Idle No More -Where is the Leadership?


Goober
#1
Idle No More -Where is the Leadership?

If you set up a movement you cannot walk away from responsibility when it takes a direction that you are against. Any movement without direction can be hijacked by those with other agendas.

And Yes that will entail upsetting some people. Goes with the Job.

Time for the Founders to step up to the plate and lead.

Updated
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...am-130114.html
Idle No More is the face of all indigenous people, all grassroots people," Sylvia McAdam said Monday, following a forum with university students in Regina. "It's not just the face of one. We hardly have any communications with Chief Spence."

Spence has been limiting her food intake since Dec. 10, consuming only fish broth, water and medicinal tea in an effort to force a meeting attended by both Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Gov. Gen. David Johnston to address First Nations issues.

The Idle No More campaign originated on social media, first on Facebook and later with Twitter, when Sylvia McAdam, Nina Wilson, Sheelah Mclean and Jessica Gordon expressed concern about provisions of Bill C-45, which reduce the number of federally protected waterways.

"We're going to get off the couch and we're not going to be idle any more," McAdam said about the nascent idea behind the movement. "And we said, 'Why don't we just call it Idle No More?' And it just stuck."
Global Regina | Idle No More co-founder distances movement from planned blockades
Idle No More’s co-founder is distancing the movement from Wednesday’s planned First Nations blockades and from Chief Theresa Spence, saying the grassroots movement is so far hosting only “peaceful” education events and has no leader.

Sylvia McAdam, one of the movement’s four originators, stressed in an interview with the National Post that chiefs — not Idle No More co-founders — are behind Wednesday’s planned blockades along a key southern Ontario highway and a peaceful march near the busy bridge to Michigan.

Those kinds of highly disruptive protests, Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Chris Lewis warned in a YouTube video released Tuesday, highlight the reality that First Nations demonstrators “have the ability to paralyze” this country by shutting down travel and trade routes — an approach Ms. McAdam said she does not endorse, at least not now.

“A lot of our children and elders are involved in the [Idle No More] activities, so their safety is our priority,” she said. “If you have an impromptu blockade that doesn’t follow the legal permits, then you’re irritating the public and that’s not the purpose behind Idle No More.”

The purpose, she said, is to educate Canadians about indigenous sovereignty and treaty rights, although she acknowledged that the movement has already spiraled to include so many other causes that it risks diluting its core message.
Last edited by Goober; Jan 16th, 2013 at 06:48 PM..
 
Trex
#2
The leadeship is:
Dr.Pam Palmater PhD, LLB. Department head of Centre for Indigenous Governance.
Activist and politician.
Runner up to Shaun Atleo for Grand Chief.
One of the founders of and spokesperson for INM.
And she knows exactly what she is doing regarding Idle.
Bring down Shaun Atleo and forment revolution and discord in Canada.
 
Goober
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

The leadeship is:
Dr.Pam Palmater PhD, LLB. Department head of Centre for Indigenous Governance.
Activist and politician.
Runner up to Shaun Atleo for Grand Chief.
One of the founders of and spokesperson for INM.
And she knows exactly what she is doing regarding Idle.
Bring down Shaun Atleo and forment revolution and discord in Canada.

I know who Pam is and well aware of her agenda. Do you have a link stating that she is one of the founders.
 
darkbeaver
#4
"Foment revolution and discord in Canada" finally someone willing to act. If we could only raise hell the same way with people who's spellings suck.

Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

forment revolution and discord in Canada.

Look up there
 
Trex
+3
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

"Foment revolution and discord in Canada" finally someone willing to act. If we could only raise hell the same way with people who's spellings suck.



Look up there

Gee thanks beave
BTW its whose
 
Goober
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

The leadeship is:
Dr.Pam Palmater PhD, LLB. Department head of Centre for Indigenous Governance.
Activist and politician.
Runner up to Shaun Atleo for Grand Chief.
One of the founders of and spokesperson for INM.
And she knows exactly what she is doing regarding Idle.
Bring down Shaun Atleo and forment revolution and discord in Canada.

I updated the OP- Lists the Founders by name and how it originated. Your post is false and I am being polite.
 
