Hundreds feared dead in London tower block fire


HarperCons
+2
#121
People on welfare contribute more to society than the ultra wealthy.
 
MHz
#122
I wonder how many social workers know their jobs depend on high unemployment? (and other factors)
 
Blackleaf
#123
With police saying they still fear the Grenfell Tower Disaster number of dead is significantly higher than the current known 79....

Camden flats: Hundreds of homes evacuated over fire risk fears


BBC News
24 June 2017



More than 700 flats in tower blocks on an estate in the Swiss Cottage area of north-west London have been evacuated because of fire safety concerns.

Camden Council said people in four towers on the Chalcots estate were moved for "urgent fire safety works".

The council added it was booking hotels but around 100 residents have spent the night on air beds in a leisure centre.

The estate's cladding is similar to Grenfell Tower in west London, where a fire is feared to have killed at least 79.

Chalcots was refurbished between 2006 and 2009 by the same firm, Rydon, that oversaw work at Grenfell Tower in 2015-16.

Camden Council said it will remove external thermal cladding from five tower blocks on the Chalcots estate.

It also said there were concerns about the insulation of gas pipes going into flats, and fire doors.

The council initially announced the evacuation of one tower block, Taplow, but later extended the move to all five tower blocks it had checked.

In the early hours of Saturday morning, the council then announced that one of the five - Blashford - did not need to be evacuated, and residents could return.

Blashford is smaller and has "several different design elements".


Air beds laid out in Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre

Residents of the estate attended a public meeting with council officials on Thursday evening.

The council's Labour leader, Georgia Gould, said the decision to evacuate the buildings was made at 18:30 BST on Friday.

She said the fire service "told us they could not guarantee our residents' safety in those blocks".

Some residents said the first they heard of the evacuation was on the news.

The council has secured 270 hotel rooms so far. Emergency accommodation was set up at Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre and at the Camden Centre in King's Cross.

"We're encouraging all residents to stay with friends and family if they can, otherwise we'll provide accommodation," the council said.

"I know it's difficult, but Grenfell changes everything and I just don't believe we can take any risk with our residents' safety and I have to put them first," Ms Gould said.

She said the work is expected to take three to four weeks. Residents will be allowed in at the weekend to collect more possessions under escort from the fire brigade.

Prime Minister Theresa May tweeted: "My thoughts are with residents being evacuated in Camden while their homes are made safe tonight."



She said the government was "offering every support we can" to residents and officials working at the estate.

Teacher Kim Price, who lives in Blashford tower with her 14-year-old son, said: "At 4pm today they said it would be okay and that all the checks were fine.

"And now all of a sudden the news is saying we should get out.

"We've had two letters in two days saying 'you're not safe' then 'you're safe'. I don't really know what to do."

Edward Strange, who lives in an 11th floor flat with his wife and young daughter, said the evacuation was a "complete overreaction".

He told the BBC there had been two previous fires in the block which were easily contained.

"I've got a young daughter, a wife and a cat. I've also got a job. They said it'd take four to six weeks. If the council says four to six weeks it'll take four to six months."

Among those evacuated was Peter Bertram, 94, who has lived on the estate for 46 years.

The former RAF airman, who served in World War Two, said having to leave his home at short notice was a "shock".

"My neighbour told me 'Get this and that'. It happened so quick, I don't have the energy for that now. It's an experience."

Bob O'Toole, chair of Chalcots Estate residents' association, told BBC Breakfast that contractors had been working overnight in several of the tower blocks.

"A lot of people are annoyed because of the way [the evacuation] was done. They're saying it was left too late in the evening. But Camden Council didn't get the information till late, and they acted on that as quickly as possible."


83 residents refuse to leave the estate in the London Borough of Camden

Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said other areas, such as Plymouth and Manchester, had seen measures introduced such as 24-hour fire wardens and did not need evacuating.

"What was very different here is that the local fire service found multiple other failures in fire safety that should have already been in place in the towers, and as a result of that, they've made this quite correct decision."

Mr Javid also said the government would "work with" any local authorities and housing associations that needed financial support to carry out necessary fire safety work in tower blocks.

"Public safety is absolutely paramount, you cannot put a price on people's lives. So local authorities have to do whatever it takes to get their buildings safe."


The estate underwent a £66m refurbishment


Samples from the tower blocks on the Chalcots estate were examined this week

Rebecca Long-Bailey, the Shadow Business Secretary, said people who were in towers where cladding was being investigated would be "living in fear".

"I've had hundreds of constituents contacting my office over the last week, asking whether the buildings they're living in are safe.

"People need to give significant weight to the voice of residents, and if they do want to be moved, if they feel unsafe and haven't been reassured, then provision should be put in place [to move them]."

