Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say


Musicman
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni Fucci

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy

It should also be noted that prior to l947, when oil was first discovered in King Ralphs Kingdom, Alberta was a have not Province and other parts of Canada shared their wealth with Albertans.

Oh that is noted quite often around here Grumpy...but the Albertans' rejoinder will run along the lines that they've payed that back a hundred times over...big babies...

Grumpy, you are right, but gee, 1947 was what, 58 years ago? Since then, exactly how much has Alberta put back into the country, as Vanni noted. Of course Alberta has paid that back, complete with interest. In the meantime, there are provinces that have collected from Canada for many years before and since 1947. At what point do these provinces start contributing to the country?

It has to be noted that Alberta currently contributes almost $1billion per year MORE THAN THE ROYALTIES THE ALBERTA GOVERNMENT EARNS FROM THE OIL INDUSTRY. It also has to be noted that ALBERTANS CONTRIBUTE MORE PER PERSON THAN ANY OTHER CANADIAN TO CANADA. Albertans contribute almost $3,000 per many, woman, and child in transfer payments, while Ontarians, the next largest contributors in transfer payments, contribute less than $1900 per person.

These are not opinons, they are facts. Thus, any claims that Alberta and Albertans do not "share with the rest of Canada" are totally false, and anyone who disagrees with the figures put forth here are welcome to rebut them. But please rebut them with apples vs apples comparisons. For instance, it is true that the province of Ontario contributes more TOTAL in transfer payments, but far less PER CAPITA in transfer payments.

As much as the ROC says that Albertans whine, the same is more than true about the ROC whining about Alberta. You don't like it, make your provinces do what Alberta did in the early nineties, cut spending, get out of debt, lower taxes, and then there can be a rational discussion.
 
Hank C Cheyenne
#32
Great Point MusicMan.
 
dumpthemonarchy
Free Thinker
#33
Ralph Klein says, "you can't have our oil." When the price of oil goes through the roof, is it business as usual? That is why many are glad Ralph is on his way out, tired old Ralph.
 
spidercide
#34
Wrote:
Seems to be a common theme from certain people in Alberta. They think they are better than the rest of us.
I think they are scared sh*tless that oil will be nationalized.

No, we don't think we are better. We just all remember the last time this was attempted and how the rest of Canada basically said FU when it all went to s**t.

I don't think that we are scared at all that you guys will try to nationalize it AGAIN, but you are right the landscape will be different. We will be leaving.
Fix your own problems the way Canada made Alberta do it. Until then keep your greedy hands out of my pockets!
 
spidercide
#35
Quote:
You don't like it, make your provinces do what Alberta did in the early nineties, cut spending, get out of debt, lower taxes, and then there can be a rational discussion.


You said it brother, you said it.
It is just like the health care debates. Yeah Alberta wants to kill health care and leave people dying in the streets. In reality, we are the only province that has secondary bills enshrining the health care act of Canada. And unlike Quebec we don't have private hospitals(yet)
 
Hank C Cheyenne
#36
You know, the NEP might of actually been a godsend. Yea it destroyed investment in Alberta so Trudeau could feed the industrial base in eastern Canada, however we have recovered. It has made Albertans more aware of the Feds, thus crushing any hopes they can put one over us again.

Anyone saying Albertans are greedy neo cons is just not well informed. Its a fact the avg Albertan contributes the most per capita back to Canada. Without equalization payments from Alberta as well as Ontario tell me where Canada would be.

Also spider you bring up a good point that Quebec is more Private when it comes to health care. Yet if we were discussing Quebec the fact would be ignored because Quebec is a left leaning province. If Quebec wants to seperate no one critisizes them, but if Albertans talk about previous injustices we are all dumped on!

I read a few days ago that Quebecers wanted more of a slice of Albertas surplus and supported nationalization of oil firms. Quite interensting since that would be through equilization payments which is a NATIONAL program. So they should have a say in how Canadian money is redistributed but want no part of Canada.... hmmmm.
 
spidercide
#37
As my tagline says....give us a reason.
I love Canada, but this is no longer the Canada I grew up in, was raised in and was taught about. I am old enough that they actually did teach me history in school.

I would not consider it seperation anymore, I would consider it reclaiming Canada. A Canada where victims have protection not criminals, where the governemtn was accountable to it's citizens and where reality trumps feelings.

Where I, through my representatives make the decisions about my life, not some judge that has no accountabiltiy or directive from me.

