Tasered senior files $1.1M lawsuit against Peel cops


SLM
#1
Tasered senior files $1.1M lawsuit against Peel cops

MISSISSAUGA - An 80-year-old Mississauga woman with dementia and her daughter are suing three police officers and the Peel Regional Police Services Board for Tasering the elderly woman twice during an incident that left her with a broken hip.
Police found Iole Pasquale walking in the Thomas St. and Erin Mills Pkwy. area on Aug. 28 around 3:30 a.m. carrying a bread knife, according to the province's Special Investigations Unit. After attempts to get her to drop the knife failed, they used the Taser on her twice, causing Pasquale to fall and break her hip.
The senior is now suing for $1.1 million and her daughter, Angela, is seeking $250,000 in damages. Their lawyer, Clayton Ruby, filed the papers to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice Thursday.
"There are no grounds for three armed police officers to Taser an 80-year-old confused woman with a bread knife," Ruby said Saturday. "What's telling is they Taser her once, and presumably, she's fallen down by that point. But they Taser her again when she's on the ground. And that's just cruel beyond belief."
As a result of the broken hip, Pasquale is no longer able to live alone and now resides in a retirement home in Peel Region.
"Her life has fallen apart," Ruby said. "(Her daughter) had to sell the house and she doesn't know that yet because most of her memory is gone from this incident. Angela has now quit her job because the home her mother is in doesn't provide enough nursing services. (Iole) is scared that she's been taken to this new home to die."
According to the statement of claim, the plaintiffs allege the officers failed to take proper steps to recognize Iole's mental state and "improperly used excessive and potentially deadly force." They also plead the board has failed to ensure their officers are properly trained to deal with mental health issues and issues involving the elderly.
Furthermore, the Pasquales want to lift the "veil of secrecy" of the identities of the three officers, whose names have not been released to the public.
The officers were cleared of any criminal charges relating to this case by the SIU last month. However, then-SIU director Ian Scott said there had been an alternative option for them -- waiting, which "would seem to have been a preferred option."
Peel Regional Police Const. George Tudos declined comment because "it's a civil dispute and we normally don't give out anything in regards to any court statements or proceedings."
Ruby said the police have yet to file their statement of defence, but must do so within 60 days.
"What's next is they file that statement, we see what their position is and then we get to cross-examine them," he said. "What (police) need to teach is backing off, a cooling-off period, talking."


Tasered senior files $1.1M lawsuit against Peel cops | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun


I'm not even sure how to process all of this. I think we do have some definite excessive force but don't also want to diminish just how dangerous a confused person waving a knife can present, even an elderly one. I question why someone who was in such a state of dementia as to simply get dressed and go for a walk with a knife in the middle of the night was living alone in the first place. My guess, and it is just a guess, is that she was presenting difficulty with applying for Long Term Care and the family wasn't being as forceful with it as they should have. Now we have a 1.1 million dollar lawsuit. 1.1 million?



I don't think there are clear black and white answers here. Thoughts?
 
CDNBear
+1
#2
Clayton Ruby...

Surprise Surprise Surprise - YouTube
 
SLM
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Clayton Ruby...

Surprise Surprise Surprise - YouTube

You can be a man of few words, lol.

And a Gomer Pyle YouTube always speaks volumes.
 
taxslave
#4
What is the lawyer's cut if they should somehow win?
 
CDNBear
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

You can be a man of few words, lol.

And a Gomer Pyle YouTube always speaks volumes.

Ruby is an unmitigated scumbag. I could get behind some of his campaigns, if he wasn't so vitriolic and over the top.

He's the legal professions version of what Levant has become.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

What is the lawyer's cut if they should somehow win?

It can range from 20% to 45%.
Last edited by CDNBear; Nov 4th, 2013 at 12:19 PM..
 
