North American integration - second North American Forum


Karlin
#1
Quote:

While the media were busy obsessing over rumours of a budding romance between Condoleezza Rice and Peter MacKay last week, a more significant relationship was developing behind closed doors.

Away from the spotlight, from September 12 to 14, in Banff Springs, Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor met with U.S. and Mexican government officials and business leaders to discuss North American integration at the second North American Forum.

"Getting closer to Uncle Sam" {quote above from this article:
http://tinyurl.com/ecpjh

K -
We are getting closer to being Americans than we know:
- we don't know because the Conservatives are not telling us what their agenda is, and no comment is all we get after these meetings.
- we are getting closer because the Harper government is making moves that are erasing our soveriegnty from the USA.

There are two main groups of corporate heads who are crafting this agenda with the Harper government and the Americans - the Canadian Council of Chief Executives — the élite club of Canada's richest CEOs — and the Canada West Foundation, an Alberta think-tank that promotes, among other things, closer economic integration with the United States.

Please understand that these are "Elites", corporate Elites and some politicians. These people help support Harper and he helps them. Ordinary Canadians are just scum to any and all who were at that meeting, we can count on that { I know one of them personally]. They are planning our future without letting us in on any details.

What really bothers me is the military changes Harper has planned. Make it bigger, ramp up the funding for it, and make it so we can operate within the American forces "wherever they go, whatever they do".

Maybe we will change our legal framework so we can torture people too - even innocent people and then not get charged with any offence against humanity because, well, we are doing what America does.

Here are some points in the Agenda of the CCCE that have to do with Canadian military issues, from the CCCE website [link below]:

# Whatever the country's armed forces are asked to do, they must be equipped and trained to do well. Even assuming a significant increase in the total resources devoted to defence and security, review of defence policy, must specify the roles and missions Canada expects its armed forces to perform in protecting Canadian territory and as an instrument of its foreign policy.
# The imperative of excellence requires choices. Just as the government recently decided to forego replacing Cold War main battle tanks in favour of air transportable lightly armoured gun systems, the equipment and training of land, naval and air forces must be focused on the threats Canada is most likely to face in the years ahead.
# Whatever roles and missions Canada chooses, its military forces must be able to operate effectively in conjunction with those of the United States and other allies, within North America and globally.

http://www.ceocouncil.ca/en/canada/defence.php

They don't tell us much detail there, but we can see the general slant they are on, from their website.
They are telling us that we are facing a THREAT, now and in the future, and we know that means terrorists. I would remind everyone that Canada has yet to be attacked, and the USA has now lost more of its citizens to Bush's response to 9/11 than were killed in the 9/11 attacks themselves.
There is no threat. i don't feel it. The chances of any one of us individually getting killed by a terrorist are so miniscule here in Canada, even in the USA, that there realy is no threat. We don't need stronger military to deal with that.

Do we really want to follow Bush down this path?
Harper does.

Karlin
 
Researcher87
#2
The biggest threat Canada will have if it wants to remain a country is not terrorism, that is just a threat targetted from time to time from different groups, in this day and age, Al Qaida, but the major threat that will always be canada's threat if it wants to survive as a country is America.
 
Karlin
#3
Thank you.

It is the first task of any government to be in charge of the military. This appears to be what the USA is doing here...

Here is the "Canada West Foundation" website, in case anyone wants to get a taste of what they say -
http://www.cwf.ca/
 
Sassylassie
#4
Canada is in charge of The Canadian Armed Forces, however I thank god we have "Big Brother" over seeing out troops in Afganistan. Without their Air Support I fear we'd have more fallen. I wave a great big hello to the USA, and I'm throwing in a hug.

Yawn more Karlin Tin Foil hat stuff.
 
Toro
#5
I'm waiting for someone to post the "North American Superhighway" as evidence of further integration.
 
thomaska
#6
It's only a matter of time before we take over and have you all saying "y'all" instead of "eh". Muahahahaha!
 
Karlin
#7
and they wonder why I don't follow up on my posts, ha ha ha.[just kidding, thanks for the replies].
[no, I AM cereal]
 
Proud American
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska

It's only a matter of time before we take over and have you all saying "y'all" instead of "eh". Muahahahaha!


lol.....does everyone in America say ya'll?? I know those in Penny say "yens" and some actually say "you all"!! LOL!!! Still country no matter how you put it....
 
Proud American
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

The biggest threat Canada will have if it wants to remain a country is not terrorism, that is just a threat targetted from time to time from different groups, in this day and age, Al Qaida, but the major threat that will always be canada's threat if it wants to survive as a country is America.

Explain....? How is America a "threat" to Canada? Do you know something I don't? LOL!.....Is Canada about to become our 51st and largest state??
 
