Atheism a creed that needs the same religious protections of Christianity and Islam:


Goober
#1
Atheism a creed that needs the same religious protections of Christianity and Islam: Ontario Human Rights Tribunal

Atheism a creed that needs the same religious protections of Christianity and Islam: Ontario Human Rights Tribunal | National Post

Atheism is a creed deserving of the the same religious protections as Christianity, Islam, and other faiths, the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal has ruled in a new decision.

“Protection against discrimination because of religion, in my view, must include protection of the applicants’ belief that there is no deity,” wrote David A. Wright, associate chair of the commission, in an August 13 decision.

The ruling was spurred by a complaint from self-described secular humanist Rene Chouinard, who was opposing the District School Board of Niagara’s policy regarding the distribution of Gideon bibles.

Since 1964, as in the rest of Canada, the Gideons had offered free red Bibles to Grade 5 students in the district—provided the students had first obtained parental consent.

Three years ago, in a protest move, Mr. Choinard, a Grimsby, Ont. father of two school-age children, offered to similarly distribute the Atheist text “Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children.”

When, as Mr. Chouinard expected, the board rejected his offer, he took his case to the Human Rights Tribunal, alleging that the school district has “discriminated against them … because of creed.”

The District School Board of Niagara has since updated their policy to welcome the distribution of other religious texts, so long as the religion is included in the Ontario Multifaith Information Manual, a periodically updated book detailing the beliefs, holy books and dietary restrictions of groups ranging from Hare Krishnas to to Rastafarians.

So far, no other religious group aside from the Gideons has taken the school board up on the offer and, as the manual does not include atheists or other non-believers, Mr, Chouinard’s proposal remained ineligible.

For that reason, on August 13th the Human Rights Tribunal ruled that the policy was biased.

“The policy was discriminatory because its definition of acceptable materials violated substantive equality by excluding the kinds of materials central to many creeds,” reads the decision.

Not only did it block Atheist texts, wrote the Tribunal, but texts by Falun Gong and other “emerging or non-traditional creeds.” The decision also noted that some creeds, such as Native Spiritual Beliefs, do not even have texts.

The restriction to sacred or foundational texts excludes some creeds and is therefore discriminatory

Even some Christian texts, if they were not deemed sacred enough, were banned by the policy.

“The restriction to sacred or foundational texts excludes some creeds and is therefore discriminatory,” read the ruling.

Throughout, Mr. Chouinard has maintained that his intention was not to put bundles of “Just Pretend,” a book that treats God as a make-believe figure, into the hands of schoolchildren — but rather to critique the current policy.

“We believe that if non-theistic materials were distributed in an Ontario Public School … people would insist that the Public School system is not the place for people with a religious agenda; and that is exactly our point!” he wrote in a letter to the school council.

Ultimately, the Human Rights Tribunal had no objection to the Gideons distributing bibles, provided that “participation is optional” and that all creeds were included under school policy.

“If [the school board] is prepared to distribute permission forms proposing the distribution of Christian texts to committed atheists, it must also be prepared to distribute permission forms proposing the distribution of atheist texts to religious Christians,” wrote Mr. Wright.

Under a Human Rights Tribunal Order, if the school board wants to continue to allow the distribution of Gideon bibles, it has six months to draw up a new policy “permitting distribution of creed and religious publications in its schools.”
 
petros
+4
#2
Quote:

Atheism is a creed deserving of the the same religious protections as
Christianity, Islam, and other faiths, the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal has
ruled in a new decision.

When did Atheism become a Religion? How do you protect nothing?
 
talloola
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

When did Atheism become a Religion? How do you protect nothing?

that is true, and if all atheists would just live their lives, 'not' believing,' and leave it at
that, whatever the other religions or government would decide or say wouldn't matter a damn,
but some can't leave it at that.

there is 'no' need for books for atheists, they just need to grow up very aware of the world around
them, and decide which road they want to travel, its a free choice.

i do think that religious education is beneficial, learning is beneficial, without preaching, allow
the individual to find their own way. If atheism is the choice eventually, there is no need to have
read or studied any written material to get there, 'freedom' to think for themselves is the key.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+4
#4
Atheism isn't a creed at all. It's just refusal to accept a whopper without the first shred of evidence. That ain't a creed. That's just sense.
 
