we had to fight not only the Germans, but also Irish Republicans. And it's a well-known fact that this Rising by the Paddies helped the GERMAN war effort, as the British had to concentrate on fighting Irish Republicans for a while.

And quite a few of the Irish Republicans who took part in the Uprising wanted the Germans to win World War I. One of the men was hanged for his part in the Rising did so because in 1915/1916 he went over to Germany, published Irish Republican material in German newspapers, and then attempted to smuggle weapons from Germany and into Britain, and so was executed as a traitor.

One of the survivors of the the 1916 Easter Rising was a man named De Valera - he later became the first President of the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland. He was famously anti-Semitic and supported the deportation of all Jews out of Ireland and supported Hitler and the NAZIS during WWII.

As a paragraph in the article says - "Sixty Years ago on the 2nd May 1945 just at the close of World War Two the political leader of the Irish Free State and embodiment of the Irish Republican movement failed even to be discreet in his support for Nazism. Eamon de Valera, the survivor of the 1916 Easter rising (a track record for helping German war efforts), saw fit to sign a petition of condolence at the German legation in Dublin to express his grief on the death of Hitler."
 
I think not
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

oh Blackleaf...he's so elequent

I think he needs some nookie, royal nookie.
 
Finder
#14
Holy Jesus... The British were in the wrong. I'm not going into this debate again. I have no sympathy for the British Empire as they had no sympathy when they were rapeing half the world of their freedom. Of course Blackleaf being the revisionist as he is will try to say otherwise. The british brought Civilization to all the dirty savages like the Irish, East Indians or Natives. Whatever, BlackLeaf the British empire has fallen and you are living in a dream world.

I do not mind seeing the few good things the British did, nor do I denny Canada's historic ties to the UK, but the UK never had the right, never had the right to inslave populations like it did and conqour lands. Yes, history is writen by the victor and for many years it was writen by the British but by the mid 20th centry history turned on the UK and we got a balanced view of what the British did.
 
fuzzylogix
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf

Quote: Originally Posted by Jersay

What ddoes that have to do with the Easter Rebellion??

Zippo.

So you obviously didn't read it, did you?

The Easter Rising took place in 1916, during WORLD WAR I, when Great Britain was fighting the Huns.

So there we were fighting Germany, but then, with perfect timing, the Irish rebel, so then we had to fight not only the Germans, but also Irish Republicans. And it's a well-known fact that this Rising by the Paddies helped the GERMAN war effort, as the British had to concentrate on fighting Irish Republicans for a while.

And quite a few of the Irish Republicans who took part in the Uprising wanted the Germans to win World War I. One of the men was hanged for his part in the Rising did so because in 1915/1916 he went over to Germany, published Irish Republican material in German newspapers, and then attempted to smuggle weapons from Germany and into Britain, and so was executed as a traitor.

One of the survivors of the the 1916 Easter Rising was a man named De Valera - he later became the first President of the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland. He was famously anti-Semitic and supported the deportation of all Jews out of Ireland and supported Hitler and the NAZIS during WWII.

As a paragraph in the article says - "Sixty Years ago on the 2nd May 1945 just at the close of World War Two the political leader of the Irish Free State and embodiment of the Irish Republican movement failed even to be discreet in his support for Nazism. Eamon de Valera, the survivor of the 1916 Easter rising (a track record for helping German war efforts), saw fit to sign a petition of condolence at the German legation in Dublin to express his grief on the death of Hitler."

Hitlerites and Nazi sympathizers. Let's see:

In 1937, the Duke of Windsor (Former King Edward VIII of England), and his delightful divorcee wife the Duchess, went to Germany to visit---HITLER. Yes, the dear old Duke was well known to be sympathetic to the Fascists and Hitler. In fact, in 1940, the Duke and Duchess moved to Lisbon where they lived in the house of a Banker with close ties to the German Embassy. They were about to tour around on a yacht owned by a close friend of Nazi leader Goering when the British Foreign Office had to ship them off to the Caribbean to stop him consorting with the Germans.

Let us not pretend that he was the only Brit to have sympathies with the Germans. (Even if having your King a fascist lover is enough). For example, Lord Londonderry, from one of England's most aristocratic families, and Air Minister of England in 1931, continued to meet with Hitler and stay at Goering's guest house even after 1935. He was not alone amongst the ranks......

But of course, the House of Windsor is so named to disguise the Montbatten GERMAN name that Queen Elizabeth should have taken when she married Philip.

And of course, it all becomes so understandable now, that dear little Harry would find it quite appropriate to dress up in a Nazi costume....
 
jimmoyer
#16
It's interesting how many of the Western Elite in
both America and England having an Anglo love affair
with the Saxony of German Nazism.

But still there was much more diversity than how
much this well noted affinity gets air time.

After all, Anglos kicked German ass twice, with the help
of the world.
 
Blackleaf
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Holy Jesus... The British were in the wrong. I'm not going into this debate again.

But the Irish WEREN'T in the wrong for supporting the Germans in both World Wars, is that what you're saying?

I bet, a lot of the time, you secretly think to yourself: "God, I wish Canada supported the Nazis in World War II just like my ancestral homeland Ireland." If you were Prime Minister of Canada in the 1940s, you would have made Canada collaborate with the Nazis in WWII.


Quote:

never had the right to inslave populations like it did and conqour lands.

Well, we DID in a way, as when the British Empire was around, imperialism wasn't frowned upon as it is today, and had been happening for hundreds of years before Canada was even born.

As for slavery, Britain was the first country to abolish it, in 1807.

However, in 1790, the French government voted to CONTINUE their slave trade, and the British also had to do a lot of persuading to try and get the Americans to stop theirs.
 