Camden Council agreed a contract with Rydon Construction to refurbish the Chalcots estate in May 2006 at a cost of £66m.

The work took more than three and a half years. Five towers received new cladding, and 711 flats were modernised with new wiring, heating, kitchens and bathrooms.

Friday night's announcement came as the Metropolitan Police said the Grenfell Tower fire started in a fridge-freezer, and outside cladding and insulation failed safety tests.

A national operation to identify buildings with cladding similar to that used in Grenfell Tower has seen local authorities send samples for independent tests.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said 14 residential high-rise buildings in nine local authority areas have now been found with cladding that raises safety concerns.

At the scene



Alex Regan, BBC News

As the sun set on Swiss Cottage, there was frustration among residents of the Chalcots estate.

With tower blocks being evacuated, the streets were teeming with neighbours, children, and cameramen.

Camden Council employees wearing hi-viz vests stood outside the Taplow tower, speaking to residents.

Some of them only realised their homes were being evacuated after hearing news reports.

Most were not in the mood to talk. One woman shouted angrily at a TV cameraman: "Can you tell me what's going on?"

Camden flats: Hundreds of homes evacuated over fire risk fears - BBC News


Tests on 600 tower blocks find seven with Grenfell Tower-style cladding

PM says urgent tests on buildings are taking place across England in wake of disaster to see if cladding is flammable


Theresa May makes her statement on Grenfell Tower in the House of Commons. Photograph: PA

Peter Walker and Robert Booth
Thursday 22 June 2017
The Guardian

Tests being carried out on high-rise council buildings in England have so far uncovered seven blocks of flats fitted with combustible cladding similar to that used on Grenfell Tower in west London.

The buildings are spread across four councils in England, Downing Street has said.

The government has ordered tests of the cladding on 600 high-rise blocks in all. It is not known how many of these have been so far carried out.

A No 10 spokeswoman said: “Failing this test does not necessarily mean that your building may be declared unsafe.

“It will be subject to further testing that is undertaken by the fire services to do that and if that is the case then we will be obviously working with local authorities and the landlords to make sure that nobody stays in a building that’s proved to be unsafe.”

It comes after Theresa May told parliament that urgent tests were taking place around Britain to see how many tower blocks might be at risk following the devastating fire in north Kensington.

Making a statement to the Commons about the fire last week in which at least 79 people died, the prime minister said initial test results had shown other blocks had seemingly used flammable cladding.

Speaking after May’s statement, a No 10 spokeswoman said that after councils were told to provide the government with details of cladding, a “small number” of samples were tested, and at that time three of these were found to be combustible.

The Department for Communities and Local Government was coordinating the process and facilities to allow 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding,” she said. “We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

The DCLG later clarified that the 600 figure referred to high buildings with any form of cladding, not necessarily the aluminium composite material panels used on Grenfell Tower.

“The situation is that 600 buildings have cladding – it is not similar, it is all types of cladding. Of these 600, we want landlords to check if they have ACM cladding. Of those 600, some of those would have ACM; we want to test them to see if they have ACM,” a DCLG spokesman said.

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure buildings were safe, or residents would be rehoused.

“Obviously nobody will be living in buildings that are unsafe. They will be rehoused if they need to be and landlords will be asked to provide alternative accommodation where that’s possible,” the No 10 spokeswoman said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-fire-says-may
 
tay
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

With police saying they still fear the Grenfell Tower Disaster number of dead is significantly higher than the current known 79....

Camden flats: Hundreds of homes evacuated over fire risk fears


BBC News
24 June 2017



More than 700 flats in tower blocks on an estate in the Swiss Cottage area of north-west London have been evacuated because of fire safety concerns.

Camden Council said people in four towers on the Chalcots estate were moved for "urgent fire safety works".

The council added it was booking hotels but around 100 residents have spent the night on air beds in a leisure centre.

The estate's cladding is similar to Grenfell Tower in west London, where a fire is feared to have killed at least 79.

Chalcots was refurbished between 2006 and 2009 by the same firm, Rydon, that oversaw work at Grenfell Tower in 2015-16.

Camden Council said it will remove external thermal cladding from five tower blocks on the Chalcots estate.

It also said there were concerns about the insulation of gas pipes going into flats, and fire doors.

The council initially announced the evacuation of one tower block, Taplow, but later extended the move to all five tower blocks it had checked.

In the early hours of Saturday morning, the council then announced that one of the five - Blashford - did not need to be evacuated, and residents could return.

Blashford is smaller and has "several different design elements".


Air beds laid out in Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre

Residents of the estate attended a public meeting with council officials on Thursday evening.

The council's Labour leader, Georgia Gould, said the decision to evacuate the buildings was made at 18:30 BST on Friday.

She said the fire service "told us they could not guarantee our residents' safety in those blocks".

