'Star Trek': Kirk vs. Picard: Who is the ultimate captain?


spaminator
#1
'Star Trek': Kirk vs. Picard: Who is the ultimate captain?
By Jim Slotek , QMI Agency
First posted: Friday, August 22, 2014 10:00 AM EDT
Jim says... Kirk’s enthusiasm made space look cool
As a space-obsessed kid in the ’60s, I followed every second of the Apollo program. But astronauts weren’t the most excitable folks.
You’re the first person to land on the moon and you still speak in clipped sentences. I know, that was their training, but it sounded as if the most exciting experience imaginable was just another day at the office. (Now we know that Armstrong and Aldrin where white-knuckling it, landing on fumes over the Sea of Tranquility – more’s the reason they should’ve been screaming and high-fiving like moonshiners who’ve eluded the cops).
Star Trek, which I watched faithfully from age eight in its original incarnation, communicated the thrill that had been largely airbrushed out of the real space race.
And the excitable, adrenaline-charged Captain Kirk – as exuberantly portrayed by the scenery-devouring William Shatner – was a surrogate for anybody whose own historic words on stepping onto the lunar surface would be, “Holy crap! I’m on the moon!”
James Tiberius Kirk was thrilled to be commanding the Enterprise, seeking out strange, new worlds. More than once, in the course of three seasons, he ended up teary-eyed about his ship. He loved the alien women (really loved them). He loved antagonizing Klingons. He loved lecturing alien cultures about what they were doing wrong (invariably after talking the supercomputer that was keeping them comfortable into killing itself).
He loved presiding over Spock and McCoy’s bickering. I think he secretly enjoyed giving Scotty an anxiety attack by ordering more power even when the chief engineer would claim the engines “dinna have it!”
Space was exciting, and no one communicated that better than Capt. Kirk.
Flash ahead 17 years, and my job took me to the Paramount set of the as-yet-unaired Star Trek: The Next Generation. Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner were hilarious guides. Michael Dorn made jokes about Klingons eating live chickens. I got to sit in the captain’s chair and play with the transporter controls.
Only Patrick Stewart didn’t seem like he was having a good time. (He would do a complete reversal over the years, happily embracing his role as geek icon).
And that was reflected on Star Trek: The Next Generation when it aired in 1987. Capt. Picard seemed in a permanent bad mood (if you downed a shot for each time he yelled, “Shut up, Wesley!” you’d be under the table).
The stiffness of that initial season gradually eased up, but the stick up Capt. Picard’s butt took a long time for the writers to surgically remove. Eventually, he would be allowed to smile, usually patronizingly. Still, a slow burn seemed to be his default mode. He was a natural, sober-sided target for the omnipotent prankster Q.
In a way, though, he was of a piece with a Federation that had largely moved beyond wonder and into dullness of familiarity. Until the Borg was added as an ultimate threat, the fate of the Federation was rarely in doubt on The Next Generation. Facilitating negotiations between squabbling planets, antics on the Holodeck and existential questions about whether a hologram or an android could be sentient – The Next Generation was about ideas.
And Picard was nothing if not an ideas man, a maker of executive decisions in a thoroughly mapped-out Alpha Quadrant. Damn, even the Klingons were allies on that show.
By contrast, the original Star Trek was usually about a first-time contact with something dangerous, with an impulsive, larger-than-life emissary leading the charge and scoping the females.
It was, indeed, an exciting time to be in space.
Email Jim
Steve says... Picard gave us a thinking man’s leader
Swagger. Confidence. A way with the ladies. The conviction to sacrifice almost anything – including his beloved starship – to win the day.
I understand the appeal of Capt. James T. Kirk. He’s the bad boy that women are drawn to. But Picard? He’s the man they want to marry. The man they build a life with, eventually forgetting the ill-advised dalliances of their youth. And I’m OK with that.
Capt. Jean-Luc Picard – logical, intelligent, deeply moral – might not be the guy you’d want to hang out with for a night of drinking. And a middle-aged, balding, Shakespeare-loving captain with an English accent was a tough sell when Star Trek: The Next Generation went into production, with creator and executive producer Gene Roddenberry resisting the idea until the 11th hour.
But Picard could be the guy you’d meet at a party and end up having a mind-blowing conversation with, even if he wasn’t encouraging you to go talk to the green-skinned hottie in the corner. The guy you’d still be sharing stories with, instead of telling stories about.
Each was a man of his time. Kirk was exploring strange new worlds on the final frontier. By the time Picard straightened his tunic and sat in the captain’s chair, it was a century later. Starfleet had changed. The galaxy had changed. A Neanderthal like Kirk might never have been given command of a starship. But Picard? He was the captain the 24th century needed.
As for Kirk’s much-vaunted success with the ladies, both human and otherwise, I asked my Patrick Stewart-obsessed female friend what makes Picard so appealing. “Picard is a gentleman,” she said, followed by the statement that Jean-Luc has a bigger, shall we say, photon torpedo than Kirk. While I have no idea how or where she came by that information, I am prepared to take it as gospel.
I also asked none other than Capt. Kirk himself – Canadian national treasure William Shatner – what he might be able to say in Picard’s favour, during a recent chat in advance of both captains appearing at Fan Expo Canada in Toronto. I explained the nature of this feature, telling him I had drawn the Picard side of the debate. “I feel so badly for you,” Shatner responded.
Fine, but is there anything he could say in defence of Picard?
“He was a very nice, thoughtful individual,” said Shatner. I replied that that sounded like a backhanded compliment. “Well, I don't know why you would think that!” Shatner said, wholly unconvincingly.
I get it, Picard wasn’t the charismatic action hero that Kirk was. But he had his share of derring-do, made plenty of difficult decisions (including also sacrificing his ship) and he ultimately resisted the freakin’ Borg, the Star Trek universe’s most powerful villains. Had Kirk been assimilated, the Borg would’ve consumed every inhabited galaxy under Kirk’s hot-headed guidance.
Picard was, as Shatner points out, thoughtful. The original Star Trek series is an artifact of its era, but like any good sci-fi, it reflected the issues of time, dressing them up in alien makeup to make them more palatable. Star Trek: The Next Generation continued that legacy, but gave us a thinking man’s captain to go along with the issues it probed.
Long live Kirk, the man who will always be associated with Star Trek, the USS Enterprise and five year missions. But if you’re asking me to cast a vote in favour of Picard as the Federation’s best captain, I say, ‘Make it so.’
Email Steve
William Shatner as Captain James T. Kirk and Sir Patrick Stewart as Captain Jean-Luc Picard. (Courtesy)

