"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta


taxslave
Free Thinker
+1
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

The United States does not have long to live. It's about to split into four pieces ... The industrial North ... again ... Dixie ... again ... California and Texas ... again.

Somehow I just don't see Progressive Texas putting up with all the rich Luddites in California.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+2
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Don't get what, exactly?
How the west feels about the East - sorry - Ontario and Quebec?
How they think those two provinces rule everything?
How both provinces are un-****ing-fair to the West?
How the West is being sold out by its own country?
What am I missing?

It is not "think", it is fact. Always has been although not to this extent until Alberta started gaining financial clout.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+3
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Only if you count the many thousands of workers whose future depends solely on the success of resource industries. This includes the bulk of high tech in Canada.
 
mentalfloss
+1 / -1
#64
Alberta and Saskatchewan are the dead beat dads of the country.

Let them separate.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#65
Right now there are more jobs and money in green energy than in dirty oil. Western separatists are ignorant dickheads who are afraid of or cannot change with the times.
 
mentalfloss
#66
Yea and can't wait to see how Asskatchewberta gets another pipeline through BC.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+2
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

Yea and can't wait to see how Asskatchewberta gets another pipeline through BC.

Ideally more than one. That is the future of our economy since trudOWE sold all the manufacturing jobs.
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

Yea and can't wait to see how Asskatchewberta gets another pipeline through BC.

Welcome back big guy
 
Curious Cdn
No Party Affiliation
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

Welcome back big guy

Two years less a day, wasn't it?
 
Curious Cdn
No Party Affiliation
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Only if you count the many thousands of workers whose future depends solely on the success of resource industries. This includes the bulk of high tech in Canada.

The bulk of High Tech in Canada is out in the oil patch?

No, it's not.

What a steaming pile of hooey.

You really need to come East, some time. Go to Montreal and visit the Pratt & Whitney jet turbine plant, or the Bell Textron helicopter plant or Bombardier or the video animation powerhouses, there. Visit Waterloo ...the IT capital of the country. How about the industrial ring around Toronto that manufactures difficult-to-build car models, aircraft, design and build mechanical and electronic widgets of every kind of perhaps the microelectronics industry in Kanata and Carleton Place? ... advanced mining equipment designed and made in Sudbury? ...advanced shipbuilding in Halifax and Quebec?

The West is a teeny part of Canadian high tech.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

The bulk of High Tech in Canada is out in the oil patch?

No, it's not.

What a steaming pile of hooey.

You really need to come East, some time. Go to Montreal and visit the Pratt & Whitney jet turbine plant, or the Bell Textron helicopter plant or Bombardier or the video animation powerhouses, there. Visit Waterloo ...the IT capital of the country. How about the industrial ring around Toronto that manufactures difficult-to-build car models, aircraft, design and build mechanical and electronic widgets of every kind of perhaps the microelectronics industry in Kanata and Carleton Place? ... advanced mining equipment designed and made in Sudbury? ...advanced shipbuilding in Halifax and Quebec?

The West is a teeny part of Canadian high tech.

That sounds like a pretty big carbon footprint. Has Trudeau threatened to shut those industries down to meet the Paris Accord? Enacted Bills to cripple those industries or to hamstring them to set them up for failure? 150,000 jobs where thrown to the wolves in the western energy sector, but he threw Wilson-Raybould under the bus and shut down the Justine Committee over the false claim of about 3000 jobs at risk in Quebec? Not counting the industries themselves and just looking at the employee's income taxes....was this in Canada's best interests with a 50:1 ratio of jobs lost just for comparison?

It's not an accident that when China wanted to punish Canada over this Hauwei Goat Rodeo they didn't bother with the Pratt & Whitney jet turbine plant, or the Bell Textron helicopter plant or Bombardier or the video animation powerhouses, etc....they hit where it would really hurt the nation first with Canola (go ahead and laugh, but it's real), then pork & beef exports. Why do you think this is so? China is many things but it's not naive, and it's astute & politically savvy.

