More the Marry in Bountiful, BC


Spade
#1
According to a CBC report, two leaders from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Bountiful, BC, were charged with bigamy.

Quote:
"Two rival leaders of a religious community in Bountiful, B.C., have been charged with practising polygamy.

The CBC has confirmed that Winston Blackmore and James Oler were charged on Tuesday for alleged offences that took place in May 2005 and November 2004.

More details are expected to be released Wednesday at a news conference scheduled for noon PT.

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."

It's about time!
 
Tyr
#2
Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."


um... er... EWWWWWWWWWW!!!

(I'm speechless!!!)
 
shadowshiv
#3
Sheesh. He could almost have a whole town's worth of family!
 
Spade
#4
Wally Oppal explained why he took the step of prosecuting this case, when so many crown attorneys had advised against prosecution in the past. Oppal declared that in his view bigamy is an infringement of women's rights - in particular the right to be defended against sexual harm. To Oppal, an appeal by the defendants on the basis of Freedom of Religion in the Charter, may well occur. But, it is up too the courts to decide what takes precedence.

To me, similar cases are questions not of Freedom of Religion but questions of the separation of church and state. Freedom of Religion should not trump the civil or criminal codes. Is murder, for example, a question of Religious Freedom?

The fact that this case did not arise in the past speaks ill of the bravery of our justice system to prosecute injustice.
 
earth_as_one
#5
I expect the polygamists will win their case. The law has no place in the bedrooms of consenting adults. These people have a right to decide how they want to live and the rest of us have no right to impose our version of morality on them. Also in this particualr case these people can claim charter protection related to Freedom of Religion.

We already have laws to protect children and adults from sexual exploitation or forced marriages. Those issues should not be a factor in this case, especially when the women are demanding the right to enter polygamous marriages. The current law is the infringement on a person's right to choose who they want to love.

Once the polygamists win their case, Canada will have to write new laws regarding marriage, divorce and child custody related to polygamous/polyandrous relationships.

If you find polygamous or polyandrous relationships unpalatable, then don't enter into one. That's free choice.

The current law prevents these people's free choice and that's a problem.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jan 7th, 2009 at 10:45 PM..
 
karrie
#6
Why on earth does our government keep trying to prosecute on something that should be the rights of consenting adults, rather than prosecuting on the real root of the problem, which is child marriage in these sorts of sects? They muddy the waters and confuse the issue. They needs to stop chasing 'polygamists' and start chasing 'sex offenders'.
 
VanIsle
#7
As I recall, the courts are looking at this in regard to the children that are involved. I don't remember all of the names that have given an opinion here.Whoever it was that said they will win the right to have multiple marriages is wrong. Spade, the law does trump religion both here and in most cases. I know people do "wrong" in the name of religion all the time but there is a difference. This man (men) take advantage of little girls who do what their parents make them do and all of it is disgusting. Dirty old men looking for a virgin. Makes you wonder if they ever made love to a woman or just raped them - with parental consent. Bountiful, BC is it's own sordid little community. I believe we discussed this at length on the other forums. Cliff, you are not here yet, but I believe they live in an area not too too far from you. Many women have had the luxury of escaping Bountiful and reporting it. Time and again there are stories in our papers about the horrors there. I watched a little of Wally Oppal at noon today on TV but there were people talking in the room and other music playing in the background so it was hard to hear much of what he said. I gathered the case is going to go before the SCOC but maybe I'm wrong there. I think there is also a "Bountiful" in Utah as well. There are Latter Day Saints that do not believe in this aspect of their faith and do not participate. They are no more happy with those who dwell in Bountiful then the rest of us are.
 
Scott Free
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Tyr View Post

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."


um... er... EWWWWWWWWWW!!!

(I'm speechless!!!)

In evolutionary terms that's extremely successful. I've heard it estimated that 1 in 100 Asians are a direct descendant of Genghis khan; probably the greatest champion of all time if procreating is a sport that is.
 
earth_as_one
#9
The issue here as karrie pointed out is polygamy, not child marriages or forced marriages. We already have laws regarding those issues. So let's not confuse what we are talking about.

