Afghanistan`s Dirty Little Secret


JBeee
#1
Joel Brinkley
San Francisco Chronicle August 29, 2010

Western forces fighting in southern Afghanistan had a problem. Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."



All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery. Her report, " Pashtun Sexuality," startled not even one Afghan. But Western forces were shocked - and repulsed.

For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers.

Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover.

Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

"Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."
Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south. The Pashtun are Afghanistan's most important tribe. For centuries, the nation's leaders have been Pashtun.

President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz. Afraid of retribution, both declined to be identified and would not be more specific for publication.

As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

He added, "I didn't see Karzai with anyone. He was in his palace most of the time."

He, too, declined to be identified.

In Kandahar, population about 500,000, and other towns, dance parties are a popular, often weekly, pastime. Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home. A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male rape."

So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?

Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law . Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet. Otherwise she is covered, head to ankle.

"How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," 29-year-old Mohammed Daud told reporters. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said.

When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.

Addressing the loathsome mistreatment of Afghan women remains a primary goal for coalition governments, as it should be.

But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial rape over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.

"There's no issue more horrifying and more deserving of our attention than this," Cardinalli said. "I'm continually haunted by what I saw."

As one boy, in tow of a man he called "my lord," told the Reuters reporter: "Once I grow up, I will be an owner, and I will have my own boys."

 
lone wolf
#2
Interesting change of tack....
 
CDNBear
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Joel Brinkley
San Francisco Chronicle August 29, 2010

Are you advocating for the proliferation bacha?
 
JBeee
#4
"So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth?".....

Something in common perhaps?


Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Are you advocating for the proliferation bacha?

 
CDNBear
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

"So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth?".....

Something in common perhaps?

Well you didn't answer the question, so I'll take it you advocate for it.

Since it has been a long standing part of your position, that we shouldn't be meddling in their culture.

Right?

I mean you've said so many times, we shouldn't be there trying to westernize them.

Now the UN and NATO seem to be taking your advice and suddenly you have a problem with that?

What gives?

Are you just one of those keyboard banging hypocrites that has to hate something, for without something to hate, you become empty and a feeling of nothingness swells within?
 
JBeee
+1
#6  Top Rated Post
I`m only presenting the facts. If you have a problem knowing now, what NATO is defending, then tuff-titty.


Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Well you didn't answer the question, so I'll take it you advocate for it.

Since it has been a long standing part of your position, that we shouldn't be meddling in their culture.

Right?

I mean you've said so many times, we shouldn't be there trying to westernize them.

Now the UN and NATO seem to be taking your advice and suddenly you have a problem with that?

What gives?

Are you just one of those keyboard banging hypocrites that has to hate something, for without something to hate, you become empty and a feeling of nothingness swells within?

 
CDNBear
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

I`m only presenting the facts. If you have a problem knowing now, what NATO is defending, then tuff-titty.

I've known about bacha since before NATO went into Afghanistan. It's not like it's been a huge secret.

I don't have a "problem" with anything, at least not on the scale you do.

I'm not impressed about NATO and the UN turning a blind eye to it. Although I can understand the tactical reasons for doing so. That still doesn't sit well with my ethos. I don't condone this type of behavior as you do though.

You were upset that they tried to stop the abuse of women. You were upset when they tried to get girls into schools.

Now that NATO and the UN have taken a page right out of your play book, and stopped meddling, what's your problem?

I'm shocked that you would advocate for pedophilia though.
 
JBeee
+1
#8
Tis the first I`ve heard of this behaviour as common practice amongst our friends and allies in Afghanistan and even more schocking, NATO aware, yet keeping it secret and defending those practicing pedophilia.

And yet again this afternoon we`ll be parading another dead Canadian soldier through the streets who gave his life on thier behalf.

*shudder*

ps....you sound angry that I posted this article CD.


Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I've known about bacha since before NATO went into Afghanistan. It's not like it's been a huge secret.

I don't have a "problem" with anything, at least not on the scale you do.

I'm not impressed about NATO and the UN turning a blind eye to it. Although I can understand the tactical reasons for doing so. That still doesn't sit well with my ethos. I don't condone this type of behavior as you do though.

You were upset that they tried to stop the abuse of women. You were upset when they tried to get girls into schools.

Now that NATO and the UN have taken a page right out of your play book, and stopped meddling, what's your problem?

I'm shocked that you would advocate for pedophilia though.

 
karrie
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Tis the first I`ve heard of this behaviour as common practice amongst our friends and allies in Afghanistan and even more schocking, NATO aware, yet keeping it secret and defending those practicing pedophilia.

And yet again this afternoon we`ll be parading another dead Canadian soldier through the streets who gave his life on thier behalf.

*shudder*

ps....you sound angry that I posted this article CD.

I saw a program on tv months ago about the dancing boys of Afghanistan. I don't think anyone's been keeping it secret very well if they were keeping it secret.
 
Praxius
#10
I can't say I ever followed in great detail the social structures in Afghanistan, but it doesn't seem so far off from Christian/Catholic leaders molesting young boys, etc. since they're not allowed to marry or have families.... it's pretty much the same mentality.