I'm not advocating separation . There's lots of talk about it but I'm not one of the many pushing for it with the thought that Western Canada is landlocked in or out of the Nation of Canada. I am pointing out that there's a problem though. Belittling it while sticking your head in the sand isn't going to solve anything. It's great that you can point out high tech Jobs in ON & QB, but the reality of things is that Canada is a Resource Nation. Exports of Oil and Gas and Lumber and Uranium & Potash & Specialty Crops & so on & so forth are what's paying the bills and providing the Bailouts to the Auto Industry a few years back and Bombardier every couple of years. With that in mind, where are the Canola & Potash & Uranium & Lumber & Oil & so on coming from for export to pay the bills and provide the bailouts and float the nation? Western Canada punches well above its weight in Canada, but looking at the election results....there is a very real issue that needs to be dealt with to preserve national Unity.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I don't think you're putting too much weight on the oil industry or the pipeline.


I do think there is a super stubborn "our way or no way" coming from the west.


As someone from NB, I personally HATE that we import oil from outside Canada. I can't imagine any other Easterner thinking any different.


And yet, I CAN see the West voting to put an end to Quebec forestry and dairy or the auto. Why? Because it's not about industry or people's livelihood, it's about how much the west hates the "east" - which is only Quebec and Ontario, as it's believed to be the opposite going the other direction, that Quebec and Ontario hate the West. If the West could 'tit for tat' those two provinces, they would. And bugger the rest of the East who actually aren't too far removed from the West in a lot of the views. Unfortunately, we're looked down at because our people move out west, "Take jobs" and how dare we do that, then come home.


I see the major problem being a lack of willingness to compromise on both sides. On all sides.


Yeah, Canada's divided, and sadly, cries for separation does not help the issue what so ever and THAT is squarely on the shoulders of the West (and Quebec when it suits them).

I beg to differ. The Energy Industry is the "canary in the coalmine." It's Huge for Western Canada, but it's an example, not the end all be all. If Western Canada voted predominantly Liberal, would that make it less demonized as an expendable tool to gain votes for the Liberal Party in Eastern Canada? Would sectors of its livelihood be less threatened? Read some of the comments by 'Curious Cdn' and others. Nobody could be less clueless of the sentiment in this part of Canada (no offense 'Curious Cdn,' but just using you as an example).

Being a CANADIAN in Western Canada, I can't see anyone wanting an end to Quebec forestry and dairy or the automotive industry or even the lame duck of Bombardier. We as a whole are more successful when we're ALL allowed to continue to succeed. We just want a level playing field, & I'd love to see Quebec become so successful that it pays out much more in Equalization than it collects by fully utilizing its own natural resources.

As someone from SK, I also personally HATE that we import oil from outside Canada....but I've read right on this forum in the last 48 hours someone being grateful that they got their oil from Saudi Arabia so as to not have to support CANADIAN Industry. I'm serious. I'm sure not looking down on anyone coming out west to work (& Yes I'm thinking of NB & NL) shoulder to shoulder with those of us that are putting our noses to the grindstone to improve our lives with our labour. If there weren't jobs to be filled there wouldn't be any 'jobs to take.' We as a whole are more successful when we're ALL allowed to continue to succeed.

As far as the Give & Take thing goes, We've given & have demonstrated in this last election that it's a pretty solid voice out here, and if we're expected to continue to give....then Ottawa needs to govern themselves accordingly.



 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I see the major problem being a lack of willingness to compromise on both sides. On all sides.

Yeah, Canada's divided, and sadly, cries for separation does not help the issue what so ever and THAT is squarely on the shoulders of the West (and Quebec when it suits them).

Four years ago talk of separation in Western Canada was tiny and from the tinfoil hat brigade. Four years later it's not just a fringe mulling it over and what is the difference between then & now? I haven't heard anything like this since Justin's Father was the PM, and it wasn't like this. It's not loud blowhard posturing but quiet calm real discussions by normal people. I don't like it. I'm a Canadian and this shouldn't be happening. It's sad that it's at this point that it's not just the tiny tinfoil hat brigade seriously & calmly discussing this. Deriding this isn't going to help the situation out here at all. Quebec is all noise, and this is different as this is a portion of the country that actually gets off their arse's and things done. This shouldn't be taken lightly.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
+1
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I beg to differ. The Energy Industry is the "canary in the coalmine." It's Huge for Western Canada, but it's an example, not the end all be all. If Western Canada voted predominantly Liberal, would that make it less demonized as an expendable tool to gain votes for the Liberal Party in Eastern Canada? Would sectors of its livelihood be less threatened? Read some of the comments by 'Curious Cdn' and others. Nobody could be less clueless of the sentiment in this part of Canada (no offense 'Curious Cdn,' but just using you as an example).