Consenting adults who chose of their own free will to enter a polygamous or polyandrous relationship should have that right. This type of relationship is preferable, more just and honest than married men and women who have longterm affairs on the side. If everyone involved is cool with what's going on, then its no one else's business and certainly not the state's.

In some religions multiple wives are the norm if you can afford it. I would argue that a women is far better off in a loving caring polygamous relationship with a wealthy man she loves than in a abusive love/hate relationship with an unemployed deadbeat husband. Not all men deserve a women in their life.

I saw an interview, where not only was the first wife cool with her husband taking a second and third wife, she helped him pick out the third wife. Wife #1 and 3 work. Wife #2 loves children and stays at home. She takes care of all the children and runs the house. Its very efficient. The family is very wealthy and successful. Everyone seems happy. Why should the state interfere?

Polyandry is less common, but it also exists. Its possible it might work out in specific situations. Fraternal polyandry is a practical solution to the problem of inheritance and over-population in some areas of Tibet. The sons share the same wife and share the family plot generation after generation. Without polyandry, the family plot would become divided to the point where it could no longer sustain a family. Again everyone seems happy and it creates a stable family environment. So why mess with a system which has kept the peace for countless generations.

People who try to impose their morality on others are a pain in the ass. Why don't you mind your own business and stop trying to make other people miserable, because you have a problem with what makes them happy.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jan 8th, 2009 at 02:26 AM..
 
Scott Free
#10
I care little for the petty rulings of a government I abhor. For me the bigger issues are of more interest than what the tyranny of fools dictates I should and shouldn't do - just that they think they can stop me demonstrates their idiocy.
 
Cliffy
#11
I really don't understand why they are prosecuting polygamy. The issues here are far more complex and as far as I can tell, Oppal has bent to pressure from a lot of groups that have been after shutting down Bountiful for at least twenty years or more, that I've been aware of. I think they have been looking at child abuse and sex with underage girls but after decades of investigations they have not been able to come up with anything that will stick in court.

I have never been to Bountiful and I know that Mormons that I know call polygamists Black Mormons. Although I am concerned about the abuse of young girls and some of the reports of throwing young men out of the community because the old farts want all the young girls for themselves, but as far as polygamy goes, I have no opinion. I'm sure if it was women that had multiple husbands, women wouldn't be quite as upset about it.
 
talloola
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

The issue here as karrie pointed out is polygamy, not child marriages or forced marriages. We already have laws regarding those issues. So let's not confuse what we are talking about.

Consenting adults who chose of their own free will to enter a polygamous or polyandrous relationship should have that right. This type of relationship is preferable, more just and honest than married men and women who have longterm affairs on the side. If everyone involved is cool with what's going on, then its no one else's business and certainly not the state's.

In some religions multiple wives are the norm if you can afford it. I would argue that a women is far better off in a loving caring polygamous relationship with a wealthy man she loves than in a abusive love/hate relationship with an unemployed deadbeat husband. Not all men deserve a women in their life.

I saw an interview, where not only was the first wife cool with her husband taking a second and third wife, she helped him pick out the third wife. Wife #1 and 3 work. Wife #2 loves children and stays at home. She takes care of all the children and runs the house. Its very efficient. The family is very wealthy and successful. Everyone seems happy. Why should the state interfere?

Polyandry is less common, but it also exists. Its possible it might work out in specific situations. Fraternal polyandry is a practical solution to the problem of inheritance and over-population in some areas of Tibet. The sons share the same wife and share the family plot generation after generation. Without polyandry, the family plot would become divided to the point where it could no longer sustain a family. Again everyone seems happy and it creates a stable family environment. So why mess with a system which has kept the peace for countless generations.

People who try to impose their morality on others are a pain in the ass. Why don't you mind your own business and stop trying to make other people miserable, because you have a problem with what makes them happy.

Don't think anyone is concerned with adults who are happy, only with children
who are forced into marriage with men they have no say about, and are
brought up to be obedient to such arrangements, and too brain washed to
know how to free themselves, and eventually they think they are living a
life that they want, but they had no choice.
This is a country of "freedom', and those children are not allowed to make
free choices.
Some are forced to marry men who could be their fathers, or even grandfathers.
 
earth_as_one
#13
Then your problem is with forced marriages and child marriages, not polygamy.