Some residents said the first they heard of the evacuation was on the news.

The council has secured 270 hotel rooms so far. Emergency accommodation was set up at Swiss Cottage Leisure Centre and at the Camden Centre in King's Cross.

"We're encouraging all residents to stay with friends and family if they can, otherwise we'll provide accommodation," the council said.

"I know it's difficult, but Grenfell changes everything and I just don't believe we can take any risk with our residents' safety and I have to put them first," Ms Gould said.

She said the work is expected to take three to four weeks. Residents will be allowed in at the weekend to collect more possessions under escort from the fire brigade.

Prime Minister Theresa May tweeted: "My thoughts are with residents being evacuated in Camden while their homes are made safe tonight."



She said the government was "offering every support we can" to residents and officials working at the estate.

Teacher Kim Price, who lives in Blashford tower with her 14-year-old son, said: "At 4pm today they said it would be okay and that all the checks were fine.

"And now all of a sudden the news is saying we should get out.

"We've had two letters in two days saying 'you're not safe' then 'you're safe'. I don't really know what to do."

Edward Strange, who lives in an 11th floor flat with his wife and young daughter, said the evacuation was a "complete overreaction".

He told the BBC there had been two previous fires in the block which were easily contained.

"I've got a young daughter, a wife and a cat. I've also got a job. They said it'd take four to six weeks. If the council says four to six weeks it'll take four to six months."

Among those evacuated was Peter Bertram, 94, who has lived on the estate for 46 years.

The former RAF airman, who served in World War Two, said having to leave his home at short notice was a "shock".

"My neighbour told me 'Get this and that'. It happened so quick, I don't have the energy for that now. It's an experience."

Bob O'Toole, chair of Chalcots Estate residents' association, told BBC Breakfast that contractors had been working overnight in several of the tower blocks.

"A lot of people are annoyed because of the way [the evacuation] was done. They're saying it was left too late in the evening. But Camden Council didn't get the information till late, and they acted on that as quickly as possible."


83 residents refuse to leave the estate in the London Borough of Camden



Communities Secretary Sajid Javid said other areas, such as Plymouth and Manchester, had seen measures introduced such as 24-hour fire wardens and did not need evacuating.

"What was very different here is that the local fire service found multiple other failures in fire safety that should have already been in place in the towers, and as a result of that, they've made this quite correct decision."

Mr Javid also said the government would "work with" any local authorities and housing associations that needed financial support to carry out necessary fire safety work in tower blocks.

"Public safety is absolutely paramount, you cannot put a price on people's lives. So local authorities have to do whatever it takes to get their buildings safe."


The estate underwent a £66m refurbishment


Samples from the tower blocks on the Chalcots estate were examined this week

Rebecca Long-Bailey, the Shadow Business Secretary, said people who were in towers where cladding was being investigated would be "living in fear".

"I've had hundreds of constituents contacting my office over the last week, asking whether the buildings they're living in are safe.

"People need to give significant weight to the voice of residents, and if they do want to be moved, if they feel unsafe and haven't been reassured, then provision should be put in place [to move them]."

Camden Council agreed a contract with Rydon Construction to refurbish the Chalcots estate in May 2006 at a cost of £66m.

The work took more than three and a half years. Five towers received new cladding, and 711 flats were modernised with new wiring, heating, kitchens and bathrooms.

Friday night's announcement came as the Metropolitan Police said the Grenfell Tower fire started in a fridge-freezer, and outside cladding and insulation failed safety tests.

A national operation to identify buildings with cladding similar to that used in Grenfell Tower has seen local authorities send samples for independent tests.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said 14 residential high-rise buildings in nine local authority areas have now been found with cladding that raises safety concerns.

At the scene



Alex Regan, BBC News

As the sun set on Swiss Cottage, there was frustration among residents of the Chalcots estate.

With tower blocks being evacuated, the streets were teeming with neighbours, children, and cameramen.

Camden Council employees wearing hi-viz vests stood outside the Taplow tower, speaking to residents.

Some of them only realised their homes were being evacuated after hearing news reports.

Most were not in the mood to talk. One woman shouted angrily at a TV cameraman: "Can you tell me what's going on?"

Camden flats: Hundreds of homes evacuated over fire risk fears - BBC News


Tests on 600 tower blocks find seven with Grenfell Tower-style cladding

PM says urgent tests on buildings are taking place across England in wake of disaster to see if cladding is flammable


Theresa May makes her statement on Grenfell Tower in the House of Commons. Photograph: PA

Peter Walker and Robert Booth
Thursday 22 June 2017
The Guardian

Tests being carried out on high-rise council buildings in England have so far uncovered seven blocks of flats fitted with combustible cladding similar to that used on Grenfell Tower in west London.