Colpy
Conservative
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Proud American

Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

The biggest threat Canada will have if it wants to remain a country is not terrorism, that is just a threat targetted from time to time from different groups, in this day and age, Al Qaida, but the major threat that will always be canada's threat if it wants to survive as a country is America.

Explain....? How is America a "threat" to Canada? Do you know something I don't? LOL!.....Is Canada about to become our 51st and largest state??

I doubt that!

You guys REALLY want 35 million DEMOCRATS to join up?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong person...........
 
Proud American
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote: Originally Posted by Proud American

Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

The biggest threat Canada will have if it wants to remain a country is not terrorism, that is just a threat targetted from time to time from different groups, in this day and age, Al Qaida, but the major threat that will always be canada's threat if it wants to survive as a country is America.

Explain....? How is America a "threat" to Canada? Do you know something I don't? LOL!.....Is Canada about to become our 51st and largest state??

I doubt that!

You guys REALLY want 35 million DEMOCRATS to join up?

Maybe I'm asking the wrong person...........

I am neither Republican nor Democrat, both groups are liars to me....so the answer would be NO......lol..
 
I think not
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

You guys REALLY want 35 million DEMOCRATS to join up?

Sure, if we can send ya'll to the Southern States.
 
Researcher87
#13
America is Canada's biggest threat because at some point in time, someone might just come along and say, well what's the point in having a larger nation with a smaller population up north from us. And we have such an expanding population, some of that room would be nice for Americans to settle.

It is something in America called Manifest Destiny where they should believe their flag should fly all the way to the North Pole, and since America tried to invade in 1812 and failed, attempted to support the Fenians in 1860s and failed and had invasion plans in the 1930s to invade Canada, even though terrorism may be apart of the threat level, America will always be a threat for Canada to be a nation.
 
Zzarchov
#14
America isn't just going to absorb a soveriegn nation as new territory..I mean, they haven't done that since Hawaii..and that was way back in the Twentieth Century, we are in the Twenty-First now!
 
I think not
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

America is Canada's biggest threat because at some point in time, someone might just come along and say, well what's the point in having a larger nation with a smaller population up north from us. And we have such an expanding population, some of that room would be nice for Americans to settle.

It is something in America called Manifest Destiny where they should believe their flag should fly all the way to the North Pole, and since America tried to invade in 1812 and failed, attempted to support the Fenians in 1860s and failed and had invasion plans in the 1930s to invade Canada, even though terrorism may be apart of the threat level, America will always be a threat for Canada to be a nation.

Interesting take there. Tell us about the Canadian version of Manifest Destiny instead. If you have trouble understanding what it is, look at a map what Canada was in 1867 and look at it now.
 
Researcher87
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov

America isn't just going to absorb a soveriegn nation as new territory..I mean, they haven't done that since Hawaii..and that was way back in the Twentieth Century, we are in the Twenty-First now!

So does that really f*ing matter what century we are in. States have been obsorbed through world history. And that is Canada's main threat to survive. There is terrorism and seperatism and all stuff, but the main threat will always be America.

Quote:

Interesting take there. Tell us about the Canadian version of Manifest Destiny instead. If you have trouble understanding what it is, look at a map what Canada was in 1867 and look at it now.

Canada's manifest destiny was from sea to sea, and then sea which was taken through negotiation and swallowed up territory that was independent mostly of british or Canadian control.
 
jimmoyer
#17
We have enough trouble managing our own affairs.

That's OUR manifest destiny.
 
Curiosity
#18
Researcher

The U.S. would have "absorbed" Mexico to the south before Canada if expansion was their intent.

It costs the U.S. plenty right now caring for a huge Mexican citizenry who have no health care, housing, education for their children and elderly needs, etc. - it would be a financial benefit just to combine with that country and give the Mexican poor a good life, rather than creating felons.

Developing Mexico would be a win win situation for both nations.
 
Sassylassie
#19
Researcher wrote: So does that really f*ing matter what century we are in. States have been obsorbed through world history. And that is Canada's main threat to survive. There is terrorism and seperatism and all stuff, but the main threat will always be America.

How is America a threat to us????????
 
I think not
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

Canada's manifest destiny was from sea to sea, and then sea which was taken through negotiation and swallowed up territory that was independent mostly of british or Canadian control.

 
jimmoyer
#21
Absolutely, Wednesday's Child !!

If Mexico could become the manufacturing engine
China has become, NAFTA would sure become a
benefit to all 3 trading partners.

Instead of the giant sucking sound big floppy eared
Ross Perot spoke of in 1992.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Researcher87

America is Canada's biggest threat because at some point in time, someone might just come along and say, well what's the point in having a larger nation with a smaller population up north from us. And we have such an expanding population, some of that room would be nice for Americans to settle.

