The Guardian: Occupy was right: capitalism has failed the world


petros
+2
#31
The green beans doing the reclamation and ensuring Ecofriendly practises are about me?

I have a lot of respect for the enviro scientists who work their as$es off but zero respect for armchair activists who slam the work of those who actually doing what others think they aren't.

Do you believe the environmental scientists working in field have it all wrong, are throttled by employers, overwhelmed by greed or were evil to begin with because of who they work for?

Girl up
 
Tecumsehsbones
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

The green beans doing the reclamation and ensuring Ecofriendly practises are about me?

No, this conversation is about you. You're interesting to me. Consider that a compliment.

Quote:

I have a lot of respect for the enviro scientists who work their as$es off but zero respect for armchair activists who slam the work of those who actually doing what others think they aren't.

Will you accept that activists sometimes have a point? That if it weren't for their rabble-rousing, the money guys would ignore the enviro scientists completely (this goes back to my question of whether you think the extraction companies would reclaim the land out of the goodness of their hearts if they were completely unregulated).

Quote:

Do you believe the environmental scientists working in field have it all wrong, are throttled by employers, overwhelmed by greed or were evil to begin with because of who they work for?

I don't care who they work for. Never did. In many ways the guys within the system are far more effective than the yapping "activists." But again, I've heard you heap plenty of contempt on the environmental activists, and I've never heard you heap similar contempt on the corporate lobbyists trying to weaken environmental standards to the point where they can do their extraction thing and then move on, leaving a toxic dump behind.

Quote:

Girl up

No, I'm not going to date you.
 
petros
#33
Do you not litter because laws tell you not to or you just don't because you think it's wrong?

What gave you idea resource companies would dump and trash the globe like it was 1950 if given the option?

What is the point of resource companies hiring environmental scientists when the armchair as$holes keep slamming their good work?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

What gave you idea resource companies would dump and trash the globe like it was 1950 if given the option?

Umm. . . the fact that they did exactly that until they were required by law to reclaim the land? And the fact that in countries where they are not so required, they leave the land desolate and poisoned (like Nigeria)?

Quote:

What is the point of resource companies hiring environmental scientists when the armchair as$holes keep slamming their good work?

So, somebody talks bad about you, and you're going to pack it in and stomp off in a huff?

Pony up.
 
B00Mer
No Party Affiliation
+1
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

I worked my way through law school.

 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Do you not litter because laws tell you not to or you just don't because you think it's wrong?

Because I care and it is wrong. I have never seen anybody get busted for littering.

Quote:

What gave you idea resource companies would dump and trash the globe like it was 1950 if given the option?

They still do. A lot of it ends up underground where nobody can see it but it still degrades the the environment.

Quote:

What is the point of resource companies hiring environmental scientists when the armchair as$holes keep slamming their good work?

They hire environmental scientists because it is the law, not because they have a conscience. The bottom line is all that matters to capitalists. People rise to the position of CEO because they are sociopaths and psychopaths. They have no conscience, empathy or sympathy for anybody. They are ruthless and if they tell an environmental scientist in their employ to bury evidence, it gets buried or they are fired or black balled.
 
petros
#37
So the green beans hired by resource companies are sweeping everything under the rug? Why?
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#38
Capitalism works
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

So the green beans hired by resource companies are sweeping everything under the rug? Why?

Not everything but some and because they are afraid to lose their cushy jobs like everybody else. They have mortgages and are in dept like everybody else - they are wage slaves to the bank.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Capitalism works

Only for capitalists. Not so much for wage slaves.
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Only for capitalists. Not so much for wage slaves.

Converting from a wage slave to capitalist only requires a piece of paper
 
petros
#41
Trapesing around the woods all freakin' day is a cushy job?

As I was saying about clueless armchair activists...
 
Tonington
+2
#42
Yes, corporations are all great and will do nothing but good for us all if left alone. I really doubt anyone could believe that. I've worked for a pharmaceutical company since graduation, and they've been very good to me- development opportunities, competitive wages, and rewarding challenges to work on. I'm very happy where I am. My job is fulfilling and I work with great people.

But, I'm not deluded. Without regulators, without critics watching, make no mistake that liberties would be taken. Even with the rules we do have, doctors get kick backs, perks, and sometimes they're actually caught making claims about the data people like me produce, data that don't say what the marketers tell the doctors to say to patients. Claiming something the label wouldn't allow them to say. That's my job, to run the studies to fill out the information on the label.