'Star Trek': Kirk vs. Picard: Who is the ultimate captain? | TV | Entertainment
 
SLM
#2
Sisko.

 
captain morgan
+1
#3
How is this even an issue? Obviously, the answer is Kirk.

The real question is: who would win a fight between Kirk, James Bond (Sean Connery) and The Terminator?

... It's a tough call
 
Tonington
+1
#4
Janeway

 
SLM
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

How is this even an issue? Obviously, the answer is Kirk.

The real question is: who would win a fight between Kirk, James Bond (Sean Connery) and The Terminator?

... It's a tough call

Hmmm, let's see. Well, Kirk always leads a fight with his chin....so I think The Terminator would make short work of him. Connery's Bond may perplex The Terminator with his Scottish brogue, potentially allowing him to the opportunity to plant the microscopic explosive designed by Q and make a last minute get away.

All bets are off if Spock shows up though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Janeway

Oh no you didn't !
 
Tecumsehsbones
#6
Jack Aubrey.
 
captain morgan
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Hmmm, let's see. Well, Kirk always leads a fight with his chin....so I think The Terminator would make short work of him. Connery's Bond may perplex The Terminator with his Scottish brogue, potentially allowing him to the opportunity to plant the microscopic explosive designed by Q and make a last minute get away.

I dunno... Kirk has fought all kinds of aliens and had sex with a green chick - that's gotta count for something.

On the other hand, Bond has his gadgets and generally speaking, kicks the crap outta all that face-off against him.

Terminator?... He's been KO'd a number of times now

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

All bets are off if Spock shows up though.

The smart play is to use Spock as a decoy and sacrifice him in order to get the upper hand
 
SLM
+1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I dunno... Kirk has fought all kinds of aliens and had sex with a green chick - that's gotta count for something.

You'd think so but terminators can do that whole liquid metal thing, which is a whole different level of kink!

Quote:

On the other hand, Bond has his gadgets and generally speaking, kicks the crap outta all that face-off against him.

Plus he does it all in a tux, how classy is that?

Quote:

Terminator?... He's been KO'd a number of times now

True, by Batman most recently too.

Quote:

The smart play is to use Spock as a decoy and sacrifice him in order to get the upper hand

There would be green blood everywhere!

Unless Spock just confuses the hell out of him and causes him to auto-self-destruct....could happen.
 