All the ROC of Canada always harps about the Constitution and how Ralph and the 'rednecks' would rip it up. Well guess what, that same Constitution says stay the F**k away from our resources. It's OK for the ROC to pick and choose.

I for one refuse to see the suicides and broken populace from the 80's.

Unlike Quebec, we won't threaten, we will DICTATE how we are leaving.
 
Jo Canadian
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Hank C Cheyenne

Also spider you bring up a good point that Quebec is more Private when it comes to health care. Yet if we were discussing Quebec the fact would be ignored because Quebec is a left leaning province. If Quebec wants to seperate no one critisizes them, but if Albertans talk about previous injustices we are all dumped on!

I read a few days ago that Quebecers wanted more of a slice of Albertas surplus and supported nationalization of oil firms. Quite interensting since that would be through equilization payments which is a NATIONAL program. So they should have a say in how Canadian money is redistributed but want no part of Canada.... hmmmm.

Actually there was a discussion about the recent court decision on healthcare in Quebec that may change the face of things here: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forum...ght=healthcare jump right on in man.
 
spidercide
#39
I gotta go,

but actually what I see from that forum is not that Quebec is privatizing and getting bashed for it. People are not all over them for it. In Quebecs case it is the Feds that screwed the pooch. That is the common comment from most posters. Exactly as Hank and myself said. When it is Quebec privatizing it is because the feds screwed up, when Alberta does it we are raping the Canadian value system and trying to make the sick destitute.

Maybe I am not seeing youtr point here Jo.

Also, don't forget Quebec has had private hospitals and doctors for decades, only now though it is a court decision.
 
dumpthemonarchy
Free Thinker
#40
Albertans cite the const. which grants prov. ownership of resources. Except oil is the nectar of our modern life, it is not potash, lumber, or fish, but our food, drugs, and transportation lifeline.

Alberta is a model for governmental efficiency, which so many in Canada see as a big teat to constantly suck on. However, Alberta is going to have to get creative with its fabulous wealth, or the piece of paper called the const. is going to be edited.
 
Numure
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Hank C Cheyenne

You know, the NEP might of actually been a godsend. Yea it destroyed investment in Alberta so Trudeau could feed the industrial base in eastern Canada, however we have recovered. It has made Albertans more aware of the Feds, thus crushing any hopes they can put one over us again.

Anyone saying Albertans are greedy neo cons is just not well informed. Its a fact the avg Albertan contributes the most per capita back to Canada. Without equalization payments from Alberta as well as Ontario tell me where Canada would be.

Also spider you bring up a good point that Quebec is more Private when it comes to health care. Yet if we were discussing Quebec the fact would be ignored because Quebec is a left leaning province. If Quebec wants to seperate no one critisizes them, but if Albertans talk about previous injustices we are all dumped on!

I read a few days ago that Quebecers wanted more of a slice of Albertas surplus and supported nationalization of oil firms. Quite interensting since that would be through equilization payments which is a NATIONAL program. So they should have a say in how Canadian money is redistributed but want no part of Canada.... hmmmm.

Liberals said that, they arnt seperatist...
 
dumpthemonarchy
Free Thinker
#42
There can't really be an intelligent discussion about Alberta's "oil" until the idea of Peak Oil permeates the land. When we become aware the era of cheap oil is over, that the really good stuff is gone, and that alternatives will have to found, then the constitutional issue will become clearer.
 
Reverend Blair
#43
I saw somebody mention peak oil during Question Period the other day. I'm not sure who it was...an BQ member I think. For the first time I've ever seen, it wasn't member of the NDP though.
 
spilledthebeer
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by ottawabill View Post

Ohh I can see it now as public gas servants go on strike and none of us will get gas.

Honestely though this poll is a knee jerk reaction to the price of oil. Even if the gas companies were nationalized to would have no effect on the world price. We would still pay 2.30 a litre and maybe more with the non productive nature of Gov. companies...Been on an Air Canada flight lately..you really want that service at the pumps???

Oh no! This is NOT a knee jerk reaction to gas prices- this is a LIE-beral sneak attack on all of Canada by LIE-berals who never saw a single profitable or useful thing that they did not feel entitled to own!

Anybody who thinks oil companies should be nationalized should consider what Pierre Trudope did with Petro Canada and give some thought to the massive bills that were generated even as civil service Hogs got rich!