PoliticalNick
+2
#6
I'm not sure I care how an 80 year old woman with mental health issues got onto the street. 3 young cops decided the best way to deal with her was to taser her....twice. There is an obvious lapse in their judgement and training. Worse is the free pass from their internal affairs and the criminal court. I'm sick of seeing people get away with unnecessary violence just because they have a uniform. To me part of that job, any public service job, is being held to a higher standard, not a lesser one. It is high time to start sending the message to cops and politicians that their behaviour is deplorable and will no longer be accepted. If that means some million dollar lawsuits I'm ok with it.
 
Christianna
#7
Quote:

I question why someone who was in such a state of dementia as to simply get dressed and go for a walk with a knife in the middle of the night was living alone in the first place

I wondered about that too.
 
petros
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Clayton Ruby...

A "Better call Saul" type?
 
CDNBear
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

A "Better call Saul" type?

Worse.
 
Sal
+2
#10
They tasered an 80 year old woman carrying a butter knife, for real?

Nice job!

Could it get any worse? Oh wait, they could have shot her. Butter knives in the hands of seniors with dementia are dangerous.

gawd give me strength
 
CDNBear
+3
#11  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

They tasered an 80 year old woman carrying a butter knife, for real?

Nice job!

Could it get any worse? Oh wait, they could have shot her. Butter knives in the hands of seniors with dementia are dangerous.

gawd give me strength

I hope he gives you the strength to read...

Police found Iole Pasquale walking in the Thomas St. and Erin Mills Pkwy. area on Aug. 28 around 3:30 a.m. carrying a bread knife , according to the province's Special Investigations Unit. After attempts to get her to drop the knife failed, they used the Taser on her twice, causing Pasquale to fall and break her hip.





A bread knife.

Just sayin'...
 
DaSleeper
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I hope he gives you the strength to read...

Police found Iole Pasquale walking in the Thomas St. and Erin Mills Pkwy. area on Aug. 28 around 3:30 a.m. carrying a bread knife , according to the province's Special Investigations Unit. After attempts to get her to drop the knife failed, they used the Taser on her twice, causing Pasquale to fall and break her hip.





A bread knife.

Just sayin'...

You beat me to it.....
 
Sal
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I hope he gives you the strength to read...

Police found Iole Pasquale walking in the Thomas St. and Erin Mills Pkwy. area on Aug. 28 around 3:30 a.m. carrying a bread knife , according to the province's Special Investigations Unit. After attempts to get her to drop the knife failed, they used the Taser on her twice, causing Pasquale to fall and break her hip.





A bread knife.

Just sayin'...

I stand corrected. It doesn't change my opinion regarding the tasering.
 
CDNBear
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Sal View Post

It doesn't change my opinion regarding the tasering.

I'm not surprised.
 
Goober
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I'm not sure I care how an 80 year old woman with mental health issues got onto the street. 3 young cops decided the best way to deal with her was to taser her....twice. There is an obvious lapse in their judgement and training. Worse is the free pass from their internal affairs and the criminal court. I'm sick of seeing people get away with unnecessary violence just because they have a uniform. To me part of that job, any public service job, is being held to a higher standard, not a lesser one. It is high time to start sending the message to cops and politicians that their behaviour is deplorable and will no longer be accepted. If that means some million dollar lawsuits I'm ok with it.

What time does a Taser require before it is effective?

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/20...uest_told.html

Tasers are very rarely used on a person armed with a sharp weapon, testified an Ontario Police College instructor at the inquest into the fatal police shootings of three mentally ill people Wednesday.

“I’m never going to say never, but it would be rare,” said John Zeyen, who trains new recruits on Taser use. “In situations that are very serious, we have to have the firearm. . . to protect the officer, and to protect the public as well.”

Peter Rosenthal, lawyer for the Eligon family, called Tasers “dangerous weapons” that should not be made available to more officers in Ontario if they are not going to be used to disarm people with knives.

“What people hope from Tasers is to avoid killings in situations like this, but they’re not going to do it . . . because they’re not going to use Tasers in these situations,” he said.

Guidelines posted on the Ministry of Community Safety website state that officers can deploy Tasers when someone is “threatening or displaying assaultive behaviour,” after attempts have been made to de-escalate the situation.