The problems you describe are not unique to polygamy and can happen in monogomous marriages just as easily.

You are confusing different issues.

Polygamy which involves consenting adults of free will should be legal.

Forced marriages or child marriages which can happen in monogomous or polygamous marriages are already illegal in Canada.
 
VanIsle
#14
That is sick. Because some old fart wants a young virgin (child molestation in essence) and adds her to his harem, you say the problem is not with multiple marriage that he hides behind in the name of religion? You want to have polygamy legal? Go to some country where it is. This is Canada and the vast majority highly disagree and even you seem to know that multiple marriage is illegal. It may not be immoral to you but it sure is to me.
 
earth_as_one
#15
What are you talking about? Polygamy between consulting adults or child marriage? They are different issues. Polygamy is the issue here, try to stay on topic.

If a 50 year old man marries two 50 year old women, that would be polygamy. Do you have a problem this and why?

If a 50 year old man marries a 14 year old girl that would be child marriage and that's already illegal in Canada.

If the 50 year old man marries two 50 year old woman and a 14 year old girl, your problem appears to to be with the child marriage issue, not polygamy.
 
Scott Free
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

What are you talking about? Polygamy between consulting adults or child marriage? They are different issues. Polygamy is the issue here, try to stay on topic.

If a 50 year old man marries two 50 year old women, that would be polygamy. Do you have a problem this and why?

If a 50 year old man marries a 14 year old girl that would be child marriage and that's already illegal in Canada.

If the 50 year old man marries two 50 year old woman and a 14 year old girl, your problem appears to to be with the child marriage issue, not polygamy.

Exactly right.

And if the man can't marry two women then can he live with them both and is that common law? What happens if they go their separate ways?

Should the tyranny of fools outlaw living together more than two people to one time?

I watched a movie called The Invasion and thought it should have been called the Canada since the antagonist had the same utopia nanny state in mind it seems our elite are hell bent on cramming down our throats.
 
JLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Spade View Post

According to a CBC report, two leaders from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Bountiful, BC, were charged with bigamy.

Quote:
"Two rival leaders of a religious community in Bountiful, B.C., have been charged with practising polygamy.

The CBC has confirmed that Winston Blackmore and James Oler were charged on Tuesday for alleged offences that took place in May 2005 and November 2004.

More details are expected to be released Wednesday at a news conference scheduled for noon PT.

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."

It's about time!

I think it was actually polygamy, Spade, and about bloody time. It's ridiculous to have laws on the books that aren't being enforced and it's real bloody crock when the beliefs of religious wingnuts supercede the law. Glad Oppal finally grew a spine. THAT is one area where church and state should definitely be divided. I just wish the victims had a little more backbone, so they would testify against these assh*les.
 
JLM
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

Why on earth does our government keep trying to prosecute on something that should be the rights of consenting adults, rather than prosecuting on the real root of the problem, which is child marriage in these sorts of sects? They muddy the waters and confuse the issue. They needs to stop chasing 'polygamists' and start chasing 'sex offenders'.

I think they should be doing both, Karrie. Polygamy is definitely contrary to the law and there should be no problem prosecuting. I guess the real problem is what is defined as "children". In some jurisdictions marriage at age 14 is perfectly legal (we all know this guy is a child molester), but the way the law stands now the only practical way of getting the A-hole is by convicting him on the polygamy and then to handle the molestation, give him the maximum sentence allowed for polygamy.
 
JLM
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

I expect the polygamists will win their case. The law has no place in the bedrooms of consenting adults. These people have a right to decide how they want to live and the rest of us have no right to impose our version of morality on them. Also in this particualr case these people can claim charter protection related to Freedom of Religion.

We already have laws to protect children and adults from sexual exploitation or forced marriages. Those issues should not be a factor in this case, especially when the women are demanding the right to enter polygamous marriages. The current law is the infringement on a person's right to choose who they want to love.

