Should Quebec separate from Canada? (Should Quebec Separate From Canada)


Gonzo
#61
My point is that as long as separatists are a threat to Canada, Montreal will never be a world city. This is true. The first time the separatist party came to power under Rene Levesque all the major business moved to Toronto. This is a fact. It's not an ignorant comment. The language police are placing hefty fines on small business and shops that have signs in their native language. This is running out culture from other parts of the world that help make a city a "world city." Is this an ignorant comment?
The separatist are a provincial and federal party. It doesn't matter if Montreal is a separatist city or not. The separatist party holds Montreal back.
 
s_lone
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo

My point is that as long as separatists are a threat to Canada, Montreal will never be a world city. This is true. The first time the separatist party came to power under Rene Levesque all the major business moved to Toronto. This is a fact. It's not an ignorant comment. The language police are placing hefty fines on small business and shops that have signs in their native language. This is running out culture from other parts of the world that help make a city a "world city." Is this an ignorant comment?
The separatist are a provincial and federal party. It doesn't matter if Montreal is a separatist city or not. The separatist party holds Montreal back.

It all depends what you consider being a "world city". Economically, Montreal may not be as powerful as Toronto and in that sense, it isn't a world city. But culturally I'm pretty sure there is as much cultural diversity in Montreal than any other big Canadian city. If cultural diversity is what's needed to be a "world city" than Montreal certainly is one.
 
Gonzo
#63
The language police hamper this. They fine small businesses for putting up signs that are not in French. How does this benefit Quebec?
Montreal and Quebec City are full of history. That’s why I love those two cities. Quebec City is like being in Europe (France) and Montreal is great for visiting and dinning. But for culture, festivals, and a thriving economy, Toronto is the place to be. This is a subjective opinion. Half the population of Toronto were born in another country. Thats what makes Toronto a world city.
For a while in the 60's it looked like Montreal was going to be Canada's world class city, from what I've read. But then the separatists screwed it all up and everyone packed up and moved to Toronto.
What I'd like to know is, do separatists believe that if they were to separate they'd get all of Quebec? How would they settle land claims with Natives? If they can leave Canada, can Natives leave Quebec?
 
s_lone
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo

What I'd like to know is, do separatists believe that if they were to separate they'd get all of Quebec? How would they settle land claims with Natives? If they can leave Canada, can Natives leave Quebec?

That' probably the toughest question to answer I admit. There would necessarily be some rough negotiations...

About Montreal, I'm pretty happy with the way Montreal is right now. It's a great city to live in and there IS a lot going on. Of course, if Toronto is bigger, there will be more festivals... That doesn't mean Montreal is more boring... God no! hehehe... At least here you can still live in decent places for decent prices. But maybe I'm wrong, I've never been to Toronto. But I keep hearing that everything there is way overpriced...
 
sine000
#65
Montreal is very nice...been there...people are nice there....ah....Montreal is very similar to Toronto in ways.....but then i dont think people of montreal want t separate from canada.
 
Gonzo
#66
Just because I dont think Montreal is a world city doesn't mean that it should be. I like Montreal the way it is too. Thats why I visit all the time.
Maybe if Quebec were to separate they would need a city to represent the new country. If that were to happen (and I hope it never does), Montreal would be that city and then it would have to change.
 
sanch
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo

Just because I dont think Montreal is a world city doesn't mean that it should be. I like Montreal the way it is too. Thats why I visit all the time.
Maybe if Quebec were to separate they would need a city to represent the new country. If that were to happen (and I hope it never does), Montreal would be that city and then it would have to change.

I’m assuming that you feel a separatist impulse and linguistic control is contributing to Montreal remaining a provincial center. Granted these are still factors and very much in play. But apart from this your view of Montreal is very much a historical one.

Montreal as a city is evolving very quickly. For the last 5 years I’ve been spending two months each year there and the changes are remarkable. English is much more widely spoken as young people are realizing they have to know English to participate globally. They are not such easy recipients of the isolation of separatism. You can see this shift in voting patterns.

