The Quebec "nation" should separate... (Let Quebec Separate)


Reverend Blair
#31
All good questions, Rick. A lot of Anglophones would certainly move and some offices would undoubtedly disappear, but I think the majority of that exodus is over now.

The questions about the Maritimes and the St Lawrence are perfect examples of why things need to be discussed more. Treaties between the US and Canada governing the St. Lawrence seaway and the Great Lakes would have to be renegotiated to include a third party. Given the USA's present mood over water rights and trade and security issues, that's a whole other can of worms than it used to be. Certainly to try to renegotiate such a thing with the Bush administration would be a bad idea.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

All good questions, Rick. A lot of Anglophones would certainly move and some offices would undoubtedly disappear, but I think the majority of that exodus is over now.

I don't think the exodus is even close to over. Having lived in Montréal, I know a very large amount of people who would move if Québec separated. Thanks to the separatist movement, Montréal will only see more and more empty shop windows and abandoned buildings.

You might have thought that the amount of people moving out of Quebec in the last 10 years is a lot, but honestly, you have not seen anything yet.
 
Numure
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by Andem

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

All good questions, Rick. A lot of Anglophones would certainly move and some offices would undoubtedly disappear, but I think the majority of that exodus is over now.

I don't think the exodus is even close to over. Having lived in Montréal, I know a very large amount of people who would move if Québec separated. Thanks to the separatist movement, Montréal will only see more and more empty shop windows and abandoned buildings.

You might have thought that the amount of people moving out of Quebec in the last 10 years is a lot, but honestly, you have not seen anything yet.

I've lived my hole life and montreal, and theirs alot more seperatist then you might imagine. The exodus is long over, and then ones still here will most likely stay here, as long as their standard of living does decrease. Same with corporations... Do you really think compagnies, will live a profit behind? Thats ridiculous.

As for our economy, won't suffer that much. Parizeau is the greatest economist of this province, and he was a leader of the PQ. La Caisse Desjardin, the biggest private investement compagny of Québec, is known for its seperatist stance. Sure, some will move. But they will be replace by another, that im quite sure.

We would own the entrance to the saint-lawrence, this full control over the flow of goods threw it. It would be in the intrest of both Canada and the US to negotiate with a new goverment.

Natives, quite the question indeed. The use of the military in Oka was over kill. The police could of easily handled it. Québec goverments have somewhat, better relationships with all Natives if you exclude the Mohawks. The montagnais here (Chicoutimi, moved not so long ago) live quite well. They have their own schools, payed for by the provincial goverment. It can be seen with other tribes as well. Its the Mohawks that are the problem. They refuse to learn french, and continue to cause trouble. By refusing to adapt, they are causing their own downfall. And thus, thats why they are one of the poorest indian Nations in Québec. But afterall, the Natives are under federal juristiction. And to even negotiate with the Natives, Québec has to fight with Ottawa. As of last election, the BQ count a Native in their parlement ranks. A Montagnais, from the Lac StJean area.

The french population counts for 82% of total. Anglophones little more then 11%, and the rest are allophones.
 
montreal_citizen
#34
Someone wrote this????
"Wanna know from where the majority of immigrants to Québec come from? France. And its growing each year. Thousands and Thousands of French citizens moving to join "Les cousins Québécois".
What? Are you delusional? The immigrants coming to Quebec are from third world countries. Have you not noticed a rise in Indian, Pakistan, Haitian, etc. newly-arrived?
You're right, maybe you shouldn't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. Europeans are doing well in Europe, including France. They don't need to come to the Western World anymore.
 
montreal_citizen
#35
Someone wrote this????
"Wanna know from where the majority of immigrants to Québec come from? France. And its growing each year. Thousands and Thousands of French citizens moving to join "Les cousins Québécois".
What? Are you delusional? The immigrants coming to Quebec are from third world countries. Have you not noticed a rise in Indian, Pakistan, Haitian, etc. newly-arrived?
You're right, maybe you shouldn't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. Europeans are doing well in Europe, including France. They don't need to come to the Western World anymore.
 
montreal_citizen
#36
Someone wrote this????
"Wanna know from where the majority of immigrants to Québec come from? France. And its growing each year. Thousands and Thousands of French citizens moving to join "Les cousins Québécois".
What? Are you delusional? The immigrants coming to Quebec are from third world countries. Have you not noticed a rise in Indian, Pakistan, Haitian, etc. newly-arrived?
You're right, maybe you shouldn't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. Europeans are doing well in Europe, including France. They don't need to come to the Western World anymore.
 