Consider:

Recently a Lie-beral that Harper and Conservatives sold off Petro Canada-as if the crown corporation was actually USEFUL in some fashion to Cdns and this is a truly spectacular re-writing of history! Petro Canada was created in 1975 by Lie-beral prime minister (and closet communist) Pierre Trudeau. Petro Canada was a TYPICAL Lie-beral creation-a crown corporation sucking up massive amounts of tax money and consistently failing to show a profit in spite of preferential treatment by govt. The special govt aid included FREE access to assorted oil fields on crown land around the country-access which any private oil company would have to bid on and PAY for-and yet private companies out performed the crown corporation civil service Hogs at every turn in spite of govt aid to Petro Canada RIPOFF!

Petro Canada also bought out the small privately owned experimental tar sands project in west Alberta and expanded it massively. As the price of oil soared, other companies joined Petro Canada in exploiting the tar sands. So when our current prime minister the Boy with nice hair-for Brains speaks of shutting down the tar sands he is telling us he wants to DESTROY the energy policy CREATED BY his father the odious Pierre Trudope-our vicious PET!

By 1990, with Petro Canada STILL sucking up masses of tax dollars to keep afloat-and no real hope of ever making the govt employed Petro Hogs actually PAY their way; and with many private companies producing good profits in Alberta oil fields and making Petro Canada look STUPID; and with the Conservative govt of Brian Mulroney facing a recession, it was decided to cut the MANY losses of govt and sell off Petro Canada-it was NOTHING to do with Harper!! Lie-berals miss no opportunity to lie about Harper and like good socialists, they are quite willing to re-write history-just look at the crap they spout about Harper! Socialists believe their `good will` makes them infallible and any socialist plan that goes wrong must therefore have been sabotaged by their enemies and so Socialists believe they are ENTITLED to re-write history as they please!

Some Lie-berals may jump on this information and ask what is the difference between selling Petro Canada and selling Ontari-owe Hydro? The difference is this: There were and are many companies producing oil and oil prices do fluctuate up and down from time to time-competition between oil companies is not high...but there IS Some. Compare that to your electric bill-and I ASK-when was the last time the price of electricity EVER FELL? In your LIFETIME????

Further, oil is NOT something we need every day. We can walk or bicycle to work-in fact Lie-berals would like to ORDER us to do this! Loonie leftists and Lie-berals are behind the `war on cars` in Toronto. Or we can take a bus or subway. We can control oil consumption costs by car pooling or trading in the SUV on a smaller more fuel efficient car etc. We HAVE some choices about gas consumption-not many, but SOME!

With electricity we HAVE NO CHOICE-it is produced ONLY by one entity-GOVERNMENT! And we need electricity every day. We need it to run subways. Need it for street lights and stop lights. Need it for the heart monitor Granny is hooked up to. Need it for our furnace-the main fuel may be natural gas or even oil but the thermostat won’t run without electricity! Need it for our computers and machines at work.

Oil is something we can often do without if we are careful. Electricity is something we MUST have EVERY DAY!

All democratic govts long ago adopted the notion that a monopoly is a BAD THING and ought to be regulated heavily. Petro Canada was NOT a monopoly-just a very costly business failure and good riddance . Ontari-owe Hydro is a powerful monopoly that WE ALL need and Ontari-owe Lie-berals are selling it off for short term gain and long term pain-a quick one time infusion of cash in exchange for long term LOST PROFITS!

AND Lie-berals have ended the ability of provincial auditors to even look at the books of the electrical MONOPOLY in future and we ought to be asking what they are planning to hide in those now closed off books! Ontari-owe premier McWynnty-the Great Whore who sold herself, her party and our future to the Hogs has now sold 15 percent of Ontari-owe Hydro and has used that small sale as an excuse to completely shut the Hydro books IN SPITE of Hydro STILL being a publicly owned entity! Petro Canada was an easily replaced money pit. Ontari-owe Hydro is an essential service being stolen from Cdns!

There was NO CHANGE in the price or supply of oil after Petro Canada was sold but there WILL BE big changes in the cost of electricity in future in Ontari-owe! Lie-berals are scamming the public with this one and sneering as if Conservatives were the problem!

Lie-berals blame Conservatives for ruining the economy during the Harper years....yet after the 2008 recession (engineered by U.S. bankers) Lie-berals screamed at Harper for not spending enough borrowed money to save the economy! And now that Trudope-Our foolish Boy with hair for brains-is in charge and the economy is PLUMMETING FURTHER, Lie-berals are blaming Harper for spending TO MUCH! Such absurd hypocrisy from Lie-berals!

And how ironic is it that Justin, the Boy with nice hair for Brains campaigned in the recent election promising to CLOSE DOWN the Alberta tar sands projects-the COSTLY creation of Pierre Trudeau and his Lie-berals! Lie-berals are so muddled they cannot even keep their own policy straight much less figure out what others are doing or why!