Montreal is also one of the more real diverse cities in the world. It is a true cosmopolitan city. There are mixed families and couples everyware. The city Montreal is most like is Barcelona which in the eighties was also a coastal backwater wrapped up in separatist sentiment. Today it is an amazing 21st century city. For ethic diversity and the ability to accommodate this diversity in a unique way I would give the edge to Montreal.

Outside of the fact that both Montreal and Toronto are in Canada there is no basis for comparison. They are not alike in any way.

The downside to Montreal is the winter.
 
Grit86
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo

The language police hamper this. They fine small businesses for putting up signs that are not in French. How does this benefit Quebec?

The "language police" thing is often exaggerated in the media and such. My brother in-law runs a store in Montreal and he said the government gave him and his staff up to three years to update their signs and catalogues.
 
Hotshot
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by sine000

Quote: Originally Posted by Hotshot

2 weeks of summer? You must have had to go to summer school to tweek your marks up.... unless you meant 2 months...

haha....sorry i mean 2 months....but my marks were good...so no summer school for me...haha....me close to 75 mosts a day....haha...

Perhaps you should get a life...
 
sine000
#70
LOL....I get access from computer everywhere i go...So im always on CANADIANFORUM!!!
 
Hank C
#71
I gotta wonder, what do Quebecers think would happen financially if they seperate, their social programs, their currency...........
 
sine000
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by Hank C

I gotta wonder, what do Quebecers think would happen financially if they seperate, their social programs, their currency...........

haha...this is what i believe would happen

Financially- Starve on their own, probably will get help from France

Social Programs- Run all of them in Francais

Currency- Change it to Quebec Franc..eh?

LOL....
 
Gonzo
#73
Quebcec could use any currency it wanted to. It could still use Canadian dollars. but it wont happen. They wont separate.
 
sine000
#74
haha...were just assuming that they wont separate now.....they might separate in the future...
 
Gonzo
#75
I dont think they can legally.
 
s_lone
#76
That`s right Sine000...

If Quebec became a country, Quebecers would suddenly starve to death because everybody with money would suddenly say: Oh my God!!! I've got to get the hell out of here because these people are DANGEROUS! They've expressed themselves democratically and managed to declare themselves a country.

scaaary!!!
 
sine000
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by s_lone

That`s right Sine000...

If Quebec became a country, Quebecers would suddenly starve to death because everybody with money would suddenly say: Oh my God!!! I've got to get the hell out of here because these people are DANGEROUS! They've expressed themselves democratically and managed to declare themselves a country.

scaaary!!!

haha...you live in montreal EH?....do you agree to Quebec separating?....what would you do if they really separated?
 
Gonzo
#78
I believe Quebec could survive on it's own. But I dont think their standard of living would be better then if Quebec were in Canada. We have such a high standard of living, one of the best in the world! Quebecs first years would be very hard.
 
sine000
#79
first couple of years.....it would be like the great depression....
 
Hamlet
#80
The economics of Quebec is the big question.

If Quebec were to go it alone, one of the big unanswered questions is what happens to the existing treaties that were negotiated between Canada and the U.S.

Essentially, what this boils down to is this: does an independent Quebec inherit the financial benefits of NAFTA? My guess is that Canada would argue "no". Here's a quick example of why I think that.

Canada provides 30 or 35% of America's lumber needs. Of that, Quebec provides about 18%. Now, if at some point Quebec's standing in regards to NAFTA is in question, what do you think the other provinces and Ottawa are going to argue? They're going to want B.C. and Ontario to take up that 18%. This would be repeated in all industries. What Quebec loses would be Canada's gain.

