Will Dion be forced out as Leader of the Liberals?


vishliberal
#1
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/po...ef4b2d&k=87694
"A Liberal strategist, speaking on condition of anonymity, said there is widespread anger at the deal in caucus, which Liberals feel could be used against them in a federal election. The strategist said the decision was another strike against Dion, whose leadership has come into question in recent months.
'The only reason this was not the final straw is because of the threat of an election,' the strategist said.
Ray Heard, former communications director to Liberal prime minister John Turner, was one of the few to publicly express his anger with Dion, saying he would support party members who believe Dion should be forced out.
The deal with May 'denigrates the tradition that the Liberals are a national party,' he said in an email to the Toronto Star.
'Both (Liberal MPs) Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae are eminently qualified to succeed him before the next election and I cannot fault their supporters for plotting to dump him before it's too late.' "
http://www.thestar.com/article/203059

Do you think Dion will be forced out as party leader in the near future?
 
Tonington
#2
After the Liberals lose in the next election, he'll get the boot.
 
jjaycee98
Conservative
#3
for the Liberal party. Seemed that everyone shied away from running figuring the Conservatives would call and win an election. Party people seemed to think they needed breathing space from all the scandal and that they would work on rebuilding for the next one.
Dion does not want to be a builder (not by his actions anyway) He isn't there because the majority wanted him there. Rather they did not want some of the others who ran. He has the same problem Preston Manning had. Both are very intelligent people but no personal appeal.
 
Toro
#4
God, I sure hope not!
 
tamarin
Conservative
#5
A convention winner is entitled to an election shot. He's earned it. Even amongst the Libs there must be some remaining Fair Play rules.
 
vishliberal
#6
agreed. I dont think the Liberals should scrap him just yet. He should be entitled to an election, and really if they want to topple him and have him replaced for the better who are they gonna get? Rae? Ignatieff? Those arent the best choices themselves. Picture Conservative Attack Ad's for those guys, Ontario NDP Reccession Rae, and the all American Ignatieff, there are too many anti-iggy quotes that would make him look horrible. It would just make the Liberals look worse if they topple or attempt to topple Dion before an election. Dion needs to learn the ropes of politics and how to stand up for himself and defend his identity. Im reminiscent of Day and when he first came to power as Leader of the Opposition. Apparently, Chretien did the same thing as Harper and ran attack ads against him, and then called an election within a year of his arrival to ensure his third majority. Harper played his cards well once Dion was elected with the attack ads but Dions response wasnt well played. He should have fought back instead of allowing Canadians to pass judgement on it. Now, this wouldnt require AS MUCH money as Harper spent on his Anti-Dion election style campaigns. I read an article recently that talked about how Harper wasnt much liked when he was Leader of the Opposition and look where he is now. For example, this article by Politicswatch is an example:

Writing off Dion a risky business
by Romeo St. Martin PoliticsWatch April 3, 2007

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion is becoming a punching bag for critics and pundits, just like Prime Minister Stephen Harper was in opposition.

OTTAWA As a federal election approaches, the leader of the opposition is ridiculed daily in the media and anonymous party insiders tell newspaper reporters they question whether he'll still be around in a few months after the anticipated whipping at the polls.

In fact, they appear to be counting the days until the election is over so their party can pick another leader and get on with the job of winning elections.

If you are thinking about Liberal Leader Stephane Dion you're half correct.

The same type of writing-off was happening just weeks before the 2006 federal election that transformed Prime Minister Stephen Harper from a zero to a hero.

The same media that now applauds the strategic brilliance of almost every Harper decision has quickly forgotten this was the same man who had made the strategic blunder of wearing an ill-fitting cowboy suit at the 2005 Calgary Stampede.

In the summer and early fall of 2005, Harper, it seemed, couldn't do anything right in the media's eyes.

Belinda Stronach's defection to the Liberals was viewed as a strategic blunder by Harper for not reaching out to an ambitious leadership rival. There was the loss of the non-confidence vote against the Liberals. Harper was too angry and aggressive, the critics said.

Harper and the Tories were outwitted by the opposition parties who stopped debate on the same-sex marriage legislation while Tory MPs were on little green buses headed to the airport for the weekend. Harper? Not as crafty as those governing Liberals and too angry and aggressive about that fact of life.

Harper then had a short-lived, attempted image makeover that was quickly abandoned after reporters mocked an impromptu game of toss the football between Harper and Peter MacKay on the front lawn of Parliament Hill. The game was so impromptu that photographers were invited.