Women are off limits, so they work around this by screwing little boys.

Pretty sick.... one thing that caught my eye was this:

Quote:

Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said.

When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.



So women having a menstrual cycle and having blood come out of their hoo-has a couple of days per month is "Unclean"...... but shoving your penis in some kid's ass full of sh*t isn't??

Sorry to be blunt, but how fk'n stupid can you get?
 
JBeee
#11
Apparently NATO and the West in general have no problem with this otherwise where is the outcry?


Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

I can't say I ever followed in great detail the social structures in Afghanistan, but it doesn't seem so far off from Christian/Catholic leaders molesting young boys, etc. since they're not allowed to marry or have families.... it's pretty much the same mentality.

Women are off limits, so they work around this by screwing little boys.

Pretty sick.... one thing that caught my eye was this:



So women having a menstrual cycle and having blood come out of their hoo-has a couple of days per month is "Unclean"...... but shoving your penis in some kid's ass full of sh*t isn't??

Sorry to be blunt, but how fk'n stupid can you get?
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[/COLOR]

 
Praxius
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Apparently NATO and the West in general have no problem with this otherwise where is the outcry?

Considering this is the first I've been told about this, and most here know that I frequent a number of online news sources..... obviously it's not brought to main stream attention enough to cause any outcry.
 
JBeee
#13
I see. A dirty little secret conveniently swept under the carpet.

I wonder how the troops/dupes feel about fighting for and defending these atrocities?


Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Considering this is the first I've been told about this, and most here know that I frequent a number of online news sources..... obviously it's not brought to main stream attention enough to cause any outcry.

 
JBeee
#14
FRONTLINE: the dancing boys of afghanistan | PBS

Apparently the Taliban put a stop to the behaviour when in power but with US and NATO`s help, the current installed puppet government has resurrected the practice.






Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I saw a program on tv months ago about the dancing boys of Afghanistan. I don't think anyone's been keeping it secret very well if they were keeping it secret.

 
karrie
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

FRONTLINE: the dancing boys of afghanistan | PBS

Apparently the Taliban put a stop to the behaviour when in power but with US and NATO`s help, the current installed puppet government has resurrected the practice.

I'm confused what kind of answer you're after in regards to it. You seem to support the maintenance of the social atmosphere that has bred this issue... you decry the notion of Afghani women being rescued so that they can, how did you put it, flash their teeth(?) like North American women. You don't want NATO or anyone over there attempting to install a stable government. Where's YOUR outcry over it?
 
Johnnny
#16
Im pretty sure Jbee just copy and pastes these threads here to get a rise out of the men who frequent the forum here... He takes an opposing view to see you so angry
 
JBeee
#17
Hey...they can do what they dam well want since it`s thier culture. Covering up the girls from head to toe and raping the boys (tho the latter I`m just now learning).
The issue I`m having is the West`s condemning one practice and condoning another by putting a blind-eye to the practice (raping the boys).

Seems quite hypocritical to me.


Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I'm confused what kind of answer you're after in regards to it. You seem to support the maintenance of the social atmosphere that has bred this issue... you decry the notion of Afghani women being rescued so that they can, how did you put it, flash their teeth(?) like North American women. You don't want NATO or anyone over there attempting to install a stable government. Where's YOUR outcry over it?

....and you`re opinion Johnny, on NATO`s putting a blind-eye to the practice..in essence condoning it is?
Or will you scurry off with tail between legs (hi CD) and steer clear of this topic?


Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

Im pretty sure Jbee just copy and pastes these threads here to get a rise out of the men who frequent the forum here... He takes an opposing view to see you so angry

 
karrie
#18
You do get that many westerners want simply to see human rights and fair government go in, right? To sit back and attempt to address all the individual travesties occurring... frick JBeee.... it would take forever.
 
JBeee
#19
Hmmm...you mean have the ability to pick and choose which travesty suits us best? The Taliban hiding thier women`s teeth and ankles and current US installed Afghani gov. raping the boys?
Apparently the Western media are content with hiding those atrocities that question our involvment there thus prolonging the `war on terror`.

Again, it seems quite hypocritical.


Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

You do get that many westerners want simply to see human rights and fair government go in, right? To sit back and attempt to address all the individual travesties occurring... frick JBeee.... it would take forever.

 
lone wolf
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Hmmm...you mean have the ability to pick and choose which travesty suits us best?

Seems to be a general theme.... Maybe if some folks sat in mineral oil they could avoid pesky little willnots...
 
karrie
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Hmmm...you mean have the ability to pick and choose which travesty suits us best? The Taliban hiding thier women`s teeth and ankles and current US installed Afghani gov. raping the boys?
Apparently the Western media are content with hiding those atrocities that question our involvment there thus prolonging the `war on terror`.

Again, it seems quite hypocritical.

See JBeee.... it doesn't make me question our involvement. I'm not like you, willing to say that we should go back to suppressing women to keep boys from being victimized. I say move forward to where they're both protected. Finding a patch of mold doesn't mean you put the stained carpet back down and pretend that's the way it should be. It means you need to do more work than you expected.
 