I believe an independent Quebec would face a future similar to that of Russia. Initially, unemployment would be quite high--perhaps 20 to 35% unemployment. Immigration to Quebec would come to a standstill, and it's population would begin to drop. The economic disparity between Quebec and Canada would be staggering. But, after a decade or two, I think you'd see things start to turn around. Quebec would create it's own bi-national trade agreements and the anger that Canada might hold toward Quebec would probably begin to abate.

Canada would be looking out for what's in Canada's best interests, and what would be in Canada's best interests would be to dump as much national debt on Quebec's shoulders and take as much industry away from Quebec as possible. But rarely do political leaders want to address these kind of details.
 
Said1
Free Thinker
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by Hamlet

The economics of Quebec is the big question.

If Quebec were to go it alone, one of the big unanswered questions is what happens to the existing treaties that were negotiated between Canada and the U.S.

Essentially, what this boils down to is this: does an independent Quebec inherit the financial benefits of NAFTA? My guess is that Canada would argue "no". Here's a quick example of why I think that.

Canada provides 30 or 35% of America's lumber needs. Of that, Quebec provides about 18%. Now, if at some point Quebec's standing in regards to NAFTA is in question, what do you think the other provinces and Ottawa are going to argue? They're going to want B.C. and Ontario to take up that 18%. This would be repeated in all industries. What Quebec loses would be Canada's gain.

I believe an independent Quebec would face a future similar to that of Russia. Initially, unemployment would be quite high--perhaps 20 to 35% unemployment. Immigration to Quebec would come to a standstill, and it's population would begin to drop. The economic disparity between Quebec and Canada would be staggering. But, after a decade or two, I think you'd see things start to turn around. Quebec would create it's own bi-national trade agreements and the anger that Canada might hold toward Quebec would probably begin to abate.

Canada would be looking out for what's in Canada's best interests, and what would be in Canada's best interests would be to dump as much national debt on Quebec's shoulders and take as much industry away from Quebec as possible. But rarely do political leaders want to address these kind of details.

Yes, Quebec has a lot to lose going it alone. For example, as a national government, it could not use its provincial status in order to protect Quebec firms when bidding for contracts with Hydro-Quebec nor would they be able keep rules pertaining to such cultural (language) protections, such as distribution of english films in Quebec. Unless all members agreed, of course!

Also, membership in the World Trade Organization is required prior to entry into NAFTA and neither process would be automatic, easy or fast. WTO membership alone, would involve years of complicated discussions; and not to mention the fact that there are already 30 countries standing in line, for such talks. Plus any concessions granted at that stage of game, must be granted to all WTO members.

What a daunting process.
 
Zzarchov
#82
If quebec really wants to seperate Im not willing to sit in a foxhole and shoot people so they will stay under my nations thumb, I wish them good luck and hope they really want it, as its not like we force anything upon them now.

They also must allow any groups who wish to stay in Canada to stay, such as the Innu. As I WOULD sit in a foxhole to keep fellow citizens from being forced from their country and ruled under a foriegn thumb against their wishes.
 
Hiro
#83
Interesting Debate.

I beleive it is not constitutional for Quebec to separate (yet). But, who cares. That is irrelevant. If a clear majority Quebecers want to separate then they can and there is nothing that the rest of Canada can do to stop them. 40% of our military is from Quebec.

But, really why would they want to separate? They would be losing a great deal of power, influence and independence if they did. Right now Quebec is more independent than any other province in Canada, and it is possibly more independent than Canada as a whole. By independence I mean that Quebec can do whatever Quebec wants on Quebec soil (within reason).

Think about it... Quebec has its own:

1. Immigration policy,
2. Taxation policy,
3. System of education,
4. and system of Law.

Quebec has broken the Canadian Charter of Rights and it can do it again. Right now, if Quebec wanted to have an army it could form and army. (There would be no way to stop them). Ottawa can simply suggest to Quebec. Quebec can simply refuse any demand Ottawa makes of them (It has in the past).

If Quebec left, they would actually have to answer to governments on a global scale and they would be held accountable for what they did. Now Quebec only has to answer to the rest of Canada, who they can dutifully ignore.
 
