NDP-CP(Tory) Alliance?


Finder
#1
Personally as some of you may know I'm an NDP supporter who likes a few of the PC's populist platforms on democratic reform... thats about it.

Both the Layton and Harper have said they would work with any party (somewhat). What do you guys think of a possible Tory-NDP alliance. Is it possible? Would the Tory's ally with the Liberals first to form a national unity government in the likely hood of none of the parties getting enough seats to govern and there's no clear winner.

I'd like to think the NDP and Tory's could work together on many electoral reforms and perhaps some minor issues. I'm not sure if this would work but if you look at Germany the Conservatives and Social Democrats pretty much formed a government there together. The Social Democrats could have held government without them if they had gone with the Green party (there normal ally) and the Left party (former communists and the former hard left of the SDP) which would have been closer to there idea's then the Conservatives. But they chose the Cons because of the Left Parties history. Could the Tory's and the NDP do the same?

Personally, Not sure how long this would last if it happend. Perhaps a year, or until Harper tried to pass far right economic and social policy. BUT what could also happen is the NDP could bring the Con's closer to the PC side of the party. Alot of different things could happen.

Or is this just an idea for the Twilight zone? lol
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#2
Personally, I think that the NDP and the Conservative Party are too fundamentally different to keep any sort of "coalition" going for more than a month or so. As soon as Stephen Harper would attempt to "re-amend" the definition of marriage, Mr. Layton would almost immediately, in my opinion, side with the Liberals to prevent the passage of a majority of Conservative policy.

I just don't think that, in Canada, a coalition between such a left-wing, and such a right-wing party, can last.
 
Finder
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

Personally, I think that the NDP and the Conservative Party are too fundamentally different to keep any sort of "coalition" going for more than a month or so. As soon as Stephen Harper would attempt to "re-amend" the definition of marriage, Mr. Layton would almost immediately, in my opinion, side with the Liberals to prevent the passage of a majority of Conservative policy.

I just don't think that, in Canada, a coalition between such a left-wing, and such a right-wing party, can last.


Yeah but if Layton and harper could agree to keep these issues off the planning boards for a year or two it could be possible. Perhaps this kind of thinking could only happen if a Red Tory got into power in the Conservative party.

Though on the other hand maybe we'd only need a few months and they'd come together to make election reforms knowing the coalition could only work for these issues and only to get these issues passed. Such as bringing in PR or Mixed, and senate reform of soem sort, and and few other procedural things. plus funding for cities and prov powers and so on. These things could take months to finish and after that... I'm not sure. I think it's still possible.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#4
I honestly think that if the parties in power were opposite to those in the Senate, there could be some conflict between the two Houses in terms of electoral reform; we could see reform bills bouncing back and forth between the Houses. lol, the pages for the next session better start doing those sit-up reps; they're going to be doing a lot of walking.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

Personally, I think that the NDP and the Conservative Party are too fundamentally different to keep any sort of "coalition" going for more than a month or so. As soon as Stephen Harper would attempt to "re-amend" the definition of marriage, Mr. Layton would almost immediately, in my opinion, side with the Liberals to prevent the passage of a majority of Conservative policy.

I just don't think that, in Canada, a coalition between such a left-wing, and such a right-wing party, can last.

Yes, but a vote on SSM would be a free vote, and not a matter of confidence. The government would not fall over it.
 
Finder
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

I honestly think that if the parties in power were opposite to those in the Senate, there could be some conflict between the two Houses in terms of electoral reform; we could see reform bills bouncing back and forth between the Houses. lol, the pages for the next session better start doing those sit-up reps; they're going to be doing a lot of walking.

I don't believe the Senate would have the real power to block any legislation without making themselves look very undemocratic and for sure would threaten there career's by pissing off alot of ppl thus making them a target in the next election to remove completely (as the NDP would like to do) or democratic reform (as the Tory's would like to do) and they would have a manafate from the people if this was to happen.

hmmmm isn't this a different thread! lmao.


Anyhow I think your right, I doubt the NDP and Tory's could stay together very long. It would take too much comprimise and intelligence which most likely would be missing with someone who has already watered down his beliefs (HARPER) and I don't see him water them down any further.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#7
Well, I think that there are some circumstances in which the Senate should use its prerogatives. For example, if the Conservave Party were to pass any legislation related to the "re-redefinition" of marriage, I would be a strong proponent of major amendments to the bill in the Senate, or the defeat of the bill altogether. But then again, that isn't particularly realistic with the lack of a "mandate" of the Senate, I suppose.
 
Finder
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox

Well, I think that there are some circumstances in which the Senate should use its prerogatives. For example, if the Conservave Party were to pass any legislation related to the "re-redefinition" of marriage, I would be a strong proponent of major amendments to the bill in the Senate, or the defeat of the bill altogether. But then again, that isn't particularly realistic with the lack of a "mandate" of the Senate, I suppose.

hmmmm,
True... on Same sex marrage it may not hurt them as much because they don't have a manadate, but the Conservatives could still push such an issue in the election and have an anti senate platform, rather then a reformed senate platform they currently have.

But for sure on issues such as national unity, bills on budgits and other big issue bills if the Senate tried to stop it or get in the way without a mandate fromt he people and the people seem to agree with the lower house in general it would be very bad for the senate.