Trex
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

I updated the OP- Lists the Founders by name and how it originated. Your post is false and I am being polite.

Actually no I am not in errror.
I am well aware who the 4 original founders are.
But Palmater often gets quoted as an original founder.
She also gets quoted as the the official spokesperson of Idle ,Quote Canada Politics: "Idle No More spokesperson calls leak of Attawapiskat audit ‘political’.
If you know all about Palmater you know she is controlling the agenda on this movment and manipulating it for her own political ends.
Tell me who gets all the coverage on Idle via the media?
 
Goober
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

Actually no I am not in errror.
I am well aware who the 4 original founders are.
But Palmater often gets quoted as an original founder.
She also gets quoted as the the official spokesperson of Idle ,Quote Canada Politics: "Idle No More spokesperson calls leak of Attawapiskat audit ‘political’.
If you know all about Palmater you know she is controlling the agenda on this movment and manipulating it for her own political ends.
Tell me who gets all the coverage on Idle via the media?

Give me the Links where she is speaking on behalf of IDNM.
Many are speaking and claim they are speaking in the name or the purpose of IDNM. And it is BS.
Reason why the Founders have to step up.
As to the Media - they go with whatever excites -
 
SLM
+1
#9
According to the Idle No More official website:

History of Idle No More Grassroots Movement

Written by Jessica Gordon(7 votes)


Idle No More began with 4 ladies; Nina Wilson, Sylvia McAdam, Jessica Gordon & Sheelah McLean who felt it was urgent to act on current and upcoming legislation that not only affects our First Nations people but the rest of Canada's citizens, lands and waters.
The focus is on grassroots voices, treaty and sovereignty, it began in the early part of October when discussing Bill C 45. All 4 women knew that this was a time to act, as this bill and other proposed legislation would affect not only Indigenous people but also the lands, water and the rest of Canada.
With the focus on the most urgent bill knowing it would initiate attention to all other legislation, the 4 ladies held rallies and teach-ins to generate discussion and provide information. They then decided a nation wide event was garnered so all could participate, thus, The National Day of Solidarity & Resurgence was called for December 10th, 2012, to oppose all legislation and to build solidarity while asserting inherent rights and nationhood while protecting our lands for all people.
These colonial forms of legislation that the government expects to unilaterally impose on us has brought us together, to stand together - Jessica Gordon


The Official Idle No More Website - History of Idle No More Grassroots Movement

Is it worth arguing over?
Last edited by SLM; Jan 16th, 2013 at 07:19 PM..
 
Cliffy
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Give me the Links where she is speaking on behalf of IDNM.
Many are speaking and claim they are speaking in the name or the purpose of IDNM. And it is BS.
Reason why the Founders have to step up.
As to the Media - they go with whatever excites -

I think the media has as much of an agenda in misrepresenting the movement as Palmater has. You will notice that very little has been reported about the lifting of protection of our lakes and water ways, probably to appease the Chinese and their takeover of our resource "development". Part of the reason for the changes in the waters act is the Northern Pipeline where so much potential for environmental disaster lies.
 
Goober
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Accordning to the Idle No More official website:

History of Idle No More Grassroots Movement

Written by Jessica Gordon(7 votes)


Idle No More began with 4 ladies; Nina Wilson, Sylvia McAdam, Jessica Gordon & Sheelah McLean who felt it was urgent to act on current and upcoming legislation that not only affects our First Nations people but the rest of Canada's citizens, lands and waters.
The focus is on grassroots voices, treaty and sovereignty, it began in the early part of October when discussing Bill C 45. All 4 women knew that this was a time to act, as this bill and other proposed legislation would affect not only Indigenous people but also the lands, water and the rest of Canada.
With the focus on the most urgent bill knowing it would initiate attention to all other legislation, the 4 ladies held rallies and teach-ins to generate discussion and provide information. They then decided a nation wide event was garnered so all could participate, thus, The National Day of Solidarity & Resurgence was called for December 10th, 2012, to oppose all legislation and to build solidarity while asserting inherent rights and nationhood while protecting our lands for all people.
These colonial forms of legislation that the government expects to unilaterally impose on us has brought us together, to stand together - Jessica Gordon


The Official Idle No More Website - History of Idle No More Grassroots Movement

Is it worth arguing over?