The inquest earlier heard that when someone is advancing with a knife, it is considered “serious bodily harm or death behaviour” and the police response is lethal force — drawing one’s gun.

Paul Bonner, a defensive tactics instructor with the Ontario Provincial Police, testified that officers are trained to create distance, yell a command like “drop the knife” and pull out their firearm.

“The chances of getting extremely injured or killed (by a sharp weapon) are very high,” said Bonner. “It’s not the size of the knife that makes a difference. It doesn’t take strength to do damage to an individual. It doesn’t require skill, or a lot of training.”

But Sylvia Klibingaitis’s sister, Lili Steer, questioned Bonner about why guns are seen as the only response. Klibingaitis was shot by an officer outside her home in October 2011, after she apparently ignored a command to drop her knife.

(Officers) always try to calm people down and reassure. When a knife is out and they rush them, it’s already gone past that point,” he said.

Asked why officers are not trained to disarm the person with kicks or punches, Bonner called that suggestion a “Hollywood image.” By the time a person’s arm is moving with a knife, it’s too late to throw a punch, he said.

He also said that bulletproof vests do not necessarily protect against knife attacks, and that batons and shields were not practical defences, either.


The coroner’s inquest is set to last eight weeks and raise questions about how frontline officers deal with the mentally ill. The five-member jury cannot make findings of guilt, only recommendations aimed at preventing similar deaths.
Last edited by Goober; Nov 4th, 2013 at 07:43 PM..
 
spaminator
+2
#16
she was going to cut the policemen into small evenly sliced slices.



Officers facing lawsuit after woman, 80, Tasered | CityNews
Last edited by spaminator; Nov 4th, 2013 at 10:20 PM..
 
Nuggler
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I'm not surprised.

You think it should ?



She'd have to be pretty feisty 80 year old if a young cop just couldn't grab her wrist and take the knife away. Or snap her on the head with a baton and take away the rest of her brains...............also. She has dementia.

""""
""There are no grounds for three armed police officers to Taser an 80-year-old confused woman with a bread knife," Ruby said Saturday""

Clayton, you dumb, useless, axehole, they didn't taser her with a bread knife.. You're supposed to be an intelligent shyster, sentence construction, please. Jesus !!! You'll get the jury confused.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

You think it should ?

Of course he does. His posts should change everybody's mind to his way of thinking don't ya know!

Quote:

She'd have to be pretty feisty 80 year old if a young cop just couldn't grab her wrist and take the knife away. Or snap her on the head with a baton and take away the rest of her brains...............also. She has dementia.

That is my thinking. There were 3 fit police officers against a frail & confused 80 year old lady. Should we not expect 1 or 2 to distract her while the other(s) got behind her and restrained and disarmed her? Is it really too much to believe such a plan was impossible to devise and execute? Is it really acceptable to pay for a police service who refuses to put themselves in an even slightly dangerous position with a slight chance of receiving a laceration requiring a few stiches opting instead for hurting and maiming those they are supposed to serve and protect?
 
Nuggler
#19
Is it really too much to believe such a plan was impossible to devise and execute? Is it really acceptable to pay for a police service who refuses to put themselves in an even slightly dangerous position with a slight chance of receiving a laceration requiring a few stiches opting instead for hurting and maiming those they are supposed to serve and protect?"""

With you on this one, Nick.

Bread knives are serrated, but don't have much of a point.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

""it should ?Of course he does. His posts should change everybody's mind to his way of thinking don't ya know!""

Nah, not really.
 
CDNBear
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

You think it should ?

Don't know, I wasn't there and I haven't read the testimony.

Quote:

She'd have to be pretty feisty 80 year old if a young cop just couldn't grab her wrist and take the knife away.

Meh, Arty the SAA at the Legion is 86 and can still put 20yo's out the door with great ease.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

Of course he does.

Do you always have to say something stupid in your posts?

Quote:

His posts should change everybody's mind to his way of thinking don't ya know!

That answers my question.

Quote:

That is my thinking. There were 3 fit police officers against a frail & confused 80 year old lady.

What a bigoted thing to say.
 