Explorer
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonzo

Quebec could use any currency it wanted to. It could still use Canadian dollars.

Oh, you mean that new Unilingual English one, or will they insist the U.S. make theirs bilingual.

And I am sure they would want to move the Hydro dam farther South since they wouldnt want to lose it or the money from Newfoundland Hydro that they have been scamming for years.
 
turubawebmaster
#85
I live in Ontario and I personally don't care what goes on in Quebec... In a way it would be better if Quebec seperates because Canada would be just English but to think of it we're the second largest country in the world so in that way it would hurt Canada... I am tired of hearing them wanting us to be billingual while they have French only.... Quebecers should mind their business abotu Ontarians... I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there.... Some people I know there are pretty nice actually but I think their politics are all snobs and they have some ridiculous laws.... Quebec is suppose to be English and French and I don't believe that French should be an official language in Canada.... Ontario is English and that's the way the ball bounces... I think we're better off having Quebec seperate sometimes for the better
 
turubawebmaster
#86
I live in Ontario and I personally don't care what goes on in Quebec... In a way it would be better if Quebec seperates because Canada would be just English but to think of it we're the second largest country in the world so in that way it would hurt Canada... I am tired of hearing them wanting us to be billingual while they have French only.... Quebecers should mind their business abotu Ontarians... I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there.... Some people I know there are pretty nice actually but I think their politics are all snobs and they have some ridiculous laws.... Quebec is suppose to be English and French and I don't believe that French should be an official language in Canada.... Ontario is English and that's the way the ball bounces... I think we're better off having Quebec seperate sometimes for the better but I think about how the English in Montreal and those in Shawville and Lennoxville would feel if that would happen so it would be sad for them to end up in a french country... I just think Quebecers should stop the language law and live like us
I hate language police... I think they're all retarded
 
s_lone
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by turubawebmaster View Post

I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there....

Do you know what you are talking about? There are people from outside Quebec working where I work. Last thing I know, is that Quebec is still part of Canada and that you don't need a special work permit to work in Quebec if you're Canadian.

Of course, people who don't speak a word of French will have a hard time getting a job in the francophone parts of Quebec. But that's kind of obvious isn't it? Would I find a job in Ontario if I didn't speak a word of English?
 
Zzarchov
#88
A point here:

People with money DO scream "Oh my god! these people have represented their wishes democratically and elected to seperate into a new nation! FLEE IN TERROR!"

Thats what they do in every single other country in existence. Unless Quebec has some magical pixie dust that prevents people from realizing its bad to invest in a country thats unstable.. (all new countries are unstable for a few months).

And once they leave, why would they go back? Trade Barriers, repressed minorities will start rioting (those who are "eroding quebec culture"), Native Unrest, political infighting..

Who knows what government inside a cut off Quebec may emerge from the first few months, My guess is the Hells Angels and other Organized crime (Strong in Quebec) wouldn't sit back and miss this opportunity to turn quebec into their playground.


When the cultural differences amount not even to poutine and crappy pop artists (Who we have everywhere else), whats their to seperate from? You speak french. Otherwise Quebec, the rest of Canada and the United States and most of europe are all part of modern culture. You look at our daily routines and they are all pretty much the same I'd bet.
 
Vicious
#89
With Quebecer's love of Fidel and Hugo, if I owned a business there I'd move the second they were success on a referendum.
 
earth_as_one
#90
I'm glad a majority of Quebecois voted to remain in Canada. (slim as it was)

Quebecois know how to party! They are more open about sex. Montreal has some of the best restaurants and bars in Canada. I've found women in Quebec City are just a little prettier, more fashionable and friendlier than other major Canadian cities.

If it wasn't for Quebec, Canada would be even more dominated by the US than we are now. Canada would be in Iraq.

A tous mes amis du Québec, merci du choix pour rester au Canada!
 

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