The buildings are spread across four councils in England, Downing Street has said.

The government has ordered tests of the cladding on 600 high-rise blocks in all. It is not known how many of these have been so far carried out.

A No 10 spokeswoman said: “Failing this test does not necessarily mean that your building may be declared unsafe.

“It will be subject to further testing that is undertaken by the fire services to do that and if that is the case then we will be obviously working with local authorities and the landlords to make sure that nobody stays in a building that’s proved to be unsafe.”

It comes after Theresa May told parliament that urgent tests were taking place around Britain to see how many tower blocks might be at risk following the devastating fire in north Kensington.

Making a statement to the Commons about the fire last week in which at least 79 people died, the prime minister said initial test results had shown other blocks had seemingly used flammable cladding.

Speaking after May’s statement, a No 10 spokeswoman said that after councils were told to provide the government with details of cladding, a “small number” of samples were tested, and at that time three of these were found to be combustible.

The Department for Communities and Local Government was coordinating the process and facilities to allow 100 samples a day to be tested, the spokeswoman said.

“In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding,” she said. “We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that.”

The DCLG later clarified that the 600 figure referred to high buildings with any form of cladding, not necessarily the aluminium composite material panels used on Grenfell Tower.

“The situation is that 600 buildings have cladding – it is not similar, it is all types of cladding. Of these 600, we want landlords to check if they have ACM cladding. Of those 600, some of those would have ACM; we want to test them to see if they have ACM,” a DCLG spokesman said.

In blocks where the cladding was found to be combustible further tests would be done to ensure buildings were safe, or residents would be rehoused.

“Obviously nobody will be living in buildings that are unsafe. They will be rehoused if they need to be and landlords will be asked to provide alternative accommodation where that’s possible,” the No 10 spokeswoman said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-fire-says-may




 
justlooking
#125
Tens of millions wasted for the cladding, thanks to global warming hysteria.

Tens of billions will be wasted to 'fix' the problem.
 
Blackleaf
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by justlooking View Post

Tens of millions wasted for the cladding, thanks to global warming hysteria.

Tens of billions will be wasted to 'fix' the problem.

Thanks to EU energy-saving regulations.
 
Murphy
#127
The Brits are so moronic.
 
Curious Cdn
#128
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

Thanks to EU energy-saving regulations.

... maybe, thanks to the 220V wall current that you Brits insist on using. The fire was started from appliance wiring ... "Hot Point" indeed.
 
Blackleaf
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

... maybe, thanks to the 220V wall current that you Brits insist on using. The fire was started from appliance wiring ... "Hot Point" indeed.

The Hotpoint fridge - model number FF175BP - which started the fire is obviously faulty. Nothing to do with the 230 V (not 220V) mains electricity. 220 V and 230 V are pretty standard around the world. It's just that Canada and America's 120 V is unusually low.
 
Curious Cdn
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

The Hotpoint fridge - model number FF175BP - which started the fire is obviously faulty. Nothing to do with the 230 V (not 220V) mains electricity. 220 V and 230 V are pretty standard around the world. It's just that Canada and America's 120 V is unusually low.

You mean, where AC generation originated, was invented, developed and where the first grids were connected, we use lower voltages. When Britain finally got electricity, you did a "funny" with it and got it wrong (surprise, surprise)
 
tay
+1
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by justlooking View Post

Tens of millions wasted for the cladding, thanks to global warming hysteria.

Tens of billions will be wasted to 'fix' the problem.

The 'insulated cladding' was not installed because of global warming but to cut down on the cost to taxpayers of heating the building and to improve the visual appeal of the buildings because the sight of them apparently offended the Tory voters.

Of course without regulations, (due to the cost to taxpayers) that would have allowed the governmental authorities to have enough Inspectors to oversee what shortcuts the Capitalists were using to maximize profits off of the taxpayers..

Now those same taxpayers who voted for a party to save them millions by cutting 'red tape' will pay billions for their shortsightedness.......
 
Blackleaf
#132
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

The 'insulated cladding' was not installed because of global warming but to cut down on the cost to taxpayers of heating the building and to improve the visual appeal of the buildings because the sight of them apparently offended the Tory voters.

Of course without regulations, (due to the cost to taxpayers) that would have allowed the governmental authorities to have enough Inspectors to oversee what shortcuts the Capitalists were using to maximize profits off of the taxpayers..

Now those same taxpayers who voted for a party to save them millions by cutting 'red tape' will pay billions for their shortsightedness.......

EU regulations set out rules for buildings’ energy consumption with Britain signed up to the 2010 Energy Performance of Buildings Directive.

Under the directive, the UK is required to report to the European Commission on progress towards national energy efficiency targets each year.