There was the Calgary Stampede incident. A poorly attended photo-op at a Dairy Queen in Quebec where people were offered money to buy ice cream from the "scary" Mr. Harper.

Watching Harper's certain demise had become so fashionable that by the end of the summer even minor questions about Harper's leadership were blown out of proportion as was the case when a Toronto Tory organizer started an online petition to have Harper ousted.

"The time has come for Stephen Harper to stop dreaming that his destiny is 24 Sussex Drive," wrote Carol Jamieson. "That day will only come if one of its residents invites him over because they are looking for a stick-in-the-mud dinner guest."

The Harper-can't-win fad reached its peak on October 6, 2005, when Globe and Mail columnist Lawrence Martin wrote the following, "Stephen Harper is now typecast, fairly or not, as the grim reaper of Canadian politics. But there is not enough will among the party's rank and file to drive him out. The party doesn't need that kind of bloodbath. The only hope for a change would be if the leader, for the good of the team, voluntarily resigned and called a leadership convention for January."

Almost four months to the day after Martin wrote those comments Harper was being sworn in as prime minister. Had he taken Martin's advice, who knows, Harper could be working for real at that Quebec Dairy Queen today asking customers if they would like "open federalism" with their sundaes.

Although Stephane Dion is not Stephen Harper and Harper already had one election under his belt, there is an eerily similar vibe going around on Parliament Hill these days.

The Conservatives, some Liberals and far too many reporters and pundits in the Parliamentary Press Gallery seem to be suffering from a common affliction known as Not Taking the Opposition Leader Seriously.

To many Stephane Dion is not a leader. "It has to be true since I saw it on TV," they must think.
On Tuesday, Sun Media's Greg Weston provide the latest example from the writing-off Dion bandwagon when he called him "the Grit leader who couldn't."

Weston went on to say Dion had a "fledgling leadership" and the Liberals were "staring at the political slaughterhouse."

But to be fair to Weston, the media isn't alone in this assessment and it isn't coming exclusively from Conservative spinmeisters.

Privately, a number of Liberals offer a similar assessment, including some key Jean Chretien supporters who have written Dion off.

Former Chretien supporters see too many Paul Martin backroomers working for Dion's election team and believe they will deliver for Dion Martin-esque electoral results.

Of course, a lot of these Chretien people were the same folks who sat around and allowed "da boss" to be dethroned by his caucus and party apparatus.

The Chretien people should also remember that their guy was similarly written off by the media and people inside the party during his early struggles as opposition leader.

One Liberal MP, who did not support Dion during the leadership race, recently noted the similarities between the early struggles of Chretien and Dion, such as questions about language skills and being considered a good cabinet minister but not up to the cut and thrust of being the opposition leader in question period.

Of course this is not to say that Dion will get similar results.

Weston and others could be right and Dion may very well lead the Liberals to that political slaughterhouse or, worse, John Turner Land.

But the recent example of Harper in the months before the 2006 election campaign shows that dire predictions about the electoral prospects of the opposition leader are not set in stone and should include a warning label that reads, "We've been wrong about this sort of thing before."

I think its a little early for the party to be writing Dion off because I think hes entitled to at least One election and plus, not many good replacements available anyways, so why risk it for a possible negative backlash?
 
westmanguy
#7
I agree with that other person.

Dion will lose the next election, and they will kick him out then.

But they might screw themselves if they hand over a majority to the Conservatives, and have to wait 4-5 years for another shot, instead of 1-2
 
Lotuslander
#8
Hard to say aboput Dion. He is certainly not going anywhere until after the next election. traditionally leaders are given two elections to prove their mettle. If they don't win they euther resign immediately or are forced out soon afterwards. In Dion's case alot depends on whether Harper gets a majority or not. If he doesn't and Dion looks to be making progress, especially in Quebec and perhaps BC then I think he will be safe. If on the other hand Harper gets a minority but the Liberals lose a significant amount of seats, losing 30 or more then the knives could be out. Even if Harper gains a majority I think Dion can remain, especially, if he does better than expected in Quebec. Harper has so far not been received warmly by Canadians. People respect him and his firm decision making but are wary of who he is and his views. The Grits might decide to stay with Dion so that Canadians have more of an opportunity to get to know him. After all the stuck with Turner after his near disasterous defeat.
 
stevek
#9
I don't know. If Dion keeps making bonehead statements like bringing the Taliban to Canada he may be gone sooner rather than later. He is becoming a laughing stock.
 