Yes- It takes away from the intent of IDNM and Pam the loser in the last election has an agenda. So if people believe that she is a leader they will arrive at the wrong conclusions.
 
SLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I think the media has as much of an agenda in misrepresenting the movement as Palmater has. You will notice that very little has been reported about the lifting of protection of our lakes and water ways, probably to appease the Chinese and their takeover of our resource "development". Part of the reason for the changes in the waters act is the Northern Pipeline where so much potential for environmental disaster lies.

Everybody wants a piece of the action.
 
Goober
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Everybody wants a piece of the action.

And the hijacking of IDNM will only cause more strife.
 
SLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Yes- It takes away from the intent of IDNM and Pam the loser in the last election has an agenda. So if people believe that she is a leader they will arrive at the wrong conclusions.

It's pretty much pooched now anyway I'd say. They've already been tainted by hunger strikes, people messing with train track signals, defacing monuments. The problem with any peaceful movement is when the less-than-peaceful come out to join it too.
 
Goober
+3
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

It's pretty much pooched now anyway I'd say. They've already been tainted by hunger strikes, people messing with train track signals, defacing monuments. The problem with any peaceful movement is when the less-than-peaceful come out to join it too.

It is not to late but they have to step up. They saw it was being hijacked and did make some statements. Time to lead or others will and they will be left with the stain of doing nothing when leadership was needed.
 
Cliffy
+3
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

It is not to late but they have to step up. They saw it was being hijacked and did make some statements. Time to lead or others will and they will be left with the stain of doing nothing when leadership was needed.

You mean they should be idle no more.
 
SLM
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

It is not to late but they have to step up. They saw it was being hijacked and did make some statements. Time to lead or others will and they will be left with the stain of doing nothing when leadership was needed.

I think that as much as it's about educating the public to FN issues, and I said as much the other day in the Spense thread, it all comes down to a big PR game. It has to be because the other side in this equation, the government, are masters of PR. The large numbers in a peaceful movement just don't outshine the bad news presented from the media, from the government side of things, and from troublemakers that latch onto the movement.

It's incredibly unfortunate, there is a lot that people really need to learn. Just look at the nasty commentary we've seen here and if you think that's bad, read some of the commentary at the bottom of all the news articles.

"The stain of doing nothing when leadership was needed". That's well put. I hope it doesn't come to that but I fear it will. The general public has a really short attention span and they are the ones that are needed on side.
 
captain morgan
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

The general public has a really short attention span and they are the ones that are needed on side.


The movement appears to have been hijacked by a variety of (related) groups that have similar agendas, but are not all singing from the same song-book as set out by the founders. As an example, this morning I heard an interview on CBC from an eco-group that have combined 'forces' with some self proclaimed 'Idlers' in Vancouver that are picketing the Northern Gateway hearings.

I can see where the common ground is between the 2 groups but the impact is has on Idle No More serves to muddy the public's understanding of their core philosophy.... Factor-in the revolving blockades of rail lines, highways and bridges and all the public sees at this point is a pseudo-militant response to a 'cause' that is barely defined.

In the end, the general public will only see the disruptions and inconveniences caused by the actions of those that take these actions... The underlying message is entirely lost relative to what the movement was ever about
 
Goober
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

The movement appears to have been hijacked by a variety of (related) groups that have similar agendas, but are not all singing from the same song-book as set out by the founders. As an example, this morning I heard an interview on CBC from an eco-group that have combined 'forces' with some self proclaimed 'Idlers' in Vancouver that are picketing the Northern Gateway hearings.

I can see where the common ground is between the 2 groups but the impact is has on Idle No More serves to muddy the public's understanding of their core philosophy.... Factor-in the revolving blockades of rail lines, highways and bridges and all the public sees at this point is a pseudo-militant response to a 'cause' that is barely defined.