Bcool
#22
From the:
Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam,Aug. 5, 1990

University of Minnesota Human Rights Library


ARTICLE 7:
(a) As of the moment of birth, every child has rights due from the parents, the society and the state to be accorded proper nursing, education and material, hygienic and moral care. Both the fetus and the mother must be safeguarded and accorded special care.

ARTICLE 11:
(a) Human beings are born free, and no one has the right to enslave, humiliate, oppress or exploit them, and there can be no subjugation but to Allah the Almighty.

The Declaration also includes a number of other articles that are incompatible with slavery, although "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari'ah".

Since slavery is permitted by Islamic law, Muslim countries have used secular law to ban it. Some countries outlawed slavery only comparatively recently:
  • Qatar in 1952
  • Yemen and Saudi Arabia in 1962
  • Mauritania in 1980 - However, modern day slavery is still a common practice in this country. According to some estimates, up to 600,000 Mauritanians, or 20% of the population, are still enslaved. Large offshore oil deposits were discovered there in 2001. (Here we go again folks!! - The French claim first dibs, it was part of French West Africa from 1920 after all....)
Modern industrialized countries did business with all three for long periods of time before slavery was supposedly outlawed; moral questions are always decided by economics which also decides domestic political decisions as well as any country's political stance regarding another country.

And since the Ottoman Empire ruled much of Southeastern Europe, Western Asia and North Africa from 1299 to 1923 it's somewhat surprising that its practises come as a surprise to you, JBee.
 
Goober
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

"So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth?".....

Something in common perhaps?

That implies that it would stop it NATO left - Wow - Lots of thinking went into that reply
 
JBeee
#24
Hi Goober. So tell me...how do YOU feel about our Canadian boys and girls defending (and dying for) a foreign gov. that embraces pedophilia?


Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

That implies that it would stop it NATO left - Wow - Lots of thinking went into that reply

 
Goober
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Hi Goober. So tell me...how do YOU feel about our Canadian boys and girls defending (and dying for) a foreign gov. that embraces pedophilia?

How do you fell about the Taliban that executes 7 year old children

How do you feel when a suicide bomber blows themselves up killing innocent civilians including children

How do you feel about the Taliban throwing acid in young girls faces to stop then from an education

How do you feel when the Taliban also ha children as sex toys -

How do you feel about the many atrocities commited by the Taliban

How do you feel knowing that more civilians are killed by the Taliban than NATO

But then again you do not care - You are blinded by hatred.
 
JBeee
#26
Terrible.

Now tell me...how do YOU feel about our Canadian boys and girls defending (and dying for) a foreign gov. that embraces pedophilia?

Or have you, too, scurried off, tail snugly tucked between your legs.


Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

How do you fell about the Taliban that executes 7 year old children

How do you feel when a suicide bomber blows themselves up killing innocent civilians including children

How do you feel about the Taliban throwing acid in young girls faces to stop then from an education

How do you feel when the Taliban also ha children as sex toys -

How do you feel about the many atrocities commited by the Taliban

How do you feel knowing that more civilians are killed by the Taliban than NATO

But then again you do not care - You are blinded by hatred.

 
Goober
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

Terrible.

Now tell me...how do YOU feel about our Canadian boys and girls defending (and dying for) a foreign gov. that embraces pedophilia?

Or have you, too, scurried off, tail snugly tucked between your legs.


The whole country is corrupt -

Now answer my questions - let us know where you stand - If this story came as a suprise to you it shows how poorly informed you are - It has been goinf on for many hundreds of years.

NATO Trooops cannot arrest persons unless they are suspected or known terrorists - Check the Rules of Engagement

Now pony up with your answers to my questions - Little grasshopper. I eagerly await you well thought out answers

As to scurrying - I do not scurry - I have over a number of years faced down a number on mean sons of bitxhes - but I do not run - hated that in the Army-

I do not scurry and I hate running and as an aside never know what we could talk about if we met face to face. I promise to be nice. .
 
JBeee
#28
I find typing any more than a phrase to you, to be a waste of time.


Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

The whole country is corrupt -

Now answer my questions - let us know where you stand - If this story came as a suprise to you it shows how poorly informed you are - It has been goinf on for many hundreds of years.

NATO Trooops cannot arrest persons unless they are suspected or known terrorists - Check the Rules of Engagement

Now pony up with your answers to my questions - Little grasshopper. I eagerly await you well thought out answers

As to scurrying - I do not scurry - I have over a number of years faced down a number on mean sons of bitxhes - but I do not run - hated that in the Army-

I do not scurry and I hate running and as an aside never know what we could talk about if we met face to face. I promise to be nice. .

 
Goober
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

I find typing any more than a phrase to you, to be a waste of time.

Is that because you have to think and justify your opinion. Did not realize that it was so tiring for you to think.
 
karrie
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by JBeee View Post

I find typing any more than a phrase to you, to be a waste of time.

I notice that while Goober has explained his stance, you continue to evade having to actually give an opinion despite several pointed questions by both him and me.

What do YOU want to see happen JBeee?
 

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