SLM
+2
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

With you on this one, Nick.

Bread knives are serrated, but don't have much of a point.

Not saying what's what as far as any of it goes, not endorsing the tasering or anything like that, but if you ran my bread knife across your skin you'd be singing a very different song. I guarantee it.

But I do think they need to have a better system in place for dealing with mentally ill people.
 
PoliticalNick
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Not saying what's what as far as any of it goes, not endorsing the tasering or anything like that, but if you ran my bread knife across your skin you'd be singing a very different song. I guarantee it.

But I do think they need to have a better system in place for dealing with mentally ill people.

I'm pretty sure I could subdue an 80 year old woman even if she had your bread knife and still walk away. I wouldn't even need 2 friends to help. Don't cops receive hand to hand training anymore or is it just tasers and guns? I would rather lose a little blood and take a few stitches than taser an old lady.

WTF do we pay these idiots for if it isn't to take some risks in order to keep us safe? At this point in time I feel less safe with the way our police forces respond to situations rather than more safe. It is a sad state of affairs.
 
CDNBear
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I'm pretty sure I could subdue an 80 year old woman even if she had your bread knife and still walk away. I wouldn't even need 2 friends to help.

Ya, you'd just gun her down with your hand cannon like a big ole butch dude, lol.
 
Goober
+1
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I'm pretty sure I could subdue an 80 year old woman even if she had your bread knife and still walk away. I wouldn't even need 2 friends to help. Don't cops receive hand to hand training anymore or is it just tasers and guns? I would rather lose a little blood and take a few stitches than taser an old lady.

WTF do we pay these idiots for if it isn't to take some risks in order to keep us safe? At this point in time I feel less safe with the way our police forces respond to situations rather than more safe. It is a sad state of affairs.

1 gash in the right place and about 90 seconds later you have bled out.
 
PoliticalNick
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Ya, you'd just gun her down with your hand cannon like a big ole butch dude, lol.

You don't know how happy I am to know I am so much a part of your life and psyche that you have to follow me from thread to thread trying to troll me. Thanks!

 
CDNBear
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

1 gash in the right place and about 90 seconds later you have bled out.

Femoral, corodid.

And neither takes a considerable amount of force or energy to open.

Not to mention, wrestling her or attempting to disarm by force, may have ended in the same injury. Which from what I gather from reading further, is why they were cleared of any wrong doing.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

You don't know how happy I am to know I am so much a part of your life and psyche that you have to follow me from thread to thread trying to troll me. Thanks!

Oh that's why you hide from me and make up names for yourself, lol.

Gotchya, lol.

Oh, BTW, stop crying like a little girl when you get what you beg for, lol...

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

Of course he does.

 
taxslave
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick View Post

I'm pretty sure I could subdue an 80 year old woman even if she had your bread knife and still walk away. I wouldn't even need 2 friends to help. Don't cops receive hand to hand training anymore or is it just tasers and guns? I would rather lose a little blood and take a few stitches than taser an old lady.

WTF do we pay these idiots for if it isn't to take some risks in order to keep us safe? At this point in time I feel less safe with the way our police forces respond to situations rather than more safe. It is a sad state of affairs.

I bet you think firefighters should just rush willynilly into a burning building too.
 
CDNBear
+1
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

I bet you think firefighters should just rush willynilly into a burning building too.

He'd actually have to think to think that. lol.
 
Goober
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Femoral, corodid.

And neither takes a considerable amount of force or energy to open.

Not to mention, wrestling her or attempting to disarm by force, may have ended in the same injury. Which from what I gather from reading further, is why they were cleared of any wrong doing.

Oh that's why you hide from me and make up names for yourself, lol.

Gotchya, lol.

I had a differing opinion until following the testimony that has been published ref the inquest in Ontario regarding the 3 deaths of mentally ill persons involved with Police Officers.
One gentleman's sister was supervised when she found out how long it can take for a Taser to take effect, if it does take or cause a full effect.
 
taxslave
+2
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

He'd actually have to think to think that. lol.

Silly me.LOL
 

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