Man I wish this election wasn't so long. I usually like elections but even I have my limits. I can already feel by the start of jan I'll be tired.
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#9
Well, agreed, a Senate block on a financial bill would be extremely controversial; but then again, aren't there measures in place to prevent the Senate from blocking any bill "recommended by the Governor General" (basically anything financial)? I believe I read something to that effect in a book on Parliamentary procedure, or perhaps on the Parliament Web site itself; that the Senate may not hold a financial bill for more than a certain period of time, and that the House of Commons may overrule a Senate defeat of a bill for the appropriation of funds.

I may be completely wrong here though, I may have to go relocate my source on this.
 
Roy
#10
i would personaly like to see a Conservative minority win...and then the CPC would have to work with one of the other parties. I would like to see the conservatives and the socialists work together but I do agree that it might be a bit farfetched, but hey who really knows what is going to happen.

I think it is more reasonable to expect the CPC and the Liberals to work something out seeing as the parties are not as idelogicaly handicapped as the NDP-CPC duo.

I cant believe we are actually discussing the end of the liberal empire in canada....so happy
 
FiveParadox
Liberal
#11
Well, really, I would not be surprised to see the Liberals cling onto power for a fifth mandate, and I think it's probably the most likely result of the upcoming election. The 40th General Election will be the real battle; I assume that our 40th Parliament will either see the Liberals outright defeated, or the Liberals regain a majority. The next election, I believe, will be the true showdown, since this one is basically guaranteed to result in another minority.
 
Roy
#12
yea i agree with you Paradox that this election will most likely result in a minority gov't. I am just so happy that we are actualy entertaining the idea of the Liberals being defeated. I mean who would of thought in 2002 that the liberals would ever of been out of power especially with the highly anticipated Paul Martin set to take the reins of power. I think it is an act of god that this liberal party was actualy caught stealing taxpayer money and I have to say Paul Martin was much less than I expected.
 
Finder
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Roy

i would personaly like to see a Conservative minority win...and then the CPC would have to work with one of the other parties. I would like to see the conservatives and the socialists work together but I do agree that it might be a bit farfetched, but hey who really knows what is going to happen.

I think it is more reasonable to expect the CPC and the Liberals to work something out seeing as the parties are not as idelogicaly handicapped as the NDP-CPC duo.

I cant believe we are actually discussing the end of the liberal empire in canada....so happy

The New Democrats, are a social democratic party. You really should educate yourself. I don't go around calling the Conservative party a facscist party and I don't see the main stream members of the NDP doing so either. Though much of the loony left which you are trying to put the NDP into do call them facsists.

Dude educate yourself. The NDP/CCF are not a marxist party. They were birthed not from Marxist belief but British guilde socialism. The CCF was basicly founded by farmers and the religious left. I can't think of any founding members of the CCF as marxists as they were all against communism and violance of any kind. Tommy Douglas a founder of the NDP, was himself a Minster of the Baptist Church. The NDP if you bothered to read history and thus lose your ignorance of the NDP and propaganda from the far-right, you'd learn was made up of god fearing farmers, and some of the democratic labour movements.

So, please all I ask is to read up on your history from someone who doesn't have an agenda and read the facts about those things you don't understand. But I guess ignorance is bliss and I doubt you ever will.

I would never discount the NDP and the CPC working together since both parties, have a democratic history in Canada and I think both parties as long as moderates and calm heads rule the day can find enough common ground to run an honest government on common grounds untill ideological differences are forced to appear. If the Conservatives and the Social Democrats can work together in Germany why not Canada. Answer that simple question. If the Social Democrats could have worked with the Socialists and former communists and not have to work with the communists, and most rightists thought they would why would social democrats surprise all of the far right and work with the conservatives. Because there is enough common ground to work on.
 
Machjo
#14
My guess is the Conservatives would ally themselves with the Bloc before they would with the NDP (both the conservatives and the Bloc support more decentralization!

I could also see a Bloc NDP alliance toobut that's very theoretical sinse they couldn't even combined they woulnd't have neouhg seats to form a government.

So I suppose that, if the Conservatives did ever form a minority, the Bloc is the group with which they'd most likely ally themselves, with decentralization being the focus of policy for the next four years.
 
Finder
#15
First off any party which makes an alliance with the bloc will lose credibility as a federalist party. Yes the Bloc politically shares many things in common with the NDP as the bloc is considered to be a social democratic party. Also the Bloc shares a lot in common with the CPC leadership with the focus on regionalism. Either the NDP and the CPC know it would hurt either of them in the next election if they were to use bloc support to keep there government a live. If the CPC to use the bloc the West may not care but the east would the the CPC would just turn into the reform party again.

If the NDP were to use the bloc or help the bloc the NDP would lose a lot of support to the Liberal party.

I think both the NDP and the Bloc are starting to see they will need to find common ground. As the CPC may not have enough for a magority and the Liberals may lose too big to form a government even with the NDP.

Really this makes sence. NDP-CPC running a government would make for a progressive conservative government which the people want. The NDP would make sure the social programs stay in place, while the CPC's main focus would be that no new or over spending would happen. Followed by election reforms with both the Senate and the parliment this is a dream come true really for me. =-D I hope they do find there common ground and both the NDP and CPC come at this as moderates.


I might be a little overly hopeful still. lol
 

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