Blaming Holocaust on Polish wrong, irresponsible


china
#1
Voice of the Day
Blaming Holocaust on Polish wrong, irresponsible

January 9, 2009
I do not really know how to express how appalled I was to read the article "Middle East crisis reflects unworkable political solution" with its sickening claim about alleged Polish responsibility for the Holocaust.


I challenge you name a single historian who would support the idiotic claim that ethnic Poles killed more Jews than Germans. This is almost certainly based on the largely correct claims that in a few incidents, such as Jedwabne, ethnic Poles did murder Polish Jews rather than the Germans. Still, these incidents amount to a few thousand at most being murdered by the Poles. This can't be compared even to the tens of thousands killed by the Lithuanians, Rumanians and Ukrainians and it certainly can't be compared to the millions killed by the Germans.
The statement that Poland orchestrated the Holocaust is beyond belief. It was the Germans who planned and carried out the Holocaust.
The World Jewish Congress has stated that "Poland should not be blamed for the Holocaust; to blame here are the Nazis and their allies."
David Peleg, The Ambassador of Israel to Warsaw, Poland, further echoed these words when he said:
"
Quote:

We, being Jews and Israelis, with reject resolutely terminology such as 'Polish concentration camps.' These prejudicial and erroneous phrases represent primarily testimony about ignorance and lack of understanding of fundamental historical truth. Every thinking man knows that it was the Nazis who selected Poland as the central site for dreadful genocide of extermination of European Jews. On the Polish soil, the Germans built terrifying camps where they systematically murdered 4.5 million Jews (including 3 million Polish Jews) and other nationalities including thousands of Poles."
Are you aware that Poland was the only occupied country in Europe to have an organization, Zegota, to help the Jews?
Are you aware that a specially trained volunteer force of Christians entered the Warsaw Ghetto to fight alongside the Jews? Are you aware that on three occasions Polish Christians attacked the Germans in an attempt to break out the Jews during the Warsaw Ghetto rising?
Are you aware that Poland was the only country where the Germans found it necessary to issue the automatic death penalty for simply giving a Jew a glass of water? Are you aware not only was the person helping the Jew murdered but their families as well? Are you aware that failure to inform on a neighbor hiding Jews was punished by deportation to a concentration camp?
Are you aware Poland has more righteous (i.e. those who aided Jews during the Holocaust) than any other country? Are you aware that whole villages, e.g. Markowa, sometimes worked together to save Jews? Are you aware that Irena Sendler was up for a Nobel Peace Prize for what she did?
Are you aware Poland was only one of three occupied countries not to have a collaborated government? Are you aware that Poland, unlike most other countries, did not have a volunteer SS division?
Are you aware that Poland tried to publicize the deaths of Jews but the Western Allies (i.e., U.S. and U.K.) suppressed it? Are you aware that even the American Jewish Congress did not believe the Polish government about the Germans mass-murdering Jews? Are you aware Poland printed booklets and made radio broadcasts themselves trying to raise public awareness?
Are you aware Poland wanted to bomb the death camps but the Western Allies vetoed the idea? Are you aware Poland wanted to bomb the railway lines to the camps but the Western Allies vetoed the idea? Are you aware Poland suggested bombing German cities in reprisal? Are you aware that Poland suggested warning the Germans they would face war crime trials at the end of the war to hopefully deter the Germans (again vetoed by the U.S. and U.K.)?
I am not claiming there was no anti-Semitism in Poland, but Poland was not responsible for the Holocaust.
Please buy the brilliant DVD by the late Jagna Wright called "The Other Truth." As the Independent, a major U.K. newspaper, said about it, "the conventional view of Poland as a nation of anti-Semites is definitively challenged." If only you were aware of the truth.
Please delete this dire article immediately and apologize for the hurt done to a wronged nation. The Polish embassy, Polish organizations in the U.S. and members of the Polonia beyond the U.S. are being informed of this libelous claim.

 
Zzarchov
#2
technically it wasn't planned and orchestrated by germans, quite a bit of Austrians in the mix as well.
 
Walter
#3
Bloody Poles.
 
Johnnny
#4
Could you provide a link please
 
dancing-loon
#5
Here is a link ...

Hitler_Poland_Danzig_WW2
 
Zzarchov
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

Here is a link ...