Article 24 of the directive was cemented into UK law in April 2014 and a Government report says “bringing as many residential and commercial buildings as possible up to a high level of energy performance is a priority for the UK Government”.

Cladding is often used to improve energy efficiency and it is thought there could be up to 30,000 buildings in the UK fitted with similar cladding to that used on Grenfell Tower.

Foam boards coated in zinc rainproof sheets were spaced across the 24-storey building as part of the refurbishment.

The building’s design and access statement says: “The over-cladding works are an integral part of the upgrade to the heating of the building, while also being a complete overhaul to its appearance.”

Experts say the foam panel helped spread the fire quickly with the gap between the cladding and building acting as a chimney.

Express.co.uk asked Geoff Wilkinson, MD of Wilkinson Construction Consultants, if EU laws on improving energy efficiency have any impact on building renovations in the UK.

He said: “In short yes the laws did - there is not currently a requirement to retrofit insulation but if you reroof or re-clad a building you are required to upgrade insulation providing it's technically and economically possible to do so.”

Here's The Real Reason Americans Don't Get Irony - Business Insider
 
taxslave
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by HarperCons View Post

I'm right, you're senile.


Capitalists building free housing? What? That's very anti-capitalist to help people in need, without profiting off their suffering.

Next you will defend white slave owners for treating their black slaves with a modicum of decency.

You don't think the worthless culls would get out of the bar long enough to build social housing themselves do you?

Quote: Originally Posted by HarperCons View Post

People on welfare contribute more to society than the ultra wealthy.

ROFLMAO. WHere do you think the money comes from for their welfare comes from.

Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

The 'insulated cladding' was not installed because of global warming but to cut down on the cost to taxpayers of heating the building and to improve the visual appeal of the buildings because the sight of them apparently offended the Tory voters.

Of course without regulations, (due to the cost to taxpayers) that would have allowed the governmental authorities to have enough Inspectors to oversee what shortcuts the Capitalists were using to maximize profits off of the taxpayers..

Now those same taxpayers who voted for a party to save them millions by cutting 'red tape' will pay billions for their shortsightedness.......

The fault lies solely with the city building inspection and planing department. It is up to them to approve construction and renovations.

Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

You mean, where AC generation originated, was invented, developed and where the first grids were connected, we use lower voltages. When Britain finally got electricity, you did a "funny" with it and got it wrong (surprise, surprise)

The reason we use 110 volt is because electricity is cheap in NA. Using 220-30 volt uses half the amperage which is what you pay for. Also means you can use smaller wire because of the lower amperage which makes construction somewhat less expensive.
 
MHz
#134
What cladding with foam made from oil doesn't burn??
 
spaminator
#135
Police consider manslaughter charges over Grenfell Tower fire | Grenfell Tower |
 
tay
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

EU regulations set out rules for buildings’ energy consumption with Britain signed up to the 2010 Energy Performance of Buildings Directive.

Under the directive, the UK is required to report to the European Commission on progress towards national energy efficiency targets each year.
Express.co.uk asked Geoff Wilkinson, MD of Wilkinson Construction Consultants, if EU laws on improving energy efficiency have any impact on building renovations in the UK.

He said: “In short yes the laws did - there is not currently a requirement to retrofit insulation but if you reroof or re-clad a building you are required to upgrade insulation providing it's technically and economically possible to do so.”

Here's The Real Reason Americans Don't Get Irony - Business Insider


This type of cladding is banned by the EU so if they had of abided by the EU regulations there would have been no fire......


Six emails sent by and to an Arconic Inc sales manager raise questions about why the company supplied combustible cladding to a distributor for use at Grenfell Tower, despite publicly warning such panels were a fire risk for tall buildings. The emails, dating from 2014 and seen by Reuters, were between Deborah French, Arconic's UK sales manager, and executives at the contractors involved in the bidding process for the refurbishment contract at Grenfell Tower in London, where 79 people died in a blaze last week.

When asked about the emails, Arconic said in a statement that it had known the panels would be used at Grenfell Tower but that it was not its role to decide what was or was not compliant with local building regulations.

The company manufactures three main types of Reynobond panel-- one with a polyethylene (PE) core, one with a fire retardant core and another with a non-combustible core, according to its website.

Diagrams in a 2016 Arconic brochure for its Reynobond panels describe how PE core panels are suitable up to 10 meters in height. Panels with a fire resistant core -- the FR model -- can be used up to 30 meters, while above that height, panels with the non-combustible core -- the A2 model -- should be used, the brochure says.

Grenfell Tower is more than 60 meters tall.

The brochure also issued a blunt warning that cladding can be a fire risk.

"When conceiving a building, it is crucial to choose the adapted products in order to avoid the fire to spread to the whole building. Especially when it comes to facades and roofs, the fire can spread extremely rapidly," the brochure said.