In the end, the general public will only see the disruptions and inconveniences caused by the actions of those that take these actions... The underlying message is entirely lost relative to what the movement was ever about

Your opinion- If the IDNM leadership steps up and day after day reports on what their movement is about. That they condemn any blockades after a certain point in time. That they want meaningful discussion and solutions do you think the Canadian Public will hear that.
Atleo stated, solutions will take time but a plan and funding is needed.
 
SLM
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

The movement appears to have been hijacked by a variety of (related) groups that have similar agendas, but are not all singing from the same song-book as set out by the founders. As an example, this morning I heard an interview on CBC from an eco-group that have combined 'forces' with some self proclaimed 'Idlers' in Vancouver that are picketing the Northern Gateway hearings.

I can see where the common ground is between the 2 groups but the impact is has on Idle No More serves to muddy the public's understanding of their core philosophy.... Factor-in the revolving blockades of rail lines, highways and bridges and all the public sees at this point is a pseudo-militant response to a 'cause' that is barely defined.

In the end, the general public will only see the disruptions and inconveniences caused by the actions of those that take these actions... The underlying message is entirely lost relative to what the movement was ever about

Absolutely no different than the whole OWS movement. It very quickly became a very disjointed, chaotic mess where no one really knew what it was all about. I see the same thing happening here and for the same reason. These movements purport to represent a very large group that is simply not that cohesive. There is far too much distance in pockets of what they want, what their priorities are, how they feel they should go about getting what they want/need. Add to that the more militant factions that come out, it's a recipe for disaster.

Again, it's unfortunate. There really is so much that could get resolved if people could just stick to one topic, one agenda at a time. As it is though, it seems like one gets lost in another.
 
Goober
#21
Due to their lack of leadership this is what Canadians think- Not all. But it is a road where violence can occur.

Canadians' attitudes hardening on aboriginal issues: new poll - The Globe and Mail
 
captain morgan
+3
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Your opinion- If the IDNM leadership steps up and day after day reports on what their movement is about. That they condemn any blockades after a certain point in time. That they want meaningful discussion and solutions do you think the Canadian Public will hear that.
Atleo stated, solutions will take time but a plan and funding is needed.

Goobs - my thoughts, based on what I've read and heard on the radio is that the originators of the movement are being treated in a secondary fashion by the media... I have come to understand that the official position of Idle No More is that they do not endorse the actions (incl violence) that has been delivered by some select groups. That said, if they came out tomorrow and denounced all these things, I don't think that the media would really cover it properly and more importantly, those people that are acting-out (for lack of a better phrase) would pay heed to the directive(s).

A lot of this is the media's fault and the weird timing of Chief Spence's hunger strike... Quite frankly, Spence took the lime light for a long time during which the media forced the association between Idle No More and her cause... things just morphed from there.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Absolutely no different than the whole OWS movement. It very quickly became a very disjointed, chaotic mess where no one really knew what it was all about. I see the same thing happening here and for the same reason. These movements purport to represent a very large group that is simply not that cohesive. There is far too much distance in pockets of what they want, what their priorities are, how they feel they should go about getting what they want/need. Add to that the more militant factions that come out, it's a recipe for disaster.

Again, it's unfortunate. There really is so much that could get resolved if people could just stick to one topic, one agenda at a time. As it is though, it seems like one gets lost in another.

Extremely well said

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Due to their lack of leadership this is what Canadians think- Not all. But it is a road where violence can occur.

Canadians' attitudes hardening on aboriginal issues: new poll - The Globe and Mail


I'll wager that this is a direct result of the gen public not having a real understanding of the issues
 
Goober
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Goobs - my thoughts, based on what I've read and heard on the radio is that the originators of the movement are being treated in a secondary fashion by the media... I have come to understand that the official position of Idle No More is that they do not endorse the actions (incl violence) that has been delivered by some select groups. That said, if they came out tomorrow and denounced all these things, I don't think that the media would really cover it properly and more importantly, those people that are acting-out (for lack of a better phrase) would pay heed to the directive(s).

A lot of this is the media's fault and the weird timing of Chief Spence's hunger strike... Quite frankly, Spence took the lime light for a long time during which the media forced the association between Idle No More and her cause... things just morphed from there.