Hitler_Poland_Danzig_WW2


You don't seriously believe that Nazi era propaganda?

International Jewry? Seriously? You don't think maybe the French wanted to not be squashed every 20 years? Maybe wanted some land since they actually took land?

Or the Brits wanted to maintain naval dominance?


Or the poles wanted their land back? Poland is known as the country on roller skates for a reason. Every time Slavic and Germanic nations fought, the winner would take Polish land, and give Poland land from the loser to make up for it.

Everything on that page is brainhurtingly wrong.

Seriously Loon, just because someone puts it on the internet (or on paper etc) doesn't make it real. Hitler wanted more room for Germanic peoples (Austrians and Germans) and that meant pushing other people out of their land and annexing any area that had ethnic german population. If Hitler had landed in Canada he'd have claimed kitchener.
 
Nuggler
#7
.....Stop trying to rewrite history.

The GERMANS invaded Poland as their FIRST STEP in what they hoped to be WORLD DOMINATION, built concentration camps there, and they were staffed by all manner of nationalities. BUT the Poles did not start the war, evolve the "final solution", nor attempt to carry it out.

If you were a Pole forced labour in a camp, and you were ordered to kill 300 people, you did it or you died. You died in the end anyway, once your service was no longer required.

Let's not go all through the "question the holocaust" thing again. History will still be the same.

Zzarchov's got it right when he says "Everything on that page is brainhurtingly wrong."

Anyone believing that crap has to be brain dead or motivationally challenged.
 
Zzarchov
#8
There is stuff in that link that has a passing resemblance to history. There were Ethnic germans attacked by Polish Lynch mobs..AFTER the invasion (including the event in question)

and after the war ethnic germans were persecuted in a horrible campaign of ethnic cleansing (And some of these communities had been there hundreds of years and were loyal soldiers on the allied side)

But those crimes (while still wrong) were in response to WWII, not the start of it. Thats just revisionist history to try and soften the evil that occurred.
 
Tyr
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

There is stuff in that link that has a passing resemblance to history. There were Ethnic germans attacked by Polish Lynch mobs..AFTER the invasion (including the event in question)

and after the war ethnic germans were persecuted in a horrible campaign of ethnic cleansing (And some of these communities had been there hundreds of years and were loyal soldiers on the allied side)

But those crimes (while still wrong) were in response to WWII, not the start of it. Thats just revisionist history to try and soften the evil that occurred.

The persecution of Jews is not unique to Germans prior to and during WWII. It's a historical reality. Russia, Poland, Austia-Hungary, France, etc all perseciuted Jews to some extent

Jewish Genocide is another matter altogether. Only the Nazi's put the resources and political will into the "final solution"
 
Scott Free
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Tyr View Post

The persecution of Jews is not unique to Germans prior to and during WWII. It's a historical reality. Russia, Poland, Austia-Hungary, France, etc all perseciuted Jews to some extent

Jewish Genocide is another matter altogether. Only the Nazi's put the resources and political will into the "final solution"

This is true, however, don't mistake this for meaning the other countries didn't know what Hitler was doing. They certainly did and raised objections only when it became a good propaganda tool.
 
china
#11
Johnny ,

Quote:

Could you provide a link please

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Voice of the Day

Blaming Holocaust on Polish wrong, irresponsible

January 9, 2009
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I do not really know how to express how appalled I was to read the article "Middle East crisis reflects unworkable political solution" with its sickening claim about alleged Polish responsibility for the Holocaust.