Finder
#18
Blackleaf, putting behind us the propaganda of WW1, the first ww was not the Germans, nor even the British fault, but an ongoing problem in Europe for about 40 years before hand with the militarism and alliance building and hatreds left from past conflics. The Irish during the ww1 wished to weaken the British as much as possible.

For ww2 the Irish signed many treaties with the UK and the Americans for them to use their sea lanes and air space, no such treaties were signed with the Germans and I would argue that the Irish Government was largely leaning closer to the British. The IRA on the other hand were still in the past wars mind set that they needed to weaken the UK further to get them out of all of Ireland. So yes the IRA was partly at fault but also the UK was as well for still being in Northern Ireland and oppressing the Irish there as they did. Of course you do not see it as oppression.
 
Blackleaf
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

The Irish during the ww1 wished to weaken the British as much as possible.

And, considering Britain was fighting German tyranny at the time, trying to weaken Britain was NOT the right thing to do.


Quote:

]For ww2 the Irish signed many treaties with the UK and the Americans for them to use their sea lanes and air space, no such treaties were signed with the Germans and I would argue that the Irish Government was largely leaning closer to the British.

The Irish wouldn't let the British and American use their ports to battle the U-Boats in the Atlantic.
 
Daz_Hockey
#20
funny Vialli qoute there blackleaf, cus you know what they say about italian men and burnt toast?.......both make dreadful soldiers!!!

nah I see the anglo/irish problem as a microcosm of the whole germanic/celtic struggle which has plauged europe since the beginning, it's wrong for either side to say they are right or wrong, I think it goes back too far to suggest who might be "wrong"
 
Blackleaf
#21
Not really. I think supporting the Nazis is wrong, even if they are fighting your old Imperial Master Britain.

I think it was wrong for the Irish to be fighting the British for their independence when the British were busy trying to fight the Germans. Just before WWI, the British were about to give Ireland its independence. It had been years in the planning. But Irish independence had to be postponed because WWI started in 1914. The Irish didn't think "Well, we'll wait until the British defeat the Germans, and then after that they'll give us our independence."

No, instead they had to rise against the British whilst we were fighting the Germans, and the Easter Rising was notorious in helping German war efforts as we had to conventrate on fighting Irish Republicans for a little while. When all they had to do was wait patiently until the after the War was over.

And I've just read on a website that anti-Semitism is still rife in the Republic of Ireland. A couple of years ago, in a football match between the Republic of Ireland and Israel in Dublin, the Irish fans sang anti-Semitic chants and raised their hands in Hitler salutes - and I think the Irish authorities did NOTHING to stop it.

In an English football ground, if just one fan gave a NAZI salute he would be punished.
 
Daz_Hockey
#22
I think you have to look at in context, I suppose the irish never realised that if britain did indeed call for a ceasefire with the nazi's like hitler so desperately wanted, there would be non-one to back them and it's probable they would still be controlled by us today.

you also have to realise a "nazi salute" is not a "persay" racist thing anyway, it's an old roman salute proclaiming that there is nothing in one's hand, perhaps thats all the irish meant

thing you gotta realise, and I find this quite akin to WBA backing Pompey last year (even though it deeply offended me, because southampton have done nothing to them, but they clearly nail their colours with the side that eventually relegated em) that even though this arguement is between us, no-one else quite understands and anything anyone else (Irish americans) do is bound to offend.
 
Blackleaf
#23
Quote:

think you have to look at in context, I suppose the irish never realised that if britain did indeed call for a ceasefire with the nazi's like hitler so desperately wanted, there would be non-one to back them and it's probable they would still be controlled by us today.

So? They would still be a part of the United Kingdom, the most democratic nation on Earth, the world's oldest surviving democracy.

That - or ruled by Nazi Germany.
 
Daz_Hockey
#24
exactly, so the nazi's would not have been good news for them either.....that indeed was my point
 
Finder
#25
Blackleaf Nazi support was much more prevalent in pre-war UK then at any time in main land Ireland. Famous Brits who come to mind just off the top of my head, Neville Chamberlain UK PM who made pacts with Hitler, Mosley the leader of the fascist Party of the UK a large facsist movement outwardly allied with the Nazi's and King Edward, the Nazi King of the UK which supported Hitler and the Nazi's. Blackleaf these are only a few with come to mind when I think of fascists and the UK.

It's amazing how you try to revise history and get onto your high horse.
 
Daz_Hockey
#26
yeah it is amazing that it took a man with dual US/UK Nationality to wake everyone up to it, it was shameful by the british governement, and if they were prepared like the great winston churchill warned, non of this would have happened.

Shame on Chamberlain, shame on the british public in the 30's and mostly shame on Mosley
 
Finder
#27
You can't really blame the puplic... they were traumatized by ww1, I think many of us put into the same situation would have felt the same way, that war should be averted at almost any cost. The only problem was that with Hitler... War could not be averted, thus trying to acieve peace with Hitler only made him stronger.

Mosley, and the movement he also made (I believe after he left the Conservative party) was pretty evil and very big at one time. Surprisingly Hitler's secrect plans for the UK after occupation was not to us Mosley or his fascists, but Hitler like in other nations they invaded wanted to use a more "legitiment" body. He was actually planning on using parts of the conservative party which had made deals with him in the past and possibly the ex-king and Chamberlain as the pupet government. In the plans there was no talk of Mosley at all. If we take what happend in Germany and other parts of Europe, Mosley most likely may have been eliminated if he did not follow orders from Germany. Such as the Leader of the SA when they did not follow direct orders from Hitler were killed during the night of long daggers and the SA destoryed .
 

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