Being a CANADIAN in Western Canada, I can't see anyone wanting an end to Quebec forestry and dairy or the automotive industry or even the lame duck of Bombardier. We as a whole are more successful when we're ALL allowed to continue to succeed. We just want a level playing field, & I'd love to see Quebec become so successful that it pays out much more in Equalization than it collects by fully utilizing its own natural resources.

As someone from SK, I also personally HATE that we import oil from outside Canada....but I've read right on this forum in the last 48 hours someone being grateful that they got their oil from Saudi Arabia so as to not have to support CANADIAN Industry. I'm serious. I'm sure not looking down on anyone coming out west to work (& Yes I'm thinking of NB & NL) shoulder to shoulder with those of us that are putting our noses to the grindstone to improve our lives with our labour. If there weren't jobs to be filled there wouldn't be any 'jobs to take.' We as a whole are more successful when we're ALL allowed to continue to succeed.

As far as the Give & Take thing goes, We've given & have demonstrated in this last election that it's a pretty solid voice out here, and if we're expected to continue to give....then Ottawa needs to govern themselves accordingly.




I'll admit you make good points, Ron.

So an idea I thought of is this:


Why doesn't the West form its own party to look/focus in Ottawa about the West's interests? Like the Bloc did for Quebec?


If all those Conservative seats out west were instead focused on a single party representation in Ottawa, do you think it'd make a difference?


Honestly; the Conservative party of today is not the one of even 20 years ago. I don't personally think the Cons of my area of Canada are like the Cons of our West, despite being in the same party. It seems like a lot of the leadership of the Con party does come out of Western Canada though, and a lot of its powerbase now. But the Cons of the West, for some reason, cannot break in anywhere else in Canada and I think they really need to seriously look at why.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

Four years ago talk of separation in Western Canada was tiny and from the tinfoil hat brigade. Four years later it's not just a fringe mulling it over and what is the difference between then & now? I haven't heard anything like this since Justin's Father was the PM, and it wasn't like this. It's not loud blowhard posturing but quiet calm real discussions by normal people. I don't like it. I'm a Canadian and this shouldn't be happening. It's sad that it's at this point that it's not just the tiny tinfoil hat brigade seriously & calmly discussing this. Deriding this isn't going to help the situation out here at all. Quebec is all noise, and this is different as this is a portion of the country that actually gets off their arse's and things done. This shouldn't be taken lightly.


I've seen people I consider friends from the West saying that the West should break away.


I got seriously poed by it the other night.


Now I am just... I don't know what to think. Sad is part of it but it's more than that.


I also wanted to add that in the previous post where you showed the letter from Saskatchewan's Premier, I have to sort of disagree with part of what he said.


While Trudeau does not have a clear mandate, neither does the Conservatives. As I mentioned before, if you look at the numbers and break them down, in the end, Canada rejected the Conservative/right leaning side of politics and kept to the left. If I were Sheer and his Cons, I would look at this as a sign that they really need to fix the Con image, or likely never see full majority control again.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+2
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I'll admit you make good points, Ron.

So an idea I thought of is this:

Why doesn't the West form its own party to look/focus in Ottawa about the West's interests? Like the Bloc did for Quebec?

If all those Conservative seats out west were instead focused on a single party representation in Ottawa, do you think it'd make a difference?
.

I think you're seeing it. That's the point. It's the beginning. Unlike Quebec threating to leave if they don't get paid to be Canadians, the West wants to be able to continue to be successful so that it can continue to pay to be Canadians....but not for $7/day daycare funded by $10,000,000,000/yr Equalization payments while the recipients want to choke us out. That's a bit....shortsighted and disingenuous....in a 'Goose that lays the Golden Eggs' scenario.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
+2
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I'll admit you make good points, Ron.

So an idea I thought of is this:


Why doesn't the West form its own party to look/focus in Ottawa about the West's interests? Like the Bloc did for Quebec?


If all those Conservative seats out west were instead focused on a single party representation in Ottawa, do you think it'd make a difference?


Honestly; the Conservative party of today is not the one of even 20 years ago. I don't personally think the Cons of my area of Canada are like the Cons of our West, despite being in the same party. It seems like a lot of the leadership of the Con party does come out of Western Canada though, and a lot of its powerbase now. But the Cons of the West, for some reason, cannot break in anywhere else in Canada and I think they really need to seriously look at why.