It is something in America called Manifest Destiny where they should believe their flag should fly all the way to the North Pole, and since America tried to invade in 1812 and failed, attempted to support the Fenians in 1860s and failed and had invasion plans in the 1930s to invade Canada, even though terrorism may be apart of the threat level, America will always be a threat for Canada to be a nation.

I don't think Americans generally see any threat in Canada but American big business, and that is who runs America, would like to see everything in one package, with one set of laws, one set of rules.

Right now the big bad guy is big oil. In a few years it might be big water. Our governments, Liberals and Conservative, have watched while so-called "free trade" has allowed American companies a free hand buying out Canadian businesses. This is every bit as effective as sending their army in. Probably more effective, given the aqpparent incompetence of the U.S. military in Iraq, or previously, in Viet Nam.

Manifest Destiny will always be attractive in the U.S. because the "super patriots" in that country see it as their God-given right. Just like they thought it was their right to kill millions in Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Korea, etc.

Canada's problem is that there is no painless way of reversing the damage that has already been done. Ending the "free trade" agreement would be a good start. Free trade is only free if the Americans like it, as evidenced by the softwood lumber "deal".

There are people who will say Free trade is making us rich. It isn't. Any resource based economy is doing well these days, and we didn't need free trade to do it. We sure as hell didn't need free trade to give American big business all the advantages.
 
Toro
#23
Saying that the US is Canada's biggest threat is silly paranoia.
 
Curiosity
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Absolutely, Wednesday's Child !!

If Mexico could become the manufacturing engine
China has become, NAFTA would sure become a
benefit to all 3 trading partners.

Instead of the giant sucking sound big floppy eared
Ross Perot spoke of in 1992.

Thank you Jim for your affirmation

I makes plain ole sense to me because I see the impact of the cost of supporting the migrant workers who come to California (I am not familiar with this in other states - only California).

Nobody in his/her right mind would want to make that journey the migrants do - and would not if they could find work in their own land - to their benefit and ours.

I believe it could never work however under the present Mexican government system, it would have to be an American democratic system wherein the people established their own support system for education and health thus relieving the U.S. of their support.

The monies the migrants send home to their families could stay in Mexico to offset a payroll deduction to accomplish these benefits....

Seems more humane.... but nobody asked me.
 
Karlin
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro

Saying that the US is Canada's biggest threat is silly paranoia.

Silly paranoia eh ?

Our WATER is attractive to the Americans, our OIL is too, and another 30million consumers/workers paying taxes to that huge war machine would help them too.

Here are links from Vive le Canada organisation that help explain:

Say No to Deep Integration with the United States!

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/staticpages/index.php/ribbon
Quote:

Canadian, U.S., and Mexican elites, including CEOS and politicians, have a plan to create common North American policies and further integrate our economies into a North American Union.

The end goal of the plan is to create a North American Union (NAU) by 2007, a new political and economic entity that would supercede the current countries of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.


Timeline of the Progress Toward a North American Union
http://tinyurl.com/kbtbg

Canada’s Independence Threatened by Task Force Recommendations:
http://www.bcpolitics.ca/int_canadathreatened.htm
Quote:

In a report released on May 17, the Task Force recommends that the Canadian government make a number of changes to speed further economic integration of Canada and Mexico with the United States. Those recommendations include reviewing excluded sections of NAFTA, such as water, and removing any existing barriers to energy, which critics say would threaten Canada’s own domestic energy security.

K - the phrase "removing any existing barriers" means making it easy for corporations to export our oil to the USA - for example with less royalties paid to the Canadian government for our oil, which belongs to the people {"the crown"] until it is extracted.
It also means having less or zero environmental protections and restrictions for those corporations in taking our oil, and water. No emissions controls, no remediating damage to rivers and lakes and natural habitat.
It could also mean that protestors will not be allowed to "bother" those corporations that Canadians feel are going against our national and personal interests. In this, there can be an allowance for AMERICAN troops to enter Canada to crush any rebellions.

So, Toro, what do you mean by saying the USA is "not a threat" to Canada ? - are you saying that Canadians will love everything the American corporations and government backers may choose to do here if given free reign over our resources and economy? I doubt that.

Perhaps you could point out where other nations that have been taken over by the USA are all happy about it...

Karlin
 
Toro
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin

Silly paranoia eh ?

Yes.

This next quote is exactly what I mean.

Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin

Our WATER is attractive to the Americans, our OIL is too, and another 30million consumers/workers paying taxes to that huge war machine would help them too.

The conclusions of the Far Left is that because oil and water are attractive to the US, there always MUST be a deep, hidden conspiracy to take over the country, and that's the end of Canada. There can be no other option.

Paranoia about American annexation of Canada is as old as Canada itself.