Once the polygamists win their case, Canada will have to write new laws regarding marriage, divorce and child custody related to polygamous/polyandrous relationships.

If you find polygamous or polyandrous relationships unpalatable, then don't enter into one. That's free choice.

The current law prevents these people's free choice and that's a problem.

You're overlooking one minor detail- POLYGAMY IS AGAINST THE LAW. I couldn't care less if a guy wanted to "shack up" with 50 mature consenting women at the same time as long as they are self-supporting, but if one of those 50 is a child, I want the S.O.'B. out of commission.
 
karrie
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I think they should be doing both, Karrie. Polygamy is definitely contrary to the law and there should be no problem prosecuting. I guess the real problem is what is defined as "children". In some jurisdictions marriage at age 14 is perfectly legal (we all know this guy is a child molester), but the way the law stands now the only practical way of getting the A-hole is by convicting him on the polygamy and then to handle the molestation, give him the maximum sentence allowed for polygamy.

My point was JLM, that they're prosecuting them on a faulty premise that doesn't stand up in court. Marriage had been redefined in recent years, and if taken to the supreme court, it won't stand for long consenting adults shouldn't be allowed to marry whoever they want to, so long as they are another consenting adult. Rather than attempt to reform the law which allows these particular freaks to marry 14 year olds, they just continue trying to prosecute them on polygamy which they will never be able to make stick.

The long and short... Prosecuting on polygamy opens up a can of worms about adult freedom... stop this farce, and change the law that allows them to marry 14 year olds if that's what you're so concerned about.

Because as it is, if it's legal to marry a 14 year old, and the gov loathes it so much that they're going to try to make other charges stick to make up for the inability to charge on that, then the gov is breaking faith with us. If it's so abhorrant to marry 14 year olds... STOP IT FROM HAPPENING!!!
 
Spade
#21
Section 293 of the Criminal Code of Canada

Polygamy

293. (1) Every one who

(a) practises or enters into or in any manner agrees or consents to practise or enter into

(i) any form of polygamy, or

(ii) any kind of conjugal union with more than one person at the same time,

whether or not it is by law recognized as a binding form of marriage, or

(b) celebrates, assists or is a party to a rite, ceremony, contract or consent that purports to sanction a relationship mentioned in subparagraph (a)(i) or (ii),

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

Evidence in case of polygamy

(2) Where an accused is charged with an offence under this section, no averment or proof of the method by which the alleged relationship was entered into, agreed to or consented to is necessary in the indictment or on the trial of the accused, nor is it necessary on the trial to prove that the persons who are alleged to have entered into the relationship had or intended to have sexual intercourse.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 257.
 
coldstream
#22
I have absolutely no confidence that this case will go anywhere near a conviction. In fact i would be surprised if it was not dismissed. That's not to say it should not be prosecuted, but look at the context. 'Gay' marriage has turned the institution into an irrelevancy as a legal construct. It was already eroded prior to that, but that legislation turned it into a joke.

We have a Supreme Court and lesser court system which has turned the Charter of Rights and Freedoms into a tyranny of Moral Relativism and Radical Individualism. How can you possibly impose standards on such a keystone of our society in that atmoshphere. We have an incompetent Chief Justice of Canada, Bev McLachlin, who turned the nation's highest civilian award into an icon of division and decay, by awarding it as a political symbol to Canada's Doctor of Death, Henry Morgentaler.

Winston Blackwell and his cohorts are skumbags. They use religious extortion to force children into marriage for which they seek no civic credentials. They evict young men, with a one way bus ticket, from their community because they pose competition to their sexual designs on young women. It is a malignant situation but the courts and government no longer have the moral sense to do anything about it.
 
talloola
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Then your problem is with forced marriages and child marriages, not polygamy.

The problems you describe are not unique to polygamy and can happen in monogomous marriages just as easily.

You are confusing different issues.

Polygamy which involves consenting adults of free will should be legal.

Forced marriages or child marriages which can happen in monogomous or polygamous marriages are already illegal in Canada.

