Religion is like a boat

Cliffy
#121
A rational, secular, historical perspective on the history of Christianity and its scripture


The reality is that it is all true to an extent, and equally nonsensical at the same time. The Bible has meaning to all its readers, but it is important to consider that the meaning it has is informed by the prejudices the reader brings to it.

To really understand the Bible and what it intends to say to present generations, it is necessary to understand who wrote it and why, and the cultural context in which it was written. The story is an interesting one, in no small part because the story is so much messier than most of its advocates would have you to believe. And its very messiness is why it is a story rarely told in any completeness to Christian audiences.
The overriding theme of the Bible storylines is the theme of cultural conquest. Conquest by the Hebrews over their enemy neighbors, culturally by the Jews over the Israelites (used here to mean members of the ten "lost" tribes), the Christians over the Jews, the Catholics over the Gnostics, Marcionites, and other pre-Catholic factions, and on and on. In some cases, the conquest is recorded as a historical, often military event. In others, it merely is recorded as a change in content and context, an alteration of the storyline and outlook and worldview.
And the story of the editing and translation of the final form of the Bible into what today is regarded as holy scripture is a story not just of cultural conquest, but of political intrigues, and not just between competing bishops, but with secular political authority itself. It is as if the U.S. congress or president were to decide what constituted Christian doctrine and scripture, and everyone went along - at the peril of their lives - until no one even questioned the accuracy of the official viewpoint.
The effect of its origins as selected parts of whole bodies of scripture, written by at least a hundred and fifty different people in dozens of different places at different times, many centuries apart, and for different reasons, colors what its authors wrote. Yet that simple fact is widely ignored, both by people who naively follow what they read in it as the inerrant word of God, and by more liberal scholastic theologians, who seek to understand its historical context as well as a body of doctrinal scripture, which they often blindly follow, even though they know full well its messy origins.

MORE: The Bible And Christianity -- The Historical Origins
 
Ludlow
+1
#122
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Except you seem to be having trouble coming up with any specifics because when you do try to form a 'rebuttal' it is quite clear that your version is the one that is sloppy in form a void of any 'thinking' that would help people understand the large volume of text that is known as the Bible. If your version was correct I would shy away from posting on any topic, as it is I can spot your flaws and offer a 'solution'. You and 'the others' can't do either yet I am supposed to view you as the expert. You can see that isn't about to happen anytime soon and if the quality of your replies doesn't improve that will only confirm that you are clueless about the subject and your posts are meant to shut down debate rather than promote it like it should.

More than once I have 10 post in the top 10 positions and all are on topic and follow the rules of science or is consistent with the way society can work when it is used as a control device used to keep people in the dark compared to enlightening them to the 'real facts'.

When you are 'studying me' why is it you that is always the most confused? No examination of you is need as your replies show quite clearly that you hang on other people's coat-tails.

taketh the pilleths. Amen.
 
MHz
+1
#123
Your Catch 22 thread kind of killed that retort for you, better come up with a new one. lol
 
personal touch
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Your Catch 22 thread kind of killed that retort for you, better come up with a new one. lol

How did you gather all this knowledge?
Education?self taught?
You are very interesting, keep on writing.
 
Cliffy
+1
#125
 
darkbeaver
#126
Religion has a meaning, in essence it require a binding back to the origin, you will all remember the power of home if you just surrender to your feelings, forget your rational self, it'/s just thier to test you

Mark Twain was a smartass.
 
Dexter Sinister
#127
Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

Obviously I am observant and intelligent.

