Hunt them all- More out there from other Wars that commited crimes against humanity.


Goober
#1
Hunt them all- More out there from other Wars that committed crimes / atrocities against humanity.

We need more countries to make the case, if International Law permits, to lay charges.
If the law does not permit countries this avenue, then change the law.

Give them no rest, never knowing when that tap on the shoulder will come.
Offer rewards for their capture.

And Life terms should be that, a sentence of lifetime imprisonment, till they die.
Problem is that African Leaders and others think they are being singled out.
So many refuse to cooperate.

Hitler’s policy let Dutch Nazi elude death in 1949 but now he is on trial for an execution 68 years ago | National Post

HAGEN — Germany put a 92-year-old former member of the Nazi Waffen SS on trial Monday on charges that he killed a Dutch resistance fighter in 1944.

Convicted of the death in the Netherlands in 1949, Dutch-born Siert Bruins had eluded extradition to his homeland because he had obtained German citizenship through a policy instituted by Adolf Hitler to confer citizenship on foreigners who served the Nazi military.

On Monday, Bruins entered the Hagen state courtroom using a walker, and appeared alert and attentive as the proceedings opened. Trial sessions are being limited to a maximum of three hours in deference to his age and health.

The trial comes amid a new phase of German Nazi-era investigations, with federal prosecutors this week expected to announce they are recommending the pursuit of possible charges against about 40 former Auschwitz guards.

The renewed probes of death camp guards come after the case of former Ohio autoworker John Demjanjuk, who died last year while appealing his 2011 conviction for accessory to murder after allegations he served in Sobibor.

His case established that death camp guards could be convicted as accessories to murder, even if there was no specific evidence of atrocities against them.

Bruins, however, had long been on the radar of German legal authorities and already served time in the 1980s for his role in the wartime slaying of two Dutch Jews.

Bruins was also already convicted and sentenced to death in absentia in the Netherlands in 1949 in a case that involved the killing of the resistance fighter. The sentence was later commuted to life in prison, but attempts to extradite him were unsuccessful because he had obtained German citizenship.

Ulrich Sander, spokesman for an organization representing the victims of Nazi crimes, told the dpa news agency that the decision to bring Bruins to trial again, even at his advanced age, was a good one.

“We must make it clear for the future that such crimes are always prosecuted, that murderers never get away,” he said.
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
gerryh
+10
#2  Top Rated Post
Somebody will have to explain this to me. Why is a member of the German armed forces during WWII being brought up on murder charges for killing a member of a resistance movement? Resistance member is equivalent to our present day terrorist, are they not? Non uniformed person fighting against an occupying force.
 
Goober
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Somebody will have to explain this to me. Why is a member of the German armed forces during WWII being brought up on murder charges for killing a member of a resistance movement? Resistance member is equivalent to our present day terrorist, are they not? Non uniformed person fighting against an occupying force.

There is a legal process involved prior to and if justified, execution.
Now how well did the Nazi's do at that?
He was also found guilty of murdering 2 Jews. In the article.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#4
Underground forces in WWII were considered part of the allied forces
In addition their assignments were issued by directors in England.
Besides any acts outside of Germany are fair game as Germany
engaged in aggressive war and should not have been in foreign
countries period.
Besides they fared better in the west as in Russia some of the Germans
were not even given a cemetery funeral they were left for the buzzards
on the great plains of the Eastern Front. Saw a war history feature on
that about a month ago.
 
Goober
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

Underground forces in WWII were considered part of the allied forces
In addition their assignments were issued by directors in England.
Besides any acts outside of Germany are fair game as Germany
engaged in aggressive war and should not have been in foreign
countries period.
Besides they fared better in the west as in Russia some of the Germans
were not even given a cemetery funeral they were left for the buzzards
on the great plains of the Eastern Front. Saw a war history feature on
that about a month ago.

Outside or inside of Germany is not relevant under the laws of war.
 
gerryh
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

There is a legal process involved prior to and if justified, execution.
Now how well did the Nazi's do at that?
He was also found guilty of murdering 2 Jews. In the article.


really? A legal process? Is there one now? Is it being followed by the present armed forces in Afghanistan? ALL the opposing belligerents in Afghanistan could be considered "resistance fighters".
 