The simple fact is that since Canada has come into being, Canada is drawing closer to the United States and will continue to do so, with or without trade barriers, with or without barriers to investment, etc.

And the reason for that is simple - technology.

Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin

Here are links from Vive le Canada organisation that help explain:

Say No to Deep Integration with the United States!

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/staticpages/index.php/ribbon

Quote:

Canadian, U.S., and Mexican elites, including CEOS and politicians, have a plan to create common North American policies and further integrate our economies into a North American Union.

The end goal of the plan is to create a North American Union (NAU) by 2007, a new political and economic entity that would supercede the current countries of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico.

ViveleCanada! What, GlobalResearch didn't have a link?

Quote: Originally Posted by Karlin

Timeline of the Progress Toward a North American Union
http://tinyurl.com/kbtbg

Canada’s Independence Threatened by Task Force Recommendations:
http://www.bcpolitics.ca/int_canadathreatened.htm

Quote:

In a report released on May 17, the Task Force recommends that the Canadian government make a number of changes to speed further economic integration of Canada and Mexico with the United States. Those recommendations include reviewing excluded sections of NAFTA, such as water, and removing any existing barriers to energy, which critics say would threaten Canada’s own domestic energy security.

K - the phrase "removing any existing barriers" means making it easy for corporations to export our oil to the USA - for example with less royalties paid to the Canadian government for our oil, which belongs to the people {"the crown"] until it is extracted.
It also means having less or zero environmental protections and restrictions for those corporations in taking our oil, and water. No emissions controls, no remediating damage to rivers and lakes and natural habitat.
It could also mean that protestors will not be allowed to "bother" those corporations that Canadians feel are going against our national and personal interests. In this, there can be an allowance for AMERICAN troops to enter Canada to crush any rebellions.

So, Toro, what do you mean by saying the USA is "not a threat" to Canada ? - are you saying that Canadians will love everything the American corporations and government backers may choose to do here if given free reign over our resources and economy? I doubt that.

Perhaps you could point out where other nations that have been taken over by the USA are all happy about it...

Karlin

Scare-mongering. It is a common tactic of the Left in Canada to use the boogeyman of American annexation to promote their agenda of class warfare, higher taxes and more government control in your lives.

So go to the web site and see for yourself.

http://www.spp.gov/

In fact, there is so much chatter on the FoilerSphere about this, they've even added a link answering the myths.

http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp

Quote:

Myth: The SPP was an agreement signed by Presidents Bush and his Mexican and Canadian counterparts in Waco, TX, on March 23, 2005.

Fact: The SPP is a dialogue to increase security and enhance prosperity among the three countries. The SPP is not an agreement nor is it a treaty. In fact, no agreement was ever signed.

Myth: The SPP is a movement to merge the United States, Mexico, and Canada into a North American Union and establish a common currency.

Fact: The cooperative efforts under the SPP, which can be found in detail at www.spp.gov, seek to make the United States, Canada and Mexico open to legitimate trade and closed to terrorism and crime. It does not change our courts or legislative processes and respects the sovereignty of the United States, Mexico, and Canada. The SPP in no way, shape or form considers the creation of a European Union-like structure or a common currency. The SPP does not attempt to modify our sovereignty or currency or change the American system of government designed by our Founding Fathers.

Myth: The SPP infringes on the sovereignty of the United States.

Fact: The SPP respects and leaves the unique cultural and legal framework of each of the three countries intact. Nothing in the SPP undermines the U.S. Constitution. In no way does the SPP infringe upon the sovereignty of the United States.

Myth: The SPP creates a NAFTA-plus legal status between the three countries.

Fact: The SPP does not seek to rewrite or renegotiate NAFTA. It creates no NAFTA-plus legal status.

 
I think not
#27
Yes yes. We want your water, and your oil, and your breakfast cereal, and your maple syrup (not the shelf version, the one you sell in Parliament), and your Labatts Blue, and [insert natural resource here]. So, chop chop.
 
Sassylassie
#28
Christ is this tread still going, dah ITN take the water, god you can have our beer, our oil is already owned by the Americans, Exon Mobile is an American Company? Who do the children think owns the companies drilling in Canada are? Dah American. Off shore oil in NS, NFL provide jobs and help the economy grow. Thank you USA.
 
I think not
#29
Works both ways.

Quote:

In 2004, U.S. direct investment in Canada was worth more than $228 billion, while Canadian direct investment in the United States was close to $165 billion, which makes Canada the 7th largest investor in the U.S., accounting for 7.6% of all Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in that country.

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/can-am/...nership-en.asp
 
Hotshot
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaska

It's only a matter of time before we take over and have you all saying "y'all" instead of "eh". Muahahahaha!

If you believe that, you are an idiot. Perhaps we should have kept yankeeland when we burned down the whitehouse during the war of 1812, EH??
 

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