I challenge you name a single historian who would support the idiotic claim that ethnic Poles killed more Jews than Germans. This is almost certainly based on the largely correct claims that in a few incidents, such as Jedwabne, ethnic Poles did murder Polish Jews rather than the Germans. Still, these incidents amount to a few thousand at most being murdered by the Poles. This can't be compared even to the tens of thousands killed by the Lithuanians, Rumanians and Ukrainians and it certainly can't be compared to the millions killed by the Germans.
The statement that Poland orchestrated the Holocaust is beyond belief. It was the Germans who planned and carried out the Holocaust.
The World Jewish Congress has stated that "Poland should not be blamed for the Holocaust; to blame here are the Nazis and their allies."
David Peleg, The Ambassador of Israel to Warsaw, Poland, further echoed these words when he said:
"We, being Jews and Israelis, with reject resolutely terminology such as 'Polish concentration camps.' These prejudicial and erroneous phrases represent primarily testimony about ignorance and lack of understanding of fundamental historical truth. Every thinking man knows that it was the Nazis who selected Poland as the central site for dreadful genocide of extermination of European Jews. On the Polish soil, the Germans built terrifying camps where they systematically murdered 4.5 million Jews (including 3 million Polish Jews) and other nationalities including thousands of Poles."
Are you aware that Poland was the only occupied country in Europe to have an organization, Zegota, to help the Jews?
Are you aware that a specially trained volunteer force of Christians entered the Warsaw Ghetto to fight alongside the Jews? Are you aware that on three occasions Polish Christians attacked the Germans in an attempt to break out the Jews during the Warsaw Ghetto rising?
Are you aware that Poland was the only country where the Germans found it necessary to issue the automatic death penalty for simply giving a Jew a glass of water? Are you aware not only was the person helping the Jew murdered but their families as well? Are you aware that failure to inform on a neighbor hiding Jews was punished by deportation to a concentration camp?
Are you aware Poland has more righteous (i.e. those who aided Jews during the Holocaust) than any other country? Are you aware that whole villages, e.g. Markowa, sometimes worked together to save Jews? Are you aware that Irena Sendler was up for a Nobel Peace Prize for what she did?
Are you aware Poland was only one of three occupied countries not to have a collaborated government? Are you aware that Poland, unlike most other countries, did not have a volunteer SS division?
Are you aware that Poland tried to publicize the deaths of Jews but the Western Allies (i.e., U.S. and U.K.) suppressed it? Are you aware that even the American Jewish Congress did not believe the Polish government about the Germans mass-murdering Jews? Are you aware Poland printed booklets and made radio broadcasts themselves trying to raise public awareness?
Are you aware Poland wanted to bomb the death camps but the Western Allies vetoed the idea? Are you aware Poland wanted to bomb the railway lines to the camps but the Western Allies vetoed the idea? Are you aware Poland suggested bombing German cities in reprisal? Are you aware that Poland suggested warning the Germans they would face war crime trials at the end of the war to hopefully deter the Germans (again vetoed by the U.S. and U.K.)?
I am not claiming there was no anti-Semitism in Poland, but Poland was not responsible for the Holocaust.
Please buy the brilliant DVD by the late Jagna Wright called "The Other Truth." As the Independent, a major U.K. newspaper, said about it, "the conventional view of Poland as a nation of anti-Semites is definitively challenged." If only you were aware of the truth.
Please delete this dire article immediately and apologize for the hurt done to a wronged nation. The Polish embassy, Polish organizations in the U.S. and members of the Polonia beyond the U.S. are being informed of this libelous claim.
 
dancing-loon
#12
Another little piece of history the Germans got blamed for:

Historian threatens to reveal Polish atrocities against Jews if tried for slander - Haaretz - Israel News
 
Zzarchov
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by dancing-loon View Post

Another little piece of history the Germans got blamed for:

Historian threatens to reveal Polish atrocities against Jews if tried for slander - Haaretz - Israel News

No...Germany never got blamed for that incident at all. Thats specifically post war issues. I hate to break it to you D-L, but the Nazi's were long crushed by 1946.
 
einmensch
#14
Zz-the Jews committed those acts and you know it. It is not German propaganda.
You live on lies Zz --to you truth is the enemy.
 
Zzarchov
#15
The Jews committed what acts? The ones being blamed on Poles?

Man, you don't even have your own accusation straight. But don't worry, you can keep ranting about some global Jewish Conspiracy, I guess if they can run one without anyone stopping them that would make them the master race wouldn't it?

Funny how that logic never sticks to racists. Or there is the more logical thought that they are just people like anyone else and don't exist as some kind of hive mind.
 
china
#16



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Readers' Letters

Nazis responsible for deaths of Polish Jews

January 10, 2009
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I am often in agreement with Roger Ray on various issues, but I believe his column about the Middle East has some serious historical inaccuracies.