"As soon as the building is higher than the fire fighters’ ladders, it has to be conceived with an incombustible material." Nonetheless, between May and July 2014, French, who was based at Arconic's factory in Merxheim, France, responded to requests from the companies involved in refurbishing Grenfell Tower on the availability of samples of five different types of Reynobond aluminum-covered panels, all of which were only available in the combustible PE and FR versions, according to Arconic brochures.

In the end, Arconic said on Friday, the company provided PE panels. "While we publish general usage guidelines, regulations and codes vary by country and need to be determined by the local building code experts," the company said in an emailed statement in response to the Reuters enquiry.

"The loss of lives, injuries and destruction following the Grenfell Tower fire are devastating, and we would like to express our deepest sympathies to everyone affected by this tragedy ... We will fully support the authorities as they investigate this tragedy," the statement said.

French did not respond to requests for comment.

Arconic, which was known as Alcoa Inc until 2016, declined to say if it knew how tall the tower was and the emails seen by Reuters do not specifically refer to its height. They do, however, refer to "Grenfell Tower" and mention other high rise projects where paneling has been used when discussing the appearance that was being sought for Grenfell Tower.

Arconic also knew the quantity of panels being supplied and thus the total exterior coverage. A source at one of the companies involved in the process said Arconic had "full involvement" throughout the contract bidding process.

Omnis Exteriors, which cut the Arconic tiles to shape and supplied them to the cladding contractor, said it was not responsible for the choice of panel.

"CEP played no part in the selection of Reynobond PE and simply fulfilled the order as directed by the design and build team," the company said in a statement on Saturday, referring to CEP Architectural Facades Ltd, the Omnis unit which fulfilled the contract.

Harley Facades Ltd., the company which installed the panels, Rydon Group, the overall contractor on the 2014-2016 Grenfell refurbishment, and the local authority, the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, which owns the tower block all declined to comment.

Rydon previously said in a statement that its work on the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, which was intended to give the building better heat and sound insulation, complied with all building regulations. Harley said last week it was "not aware of any link between the fire and the exterior cladding to the tower".

In the emails, French and representatives of Harley and Rydon also discuss the choice of panel models and colors and how they were inching towards securing the contract with the local authority.

Harris did not respond to requests for comment.

On Sunday, British finance minister Philip Hammond said the type of panels used, which are cheaper than non-combustible panels, were banned for use in high rise buildings in Britain, as they are in Europe and the United States.

Omnis said combustible Reynobond PE material was safe to use on high rise buildings if the insulation material usually put behind the panels was made of incombustible material such as mineral fiber. Some safety experts say the regulations are not black and white.

The UK uses a 'principles-based' approach to regulation which puts an onus on companies to operate safely, based on common understanding of risks and the technology available.

This differs to the highly specific 'rules-based' approach to regulation taken in the United States.

Supporters of the principles-based approach say it avoids the emergence of loopholes and means companies have to take account of new information on risks immediately, rather than wait for a new regulation to be drafted.

Arconic knowingly supplied flammable panels for use in tower: emails | Reuters
 
Blackleaf
#137
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

This type of cladding is banned by the EU

No, it isn't.

Quote:

so if they had of abided by the EU regulations there would have been no fire......

Can you show me the relevant EU regulations?
 
tay
#138
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

No, it isn't.

Can you show me the relevant EU regulations?

I can't show you the specific Regulation but if you can't believe a Tory, who can you believe.....?


On Sunday, British finance minister Philip Hammond said the type of panels used, which are cheaper than non-combustible panels, were banned for use in high rise buildings in Britain, as they are in Europe and the United States.
 
Blackleaf
#139
Quote: Originally Posted by tay View Post

I can't show you the specific Regulation but if you can't believe a Tory, who can you believe.....?


On Sunday, British finance minister Philip Hammond said the type of panels used, which are cheaper than non-combustible panels, were banned for use in high rise buildings in Britain, as they are in Europe and the United States.

There's a difference between Europe and the EU.
 
Curious Cdn
#140
One of them includes Britain.
 
tay
+1
#141
Why Grenfell Tower Burned: Regulators Put Cost Before Safety



Promising to cut “red tape,” business-friendly politicians evidently judged that cost concerns outweighed the risks of allowing flammable materials to be used in facades.

For years, members of Parliament had written letters requesting new restrictions on cladding, especially as the same flammable facades were blamed for fires in Britain, France, the United Arab Emirates, Australia and elsewhere. Yet British authorities resisted new rules. A top building regulator explained to a coroner in 2013 that requiring only noncombustible exteriors in residential towers “limits your choice of materials quite significantly.”

Fire safety experts said the blaze at Grenfell Tower was a catastrophe that could have been avoided, if warnings had been heeded.