#juan
#9
For me Star Trek was such an improvement over earlier Buck Rodgers type space operas that had special effects budgets of maybe a hundred dollars. Some of the the next generation episodes must have had huge special effects money. It seems Gene Rodenberry spent some money on the original Enterprise bridge set and that is where a big part of the shows were shot. I don't know if Picard could have worked on the original Star Trek or if he would have wanted to..
 
spaminator
#10
the best captain is: captain john 'I appreciate any advice' harriman.

 
Walter
#11
I prefer 5 of 9.
Last edited by Walter; Aug 23rd, 2014 at 11:16 AM..
 
Tecumsehsbones
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

For me Star Trek was such an improvement over earlier Buck Rodgers type space operas that had special effects budgets of maybe a hundred dollars. Some of the the next generation episodes must have had huge special effects money. It seems Gene Rodenberry spent some money on the original Enterprise bridge set and that is where a big part of the shows were shot. I don't know if Picard could have worked on the original Star Trek or if he would have wanted to..

If you want to see Star Trek done right, read Robert Sawyer's Starplex.
 
B00Mer
+1
#13
What a question, Canada vs Blackleaf..No I mean UK.. Kirk wins. Hands down.
 
Praxius
+1
#14
Well I understand the way some think Picard was less action packed and used his logic and reasoning more than physical responses... TNG focused more on those parts of Picard.


But let's not discount Picard just yet.


This is a character who used to be just like Kirk when he was younger, to the point of getting into a bar fight with some Nausicaans, put up a good fight while being out numbered but getting a knife in the heart in the end.

This is the same character who was captured by the Borg, turned into a Borg, used as a puppet by them and used his knowledge to wipe out countless people, then with the help of his crew, escaped the Borg, destroyed the Cube and later went on to fight them off the Enterprise E, shooting them up with a Tommy Gun, blasting them off the deflector dish with Worf, eventually killing the Borg Queen with Data while swinging through skin corroding gases.

The same character who helped Worf get back his honor, who fought Klingon assassins from the house of Duras.

The same character who single-handedly thwarted terrorists on his ship who wanted to make a WMD from the warp core resources.... Then fk'n killed them all like a boss.

The same character who took on a clone of himself who was of the worst traits, who also had a superior ship, superior technology and superior weaponry.... And eventually.... Yup... Killed him like a boss by ramming his ship into the other, boarding the other ship and then getting into hand to hand combat with his younger clone and skewering his azz with a fk'n pipe.

The same character who was captured by Cardassians and tortured for an extended period of time in order to break him and prove how weak humans were compared to Cardassians.

THERE WERE FOUR LIGHTS B*TCH!!!


The same character who had to save his ship from de-evolving and fight off a gigantic acid spitting mutant Worf while also turning into a pygmy marmoset.

The same guy who invented the Picard Maneuver and saved his crew from a surprise attack.

The same character who has had so many Mind-F*cks, PTSD incidents and saved countless lives over the years at the expense of his physical body and mind, that any other normal person would have been tossed into an institution long ago.


How many other people do you know who would laugh while getting a blade shoved in their chest?

Yes, Picard is a gentleman and uses his logic and reason to diffuse a situation.... But you do not want to fuk with him.
Last edited by Praxius; Aug 23rd, 2014 at 11:32 AM..
 
SLM
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Well I understand the way some think Picard was less action packed and used his logic and reasoning more than physical responses... TNG focused more on those parts of Picard.


But let's not discount Picard just yet.


This is a character who used to be just like Kirk when he was younger, to the point of getting into a bar fight with some Nausicaans, put up a good fight while being out numbered but getting a knife in the heart in the end.

This is the same character who was captured by the Borg, turned into a Borg, used as a puppet by them and used his knowledge to wipe out countless people, then with the help of his crew, escaped the Borg, destroyed the Cube and later went on to fight them off the Enterprise E, shooting them up with a Tommy Gun, blasting them off the deflector dish with Worf, eventually killing the Borg Queen with Data while swinging through skin corroding gases.

The same character who helped Worf get back his honor, who fought Klingon assassins from the house of Duras.

The same character who single-handedly thwarted terrorists on his ship who wanted to make a WMD from the warp core resources.... Then fk'n killed them all like a boss.

The same character who took on a clone of himself who was of the worst traits, who also had a superior ship, superior technology and superior weaponry.... And eventually.... Yup... Killed him like a boss.

The same character who was captured by Cardassians and tortured for an extended period of time in order to break him and prove how weak humans were compared to Cardassians.

