Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say


Hoid
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

The provincial government already owns the resources in the ground.

In some cases.

In other cases the resource is owned by First Nations -
 
White_Unifier
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid View Post

In some cases.

In other cases the resource is owned by First Nations -

In those cases, the government of any first nation should be free to charge the royalty of its choice. Again, it's up to the business to take it or leave it.
 
petros
+1
#93
There already are FN oil companies and they aren't charging any more or any less.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+2
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

The provincial government already owns the resources in the ground. Private companies pay a royalty essentially as the price to buy those resources so that it can then extract them. I don't see the need to nationalize these businesses when the government already owns the resources and can sell them at whatever price (aka royalty) it wants. It's then just up to the businesses to buy or not according to the free market.

In fact, the last thing environmentalists would want would be for the government to nationalize extraction businesses since that would create an incentive for the government to expand extraction. Just compare tobacco to casinos. Tobacco can't advertise. casinos and lotteries can. The difference? The government doesn't own tobacco but it does lotteries and casinos. How would nationalizing resource companies be any different. Do environmentalists really want to give the government a greater incentive to expand such operations? Environmentalists might want to be careful what they wish for.

You would be a train-wreck of a Minister of Finance
 
petros
+1
#95
I wouldn't trust him with my phone bill.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

The real problem is that instead of hiring people that knew the business it was run by party hacks with politics before profits.
Governments should not run any business because they simply can't.At most they should provide broad guidelines as to what is exspected of the businesses and extract sufficient royalities off resources and exports to run the country.



Norway also doesn't have a bunch of freeloading morons demanding that there be no way to export the product. Did you knwo Norway has offshore oil rigs While our Federal government has banned them in BC Waters since I was your age. SO if Norway is the model you want when can we start drilling in the Gulf?



Yours or ours?

Does it matter? Yours, ours, the Romans'. . .
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+2
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

In those cases, the government of any first nation should be free to charge the royalty of its choice. Again, it's up to the business to take it or leave it.

Sure, they could charge double, and they would make zero dollars as the oil co.s wouldn't spend any money at that location as opposed to next door where the royalty was 1/2

... Which begs the question, exactly what part of this don't you get?
 
White_Unifier
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Sure, they could charge double, and they would make zero dollars as the oil co.s wouldn't spend any money at that location as opposed to next door where the royalty was 1/2

... Which begs the question, exactly what part of this don't you get?

Wait a minute. Did you actually believe that I believed that raising the royalties would somehow increase extraction? Silly twit.

Of course I know that raising royalties could push businesses away, but the government might in fact want to reduce the rate of extraction for environmental or other reasons beyond just making money. Not everything is just about money. silly twit.
 
petros
+1
#99
Where did you get "increase extraction" from?
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+3
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Wait a minute. Did you actually believe that I believed that raising the royalties would somehow increase extraction? Silly twit.

No.

... Silly twit

Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Of course I know that raising royalties could push businesses away, but the government might in fact want to reduce the rate of extraction for environmental or other reasons beyond just making money. Not everything is just about money. silly twit.

It WILL push business away.

Under the suggestion of increased royalties by both Stelmach and later, Notley, the CapEx budgets by a number of oil co.s directed towards Alberta based projects were almost immediately transferred to Sask, BC and the USA.

Capital moves really fast and once spent, there's no undoing those expenditures.

This isn't rocket science bud
 
White_Unifier
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

No.

... Silly twit



It WILL push business away.

Under the suggestion of increased royalties by both Stelmach and later, Notley, the CapEx budgets by a number of oil co.s directed towards Alberta based projects were almost immediately transferred to Sask, BC and the USA.

Capital moves really fast and once spent, there's no undoing those expenditures.

This isn't rocket science bud

Sometimes that might be the whole point. Raising royalties even by a little can greatly reduce the rate of extraction.
 
petros
+3
#102
Thanks Notley. More drilling in SK than in AB for the first time in nearly 70 years.
 
OpposingDigit
#103
Petro Canada must of been making money because just look at all the assets they purchased before being sold off. Most people would say that Petro Canada was reinvesting its profit rather than dishing it out to shareholders as dividends.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+1
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Sometimes that might be the whole point. Raising royalties even by a little can greatly reduce the rate of extraction.