Numure
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by montreal_citizen

Someone wrote this????
"Wanna know from where the majority of immigrants to Québec come from? France. And its growing each year. Thousands and Thousands of French citizens moving to join "Les cousins Québécois".
What? Are you delusional? The immigrants coming to Quebec are from third world countries. Have you not noticed a rise in Indian, Pakistan, Haitian, etc. newly-arrived?
You're right, maybe you shouldn't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. Europeans are doing well in Europe, including France. They don't need to come to the Western World anymore.

Look at the statistique for the last 4 years. The fastest growing immigrant culture comming here, is from France. Mostly French jewish and muslims avoiding the past years of hates towards their community. They've choosen Québec as new grounds.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#38
There are a lot of immigrants to Quebec who come from the Third World.. mostly former French colonies in Africa, especially a lot of cab drivers in Montreal. Don't forget the immigrants en mass who come from Haiti.

I'm also aware that a lot of French immigrants who come to Quebec usually don't stay long... 3-4 years at maximum (in a lot of cases).
 
Numure
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Andem

There are a lot of immigrants to Quebec who come from the Third World.. mostly former French colonies in Africa, especially a lot of cab drivers in Montreal.

I'm also aware that a lot of French immigrants who come to Quebec usually don't stay long... 3-4 years at maximum (in a lot of cases).

You're right for both But in the past few years, more and more are moving from france because of Racial tensions.
 
Machjo
#40
"Natives, quite the question indeed. The use of the military in Oka was over kill. The police could of easily handled it. Québec goverments have somewhat, better relationships with all Natives if you exclude the Mohawks. The montagnais here (Chicoutimi, moved not so long ago) live quite well. They have their own schools, payed for by the provincial goverment. It can be seen with other tribes as well. Its the Mohawks that are the problem. They refuse to learn french, and continue to cause trouble. By refusing to adapt, they are causing their own downfall. And thus, thats why they are one of the poorest indian Nations in Québec. But afterall, the Natives are under federal juristiction. And to even negotiate with the Natives, Québec has to fight with Ottawa. As of last election, the BQ count a Native in their parlement ranks. A Montagnais, from the Lac StJean area."

My questin then, is, what right, morally or ethically, has an ex-colonial people got to force its language on the original inhabitants of the continent. I'm sorry, but that stinks of colonialism. "It's the Mohawks that are the problem." I'd say it's the 'white man', not the Mohawks, who is the problem. And for them to be poor because they refuse to learn French (assuming that's the reason) is pure abuse of power by the colonizers of their territory. Just as many in Quebec want to learn English for business reasons, so it's the same with the Mohawks. And just as teh Quebecois want to preserve their language, so it's the same with the Mohawks. What moral right have the Quebec people got to sacrifice the native language of the Mohawks in order to increase the number of French speakers on the continent. Remember, both English and French are foreign to the American continent, both being European, not American, languages, lest we forget. That's just another reason I'd be in favour of an easy language to be adopted at the federal (or should Quebec separate) national level, so that the English speakers can learn their language, the French speakers, theirs, and the natives could finally regain at least some of their rights back, with everyone simply learning the common language as a second language, much like what is done in Indonesia.
 
