Russia's first gay pride parade turns violent


Cosmo
#1
Quote:

Russia's first gay pride parade turns violent

HENRY MEYER
Associated Press

Moscow — Gay rights activists were pummelled by right-wing protesters and detained by police Saturday, preventing them from putting on a display of gay pride in defiance of a city ban.

Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov said in a radio interview Friday gay parades “may be acceptable for some kind of progressive, in some sense, countries in the West, but it is absolutely unacceptable for Moscow, for Russia.”

“As long as I am mayor, we will not permit these parades,” he said.

Police detained the rally's main organizer, Nikolai Alexeyev, as he attempted to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, a symbol of Russia's victory against fascism in World War II, just outside the Kremlin wall.

“We are conducting a peaceful action. We want to show that we have the same rights as other citizens,” Mr. Alexeyev had told a news conference a few hours before the rally was to have begun.

But police closed the entrance to the garden where the tomb is located, and the first half-dozen activists arrived carrying flowers were set upon by about 100 religious and nationalist extremists who kicked and punched them.

“Moscow is not Sodom!” they shouted. Women wearing head scarves held up religious icons while men in Cossack white sheepskin hats and black-and-red tunics stood by.

“We were expecting this. It's the authorities that are allowing this to happen,” said a woman holding a limp red carnation who identified herself only as Anna, a lesbian.

Riot police rushed in to separate the assailants from the activists but detained Mr. Alexeyev “as the ringleader,” said British gay rights activist Peter Tatchell, who was in the group.

Police said later they had detained 120 anti-gay protesters and gay activists.

“Both the authorities and the fascists had the same objective — to suppress the Moscow gay pride,” Mr. Tatchell said.

Saturday was the 13th anniversary of the decriminalization of homosexuality in Russia, and a number of foreign activists travelled to Moscow this week for an unprecedented forum on gay rights in Russia and the Russian capital's first gay and lesbian pride parade.

By the time of the start of the rally, more than 100 youths were standing in the square opposite the mayor's office, chanting: “Glory to Russia!”

Several trampled on a rainbow-coloured ribbon — a symbol of gay rights — into the ground.

“This is a perverts' parade,” said one protester holding an icon of the Madonna. “This is filth, which is forbidden by God. We have to cleanse the world of this filth,” said the woman who gave only her first name, Irina.

A member of Germany's Bundestag, Volker Beck, was giving an interview before TV cameras when about 20 nationalist youths surrounded him and pummelled him, bloodying his nose. Volker Eichler, a gay activist from Berlin who witnessed the beating, said police did not intervene.

City authorities cited the potential for violence as the primary reason for banning the parade. But they also voiced disapproval of the very idea of gay rights. Russian religious leaders, Orthodox Christian, Muslim and Jewish, have all vocally opposed the parade.

The issue has split Moscow's gay community, many of whom say that Russian society is still too conservative and a parade would only provoke more violence from skinheads and radical groups.

Gay rights activists estimate that 5 to 8 per cent of Russia's 143 million people are gay and lesbian.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home
http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/searc...uery=http&rc=1

Wonder if Bush still has that bomb that used to be aimed in their direction? War mongerer he is, maybe we can convince him to use it?? Maybe ending the cold war wasn't such a good idea.

(Thanks Canucklehead for pointing this story out to me and starting my day off in an ass kicking mood! )
 
mabudon
#2
I thought they liked "bears" in that country??

And wasn't the main "selling point" of the whole red menace thing that the USSR was an ENTIRE NATION OF GODLESS COMMIES???
That's just weird....

Seriously tho, just a kinda sad story- hopefully we don't get the same kind of thing happeneing here when Harper re-opens "the 'debate'"

BTW Cosmo your signature is f'ing hilarious, one can only hope it works out that way
 
Semperfi_dani
#3
Are you kidding me...Bush use a bomb on Russia on this issue...he's probably sending a congratulatory wire as we speak.

Its seems to me that there is a selective view of defending democracy, and what constitutes democracy in the views of the worlds super powers. This is something that all the worlds governments should be speaking out against and condemming..yet they are oddly silent. Why is that you suppose?
 
Colpy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Semperfi_dani

Are you kidding me...Bush use a bomb on Russia on this issue...he's probably sending a congratulatory wire as we speak.

Its seems to me that there is a selective view of defending democracy, and what constitutes democracy in the views of the worlds super powers. This is something that all the worlds governments should be speaking out against and condemming..yet they are oddly silent. Why is that you suppose?

Now that is a little unfair.