Goober
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

really? A legal process? Is there one now? Is it being followed by the present armed forces in Afghanistan? ALL the opposing belligerents in Afghanistan could be considered "resistance fighters".

Nope.
 
gerryh
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Nope.


Nope.... nope what?

what is the difference between the dutch resistance, or the French resistance, or any other resistance fighters of WWII and those that are are fighting against the "allied" intrusion in Afghanistan?
 
Goober
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Nope.... nope what?

what is the difference between the dutch resistance, or the French resistance, or any other resistance fighters of WWII and those that are are fighting against the "allied" intrusion in Afghanistan?

Correct me if I am in error as I am sure you will, are they not required to be in uniform and identifiable?
Just added

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/...ions/index.jsp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war
Last edited by Goober; Sep 2nd, 2013 at 08:11 PM..
 
gerryh
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Correct me if I am in error as I am sure you will, are they not required to be in uniform and identifiable?
Just added

Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols - ICRC

Laws of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Who? Is who required to be in uniform and identifiable? The WWII resistance fighters, or the "resistance" fighters in Afghanistan?
 
Goober
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Who? Is who required to be in uniform and identifiable? The WWII resistance fighters, or the "resistance" fighters in Afghanistan?

Read these and get back to me OK, thanks Goober.

Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/...ions/index.jsp

Laws of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Tecumsehsbones
#12
Oh, dear.
 
Goober
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Oh, dear.

Yes?
 
gerryh
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Read these and get back to me OK, thanks Goober.

Geneva Conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.icrc.org/eng/war-and-law/...ions/index.jsp

Laws of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, in other words you can't answer my question and instead try to bury me in pages upon pages of mainly irrelevant crap hoping I will go away.

Make it simple goober, answer the question.
 
Goober
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

So, in other words you can't answer my question and instead try to bury me in pages upon pages of mainly irrelevant crap hoping I will go away.

Make it simple goober, answer the question.

Nope. Educate yourself, as we say in the Army, Not my part Ship. And I answered.
Now troll away.
 
gerryh
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Nope. Educate yourself, as we say in the Army, Not my part Ship. And I answered.
Now troll away.



Ok, from my understanding then, the former member of the SS should NOT be getting charged with anything. It is another example of kangaroo courts being set up for revenge only. If HE did something wrong by killing a member of the Dutch resistance, then every soldier that fought and killed someone in Afghanistan should also be charged with murder.

and BTW, asking for an explanation on your position is not trolling. Or is it trolling whenever anyone disagrees with you?
 
petros
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy View Post

Underground forces in WWII were considered part of the allied forces

No they weren't, there oodles who were out for themselves or Bolshevik wannabes.

I don't see any E. Germans going after ex Stazi, or Bulgarians seeking restitution from the Soviets. Even the Japs haven't apologized for what they did Canadian prisoners of war. They just shrug their shoulders and say "different culture, different time".

These Jews need to get a life.
 
taxslave
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Ok, from my understanding then, the former member of the SS should NOT be getting charged with anything. It is another example of kangaroo courts being set up for revenge only. If HE did something wrong by killing a member of the Dutch resistance, then every soldier that fought and killed someone in Afghanistan should also be charged with murder.

and BTW, asking for an explanation on your position is not trolling. Or is it trolling whenever anyone disagrees with you?

I can think of a few other wars that probably need to have the same standards applied.
 
Goober
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Ok, from my understanding then, the former member of the SS should NOT be getting charged with anything. It is another example of kangaroo courts being set up for revenge only. If HE did something wrong by killing a member of the Dutch resistance, then every soldier that fought and killed someone in Afghanistan should also be charged with murder.

and BTW, asking for an explanation on your position is not trolling. Or is it trolling whenever anyone disagrees with you?