Machjo
#41
I've got French Canadian blood, British blood, and native blood, and can say that just by looking at history that the natives have a stronger historical claim than Quebec, as much as many Quebecois might not like to hear this, with the Quebec nation of a few hundred years being but a baby in comparison to the 30 to 50 thousand years the natives have been in Canada. So while the French and English elephants are fighting for territory, many forget that the indian mice are being trampled underfoot in the process. So while I'm indifferent to whether or not Quebec separates, I'm still a strong believer in respect for Canada's natives, either by the federal government or the Quebec government, either way. The only thing that would concern me with a sovereign Quebec is that, while it might help fight English language hegemony in the world, which certainly is a big concern, it risks bringing with it French langauge hegemony on Quebec's indian reservations.

In that respect, perhaps a united canada could be to the natives' advantage if they play their cards right by playing their two ex-colonial peoples against each other. But then again, that also risks leading back to the elephant and mice scenario. So it seems the natives lose either way.
 
Reverend Blair
#42
It also ignores the Cree population in Northern Quebec. They have valid land claims based on treaties. Those land claims could well give them sovereignty over a lot of Quebec's hydro-electric power.

We have muc the same issue here in Manitoba, but it is not being further complicated by a separtist force in the province.
 
data-unlimited
#43
Why do Quebec still want to separate when Canada try as much as they can to give in their special "needs"?
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by data-unlimited

Why do Quebec still want to separate when Canada try as much as they can to give in their special "needs"?

You and every other non-quebec Canadian asks this question. Some people in Quebec feel disenfranchised by the current system of the federal government, of which feelings are enhanced and double-reinforced by separatist propaganda.

Welcome to CC, data ;p I hope you join our conversations.. very few Albertans here, but lots of your neighbours from BC
 
data-unlimited
#45
lol, you're wrong about that. Even though I'm not from Quebec - it doesn't mean I'm a Canadian. I only asked that question 'cause I've just recently moved to Canada and don't know much about the political systems here.
And thanks for your warm welcome.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by data-unlimited

lol, you're wrong about that. Even though I'm not from Quebec - it doesn't mean I'm a Canadian. I only asked that question 'cause I've just recently moved to Canada and don't know much about the political systems here.
And thanks for your warm welcome.

Sorry for making that assumption. But it is a question a lot of people ask :P But take a look at some of the threads by Numure, he's a separatist who's part of this community and he's posted his views a lot.

Here: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forum..._author=Numure
 
data-unlimited
#47
thanks for the tip - I'll be sure to look in on that.
 
stiritup
#48
As a Seperatist how can you continue to accept the benefits of the country you want to leave? Isn't that like the teenager who stands at the open fridge telling his parents he should be allowed to move out because he's so hard done by living with them? As a country, why do we feel we need to put up with the sniveling whining elements of a political movement that wants to take from us that to which they have no right? Enough is enough! If you don't want to be a part of this country, then leave but don't expect us to give you anything. You only deserve free passage to the greener grass over what ever fence you think you're being hemmed in by. And if you think you're going to take anything...
Au revoir.
 
Mediana
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Numure

Wanna know from where the majority of immigrants to Québec come from? France. And its growing each year. Thousands and Thousands of French citizens moving to join "Les cousins Québécois".

From where are you getting your information? In my experience the number of French moving to Quebec is insignificant compared to the massive numbers of North Africans immigrating here.

Conversely, I know of several Europeans who have fled Quebec after failed attempts at trying to fit in; including a Belgian couple and a French family in Montreal, along with a Swiss couple in Trois-Rivieres.

Its not hard to understand why... The difference in the standard of living between Quebec and Europe is minimal, whereas Maghreb immigrants have everything to gain and little to lose by moving to Quebec.

The Arabization of places like Montreal is happening at a faster rate than your infusion of French "cousins".

I see hijabs everywhere, but still not a decent croissants au beurre anywhere in sight.
 
Numure
#50
Ohh yes, indeed. But I know many Belgian and French coupels that are still here, many at that. With no plans to leave any time soon. I know alot more that are just waiting to move.

But indeed, a growing community with many advantages is present in Québec. North Africans. I also know many. A great people, with alot to add to Québec. They just need to take their place.
 
no1important
#51
Leave but leave the land. Mabe Haiti will take disinfranchised Quebecors.