WLDB
+1
#5
As an atheist I find this annoying. Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief. Should we have a creed for people who do not believe unicorns exist as well? Should Christians Jews and Muslims have a creed about not believing in the ancient Greek or Roman gods? Aside from not believing in the existence of gods atheists have very little in common by and large. Ayn Rand was an atheist and I disagree with her on almost everything. One of my friends who is an atheist thinks pre-marital sex is bad. I have absolutely no idea why he thinks that. Doesnt make much sense to me but it is what he thinks.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

As an atheist I find this annoying. Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief. Should we have a creed for people who do not believe unicorns exist as well? Should Christians Jews and Muslims have a creed about not believing in the ancient Greek or Roman gods? Aside from not believing in the existence of gods atheists have very little in common by and large. Ayn Rand was an atheist and I disagree with her on almost everything. One of my friends who is an atheist thinks pre-marital sex is bad. I have absolutely no idea why he thinks that. Doesnt make much sense to me but it is what he thinks.

Well, maybe for him it has been.
 
Spade
#7
On behalf of trolls and ogres, I must say atheism is a definite threat.
 
Zipperfish
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

When did Atheism become a Religion? How do you protect nothing?

This. What needs to be removed is the part of the Constitution on Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Religion is a special of right given to members of Big Religion that is not extended to those of smaller religions or those who have no religion.

We already have freedom of speech, belief, conscience, thought, expression etc. What extra freedom does "freedom of religion" bring? Mostly the right to wear funny hats. Which I really don't see as something that needs to be in the Constitution.
Last edited by Zipperfish; Aug 28th, 2013 at 03:19 PM..Reason: clarity
 
damngrumpy
#9
I wonder why some want to make such a lot of noise about nothing. If you believe
in nothing what is there to talk about when it comes to this?
I listen to both sides and both tell some whoppers. But how can you believe in
nothing is something isn't is not there?
The only protection required is people should have the right to believe or not believe
whatever they want without interference from the State
 
WLDB
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Zipperfish View Post


We already have freedom of speech, belief, conscience, thought, expression etc. What extra freedom does "freedom of religion" bring? Mostly the right to wear funny hats. Which I really don't see as something that needs to be in the Constitution.

I doubt it would make much of a difference but hey, why not put it on the table for the next time the constitution is opened up. I imagine that wont happen at all for quite some time unfortunately.
 
Goober
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Zipperfish View Post

This. What needs to be removed is the part of the Constitution on Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Religion is a special of right given to members of Big Religion that is not extended to those of smaller religions or those who have no religion.

We already have freedom of speech, belief, conscience, thought, expression etc. What extra freedom does "freedom of religion" bring? Mostly the right to wear funny hats. Which I really don't see as something that needs to be in the Constitution.

Well get covered, convert. I charge a fee for this. But it can be done.
Ah special rate for you my UN friend, just for you very good deal. You buy, yes?
 
Zipperfish
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

I doubt it would make much of a difference but hey, why not put it on the table for the next time the constitution is opened up. I imagine that wont happen at all for quite some time unfortunately.

Yes I doubt it would. When you give people a special right, over and above what others get, they hang onto it for dear life. Look at the aboriginals. They despise the Indian Act, yet they would never give it up.
 
karrie
+4
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

there is 'no' need for books for atheists, they just need to grow up very aware of the world around
them, and decide which road they want to travel, its a free choice.


That may be true of you, but, much in the same way many Christians don't represent me, many atheists I've met aren't like you. Many need validation of their belief (or lack of belief, however you want to say it) through others. They need the Dawkins' of the world to tell them they are right, they need to mock people who think differently than them, they need to argue their world view at every turn.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Atheism isn't a creed at all. It's just refusal to accept a whopper without the first shred of evidence. That ain't a creed. That's just sense.


Theism and atheism are good mirror images of one another, and just as theism has different ideas and followers within it, so does atheism.
 
Goober
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Zipperfish View Post

This. What needs to be removed is the part of the Constitution on Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Religion is a special of right given to members of Big Religion that is not extended to those of smaller religions or those who have no religion.

We already have freedom of speech, belief, conscience, thought, expression etc. What extra freedom does "freedom of religion" bring? Mostly the right to wear funny hats. Which I really don't see as something that needs to be in the Constitution.

Where would you start. And where are you not protected by the Charter

Constitution Acts, 1867 to 1982

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.
Fundamental Freedoms

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.
 
taxslave
+1
#15
Freedom from religion is much more important than freedom of religion. Theocrats taking control of the government gives one problems like the muddle east has.
 
gopher
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Freedom from religion is much more important than freedom of religion. Theocrats taking control of the government gives one problems like the muddle east has.



Good thing the right wing television evangelists didn't get their way in making ours into a theocratic government.
 