I take a lot of pride in producing a product that reduces antibiotic usage. Products that are safe for the fish and the people who consume them. Products that not only don't contribute to antibiotic resistance, but products that through their use actually reduce the pressure on horizontal transfer of resistant antimicrobial genes. Vaccines that are allowing other companies to grow and thus employ more people. Vaccines that improve animal welfare. Vaccines that make other people more money.

The gals and guys who work taking samples for the oil companies aren't evil. But their employers are no less scrupulous than the MBAs running my company when it comes to maximizing profit. If given the chance, like PoliticalNick says, they will maximize the return to investors in any way they can get away with. They are doing it now, and if they aren't they should be fired in the system we have.

That's not a failure of capitalism. That's a failure of the political system we have to contain this sort of behaviour. Ask DB, he'll tell you that the two are corollary. He's not wrong.

Ask someone who works in regulatory affairs and they'll tell you. It's easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.
 
petros
#43
Quote:

The gals and guys who work taking samples for the oil companies aren't evil. But their employers are no less scrupulous than the MBAs running my company when it comes to maximizing profit. If given the chance, like PoliticalNick says, they will maximize the return to investors in any way they can get away with. They are doing it now, and if they aren't they should be fired in the system we have

Are corners being cut or is this an armchair opinion?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Trapesing around the woods all freakin' day is a cushy job?

As I was saying about clueless armchair activists...

I spent many years traipsing around the woods picking wild mushrooms for a living. It is hard work but it is also very rewarding and fun. Sitting in an office picking your nose is very hard work because it is boring as stink.
 
petros
#45
Apparently the company you work for needs to be scrutinized as harshly as resources.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I spent many years traipsing around the woods picking wild mushrooms for a living. It is hard work but it is also very rewarding and fun. Sitting in an office picking your nose is very hard work because it is boring as stink.

Who are these green beans sitting in their office picking their nose Cliffy? If you green beans are a bunch of nose pickers you may as well give up on your cause and burn your soap box for heat.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Who are these green beans sitting in their office picking their nose Cliffy? If you green beans are a bunch of nose pickers you may as well give up on your cause and burn your soap box for heat.

I'm not talking about environmentalist sitting in offices. Hardest job I ever had was being a drafting supervisor, best job was picking wild edible mushrooms, second best was farming.

I have seen placer miners dumping their settling ponds on Sunday because the environment ministry workers had a day off. I've seen hundreds of oil cans left out on logging landing with old tires and big oil patches on the ground from when they change the oil on a cat or loader in the bush. There have been dozens of reports of illegal and improper toxic and nuclear waste dumping. Cancer rates are soaring on reserves down stream from the oil sands, fish with tumors and three eyes and many other aberrations in the Athabaska. Cominco has been dumping toxic waste in the Columbia for a hundred years because it is cheaper to pay the fines than dispose of them properly. I could go on all night but I think I have said enough for those who are willing to look. But, you keep on thinking corporations are benevolent because your blinders are firmly affixed. Nothing anybody says will change your mind. The rapers and pillagers will keep on no mater what because money is the new god, capitalism its religion.
 
Tonington
+1
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Are corners being cut or is this an armchair opinion?

I haven't seen corners cut, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. The company I work for employs over a hundred thousand people. No organization that big will be without at least a few who are willing to cut corners.

Pharmaceuticals, oil companies, banks, grocers...what industry without sin would you hoist up? Careful, don't look up at the same time.
 
petros
#48
Quote:

Cancer rates are soaring on reserves down stream from the oil sands, fish with tumors and three eyes and many other aberrations in the Athabaska.

They always been high it's the nature of the beast meaning it has always been that way since a long long time ago.

At what point did I ever mention environmentalists sitting in offices or you just skimmed through and pissed all over the truth of who is doing what when it comes to doing it as clean and green as possible?

The doors were kicked open on resources for the greens ages ago and they were given free reign on reclamation and effluent management if you don't like what your own kind are doing then be very clear and explain who you do want and what you want them to do as green industry leaders.

Have you reported your local travesties to officials or are you speaking of things you saw 40 years ago?

Now for Tonington.

Are you aware of the scrutiny in resources or you can only comment on your own industry? If you claim all sciences are susceptible to human nature why do you discount the work of the greens who were given free reign by resource industries yet believe the climate fear and loathing hook line and sphincter?

Either you trust science or you don't which is it?
 
Twila
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post


I think it very hilarious that you think that just because an environmental scientist works in resources they must be evil, greedy or gotten to by some omnipresent power wielding a big stick.