We , already tried that . Remember , the Reform Party , the West wants in . Sadly we had to merge with the centrist conservatives from back east and allowed the message to get swallowed .
 
MHz
+1
#78
Canadians should be considering cleaning up lower Ontario and lower Quebec as that is the power in Canada so that is where the crooks would be. No cleanup means the crooks are in power and will be staying there for the long haul.
Alberta should be looking at taking the Yukon and the NWT and the rest of the north with her. We do have the ability to break away, that is from the mentioned parts so not taking some other parts that are being abused worse than AB is letting the wolves have their way so we are even worse as far as 'lack of morals' that Ottawa. Coming to their 'rescue' is a better reason for separation than bitching about Ottawa giving Ontario and Quebec some AB money when the World Bank gets a lot more than that and way are found to increase the amounts they get with no real change in anything.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
+3
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I've seen people I consider friends from the West saying that the West should break away.

Me too.
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I got seriously poed by it the other night.

Me too.
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Now I am just... I don't know what to think. Sad is part of it but it's more than that.

Me too. SNC Lavalin stock is up after this election, & Husky is announcing hundreds more lay-offs.
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

I also wanted to add that in the previous post where you showed the letter from Saskatchewan's Premier, I have to sort of disagree with part of what he said.

We're all entitled to our opinions.
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

While Trudeau does not have a clear mandate, neither does the Conservatives. As I mentioned before, if you look at the numbers and break them down, in the end, Canada rejected the Conservative/right leaning side of politics and kept to the left. If I were Sheer and his Cons, I would look at this as a sign that they really need to fix the Con image, or likely never see full majority control again.

The Conservative platform was just a tool to show Ottawa the unity out here. Seriously. If there was a "I Poop in you Hat" party (give it the color of Brown on the electoral map) that had a handful of the statements in their platform that the West wanted to make as a statement....the map might be solid brown out West with spots of blue scattered across a few other parts of Canada.
 
MHz
#80
All the West has to do is find some old honest politicians and hook them up with some bright and honest university students and have them open up a Government Watchdog site. Front Page Ckallenge is an example of what they do only the investigations would be swift and deep and totally based on facts. ie, when JT mentioned 'Government Hospitals' in the next month when everybody said not one world about them the 'Watchdogs' would be publishing all sorts of hard to find info from Government documents about just how bad things were as far as how many were dying every year. One estimate has it compared to 5 months of deaths on the front lines of one of the World Wars. SNC would have had all the contracts gone over as well as the more important material that saw them bounced by the World Bank in 2013. BTW, that is why people like that became extinct, they were too good at their job and television was helping them get the real stories out to the public.


Break up the crooks in Ontario and Quebec and Ottawa would have no choice but to jump on the band-wagon and the 'Canada' has it's real 'Arab Spring' moment that fits in with peace in the mid-east and the US and UK being shunned by the world community as the 'bad guys causing all the wars in the 20th Century. Go along with the lie or face another 100 years of war would have the world going along with that.


The EU has a problem with too many Muslim soldiers coming in because NATO lost the war. Canada is a NATO country who should be in deep shit over what has been going on the the north. So much so that a UN force made up of the worst Muslim soldiers and prisoners get a free trip to Canada to help bring in the needed repairs and they would be interested in doing it right as that is their home when the repairs are completed. A few million people needing a bank loan that will cover the 70 years it takes to set up shop. Interest is part of the purchase price with Muslims rather than being a different charge for other Gentiles. Canada's gift to the world for being such pussies for the last 70 years while pretending to be wearing a White Hat. The actual expense will be picked up by the World Bank as they were the ones causing all the wars for more than just the last century.
Last edited by MHz; Oct 23rd, 2019 at 11:21 PM..
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#81
What would it cost to clean up Alberta’s oilpatch? $260 billion, a top official warns

Cleaning up the Alberta oilpatch could cost an estimated $260 billion, internal regulatory documents warn.
The staggering financial liabilities for the energy industry’s mining waste and graveyard of spent facilities were spelled out by a high-ranking official of the Alberta Energy Regulator (AER) in a presentation to a private audience in Calgary in February.
The estimated liabilities are far higher than any liability amount made public by government and industry officials.
The official, Rob Wadsworth, Vice President of Closure and Liability for the AER, says a “flawed system” of industrial oversight is to blame.
He called on all stakeholders to accept tougher regulations and move away from a system that now allows the largest companies to take centuries to clean up their toxic well site graveyards.


https://www.thestar.com/news/investi...ial-warns.html


Leave and you don't get any help cleaning up this ecological disaster.Most of the big oil companies are getting out while the getting is good. They sure as hell ain't gonna clean it up.
 