Yes you are, that IS obvious and I've said so before, nobody could be as articulate as you are otherwise, but that isn't enough by itself. It doesn't mean you must be right. My point from the beginning has always been that, having read several versions of the Bible and exegetical works about it by people with legitimate scholarly qualifications in the field, notably Dr. Bart Ehrman and Tom Harpur, and having a university education and a 35 year career immersed in scientific matters, I do not find your analysis and exposition of the Bible credible. In other words, I don't believe you, I think you're wrong. That's all.
 
darkbeaver
+1
#128
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Yes you are, that IS obvious and I've said so before, nobody could be as articulate as you are otherwise, but that isn't enough by itself. It doesn't mean you must be right. My point from the beginning has always been that, having read several versions of the Bible and exegetical works about it by people with legitimate scholarly qualifications in the field, notably Dr. Bart Ehrman, and having a university education and a 35 year career immersed in scientific matters, I do not find your analysis and exposition of the Bible credible. In other words, I don't believe you, I think you're wrong. That's all.

I think he's wrong as well, I also think you're wrong, you're an idiot of another kind.

And when I use the word idiot, it's in a friendly way, there's notjing wrong with being a bit slow.
 
Cliffy
+1
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Religion has a meaning, in essence it require a binding back to the origin, you will all remember the power of home if you just surrender to your feelings, forget your rational self, it'/s just thier to test you

Mark Twain was a smartass.

 
darkbeaver
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

There is only one path, you will tread that way, if not this time, then the next, but you will go that way or no way
 
Cliffy
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

I think he's wrong as well, I also think you're wrong, you're an idiot of another kind.

And when I use the word idiot, it's in a friendly way, there's notjing wrong with being a bit slow.

In the end, it matters not what others think or believe because it is you who controls your universe, it does not control you. That is true of each and every one. There is no smart or dumb. just different perspectives.
 
darkbeaver
+1
#132
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

In the end, it matters not what others think or believe because it is you who controls your universe, it does not control you. That is true of each and every one. There is no smart or dumb. just different perspectives.

For sure, it's your apple, we know and respect each other, was it hard did it cost a lot did we bleed, no sir a fukkin smile and a nod sealed the deal, pufft, nice is powerful, when in doubt be nice
 
Dexter Sinister
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

I think he's wrong as well, I also think you're wrong, you're an idiot of another kind.

And when I use the word idiot, it's in a friendly way, there's notjing wrong with being a bit slow.

There is no friendly way to call someone an idiot. Stop pretending you're nice guy. You're not.
 
darkbeaver
#134
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

There is no friendly way to call someone an idiot. Stop pretending you're nice guy. You're not.

Hey sinister, I'm the idiot I keep refering too. Idiot.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

There is no friendly way to call someone an idiot. Stop pretending you're nice guy. You're not.

Sinister, you're a person of potential intelligence, perhaps your children will realize that potential, I'm sure they will

They have every reason to suspect that thier old man was all brain, why we have become advwersarys is because you will not adopt reality,
 
Dexter Sinister
#135
You are an alien mind
 
JLM
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

There is no friendly way to call someone an idiot. Stop pretending you're nice guy. You're not.


Intellectually challenged, perhaps.
 
darkbeaver
#137
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

You are an alien mind

How so Mr Sinister? I cannot imagine how I might be thought of as alien since I am convinced of my terrestrial origin by virtue of my deficiets, what'

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Intellectually challenged, perhaps.

You are a divious old man. I got my eyes on you buddy>
 
Cliffy
#138
 
DaSleeper
#139
 
Cliffy
#140
You know Sleepy, if you have a problem it is your problem. Trying to make it someone else's problem is not taking responsibility for your own shit. I feel sorry for you. You are still suffering from retarded adolescence. One day you might grow up, but I won't hold my breath.

 
DaSleeper
+1
#141
 
Cliffy
#142
 
DaSleeper
#143
https://psychcentral.com/cgi-bin/facebook-addict.cgi
 
Durry
#144
ICE Raids Dozens of Convenience Stores in MASSIVE Move…
But Look What the Media’s Hiding!

by Brian Hayes | Top Right News

President Trump unleashed ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) once again this week, this time deploying its Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) unit, along with the DEA to arrest dozens of convenience store owners across 4 states. Over 60 people were arrested, and already 35 of them have been indicted by a Federal grand jury, with federal conspiracy charges for money laundering, distributing controlled substances and trafficking contraband cigarettes.