BitWhys
#10
given no other alternative but to hand them over to torture, what would YOU do?
 
El Barto
#11
it would be nice for a change that none of the party leaders came from quebec. It would change some dynamics of it. but oh well what am i saying red or blue it's all corrupt anyways......we need robots, at least we can pull the plug on that.......
 
stevek
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

given no other alternative but to hand them over to torture, what would YOU do?

Going by your (and Dion's) flawed logic we should bring all prisoners from anywhere in the world to Canada. (To make sure they are not tortured)
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

given no other alternative but to hand them over to torture, what would YOU do?

I would release them in afghanistan, not like a couple more militants is going to make a difference
 
BitWhys
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka View Post

I would release them in afghanistan, not like a couple more militants is going to make a difference

LOL!

catch and release
 
BitWhys
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by stevek View Post

Going by your (and Dion's) flawed logic we should bring all prisoners from anywhere in the world to Canada. (To make sure they are not tortured)

please

I saw the clip so I don't have to go on what Harper is making of it. Dion was speaking openly about an option he later pointed out shouldn't be necessary.
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

LOL!

catch and release

Ohh god, the fishing analogies are starting up. lol.
 
BitWhys
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurka View Post

Ohh god, the fishing analogies are starting up. lol.

seemed appropriate
 
Colpy
Conservative
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

given no other alternative but to hand them over to torture, what would YOU do?

An excellent question........
The idea of turning suspects over for torture is not at all to my liking. I am not sure what the alternative is............perhaps a Canadian controled holding facility in Afghanistan, which could serve double duty as a training facility for Afghan police.

If the Taliban prisoners are from outside Afghanistan, the solution is simple........up against a wall....BANG! Done, of course, by the Afghans, as it is their country.
 
BitWhys
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

An excellent question...

In my mind, the point being at least Dion's got it in him to scope out what's in the quiver before going into negotiations. He was just thinking on his feet and floating an option during a press conference. Its not like he had a pen in his hand.

You COULD fault him for giving Harper cannon fodder but that's going to happen anyways so he may as well relax about it.
 
stevek
#20
Or you could say that Harper already has enough fodder and maybe Dion should think before he speaks.
 
BitWhys
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by stevek View Post

Or you could say that Harper already has enough fodder and maybe Dion should think before he speaks.

Or I could point out that Jesus himself had detractors and they always found some to slag him with too so there's no point in worrying about the peanut gallery.
 
Toro
#22
I think Steph "It's Not Fair" Dion, former Minister of the Environment as Greenhouse Gases Rose and Citizen of France, is a fine leader. I hope he's Liberal leader for a long time.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#23
Central Nova Situation

Lberals pissed none but the party core expected to support Greens.
Remainder expected to support NDP.
McKay may be history.
Partys already being planned, booze being ordered.
 
BitWhys
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Central Nova Situation

Lberals pissed none but the party core expected to support Greens.
Remainder expected to support NDP.
McKay may be history.
Partys already being planned, booze being ordered.

Dion...

vindicated
 
stevek
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

Or I could point out that Jesus himself had detractors and they always found some to slag him with too so there's no point in worrying about the peanut gallery.

So now you're equating Dion wth Jesus????????
I thought Liberals were 'Godless'
 
BitWhys
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by stevek View Post

So now you're equating Dion wth Jesus????????
I thought Liberals were 'Godless'

actually, I'm equating Jesus with humanity which in my estimation was the whole object of the him dropping by in the first place.

you just go ahead and keep thinking that.
 
stevek
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys View Post

actually, I'm equating Jesus with humanity...

as I understand it Jesus is somewhat above humanity.
Quote:

....

you just go ahead and keep thinking that.

If you meant the 'Godless' comment, I will.
 
BitWhys
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by stevek View Post

as I understand it Jesus is somewhat above humanity....

Is he?

I'll be damned (again). Sure takes the thunder out of that whole crucifixion thing.
 
CDN87
#29
Dion is doing quite well. He is holding Harper out of majority government situation and once he gets out there, expect him to be the next Jean Chretien.
 
BitWhys
#30
oh come on

nobody can be that cantankerous without it being obvious in the first place.
Last edited by BitWhys; Apr 24th, 2007 at 03:28 PM..Reason: because I have no idea how to spell "crodgedy"
 

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