Unlawful combatant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An unlawful combatant, illegal combatant or unprivileged combatant/belligerent is a civilian or military personnel who directly engages in armed conflict in violation of the laws of war. An unlawful combatant may be detained or prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action; subject of course to international treaties on justice and human rights such as everyones right to a fair trial.[1][2]

Every person in enemy hands must be either a prisoner of war and, as such, be covered by the Third Convention; or a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention. Furthermore, "There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law",[5] because in the opinion of the ICRC, "If civilians directly engage in hostilities, they are considered 'unlawful' or 'unprivileged' combatants or belligerents (the treaties of humanitarian law do not expressly contain these terms). They may be prosecuted under the domestic law of the detaining state for such action".[1][6]

The Geneva Conventions do not recognize any lawful status for combatants in conflicts not involving two or more nation states. A state in such a conflict is legally bound only to observe Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions and may ignore all the other Articles. But each one of them is completely free—and should be encouraged—to apply all or part of the remaining Articles of the Convention.[7]
 
gerryh
#20
Still comes down to the former SS member did nothing wrong. He summarily executed a "non combatant". The "non combatant" falls under the laws of the detaining country.
 
Goober
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Still comes down to the former SS member did nothing wrong. He summarily executed a "non combatant". The "non combatant" falls under the laws of the detaining country.

Using that logic then the genocide of Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies and others would also fall under that law.
 
WLDB
+3
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Outside or inside of Germany is not relevant under the laws of war.

In times of war the law falls silent. If the laws and diplomacy had worked there would not have been war. The whole concept of laws in war seems odd to me. If two powers at war are reasonable enough to agree to these things they should be reasonable enough to avoid war all together.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Still comes down to the former SS member did nothing wrong. He summarily executed a "non combatant". The "non combatant" falls under the laws of the detaining country.

Simply being in the SS would be a crime. They were treated differently from members of the Whermacht both during and after the war.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

I can think of a few other wars that probably need to have the same standards applied.

Nearly every war.
 
Goober
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

In times of war the law falls silent. If the laws and diplomacy had worked there would not have been war. The whole concept of laws in war seems odd to me. If two powers at war are reasonable enough to agree to these things they should be reasonable enough to avoid war all together.



Simply being in the SS would be a crime. They were treated differently from members of the Whermacht both during and after the war.

I can see your point but the Laws of War / Geneva Conventions do serve a purpose. Chemical weapons is an example.
Retaliation against a local population that were not involved in Partisan-Guerrilla attacks on that countries armed forces.
We saw during WW2 the Nazis used this tactic.

SS Medical Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Waffen SS were determined after the war to be illegal & criminal organization.
 
WLDB
+1
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

I can see your point but the Laws of War / Geneva Conventions do serve a purpose. Chemical weapons is an example.
Retaliation against a local population that were not involved in Partisan-Guerrilla attacks on that countries armed forces.
We saw during WW2 the Nazis used this tactic.

SS Medical Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Waffen SS were determined after the war to be illegal & criminal organization.

Oh Im fine with charging this guy and anyone guilty of committing these acts. I just find it odd to expect powers to follow all of these rules during war. Even the allies at times let the laws slide from time to time but did not charge any of their own people with war crimes. I don't like the idea of 'victors justice.' Both sides should be held accountable, not just the losers.

International law is also meaningless if no one is going to enforce them. If what is said about chemical weapons being used in Syria is true and the international community does nothing - then that law means nothing. Just as it meant nothing when Iraq and Iran were at war. No one was ever held accountable for those incidents.
 
Goober
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

Oh Im fine with charging this guy and anyone guilty of committing these acts. I just find it odd to expect powers to follow all of these rules during war. Even the allies at times let the laws slide from time to time but did not charge any of their own people with war crimes. I don't like the idea of 'victors justice.' Both sides should be held accountable, not just the losers.

International law is also meaningless if no one is going to enforce them. If what is said about chemical weapons being used in Syria is true and the international community does nothing - then that law means nothing. Just as it meant nothing when Iraq and Iran were at war. No one was ever held accountable for those incidents.

True- The Allies did indeed commit War Crimes.

Now Kenya is /may hold a vote to withdraw from the ICC due to their elected President and others having an ICC arrest warrant for crimes during the protests- killings in Kenya after an election.

Kenya's President.
Reputation of ICC On the Line in Case against Kenya President Kenyatta - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Kenya: Q&A on The ICC Trial of Kenya’s Deputy President | Human Rights Watch
The trial of Kenya’s deputy president, William Ruto, and his co-defendant, the radio broadcaster Joshua arap Sang, is scheduled to begin at the International Criminal Court (ICC) on September 10, 2013. A three-judge trial chamber sitting in The Hague will hear the case.