The AP carried this story:

The suspects conspired for more than 2 years to buy contraband cigarettes in St. Louis, a low tax market, while transporting and distributing them in Chicago, Illinois, and New Jersey, which are high tax markets. The store owners are accused of using several convenience stores that they operated to create the appearance of legal cigarette purchases. Illegal profits form the contraband cigarette sales were laundered through accounts associated with the stores, and used to manufacture and distribute illegal controlled substances.

A synthetic drug, K-2, was sold every day from a handful of the convenience stores. Authorities said the store owners manufactured synthetic drugs themselves by importing chemicals from China.

“The collaboration with our federal and local law enforcement partners is the key to breaking criminal enterprises in this area,” said Special Agent in Charge James M. Gibbons of HSI Chicago.

“Synthetic drugs that are sold as substitutes for cocaine and methamphetamine, are neither legal nor safe,” said James P. Shroba, Special Agent in Charge of the DEA St. Louis Division. “These substances were never intended for human consumption and only serve to satisfy the avarice of the seller.”

If convicted, the defendants face a maximum of five to 20 years in prison and a $1 million dollar fine.

But here’s what the Associated “Press” didn’t think you needed to know…the names of those indicted. See if you notice any pattern…

Mohammed Almuttan, aka Abu Ali, 35, St. Louis, MO
Rami Almuttan, aka Abu Louay, 33, St. Louis, MO
Hisham Mutan, aka Abu Mohamed, 41, St. Louis, MO
Saddam Mutan, aka Abu Ali, 24, St. Louis, MO
Mazin Abdelsalam, aka Abu Mohammad, 38, St. Louis, MO
Najeh Muhana, aka Abu Yazan, 41, Fairview, NJ
Fares Muhana, aka Abu Yamama, 40, Cliffside Park, NJ
Ayoub Qaiymah, aka Abu Faysal, 23, Richmond, VA
Naser Abid, 23, Chicago, IL
Yadgar Barzanji, aka Abu Siver, 47, St. Louis, MO
Wafaa Alwan, 50, St. Louis, MO
Ahmed Abuali, aka Bazilla, 31, North Bergen, NJ
Mohammed Kayed, aka Mohammed Fayez, 21, Clifton, NJ
Momen Abuali, 20, Little Ferry, NJ
Firat Sevindik, 42, Cliffside Park, NJ
Mohammed Mustafa, 30, North Bergen, NJ
Mohammad Karashqah, Abu Yazid, 47, North Bergen, NJ
Fayez Sheikha, 46, Mishawaka, IN
Jihad Shihadeh, Abu Malik, 58, Chicago Ridge, IL
Ismael Abadi, 57, Carol Stream, IL
Abed Hamed, Abed Fawzan, 39, Greenville, NC
Maher Hamed, Abu Alazara, 33, Swansea, IL
Abdel Adi, 25, Oak Lawn, IL
Muhanad Khatib, Abu Alamin, 36, Chicago, IL
Eyad Awad, 38, Chicago, IL
Ismael Mustafa, 60, Kankakee, IL
Hayder Al Fatli, 40, St. Louis, MO
Kutlay Guvener, 35, Chicago, IL
Saad Al Mallak, 30, Dittmer, MO
Hassan Abdelatif, 29, Collinsville, IL
Mahajir Naz, 32, St. Louis, MO
Talal Abuajaj, 23, St. Louis, MO
Basem Hamdan, aka Abu Ramiz, 57, St. Louis, MO
Zainal Saleh, 29, St. Louis, MO and
Ibrahim Awad, 39, St. Louis, MO

That’s right…every single one of the 35 men indicted is Muslim. Nothing to see here, huh? And there’s more. According to sources, “at least 20” of the men are being held on additional “immigration detainers” by ICE. That means they are “suspected illegal aliens.”