Yes, they are different issues, but the beginning of polygamy most times in
those camps is child molestation, as those children are forced into those
marriages which after a number of years seem like a happy polygamous
marriage, so the two go hand in hand, even though they are different
legal issues. I'm sure there are no records proving those marriages started
when the bride was about 14 or thereabouts, the documentation would
state otherwise. After that child has two or three children, and is about
20 or so, she would not want to change her situation, so then, do we refer
to that marriage as a happy one and a legal one?
The two different legal issues are 'one' problem, so, I feel comfortable talking
about the two together on this forum.
 
VanIsle
#24
Good for you Talloola. That is exactly right.
 
dirtylinder
#25
I lived very close to Bountiful and I know that they push laws all the time...they had 16 yr. olds driving logging trucks down steep roads which almost killed some hunters that I know...another good friend went to look at a horse they had advertised for sale....because they didn't think it worthy the animal was treated so bad, she bought it and threw the $ at the BIG Mr. Blackmore himself...she swore, kicked dirt at him, and headed home with the poor immaciated beast...he looks awesome now and is very happy! They think they can get away with animal cruelty, rape, and more! BLACKMORE'S are devils!
 
Socrates the Greek
#26
What this two jerks in Bountiful need is, to be behind bars for life and at the same time roommates in the same cage as big mean lifer and ruthless Black Leroy.... That will set karma right for these two jerks.
 
earth_as_one
#27
The outrage I'm seeing above relates to child marriage, child molestation, age of consent issues, sexual abuse, cruelty to animals and so on... everything but bigamy. If these people have committed these other crimes, then charge them with these crimes. Those other crimes are far more serious and straight forward.

But they have nothing to do with relationships between consenting adults.

If a man is married and has a mistress, is anyone breaking the law?

If a man and two women live together are they breaking the law?

If the two adult women are well aware of their situation and consenting, then why should someone be arrested? Now if people are upset about women's rights regarding polygamy, then why don't they care about the rights of a mistress? At least with legal polygamy, the "mistress" would have legal rights.

Quote:

Polly stands outside the Merry Wives Cafe, a prearranged rendezvous point, nervously watching vehicles pull up. She is middle-aged, clear-eyed and maternal, with an easy smile.
She apologizes to a reporter for withholding her last name but says she cannot risk getting arrested. "I have children," she explains later, her eyes moist.

Polly leads the way to a nearby office. Three others are waiting there: her adult kids, each dressed in fashionable business attire.

The introductions begin:

• Lorine, 30, is not a birth daughter but insists that Polly is her mom. She has degrees in business management and English literature. She traveled the West on business before entering a polygamous marriage four years ago.

• Bethany, 21, a birth daughter, also is in a plural marriage. She has a community-college degree, works as an administrative assistant and runs a graphic-design business out of her home.

• Joseph, 19, who is Polly's birth son, graduated from high school two years ago and spent a year as a community volunteer before starting college. He is unmarried and not dating.

They decline to divulge details about their families, fearful that specific admissions may be used against them in a future purge of polygamists. But they are eager to challenge the popular notion that polygamous spouses are brainwashed, and they assail the history of anti-bigamy laws.

At a public forum days earlier, Polly says, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff made it clear he would prosecute polygamists if he had enough money, manpower and jail space.

"This is targeted persecution based on a religious belief," Lorine says angrily. "We're fighting for the right to decriminalize our lifestyle and legalize it."

Polly and her children belong to The Work of Jesus Christ, a group that rejects child marriages and embraces the modern world.
At 41, Polly has nine birth children and is a teacher at the local school, with a bachelor's degree in business and a master's degree in education.

She shakes her head at the depictions of her as a dupe or cultist. "I have these beautiful children and this wonderful family, and I try to figure out what I'm doing wrong," she says. "I'm completely baffled that someone would look at me and say, 'You know what? You're ignorant.'

"With the help of my spiritual leaders, I chose the man I was going to marry," she says. "I hate to call myself a women's libber because it has so many negative connotations. But in a lot of aspects the way we live is a woman's dream. . . . It's about being the woman that you know you can be." As an example, she said while working toward her degree and in a career, other mothers in her household helped look after her children and take care of housekeeping.