The firefighters and engineers warned Parliament that British codes required only that the aluminum used in cladding resist ignition, even though the heat of a fire would breach the surface and expose the flammable material inside. Nor did the British rules require a test to evaluate risks in real-world conditions.

“If the cladding cannot resist the spread of flame across the surface, then it will vertically envelop the building,” Mr. Evans warned, in testimony that now seems prophetic. “In other words, the fire will spread to the outside of the building, and it will go vertically.” Many other fire safety experts would repeat those concerns in the following years.

But manufacturers argued against new tests or rules. Using fire-resistant materials was more expensive, a cost that industry advocates opposed.

In 2014, the Fire Protection Research Foundation, an organization in the United States, counted 20 major high-rise fires involving cladding. In at least a half-dozen — in France, Dubai, South Korea, the United States and elsewhere — the same type of panels installed at Grenfell Tower caught fire. A 2014 fire in Melbourne, Australia, resulted in multiple investigations into the dangers of combustible cladding. Another fire broke out in Dubai, around a 60-story skyscraper, on New Year’s Eve of 2015, and yet another, around a 70-story skyscraper there, this April.

But in Britain, still no changes were made. “The construction industry appears to be stronger and more powerful than the safety lobby,” said Ronnie King, a former fire chief who advises the parliamentary fire safety group. “Their voice is louder.”

Business-friendly governments in Britain campaigned to pare back regulations. A 2005 law known as the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order ended a requirement for government inspectors to certify that buildings had met fire codes, and shifted instead to a system of self-policing. Governments adopted slogans calling for the elimination of at least one regulation for each new one that was imposed, and the authorities in charge of fire safety took this to heart.

“If you think more fire protection would be good for U.K. business, then you should be making the case to the business community, not the government,” Brian Martin, the top civil servant in charge of drafting building-safety guidelines, told an industry conference in 2011, quoting the fire minister then, Bob Neill. (“Should we be looking to regulate further? ‘No’ would be my answer,’” Mr. Neill added.)

Mr. Martin, a former surveyor for large-scale commercial projects like the Canary Wharf, told his audience to expect few new regulations because the prime minister at the time, David Cameron, wanted to greatly reduce the burden on industry, according to a report by the conference organizers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/w...fire.html?_r=0
 
MHz
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

No, it isn't.

Can you show me the relevant EU regulations?

Why isn't it put on the inside where it won't be catching fire like that in the first place?
The outside is more for show than performance anyway, please don't make me have to explain that concept for you.

How much did the sale value of said tower go up with the modifications and who supplied the funding for said renovation?? (before it became a crime scene, places have a tendency to lose value with things like that)

Crime scene in that the fire could have been deliberately set and the cladding part was not part of the plan. That is based on the timing of this new contract that will see new housing development take place close by and then the towers would have been demolished and new buildings put up that would be for the same type of clients. When was this deal set up as it didn't go from scratch after the fire took place.

Cheaper material while getting paid premium price is a crime that is now a wrongful death suit due to convictions along the lines of gross criminal misconduct. That is not a slap on the wrist charge.

Grenfell Tower renovation company to get £65million housing contract | Metro News
Ealing is the neighbouring borough to Kensington and Chelsea, where Grenfell Tower near Latimer Road tragically went up in flames.
The lucrative deal will see the contractor finance, develop and submit a planning application for the new development, which will be situated just miles from where last week’s atrocity unfolded.
They will then demolish the area’s existing estate, before replacing it with mixed-tenure housing. The majority of homes in the development will apparently be ‘affordable’.



Don't you just love the way companies scramble to cover their own asses and pass the buck, one that never seems to land squarely. The Govt Inspectors are supposed to be the experts that the experts consult with to verify that things are done in a certain way. Obviously these inspectors were on the take and all other structures they have signed off on should be thoroughly inspected.

This link has some names of inspectors, etc.
Grenfell Tower fire: Block renovations 'inspected 16 times' before fatal blaze | The Independent
 
spaminator
#143
34 U.K. high-rises have unsafe siding: Officials | World | News | Toronto Sun
 
tay
#144
The 1984 Documentary That Predicted Grenfell Tower


www.youtube.com/watch?v=upViHb8z4wY
 
MHz
#145
[QUOTE=tay;2474407]The 1984 Documentary That Predicted Grenfell Tower


www.youtube.com/watch?v=upViHb8z4wY[/QUOTE

[XXyoutube] part after the equal sign [XX/youtube] will fix your link.

Eliminate the 'X's"
 
MHz
#146
https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170...k-fire-safety/
Two weeks after the Grenfell Tower fire, the advice from London Fire Brigade remains for tower block residents to stay in their apartments in the event of a blaze. The same advice led to six deaths at Lakanal House in Southwark in 2009, and more than 7It emerged after the Grenfell Tower fire that many residents had been told to stay inside their flats and by the time they tried to evacuate it was too late.