THERE WERE FOUR LIGHTS B*TCH!!!


The same character who had to save his ship from de-evolving and fight off a gigantic acid spitting mutant Worf while also turning into a pygmy marmoset.

The same guy who invented the Picard Maneuver and saved his crew from a surprise attack.

The same character who has had so many Mind-F*cks, PTSD incidents and saved countless lives over the years at the expense of his physical body and mind, that any other normal person would have been tossed into an institution long ago.


How many other people do you know who would laugh while getting a blade shoved in their chest?

Praxius, I don't know what's sadder. That you could give such a detailed analysis of Jean-Luc Picard.......or that I actually remember everything you're talking about.
 
Praxius
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Praxius, I don't know what's sadder. That you could give such a detailed analysis of Jean-Luc Picard.......or that I actually remember everything you're talking about.


what's sad is that I didn't have to Google any of it.
 
Sons of Liberty
#17
Seven of Nine

http://www.sci-fi-london.com/sites/d...lodeck_600.jpg
 
Praxius
#18
I will have to say that I like Picard a lot, but my favorite Captain is Sisko.

He was kind of right between Kirk and Picard. 75% by the book, 25% bent rules..... That and he fought pretty much everybody, the Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, DS9 was my fav series.... TNG a close second.
 
SLM
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

I will have to say that I like Picard a lot, but my favorite Captain is Sisko.


He was kind of right between Kirk and Picard. 75% by the book, 25% bent rules..... That and he fought pretty much everybody, the Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, DS9 was my fav series.... TNG a close second.

I've recently been rewatching on Netflix. I have to admit, TNG is looking a little cheesy (FX wise) but DS9 has held up pretty well.
 
petros
#20
You*****you for Captain!
 
Ludlow
#21
I vote for Captain Jack. From the Billy Joel tune.
 
B00Mer
#22
Chris Pine isn't bad as the New Captain Kirk

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFUZ10Wmbw
 
talloola
#23
nothing ever replaces the original, so for me its captain kirk, although i liked picard too.

even picard, when he was interviewed, was a big fan of kirk, and always admired him, as the original.

without the first one, there wouldn't a second, or third ------
 
WLDB
#24
I really like Picard but am going with Kirk. Even though I was born in the late 80s and was named after a TNG character, the original was the first series I got into and really enjoyed. I can still watch the original series (and its movies) far more easily than most TNG episodes.

Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Chris Pine isn't bad as the New Captain Kirk

Star Trek (2009) Official Trailer - Chris Pine, Eric Bana, Zoe Saldana Movie HD - YouTube

Meh, he's ok. The guy they have playing McCoy is spot on.

Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

I will have to say that I like Picard a lot, but my favorite Captain is Sisko.

Same here. Between Kirk and Picard I go with Kirk, but between all five of them I go with Sisko. DS9 is my favourite series.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

I've recently been rewatching on Netflix. I have to admit, TNG is looking a little cheesy (FX wise) but DS9 has held up pretty well.

More than effects wise. The issues they tackle from season 4 onwards are still very relevant. Its surprising that they were doing that stuff before 9/11.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

Janeway

eww. She was pretty whiney and hypocritical when it came to their 'values.' I enjoy Voyager, but not her character.
 
Ron in Regina
+4
#25  Top Rated Post
For me, it's a toss up between these two captains:



or

 
MHz
#26
Next question, Who was the 'strongest enemy'?
 
GreenFish66
#27



Who is the Ultimate Captain: James T. Kirk or Jean-Luc Picard?





It takes the Ultimate Captain to Command the Ultimate Starship.


And therefore;


Both Captain James T. Kirk and Picard are the Ultimate Captains!


---------------------------------------------


I could never chose between them.



Last edited by GreenFish66; Aug 24th, 2014 at 02:22 AM..
 
GreenFish66
#28
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkO4NIqAMss - Patrick Stewart; Ice Bucket Challenge.

Classy.
Last edited by GreenFish66; Aug 24th, 2014 at 11:47 AM..
 
Blackleaf
+1
#29




 
SLM
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

For me, it's a toss up between these two captains:

I think we should nominate our own Captain Morgan because, upon reflextion.....

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

How is this even an issue? Obviously, the answer is Kirk.

The real question is: who would win a fight between Kirk, James Bond (Sean Connery) and The Terminator?

... It's a tough call

....I realize he's long been plotting not only a takeover of the Federation but of the British Secret Service as well as Skynet.

And that's damned impressive.