The AP didn’t feel you needed to know that either. I’m sure it just slipped their minds. This is just the latest in a continuing series of Muslim-owned convenience store criminal enterprises.

As TRN reported, in 2015 state authorities in Alabama uncovered a massive, EBT-for-terrorism scheme in which Muslim-owned convenience stores exploited the U.S. welfare system to fund ISIS. The massive probe, dubbed Operation T-bone, targeted those they say have been cheating the food stamp system to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars and sending the profits via wire transfer to Yemen, some of which is suspected to have funded Islamic State (ISIS) terrorist activity.


And back then it was Alabama D.A. who led the investigation — not the Obama keystone cops, who strangely had nothing to do with that bust.
All 11 stores shut down by authorities were Muslim-owned. There is a long history of Muslims using welfare systems for criminal activity, as well as purposely abusing the system. As we reported in 2013, a prominent Muslim cleric called on Muslim immigrants in Western nations to purposely
collect government welfare as a so-called “Jihad Seeker’s Allowance.”

But during the last 8 years, Obama And His Muslim Administration has neglected this problem, whether deliberately or from incompetence.

And you wonder why Trump is trying to block Muslim immigration ???
 
Danbones
+1
#145
First he should send the main stream Media to a muslim country till they get their sh!t together
(...or any country the u$ is droning or bombing, or growing heroin in like Afghanistan)

then they can come back if they can get through immigration
 
petros
+1
#146
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

No you didn't, you provided a correlation that I've seen before, not proof of a causal relationship. And whether or not faith improves human well being has no bearing on whether or not the beliefs in question are correct.

Are you saying the placebo effect doesn't work or you don't believe it does work?

Belief is central to the placebo effect.

If they believe God is helping them to heal it works 30% of the time.

Next
 
Cliffy
#147
 
JLM
+1
#148
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Are you saying the placebo effect doesn't work or you don't believe it does work?

Belief is central to the placebo effect.

If they believe God is helping them to heal it works 30% of the time.

Next


Comes under the heading of "self fulfilling prophecies".
 
Cliffy
#149
Woke up today to another race/religious tragedy filling the news. Actually first heard about it last night and as a result did not sleep well. Couldn’t help imagining how terrifying it must have been for those being slaughtered while in the midst of praying.
Some are trying to say he was not a Christian so religious hatred was not an issue. He only hated immigrants is the claim made by some, as if that somehow lessened the evil of his hatred. Those folks conveniently forgot or maybe never knew the origin of race and religious based hatred of immigrants was white Christian nationalism, which has been around for a very long time.
One has to wonder why the Abrahamic faiths all fail so miserably in inspiring the best in “all” their devotees. Every one of these faiths has at various times been hijacked by religious nationalists of one stripe or another. [Mostly but not exclusively white] Christian nationalists embracing ethnic cleansing, Wahabi jihad inspired Muslim nationalists embracing ethnic cleansing, and Zionist Jews embracing ethnic cleansing, are all products of these faiths. What on earth is wrong with theses faiths? How is it that so many folks within these religions can completely miss the message of love that is heard by other devotees who are also part of these religions?
Maybe the many religious labels worn by humans are just “labels” signifying nothing at all, just false identities. Maybe the good people in these faiths are only those who psychologically can step out of such labels and see things through a label free measure of love.
Maybe these faiths have such deep flaws they will never be reconciled with the equality that love suggests. Maybe we should step away from such flawed identity based belief systems. After all, if one’s religion does not inspire unconditional love for everyone, what is the point of it existing? Maybe such failed religions should all be thrown on the trash heap of history. We can do so much better by simply being loving humans without labels. We really can. It sure would end a lot of fear and suffering in this world. - Chris Waller

 
Curious Cdn
#150
"Religion is like a boat"

One oar only in the water ...
 

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