But London Fire Brigade is sticking to its advice to "stay put."
"Purpose-built maisonettes or blocks of flats are built to give you some protection from fire. Walls, floors and doors can hold back flames and smoke for 30 to 60 minutes. You are usually safer staying put and calling 999," London Fire Brigade says on its website.
WATCH: Here's what to do if there is a fire in another part of the building & you're not affected by fire or smoke https://t.co/n3KPUIkEwV pic.twitter.com/rJGuvTli4r
— London Fire Brigade (@LondonFire) June 28, 2017
That advice is being echoed by fire services around the country, including the West Midlands.
"I think it's crazy advice to advise people to stay in a burning building rather than evacuating as soon as possible, cladding or no cladding. The Grenfell Tower disaster has exposed the many issues regarding the safety of tower blocks and most people living in them now see themselves as living in death-traps, myself included," Millie Langton, who lives in a tower block in Birmingham, told Sputnik.
(in part)


120 blocks at risk of fire in – 480 blocks yet to be tested | Alternative News Alert
At least 120 council-owned tower blocks across 37 local authorities have found to be fitted with similar combustible cladding to that used on Grenfell Tower, it has emerged.
Theresa May announced 100 per cent of cladding samples submitted following the north Kensington fire had failed testing and urged local authorities to “work on the assumption” that cladding samples would fail safety tests.
Speaking at Prime Minister’s Questions, Ms May said: “Given the 100 per cent failure rate, [local authorities] should not wait for test results.”
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn urged the Prime Minister to give a “categorical” answer on whether cladding with a combustible core, which was used on Grenfell Tower, was illegal.
Ms May replied: “The situation is, in relation to the cladding, that the building regulations identify the cladding which is compatible with the building regulations and that which is non-compliant with those building regulations.
(in part)



9 deaths at Grenfell Tower.
 
MHz
#147
Aluminum burns does it while zinc does not, wtf??? Where are the details on the different panels tested ot was one type tested many times and it failed every-time?

Renovators at UK Blaze Tower Were Asked to Cut Costs
Contractors working on the renovation of London's Grenfell Tower were asked by the building's managers to reduce costs, with cheaper exterior cladding suggested as one alternative, The Times reported Friday.
At least 80 people were killed in the blaze that consumed the tower this month, with the cladding blamed for spreading the fire throughout the 24-floor block.
An "urgent nudge email" sent to contractor Artelia UK from the Kensington and Chelsea tenant management organisation (KCTMO), which runs the tower block on behalf of the local council, said that "we need good costs" for council deputy leader Rock Feilding-Mellen.
One suggestion was the use of aluminium panels instead of zinc, which is more fire-resistant, leading to a "saving of £293,368".
Retired judge Martin Moore-Bick was on Thursday appointed to lead a public inquiry into the fire, which engulfed Grenfell Tower on June 14.
Residents have expressed anger at the authorities' handling of the fire, leading protesters on June 16 to storm the town hall which manages the social housing block, though there is no suggestion that fire safety concerns were ignored.
Victims identified so far include a six-month-old baby, her eight-year-old sister and their parents, who lived on the 20th floor.
The baby was found in her dead mother's arms.
As part of an emergency fund, the government announced this month that each household whose home was destroyed would receive at least £5,500 ($7,140, 6,250 euros).
Checks are under way at hundreds of high-rises in Britain fitted with the same cladding which encased Grenfell Tower.
So far all 137 buildings tested have failed the fire safety checks.
The Kensington and Chelsea Council on Thursday failed in a bid to bar journalists from the first meeting of councillors since the disaster, and instead adjourned the meeting early.
Theresa May's Downing Street criticised the aborted meeting, saying: "The High Court ruled that the meeting should be open and we would have expected the council to respect that."
 
TenPenny
#148
The testing being done is pretty much completely useless.


The panels are filled with foam insulation; depending on which version it was, it is 'fireproof' or not. It appears that the version used is not fireproof. But that really doesn't matter, because the air gap behind the panels acted as a chimney. The original fire was in a refrigerator, but the issue is that the exhaust fan for the flat provided a great feed for hot gases to go out and into the airgap behind the new insulating panels. With the chimney effect, the hot gases zoomed up the building, and the foam insulation didn't burn, it gasified, and then the gases burned. NONE of the tests being done on the panels replicate this effect.


It was a horrible design, poorly implemented, with improper products.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#149
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post



It was a horrible design, poorly implemented, with improper products.

Woulda been easier just to say "it was British."
 
Curious Cdn
#150
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Woulda been easier just to say "it was British."

Don't they call those "Council cookers"?