I never said that. You are conjecturing or projecting. I only asked why you thought it impossible since it was your defence that enviro scientists are were pure and ther tar sands were green.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#50
So who pays the bills for the "thinkers" that come up wth these poorly thought out ideas?
 
petros
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

I never said that. You are conjecturing or projecting. I only asked why you thought it impossible since it was your defence that enviro scientists are were pure and therl tar sands were green.

Of course it isn't impossible but at the first iota of men and women who went to the frontlines hired by resource industries with nothing but good intentions automatically were dubbed as corrupted simply because of who signs their cheques.

That is a big leap.

If people with an eco-agenda are given the keys to their enemies castle, why aren't they trusted to bring forth what they find.

Scientists can use Crime Stoppers and TIP lines too. Where are all the complaints from the insiders?

TIP will put you in direct contact with the nearest CO who has the power the make arrests.
 
Twila
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Of course it isn't impossible but at the first iota of men and women who went to the frontlines hired by resource industries with nothing but good intentions automatically were dubbed as corrupted simply because of who signs their cheques.

That is a big leap.

If people with an eco-agenda are given the keys to their enemies castle, why aren't they trusted to bring forth what they find.

Scientists can use Crime Stoppers and TIP lines too. Where are all the complaints from the insiders?

TIP will put you in direct contact with the nearest CO who has the power the make arrests.

You know the saying "No good deed goes unpunished"? I don't think you believe that a human being with all it's faults wouldn't be worried ( and sometimes with good cause, but not always) about repercussions.

I'm not suggesting corruption only happens on the side of for profit/resource based companies. I know that even with the "do good" organizations corruption and lies happen.

There are overzealous people of every stripe.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+1
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Not everything but some and because they are afraid to lose their cushy jobs like everybody else. They have mortgages and are in dept like everybody else - they are wage slaves to the bank.


Only for capitalists. Not so much for wage slaves.

If it wasn't for capitalists there would not be a lot of employment for wage slaves. Do you really think freeloaders are going to provide a bunch of good paying jobs.
 
petros
+2
#54
Cliff has it rough on disability. He's a slave to the man.
 
Tonington
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Now for Tonington.

Are you aware of the scrutiny in resources or you can only comment on your own industry? If you claim all sciences are susceptible to human nature why do you discount the work of the greens who were given free reign by resource industries yet believe the climate fear and loathing hook line and sphincter?

Either you trust science or you don't which is it?

So the answer is no, you can't name an industry without sin. That's a lot of words and way off topic to simply say no Petros.

As for trusting science or not, I trust good science. Your either or scenario is a logical fallacy. Do you know what type?
 
petros
+2
#56
Good science? As opposed to what? Are you another one who slams the work of science if it doesn't fit you belief system?

You can't have it both ways Mr. Peabody.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+2
#57
Good science should. Be unbiased and just state the facts. Difficult to do when there are agenda driven groups that have a preconceived result and attempt to skew the data to match their conclusion.
 
Tonington
+1
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Good science? As opposed to what?

As opposed to not good science...all that matters is that the methods and analysis are appropriate, and that the conclusions follow from the results.

You're the one trying to paint it as the science of one group-green beans- versus another-corporations. I'm the scientist telling you it's a false dilemma.
 
Count_Lothian
#59
You can kill yourself by turning on your car and closing the garage door.
Oil spills kill.

It's not good for any life forms .

When is enough going to be enough.

When gas hit $1.49 a litre in Toronto all of a sudden everyone was talking about electric cars a few years ago.

Harper gave out tax credits or something if you bought a vehicle with some sort of so called eco engine .

Gas went down 30 cents and everyone clammed up.

It's all insane.

My air stinks, but it isn't as bad as Beijing so we are OK?

It's all insane.

I'm old enough to have plutonium in my bones from nuclear testing.
here one of a thousand
http://jrr.oxfordjournals.org/conten...A/A85.full.pdf


It's all insane.

If you lived during Chernobyl your poisoned.

It's all insane.

The Fukashima plant is still spewing out radiation because they do not want to waste land and do what they did in Chernobyl.

this was posted 7 hours ago
http://rt.com/news/fukushima-radioac...eak-water-324/

It's all insane.

I am not a greenbean , just worried.
 
mentalfloss
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington View Post

So the answer is no, you can't name an industry without sin. That's a lot of words and way off topic to simply say no Petros.

As for trusting science or not, I trust good science. Your either or scenario is a logical fallacy. Do you know what type?

Logical fallacy?

What kind of elitist ivory tower nonsense you spewin' Tonn?