Serryah
Free Thinker
+1
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post


The Conservative platform was just a tool to show Ottawa the unity out here. Seriously. If there was a "I Poop in you Hat" party (give it the color of Brown on the electoral map) that had a handful of the statements in their platform that the West wanted to make as a statement....the map might be solid brown out West with spots of blue scattered across a few other parts of Canada.


Which is exactly my point.


Do what the Bloc did. Provincially they couldn't do jack shyte about Quebec Separation or Recognition in Federal politics (supposedly; I despise the Bloc and think it should not even be a party, and a lot of other things, but that's another thread), so they formed the Bloc, had it become an actual Federal party, and now they have seats in Ottawa that has forced the Feds to take them seriously and appease them or face backlash.


So why doesn't the West do that? Because, let's be honest here. Right now, the Conservative Party of Canada is really a Western Canada party, with smidges of old school Conservatives speckled here and there elsewhere, but who don't get elected because of the views/stances of the "new" Cons in control out West. Let Old School Cons have the Con party back.
 
Curious Cdn
No Party Affiliation
+2
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

We , already tried that . Remember , the Reform Party , the West wants in . Sadly we had to merge with the centrist conservatives from back east and allowed the message to get swallowed .

The Reform Party kept the West "out" for a whole generation.

Stupid gits.

Heads buried up your asses ...
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Which is exactly my point.


Do what the Bloc did. Provincially they couldn't do jack shyte about Quebec Separation or Recognition in Federal politics (supposedly; I despise the Bloc and think it should not even be a party, and a lot of other things, but that's another thread), so they formed the Bloc, had it become an actual Federal party, and now they have seats in Ottawa that has forced the Feds to take them seriously and appease them or face backlash.


So why doesn't the West do that? Because, let's be honest here. Right now, the Conservative Party of Canada is really a Western Canada party, with smidges of old school Conservatives speckled here and there elsewhere, but who don't get elected because of the views/stances of the "new" Cons in control out West. Let Old School Cons have the Con party back.

The old school cons from back east do have their party back . That is how and why the milkman was elected leader , as that side of the party control him . The platform the conservatives put out was a centrist policy designed to appeal to disenchanted liberals .
 
pgs
Free Thinker
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

The Reform Party kept the West "out" for a whole generation.

Stupid gits.

Heads buried up your asses ...

Yes but they were the catalyst for the comeback of the Joe Who conservatives . Party of also rams .
 
petros
+4
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I never voted liberal in my life.
And BC doesn't want to separate.Why would we join Alberta and be bullied into take your phuking pipelines?

Sorry buddy, BC is part of the rapidly growing WEXIT movement and the majority in BC want pipelines.

You really need to get out more instead of watching youtube all night.
 
petros
+2
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by pgs View Post

The old school cons from back east do have their party back . That is how and why the milkman was elected leader , as that side of the party control him . The platform the conservatives put out was a centrist policy designed to appeal to disenchanted liberals .

There will be a non-confidence vote within 8 months and we'll be voting again.
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+1
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

The Reform Party kept the West "out" for a whole generation.
Stupid gits.
Heads buried up your asses ...

The Reform party helped lead the Prairie voters away from the dead horse NDP party and focused it against the ruling Elite party, then had to water it down by merging with the PC party so Ont. would take it seriously. Ont. rebelled against Harper because he treated the East the same as the West, shiney pony stole 2015 by promising Ont. all their goodies back and pitted East against West by using the age old Lib. playbook.
Last edited by Twin_Moose; Oct 24th, 2019 at 10:15 AM..
 
Twin_Moose
Conservative
+1
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

He was trying to sell a Trumpite message. Canadians are smarter than Americans.

No he wasn't, you're just trolling like usual, he shouldn't have taken his foot off 'lil potato's neck because the Eastern MSM was calling him a meany.
 
Hoid
+1
#90
he should have given people something to vote for