The dream comes with complications. To maintain secrecy, wives must be careful how they identify themselves. They avoid shopping together or socializing with the husband's business associates. Children learn not to refer to their father as Dad or their step-siblings as brother and sister.

Lorine says she was so fearful of prejudice while attending the University of Southern Utah that she never disclosed her background to friends or classmates, and she turned down all dates.
After graduation, she got into business, traveling throughout the West and continued that career after marriage. This year, she settled into domestic life with birth children and the rest of her family.

"I'm a plural wife. I chose this lifestyle with my eyes open," she says. "And I would fight for the right of my daughter to choose it. . . . I was raised in a culture of love."

While plural marriage is a tenet of her faith, Polly insists it also creates a stable family structure. She waves off questions about what happens to men who cannot find wives and rejects the idea that anti-bigamy laws were adopted for the public good.

Rather, Polly says, legislation outlawing polygamy constitutes an attack on one religious practice by a "moral majority" from other faiths.

The family members complain of bigotry and hypocrisy in a nation that treats adultery and divorce as routine yet is repulsed by plural marriages.

"America is about polygamy," Polly says. "It's just that they want to do it one person at a time - serial polygamists. We see marriage differently . . . something that will last forever."

Family Defends Polygamy | Polygamy - 4thefamily.us

Yes I have a problem with the above. These people are persecuted by bigots who want to impose their version of morality on them, when they are intelligent consenting adults who voluntarily choose this lifestyle by their own free will. These people are being discriminated against and I defend the right of consenting adults to freely define themselves and live their life the way they want without fear of persecution from ignorant intolerant people.
 
bobnoorduyn
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Yes I have a problem with the above. These people are persecuted by bigots who want to impose their version of morality on them, when they are intelligent consenting adults who voluntarily choose this lifestyle by their own free will. These people are being discriminated against and I defend the right of consenting adults to freely define themselves and live their life the way they want without fear of persecution from ignorant intolerant people.

What consenting adults do in the privacy of the home is no business of mine, but by trying to legitimize an action publicly and/or legally makes it our business. Are these people not also trying to impose their version of morality on society? The "if it feels good do it" mentality has been the cause of moral decay over the past number of decades and people will go to great lengths to defend their actions, and resort to name calling, or even the courts, when anyone disagrees. The institution of marriage has been re-defined and rendered a joke. How long before a brother marries a sister?

Sure they voluntarily chose this lifestyle, anyone who has ever tried to de-program someone brainwashed by a cult will tell you that it is a nearly impossible task. They choose what is familiar and comfortable; this is a normal human trait, (it can also be called the Stockholm Syndrome). If they have known nothing different of course they will choose it, even after being out in the real world.

The excuse that adultery and divorce is accepted is baseless; it is this moral decay that has de-sensitized society to it. Adultery is a leading cause of divorce, and at one time was a legitimate grounds for divorce. Now there is no need of any grounds, in this country at least. Divorce is hardly accepted as normal by anyone going through it, (except in Hollyweird, but that's not the real world anyway). And adultery is absolutely devastating to the person cheated on. That it is not illegal doesn't make it right or moral, or even acceptible by society at large.

Some cultures support honour killings, it may even be their religious belief. To them it is acceptable, moral, even justified; does that make it right? At what point do we put the brakes on age old customs that don’t conform to our society’s ideals? Or do we just allow these customs to permeate society unabated?

Many species allow only the alpha male to mate with the females at the exclusion of all others. It is our morality, among other things, that separates us from the animal kingdom. There are times when collective rights do trump individual rights, especially when these individual rights involve an entire community and new generations brought up in a culture that runs counter to accepted social mores.
 
#juan
#29
Good post Bobnoorduyn. You've pretty much nailed my opinions on several subjects. My parents, were they alive, would be disgusted with the goings on in Bountiful. Just the idea of a fifty year old child molester with 80 wives still disgusts me. I think there may be a good argument for plowing that damn town under and starting over.
 
WeeLeprechaun
#30
\live and let live. Their choice. Ever been to Bountiful. They are happy people content with their lives.
 

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