The men face crimes against humanity charges for their alleged roles in murders, deportation or forcible transfer of population, and persecution during Kenya’s 2007-2008 post-election violence. Ruto, who was a member of parliament at the time, will be the first senior Kenyan politician to stand trial for crimes committed during the violence.

“Kenya’s leaders broke their promises to hold national trials, which obliged the ICC to step in as a court of last resort,” said Elizabeth Evenson, senior international justice counsel at Human Rights Watch.


And my point is that there are plenty of War Criminals out there resting easy -
Indonesia is one. There is or will be a show where a reporter interviews those that committed mass murder.

Indonesian killings of 1965–66 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rwanda- Nope- Not who you think - Paul Kagame -

Kagame’s Mass Atrocities in Rwanda and the Congo | Global Research

Kagame criticized: Groups want Rwandan leader tried for war crimes | National Post

Paul Kagame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

emocratic Republic of the Congo
Four Presidents seated on chairs: Joseph Kabila of the DRC, Thabo Mbeki of South Africa, George W. Bush of the USA and Paul Kagame of Rwanda; the four nations' flags are behind them, and Bush appears to be talking
Kagame (right) with Congolese President Joseph Kabila (left) at a peace summit with Thabo Mbeki, and George W. Bush in 2002

The Second Congo War, which began in 1998, was still raging when Kagame assumed the presidency in 2000. Namibia, Angola, Zimbabwe, and Chad had committed troops to the Congolese government side,[121] while Rwanda, Uganda, and Burundi were supporting rebel groups.[228] The rebel group Rally for Congolese Democracy (RCD) had split in 1999 into two factions: the RCD-Goma, supported by Rwanda, and the RCD-Kisangani, which was allied to Uganda.[229] Uganda also supported the Movement for the Liberation of the Congo (MLC), a rebel group from the north.[229] All these rebel groups were at war with Kabila's government in Kinshasa, but were also increasingly hostile to each other.[229] Various peace meetings had been held, culminating in the July 1999 Lusaka Ceasefire Agreement which was signed by Kabila, Kagame and all the other foreign governments.[230] The rebel groups were not party to the agreement, however, and fighting continued.[230] The RPA continued to be heavily involved in the Congo War through 2000, fighting battles against the Ugandan army in Kisangani and against Kabila's army in Kasai and Katanga.[231][2
 
darkbeaver
#26
Wagging the holocaust eh Goober. When will Israeli war criminals pay for their crimes?
 
JLM
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Wagging the holocaust eh Goober. When will Israeli war criminals pay for their crimes?

Please provide the list of Israeli war criminals.
 
Goober
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Wagging the holocaust eh Goober. When will Israeli war criminals pay for their crimes?

Nope.
From the OP.

Hunt them all- More out there from other Wars that committed crimes / atrocities against humanity.

We need more countries to make the case, if International Law permits, to lay charges.
If the law does not permit countries this avenue, then change the law.

Give them no rest, never knowing when that tap on the shoulder will come.
Offer rewards for their capture.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Please provide the list of Israeli war criminals.

Oh there are Israeli War Criminals.
This fellow is dead but...........
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Belgium rules Sharon can be tried
 
darkbeaver
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Please provide the list of Israeli war criminals.

So in your mind a list of war crimes is required to prosecute the worlds leading exponent of murder and genocide. Israel is an alien occupation force and has been since the day it's foul feet touched the soil of free Palestine every breath since that day has been a crime of war. While you're considering that list you won't get keep in mind the tears shed over the end of that abominable collection of sewage won't fill a thimble.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Nope.
From the OP.

Hunt them all- More out there from other Wars that committed crimes / atrocities against humanity.

We need more countries to make the case, if International Law permits, to lay charges.
If the law does not permit countries this avenue, then change the law.

Give them no rest, never knowing when that tap on the shoulder will come.
Offer rewards for their capture.



Oh there are Israeli War Criminals.
This fellow is dead but...........
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Belgium rules Sharon can be tried

Oh how generous of you to offer a brain dead rotting psycopath to wheel before the magistrate. International law is a theory the west is very disinclined to adhere to seeing as how most of the elected would face the gallows not to mention the countless thousands of financiers, industrialists and educators. What you propose would bring down the western edifice in an afternoon. I'm afraid your idealizum will get you in trouble with that same crowd.
 
petros
#30
Hunt down the Kappos.