The majority of Polish Jews killed during the Holocaust did not die at the hands of their Christian countrymen. There were pogroms during and after WWII in Poland in which Polish Jews were murdered by their Christian neighbors, the worst being the massacre at Jedwabne. But the vast majority of Jewish Holocaust victims were killed by the Nazis, in extermination camps as well as by special action units and in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
As a Polish-American, I am not proud of the anti-Semitism that existed in Poland. I am proud of the fact that Poland has 6,066 persons (the most of any nation) recognized by Israel in the Righteous Among Nations - non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews. Germany, by contrast, has only 455. Concealing or aiding Jews in Poland was punishable by death for all household members, the harshest such penalty meted out by the Nazis in any occupied country.
The Nazis located extermination camps in Poland because that is where the largest concentration of European Jews lived, but the guards and auxiliaries were mostly Balts and Ukrainians, not Poles. To lump Poland in with Nazi Germany as having "orchestrated" the Holocaust is simply outrageous - Poland was a victim of the Nazi occupation. Poland lost 25 percent of its prewar population, 3 million Polish Jews and 3 million Catholic Poles.
Another historical inaccuracy was the statement that the United States and Britain stole land from the Palestinians to create Israel. The Zionist movement began in the late 19th century, and at the beginning of WWII, nearly 500,000 Jews lived in Palestine. The British tried to suppress further Jewish immigration to Palestine, resulting in guerrilla warfare. The British turned the matter over to the UN, which partitioned Palestine into Jewish and Arab sectors. The United States had no role in all of this, but was one of the first countries to recognize the state of Israel in 1948.
I would also disagree with the statement that the creation of Israel as a Jewish homeland was a "bad idea," but in the interest of space, I will defer that one to my Jewish friends, whom I am sure will also be writing a response to this inaccuracy-filled column.
Alan Zablocki, M.D. Springfield
 
einmensch
#17
The German invasion was Sep 1939, but it's important to understand that many of the outrages had preceded the German invasion. This was proved by the amount of decomposition of the bodies. Thus, these atrocities cannot be excused simply as reprisals for the German invasion (which would be wrong anyway). They included 19 year-old girls with their faces smashed, amputations, disembowelments, shot thru' the eye, death-trauma births, you name it. Poles had been merrily slaughtering anything or anybody German since at least as early as April 1939, with smaller incidents stretching back to the close of WW I -- you haven't been told that by the Mass Media, or the fact that these atrocities were one of the main causes for the German invasion of Poland, something that was meant by the Germans to be a local solution to a local problem. Germany had already done the "right thing" by protesting in writing to the League of Nations literally dozens of times. The League of Nations did nothing, yet the problem had to be These are Bolsheviks-who become Holocaust victims and then semites in Israel
Take your pick
bolsheviks jewish - Live Search
but just a bit of cut and paste to inform

"The Bolshevik Revolution," declared a leading American Jewish community paper in 1920, "was largely the product of Jewish thinking, Jewish discontent, Jewish effort to reconstruct."
David R. Francis, United States ambassador in Russia, warned in a January 1918 dispatch to Washington: "The Bolshevik leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a worldwide social revolution."
The Netherlands' ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, made much the same point a few months later: "Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things."

The Siberian novelist Valentin Rasputin wrote in 1990: "I think today the Jews here in Russia should feel responsible for the sin of having carried out the revolution and for the shape it took. They should feel responsible for the terror--for the terror that existed during the revolution and especially after the revolution...their guilt is great. They perpetrated the relentless campaign against the peasant class whose land was brutally expropriated by the state and who themselves were ruthlessly murdered."
 
Zzarchov
#18
They were not preceeding the invasion.

The German Army themselves at the time reported they were reprisals. Get off your revisionist soapbox already. God, you are so full of outright bullshoi and lies that are contradicted even by other neonazis.
 
einmensch
#19
No war crime here.

Poland: Workers find WWII mass grave of Germans - Yahoo! News
 
Tyr
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

This is true, however, don't mistake this for meaning the other countries didn't know what Hitler was doing. They certainly did and raised objections only when it became a good propaganda tool.

..or did like the Swiss and the Vatican and helped with Nazi banking
 
Tyr
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov View Post

technically it wasn't planned and orchestrated by germans, quite a bit of Austrians in the mix as well.

...and Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, the list goes on and on
 
Tyr
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Tyr View Post

...and Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, the list goes on and on

It's surprising that after so much history has been document that the "average joe" still thinks it was Germany and Japan as the belligerants of WWII

There were


Bulgarians
Yugoslavians
Croatian
Romanian
Italian
Hungarian
Slovakian
Ukranian
and Spanish mercenaries
 

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