Extremely well said




I'll wager that this is a direct result of the gen public not having a real understanding of the issues

And you are a well informed person. Reason they -IDNM - has to step up is we have many Canadians that are poorly informed.

This - the blockades - can if extended for a lengthy period lead to blood shed. The pressure by uniformed Canadians will be immense.

And Yes FN can shut many rail lines- highways down. Same with electricity towers -blow a few towers and what happens.There are always radicals that follow their own agenda.
A FFn mess is the result.

Time for those that support IDNM's principles to pressure the Founders.
 
SLM
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

I'll wager that this is a direct result of the gen public not having a real understanding of the issues

I believe that to be the case too.
 
captain morgan
+2
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

And you are a well informed person. Reason they -IDNM - has to step up is we have many Canadians that are poorly informed.

This - the blockades - can if extended for a lengthy period lead to blood shed. The pressure by uniformed Canadians will be immense.

And Yes FN can shut many rail lines- highways down. Same with electricity towers -blow a few towers and what happens.There are always radicals that follow their own agenda.
A FFn mess is the result.

Time for those that support IDNM's principles to pressure the Founders.


I feel badly for the founders, I believe that there message is being used for political leverage and nothing more... The program of informing people and educating the public will fade away... Too bad/

Hopefully, there won't be any significant confrontations. I could see the gvt waging economic war in response via withholding money to the FNs... That would punish a lot of innocent people in the process.
 
Cliffy
#26
The lack of understanding of the issues and the lack of respect for aboriginals in general, is a result of a carefully engineered campaign by the media.
 
SLM
+2
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

And you are a well informed person. Reason they -IDNM - has to step up is we have many Canadians that are poorly informed.

This - the blockades - can if extended for a lengthy period lead to blood shed. The pressure by uniformed Canadians will be immense.

And Yes FN can shut many rail lines- highways down. Same with electricity towers -blow a few towers and what happens.There are always radicals that follow their own agenda.
A FFn mess is the result.

Time for those that support IDNM's principles to pressure the Founders.

I think in a lot of ways you were bang on with your thread title. Because it is about leadership. But the leadership has to recognize that it's behind the eight ball as far as information goes. The media and even the government always presents First Nations as one cohesive group, it's not. But that's the public perception. The general public sees the AFN on the news and assumes they are the de facto representatives of all First Nations people, which was a great idea in theory but in practice it's fallen short. There are a great many in the FN community that the AFN doesn't speak for. But the average Canadian really doesn't know this. So when they see a separate movement, even a peaceful one like INM started out to be, it looks like dissent in the ranks, you know? Then when the AFN looks like they are getting behind the movement, it looks like capitulation to dissenters. Bring out the real troublemakers who tamper with equipment or deface public monuments and it just looks worse and worse. It makes no difference what it's actually about, why each group is really doing what they're dong and whether they are in agreement.

Perception is everything. Any group, any leader that wants to really make a difference has to start there.
 
Goober
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

I think in a lot of ways you were bang on with your thread title. Because it is about leadership. But the leadership has to recognize that it's behind the eight ball as far as information goes. The media and even the government always presents First Nations as one cohesive group, it's not. But that's the public perception. The general public sees the AFN on the news and assumes they are the de facto representatives of all First Nations people, which was a great idea in theory but in practice it's fallen short. There are a great many in the FN community that the AFN doesn't speak for. But the average Canadian really doesn't know this. So when they see a separate movement, even a peaceful one like INM started out to be, it looks like dissent in the ranks, you know? Then when the AFN looks like they are getting behind the movement, it looks like capitulation to dissenters. Bring out the real troublemakers who tamper with equipment or deface public monuments and it just looks worse and worse. It makes no difference what it's actually about, why each group is really doing what they're dong and whether they are in agreement.

Perception is everything. Any group, any leader that wants to really make a difference has to start there.

The IDNM leadership has stated at a very low level that this is not about the Chiefs etc. Number 1 problem - they along with the Govt are part and parcel of the problems. If you mention corruption people try to slam you as racists.
Stand up and take the lead- They can get their message out but they have to set standards- set what they represent and what they do not represent.

And yes it could be messy - but if they do not want to lose their movement they had best stand up - speak with their fellow FN Peoples - and take the lead.