Cliffy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Good thing the right wing television evangelists didn't get their way in making ours into a theocratic government.

What is the difference between a theocracy and an oligarchy or corporatocracy, beside not paying taxes?
 
talloola
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

That may be true of you, but, much in the same way many Christians don't represent me, many atheists I've met aren't like you. Many need validation of their belief (or lack of belief, however you want to say it) through others. They need the Dawkins' of the world to tell them they are right, they need to mock people who think differently than them, they need to argue their world view at every turn.

.

yeah, just like many in each religion need to convince the other that theirs is the right one, some atheists
need that too, but the atheists are really just 'not' a part of the others, they should realize that,
and leave the bickering and criticizm to them, as the atheists really don't have a dog in the fight,
so let those who do, argue with each other, as an atheist one doesn't need to be a part of the religious
community, they should feel free within themselves, and go their own way, and the criticizm that comes
their way is just chatter, Easy for me to say I guess.
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

What is the difference between a theocracy and an oligarchy or corporatocracy, beside not paying taxes?

Oligarchs and corporatocrats don't care what you think as long as you don't disagree with them out loud, and behave yourself. Theocrats require you to think like they do and they'll kill you if you don't.
 
petros
+1
#20
Atheist Commies top the death heap with 100 Million +
 
Cliffy
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

Oligarchs and corporatocrats don't care what you think as long as you don't disagree with them out loud, and behave yourself.

Or they will lock you away with Bubba for a long time, like they did to the whistle blowers. I'd rather die, thank you.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Atheist Commies top the death heap with 100 Million +

Shall we get into the last 1700 years of the church? Or the almost 90 million in the Americas? Or who knows how many in Africa, Asia, Australia? Christianity is up to its eyeballs in blood and so are the Muzzies.
 
petros
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

Shall we get into the last 1700 years of the church? Or the almost 90 million in the Americas? Or who knows how many in Africa, Asia, Australia? Christianity is up to its eyeballs in blood and so are the Muzzies.

Can I have some of the kinnikinnik you're smoking? 90 million eh? Piss poor warriors apparently. Thank God you believe in the Creator. If the Atheists were around that long that would be 15.3 Trillion at the rate they are going.
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Atheist Commies top the death heap with 100 Million +

That old red herring again? They were only incidentally atheists, it's not what made them behave as they did. Communism has many of the same features as organized religion and plays to the same aspects of human nature, it merely lacks a supernatural being at its core. It has its prophets, its books of scripture, its dogmas, its inquisitors, its narrative that purports to be the true explanation of things, it's visions of a fulfilled future... Stalin didn't behave as he did because he was an atheist, he behaved that way because he was a thug.
 
captain morgan
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

They were only incidentally atheists

It was an accident?

Talk about red herrings

Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

it merely lacks a supernatural being at its core. It has its prophets, its books of scripture, its dogmas, its inquisitors, its narrative that purports to be the true explanation of things, it's visions of a fulfilled future... Stalin didn't behave as he did because he was an atheist, he behaved that way because he was a thug.

This makes the 100+ million even more frightening as it can't even be pinned on anything tangible.

Any loss of life (for such stupid reasons) is a waste.... Loss for something as dumb as pride and thuggery is something that words can't possibly describe
 
ShintoMale
#25
Stalin went to seminary school and he said he had no problem being a dictator because the Russians have been pacified for centuries under the old theocratic tsarist regime
 
Dexter Sinister
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

It was an accident?

Talk about red herrings

I said incidentally, not accidentally, different ideas entirely, means it was a minor feature of the system, not a defining one and not the main motivator.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I said incidentally, not accidentally, different ideas entirely, means it was a minor feature of the system, not a defining one and not the main motivator.

I've found that using multi-syllable words on this board only leads to trouble.
 
petros
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

\ Stalin didn't behave as he did because he was an atheist, he behaved that way because he was a thug.

Stalin? An Atheist thug. Is that the only Commie you know? Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Minh. incidental thugs too?
 
karrie
+3
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister View Post

I said incidentally, not accidentally, different ideas entirely, means it was a minor feature of the system, not a defining one and not the main motivator.

The same strikes me as true about 'religious wars'. The real motivator isn't religion, it's control of people and resources, with religion as a veil. Remove religion, and the wars are still waged.
 
Omicron
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

When did Atheism become a Religion? How do you protect nothing?

Atheism has always been a religion, or a belief/faith if you will, because it's no more possible to prove God does not exist than is it possible to prove He does.
 

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