There are lots of issues on which Mr. Bush can reasonably be taken to task. I have never, however, seen any indication of hatred of gays from Bush, and certainly no indication he would support violence against them.
 
Semperfi_dani
#5
Ok..fair enough. It was a bit unfair. He would certainly not advocate the use of violence. But he's not speaking out against the use of violence by the government of Russia in this instance. Bush is supposed to be a strong proponent of democracy, yet, he has been quiet on this issue. Surely the use of government miltary and police to STOP AND PREVENT this parade from even occuring in the first place warrants a response?
 
Kreskin
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote: Originally Posted by Semperfi_dani

Are you kidding me...Bush use a bomb on Russia on this issue...he's probably sending a congratulatory wire as we speak.

Its seems to me that there is a selective view of defending democracy, and what constitutes democracy in the views of the worlds super powers. This is something that all the worlds governments should be speaking out against and condemming..yet they are oddly silent. Why is that you suppose?

Now that is a little unfair.

There are lots of issues on which Mr. Bush can reasonably be taken to task. I have never, however, seen any indication of hatred of gays from Bush, and certainly no indication he would support violence against them.

Same-sex anything has been under attack since Bush came in. He might personally feel different but he's the monkey and the religious right is the monkey grinder today in Washington.
 
Finder
#7
Russian Democracy is like a oxeymoron... Right now the only thing Russia is defeanding is it's Kleptocracy and capitalism.
 
FiveParadox
#8
I think that this situation is quite sad, to be honest.

The idea that some nations on this world continue to be so hostile toward segments of their populations on the basis of sexual orientation is quite disturbing, indeed, and I hope that the masses on the world stage are going to start to understand, sooner rather than later, that there is no reason to anchor such hostility, in particular in one's nation's institutions.

As for the comments made in terms of His Excellency the Honourable George Bush , the President of the United States of America , I don't think that he would condone the use of force to "quelch" gays and lesbians. He is an anti-same-sex advocate, and his administration takes on (in my opinion) a rather anti-same-sex relationship stance entirely, so anything that he would say in defense of gays and lesbians would seem, in my opinion, insincere.
 
Jersay
#9
Bush is antisame sex. And I don't think he would promote violence against same-sex people, I don't think he would cry over it too.
 
LittleRunningGag
#10
Quote:

“This is filth, which is forbidden by God. We have to cleanse the world of this filth,”

She is talking about organized religion isn't she?
 
Kreskin
#11
When was the last time GWB provided a hint of support to the gay/lesbian community? Usually a national leader of any first-world nation would at least stand up and call off politically expedient attack dogs, but he won't even go there.
 
Vereya
#12
Actually, I quite agree with what Luzhkov said about it being absolutely unacceptable to hold gay parades in Russia. He didn't mean any discrimination, he just knew what he was talking about, he knew the negative reaction it will excite. In the times of the Soviet Union homosexuality used to be a criminal offense, a person could easily get to prison if he or she got found out. It is not so any longer, but still it would take a lot of time to change the mentality of most people, to change their attitude towards homosexuality. Besides, though the Soviet Union used to be the country of godless commies, nowadays the church, I mean the official orthodox church of Russia, is coming back in a real big way, and they are being very aggressive. And homosexuality is something they cannot put up with. So the mayor of Moscow was right, it will take some more time before a gay parade in Moscow will not excite too much controversy. It is just a matter of time needed to change the people's mentality.
 
Sheen
#13
This news did not mention that gays already tried to do the same some weeks ago and they saw what could happen. So I do not understand why they called "coleagues" from outside ex-USSR to participate in something that they call "parade" (whereas it was prohibited and they were warned about a possible result) and then blame that they were bitten.
 
FiveParadox
#14
I would think, Sheen , that the point of this matter is that it should not be a prohibited state to be a gay or a lesbian; to that end, one's rights and freedoms in a nation should not be restricted due to the forementioned.
 
Cosmo
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Vereya

Actually, I quite agree with what Luzhkov said about it being absolutely unacceptable to hold gay parades in Russia. He didn't mean any discrimination, he just knew what he was talking about, he knew the negative reaction it will excite. In the times of the Soviet Union homosexuality used to be a criminal offense, a person could easily get to prison if he or she got found out. It is not so any longer, but still it would take a lot of time to change the mentality of most people, to change their attitude towards homosexuality. Besides, though the Soviet Union used to be the country of godless commies, nowadays the church, I mean the official orthodox church of Russia, is coming back in a real big way, and they are being very aggressive. And homosexuality is something they cannot put up with. So the mayor of Moscow was right, it will take some more time before a gay parade in Moscow will not excite too much controversy. It is just a matter of time needed to change the people's mentality.