If that's your goal, then just ban resource extraction or stop issuing any more permits.

No point in over complicating something that is really that straight forward.

... On that note, what's the master plan for all of your transportation and logistical needs in terms of running society?
 
White_Unifier
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

If that's your goal, then just ban resource extraction or stop issuing any more permits.

No point in over complicating something that is really that straight forward.

... On that note, what's the master plan for all of your transportation and logistical needs in terms of running society?

We need fuel so we can't just ban it or just stop it. Raising royalties strikes a healthier balance to just discourage it.
 
petros
#106
Why discourage it? To artificially raise the price?
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
#107
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

We need fuel so we can't just ban it or just stop it. Raising royalties strikes a healthier balance to just discourage it.

So, to be clear.

You need fuel and as such can't just ban it or stop using it, but the goal is to discourage the use of the fuel in question.

... So, I'll ask the same question a little differently this time.

What's the master plan in terms of a substitute for the verboten fuel vis-a-vis dealing with the transportation and logistical requirements in running society?
 
White_Unifier
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

So, to be clear.

You need fuel and as such can't just ban it or stop using it, but the goal is to discourage the use of the fuel in question.

... So, I'll ask the same question a little differently this time.

What's the master plan in terms of a substitute for the verboten fuel vis-a-vis dealing with the transportation and logistical requirements in running society?

Raising royalties would encourage businesses to function more efficiently over time. It would encourage more innovation.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+1
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Raising royalties would encourage businesses to function more efficiently over time. It would encourage more innovation.

Great.

Thyat's like teaching a guy to ski by taking him to the top of the steepest double black diamond run and pushing him down the slope with the idea that he'll adapt and learn extra super quick.

... At least your plan will provide lots of work for the morticians and cemeteries in the local areas

By the way, you still haven't answered my Q regarding substitutes
 
petros
#110
I'm still waiting to hear if he figured out OEM.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
+1
#111
I dunno man, but in the event that the answer is provided, it will be interesting
 
JamesBondo
+1
#112
we dont have a pipeline that feeds the eastern provinces. so you dumb****s that want to nationalize the oil had better get busy laying pipe because I'm ****ing going postal if you think I'll sit in the dark.
 
Curious Cdn
No Party Affiliation
#113
Just try nationalizing the oil companies and the CIA will be actively trying to change the Canadian government, the next day. Watch them support an Alberta-based armed insurgency ... death squads and all ... as per their time-proven model ... The "Lacombedanistas"

Ralph Klein VIVA!
 
petros
+1
#114
Wow. Just wow.
 
Curious Cdn
No Party Affiliation
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Wow. Just wow.

You gonna join? You'll get to use your guns for what they're designed to do ... kill other people!
 
White_Unifier
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Great.

Thyat's like teaching a guy to ski by taking him to the top of the steepest double black diamond run and pushing him down the slope with the idea that he'll adapt and learn extra super quick.

... At least your plan will provide lots of work for the morticians and cemeteries in the local areas

By the way, you still haven't answered my Q regarding substitutes

Substitutes? How about promoting higher-density cities with more walking and cycling paths? How about promoting more telecommuting and home offices? For starters.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I'm still waiting to hear if he figured out OEM.

I didn't get your point about them.
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
#117
No answer to the Qs then i guess
 
White_Unifier
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

No answer to the Qs then i guess

Aren't calories to power feet and bicycles and hydro to power home computers alternative sources of fuel?
 
captain morgan
No Party Affiliation
#119
Enjoy your 10 km cycle to work in -20... How refreshing.

Not every province has opportunity for hydro, let alone the provincial infrastructure to accommodate such.

You are living in a fantasy Machjo and the plan to cut-off the fuel supplies and hope that all is well is a piss-poor plan.
 
White_Unifier
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Enjoy your 10 km cycle to work in -20... How refreshing.

Not every province has opportunity for hydro, let alone the provincial infrastructure to accommodate such.

You are living in a fantasy Machjo and the plan to cut-off the fuel supplies and hope that all is well is a piss-poor plan.

Who says you couldn't cycle in the summer and drive in the winter? With higher urban density, public transit might be more efficient too. Again, I'm not proposing shutting the fuel industry down altogether, just raise royalties somewhat to shrink it.
 

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