Stop FFN around with we do not agree, or we do not want this from the Chiefs, FN blockades etc. Get up - get moving and yes take the agenda and make it what it was meant to be.
If they do not then they are clearly did not take into consideration in what the repercussions would be.

Spence hijacked it and they stood aside.The radicals hijacked it and they stood aside.
 
Ron in Regina
+3
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Due to their lack of leadership this is what Canadians think- Not all. But it is a road where violence can occur.

Canadians' attitudes hardening on aboriginal issues: new poll - The Globe and Mail

It's a tough nut...that's for sure. Most are only vaguely aware of the issues. Many
hear the blocked roads & rail crossings & border crossings (or threats there of) &
blocked bridges, etc....& the Manitoba Chief threatening to shut down the Canadian
economy if he doesn't get whatever he's demanding this time....& Chief Spence with
he threat of dieting herself to death if she doesn't get her whatever it's claimed she
wants from week to week, etc...

Many, like myself I'm assuming, don't deal with threats well. Give me an "or else" and
I'll tell you generally to go stuff it in your hat (but maybe not in those exact words).

Society has rules and laws that we all are suppose to follow. These are to be enforced
by our legal system (without bias based upon gender or race or sexual orientation or
ethnic background or economic standing, etc...).

If Freddy Flintstone & the Water Buffalo's, or a bunch of disgruntled farmers, or whatever,
decide that they're going to blockade the Trans Canada Highway at some spot....they're
going to be removed (& most likely charged with something or another).

Then we (the general population working away day to day to pay our taxes and improve
our own lots in life) hear in the media of railway crossings being blocked for a week at a
time....& the police (RCMP, whatever...) do nothing but monitor, regardless of the rule of
law or the direct order of the courts, and my attitude on Aboriginal issues doesn't change,
but my attitude on the selective enforcement of the law by those empowered (and
collecting a tax payer funded paycheque) to uphold and enforce the law...that sours
further.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...-rail-blockade

I heard on the radio earlier today while doing a parts run, a 2-3 minute long statement by
some limp-**** "Daniel Something-or-another" for the OPP waffling away about this exact
thing, say'n in advance that the OPP will do exactly zip, only monitor blockades, maybe
investigate after the fact, and that the First Nations can shut down the Canadian Economy
(which we ALL are a part of)....and they'll just monitor, etc...

http://metronews.ca/news/canada/5110...more-protests/

The it comes on the news that some OPP officer at one of these road blockades, instead
of moving protesters & their drums off the roadway (or to the side, whatever), joins into
the blockade in uniform to block traffic while beating a drum as traffic packs up behind
this? Really? What the Hell?

In all honesty, that truly pisses me off....& no, my tax dollars provincially do not pay for
the OPP, but it's just another example of the legal double standard in enforcement, and
that just seems so wrong. All follow the law, or none follow the law. Don't enforce it for
some and not others or it doesn't work.

That's where my attitude hardens. Same with the freak show of Occupy last year. Same
with Tamils blocking bridges in Toronto the year before for whatever it was that they
wanted (don't remember, don't care to).

I don't care if it's disgruntled farmers, or Tamil Tigers, or First Nations, or Unions, or
whatever....protest outside of traffic, don't break the law, and don't threaten the general
population outside of whatever click or group you belong to & then expect support and
sympathy from those you threaten, as that is just so far beyond stupid to even be palatable.

That is exactly where I'm at on this issue. I've tuned out this whole First Nations
infighting and protesting once the threats came out, but and more than annoyed with
the legal system and its selective enforcement one road or crossings or bridges or
borders, etc...are blocked.
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Jan 16th, 2013 at 09:22 PM..Reason: added LINK, corrected some spacing...
 
taxslave
#30
For the past week I have been doing a demo project in an active industrial plant and had lunch with their crew. There was a fair amount of hostility towards natives in general and Spence in particular. Also most of their comments have no basis in reality . Some of them figure it is time to play cowboys and indians again. Trying to explain treaty obligations to them is much like talking to a dumb stump. Scary part is that they are by no means an isolated group.
 

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