Gedoutta here! You serious???????

It's a good thing that people got beat up? It's the 21st century for gawdsakes ... it's time people got with the program. Russia is supposed to be progressing. This is progress???


Vereya, I'm a lesbian. Seeing this kind of barbaric crap is highly offensive to me. Anyone supporting it best wear their asbestos suit while I'm around. I don't sit back and let comments like yours pass. I disagree with what you say, and although I support your right to say it you can expect opposition.
 
Vereya
#16
Cosmo, I didn't mean to offend you, and I definitely didn't mean to say that I am anti-gay or anit-lesbian. If that was the message you got from my post, it was probably my fault, because I didn't make myself quite clear. And I do not remember writing that it is a good thing when people get beat up.
What I was trying to say, is that the degree of tolerance and acceptance of homosexual community in Russia right now is about on the same level it was in the Western countries, among the average population some twenty years ago. Right now, in the States, in Canada, in Europe the attitude towards the gay and lesbian comminities is not in the least negative. But tell me one thing - did it change overnight? Or did it, maybe, take a little time to change? Some effort? Or did the attitude change by itself?
What I was trying to say, is that in order to make people accept something that is very different from what they consider normal, you have to put in a lot of effort. A gay parade is something normal, let's say, in San-Fransisco, where the public attitude towards this issue has already been shaped in the right way. But a gay parade in Moscow is bound to be a catastrophe, because there's been nothing done so far to promote a positive attitude towards homosexuality. In Russia we have a proverb - don't put the cart before the horse. It is exactly the case. The first thing is to change the general attitude towards your cause (what is not being done by any representative of the gay community in Russia), and only afterwards, when you have done it, you can celebrate your cause. Can you imagine a gay parade in the States some thirty years ago? I doubt that it would've been successful.
So, can I take my asbestos suit off now?
 
Cosmo
#17
awww ... you looked so cute in the asbestos suit, though!

Vereya, I have zero tolerance for anyone going after people (especially physically) for who they are, be it skin colour, beliefs or orientation.

I do agree that 40 years ago we were facing the same thing here in the West ... but that is nearly half a century ago. Is it okay to accept that Russia is half a century behind and say, "oh, well they are just learning"? Not to me.

I apologize for coming on like a grizzly bear about it, but prejudice upsets me. I can no more change my orientation than I can my eye colour and the behaviour exhibited in Russia is no better than what Hitler did to people. If they were going after an ethnic group instead of homosexuals, the world would be outraged. But because it's gays, it's understandable? Not to me. And not to anyone who has ever studied gay history.

You may want to have a peek at the Stonewall Riots of 1969 ... we've already fought and won that battle. We shouldn't have to do it again. Anywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

My comments were not just for you, Vereya, but for everyone who harbours the slightest tolerance of or understand for that kind of action. I'm glad you spoke what many people are too politically correct to voice because it gave me a chance to refute it. Most people think it but don't say it ... I respect you for being willing to do more than just play the PC game and say nothing.

I don't often speak out on things like this at the forum, but there are a couple of issues that I simply cannot be quiet about.

So ya, cute as you are in the asbestos suit, you can go back to your jammies and pink fuzzy slippers when we discuss this.
 
Jay
#18
Quote:

Moscow — Gay rights activists were pummelled by right-wing protesters and detained by police Saturday, preventing them from putting on a display of gay pride in defiance of a city ban.


Right wing protesters in Russia? Sure, whatever....
 
Toro
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Sheen

This news did not mention that gays already tried to do the same some weeks ago and they saw what could happen. So I do not understand why they called "coleagues" from outside ex-USSR to participate in something that they call "parade" (whereas it was prohibited and they were warned about a possible result) and then blame that they were bitten.

====
http://www.about-flowers-bouquets.com

"Don't you uppity n!ggers come marching around here! You know what happened to those commie-loving n!ggers when they went marching in Selma the other week. We'd hate to see a bunch a dead n!ggers hanging from the trees around here."

Some brain-dead redneck in the South, circa 1960.
 
Cosmo
#20
Exactly, Toro ... I'm offended by that, as anyone with a shred of decency should be. But it's fine for the Russians because they are just learning? I don't buy it.
 
Jay
#21
It's not fine to beat people up, at least not in Canada it isn't.

I must admit though, that I don't understand the "gay parades"...It is one thing to be gay, but to dedicate parades to your sexual orientation is something I don't understand. I can appreciate if there is a city parade or something and the "Rainbow Club" enters a float or two. Maybe someone here can enlighten me a bit?
 
missile
#22
JMO,but the Gay Parades are nothing more than another form of advertising.
 
mabudon
#23
In a way, I imagine, "Pride Parades" ARE indeed a form of advertising, but in my view a necessary one- as Cosmo points out, there are still plenty of people who think certain ways and just don't say it- granted, there will always be this type of person, but the more folks like myself who do not want to hear it and will actively dispute bigoted statements from people, the better

I have nothing against displays such as "pride Parades" but I hope that some day in the distant future they can go the wayof suffrage marches, a sort of "remember when people were so intolerant that they gay people actually had to assert their right to exist" but until that time comes, the parades are an important re-affirmation of what is still a much maligned reality for many people

And Jay- do you seriously think North America has the monopoly on right-wing types?? Do you still believe the ancient CRAP about the russians being godless commies?? (if you do, there's some stuff to disprove THAT notion at least in the very article at the beginning of this topic)
maybe I am beginning to understand your apparent socio-political myopia
 
Jay
#24
I wouldn't worry about my "myopia" if I were you.
 
tracy
#25
I find it sad that people still care about this. As long as it isn't compulsory, why should anyone care a lick about homosexuality? I live in the nicest neighbourhood in my city, which of course means it is largely a gay neighbourhood, and I have never had a problem with not being accepted because I'm straight. I don't see why gay people should be any less welcome among heteros.
 
mabudon
#26
Jay- LOL I actuallyhave to make a doctors appointment for a prescription, thanks for the reminder

And to Tracy( and I guess potential others) I was not saying anything negative and hope I did not come across that way- I fully look forward to a time when everywhere is like where you live, where folks don't "give a lick" about such personal things as the sexuality of others, which is about as important to me as what my neighbors eat, or watch on television

I can be really hard to understand sometimes, but in my defence it all makes sense to me at least, I really hope I was not misunderstood
 
Sheen
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

I would think, Sheen , that the point of this matter is that it should not be a prohibited state to be a gay or a lesbian; to that end, one's rights and freedoms in a nation should not be restricted due to the forementioned.

Ok, a little example first. I know gay who was married before, then got divorced, then become a gay. I wonder, is he a real gay? Or this is only a defense from being tortured again? So let us try to find out a root of this problem. My understanding that increasing number of gays and lesbians is connected to increased number of divorces sometimes ago. A child grown with one parent, usually with the mother, has no example of an opposite sex behavior. As a result no normal relationships are possible when that child became mature. They try to find others who have the same live view. Yes, everybody has a right to get divorced. But is it a big social achievement? Is it kind of freedom that worth to fight for?
 
Toro
#28
Well Sheen

You would be wrong.
 
FiveParadox
#29
Sheen , I have both a mother and a father, who continue to be very much in love. And nonetheless, despite having these role models of the "traditional" family, I turned out to be gay. Neither of them have ever been divorced, and yet nonetheless your theory appears inapplicable to my situation.
 
Cosmo
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Jay

It's not fine to beat people up, at least not in Canada it isn't.

I must admit though, that I don't understand the "gay parades"...It is one thing to be gay, but to dedicate parades to your sexual orientation is something I don't understand. I can appreciate if there is a city parade or something and the "Rainbow Club" enters a float or two. Maybe someone here can enlighten me a bit?

Why do Veterans have a parade on Remembrance Day? Why is there a Christmas Parade? Why is there a parade for Calgary Stampede or Edmonton Klondike days? /shrug It's all the same stuff. Celebration.

Gays have come a long way in the past half century and have a great deal to be delighted about. I love Pride Week!! There is a sense of community, of celebration, a sense of belonging to a unique clan.

Granted, Jay, it is a bit like having a parade for people with green eyes, but if they had been vilified for a long time and that oppression was lifted, it would be cause to strike up the techno band and have some fun.

I agree, Mabudon, that it's sad that we are in a position to have to be glad of freedoms gained. It would be far more preferable to have gay folks accepted all along, but it ain't so. I will be glad when Pride Week is redundant from a social perspective, but I'll always enjoy it from a cultural view.

Sheen ... I almost didn't dignify your comments with a reply, but decided I may be able to offer a bit of education. I, too, was married when I was 19. Being gay isn't always the easiest thing in the world. I figured that if I got hitched, all those feelings would just go away. Doesn't happen like that.

Perhaps homosexuality does have an affect on the divorce rate, but if it does, the affect is minor. The vast majority of people who get divorced hook up with the same gender they left. /shrug
 

Similar Threads

47
Canadian aboriginal land dispute turns violent
by Canadian with a hyphen | Oct 20th, 2006
2