Although the truth is that Our Boy is so selfish and pig headed that he will hurt anybody who disagrees with him-if he can. So oil from Lie-beral loathing Alberta stays in the ground while natural gas from more liberal friendly provinces is put in a new pipeline and shipped off to the west coast and environmentalists be damned-there are LIE-beral votes at stake!

And why has the Cdn dollar sunk so far and so fast recently? Money managers and economists are a LOT smarter than poor Justin and they can see (even if he cannot) that his economic `plan` is nothing more than a retread of the crap thrown at us by NDP Bob Rae!

The international money managers that Our hair-brained Boy wants to borrow from have seen this loonie leftist Lie-beral trick before-does anybody other than disgusted bankers remember Bob Rae and his Rae days? BoB the BOOB was going to spend us rich with borrowed money! Or look at the recent example of stupid debt and how best to piss off your creditors perpetrated in Greece! Money managers don’t like what they see of Our Boy! The Boy with hair for brains has been on the job for only a few months and the economic world has cast its vote: a 74 cent Cdn dollar is our reward for “letting the deficit take care of itself”!

Civil service Working Family Hogs LOVE the Boy because he is going to BUY their support and their love....but the real world of sensible economists think the Boy has hair for brains and Cdns ought to be economically punished for being stupid enough to elect the dolt!

But Lie-berals will tell you its all Harpers fault! Even when its LIE-beral promises being broken its STILL somehow all Harpers fault! LIE-berals want the Harper regime buried and forgotten so nobody will look back and compare foolish LIE-berals to previous more responsible govts! Its why Our Boy admires the Chinese-because THE PARTY writes the history! And Our Boy wonders why some people call his party LIE-berals?
 
Danbones
Free Thinker
+1
#45
"Peak Oil" riiiiiiiiiight....

...so how many biological entities actual live or have ever lived down at the depths where oil actually is?
 
MHz
#46
Zero.
The national oil company would still be paying interest to the World Bank and they own 51% of all the big corporations and won't be changing anytime soon.
 
petros
+1
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

"Peak Oil" riiiiiiiiiight....

...so how many biological entities actual live or have ever lived down at the depths where oil actually is?

Lots! There is plenty of life deep in the rock.
 
MHz
#48
The exception is the rocks the collective hides under, that ground is as barren as it gets.
 
petros
#49
I'm afraid not MegaPoopsie.

Animals found living in rock deep, deep underground - Technology & Science - CBC News
 
DaSleeper
+1
#50
or a 12year old necro!
 
Hoid
#51
"peak oil" is or was a stock market scam.
 
JamesBondo
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by mrmom2 View Post

Montreal — Almost half of Canadians wanted to see their petroleum resources and their gas companies nationalized as fuel prices hit record levels, a new poll suggests.

All stop!

That is so outrageously unbelievable.
 
MHz
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I'm afraid not MegaPoopsie.

Animals found living in rock deep, deep underground - Technology & Science - CBC News

All would be smarter than you also. I can live comfortably knowing that.
How does that make you feel?
 
Walter
+2
#54
Gotta love the free market, we are paying the same for gas as Calgary did 12 years ago.
 
B00Mer
No Party Affiliation
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

Gotta love the free market, we are paying the same for gas as Calgary did 12 years ago.

Yeah and in Iraq they are paying 5 cents a gallon..

Iraq Gas Costs 5¢ Gallon Thanks To US Taxpayers
 
Danbones
Free Thinker
#56
Sh!t! It's their gas
jeezus

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Lots! There is plenty of life deep in the rock.

making oil?
bull sh1t

The whole oil is from "decayed biological life" is BS from day one, and only believed by dummies.

'FOSSIL FUEL' THEORY TAKES HIT WITH NASA FINDING
New study shows methane on Saturn's moon Titan not biological
‘Fossil fuel’ theory takes hit with NASA finding

DISCOVERY BACKS THEORY OIL NOT 'FOSSIL FUEL'
New evidence supports premise that Earth produces endless supply
Discovery backs theory oil not ‘fossil fuel’

So...there is life down at 40,000 feet below the earths surface eh?
http://www.businessinsider.com/world...il-well-2017-3
Last edited by Danbones; Oct 19th, 2017 at 08:07 AM..
 
spilledthebeer
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

Sh!t! It's their gas
jeezus


making oil?
bull sh1t

The whole oil is from "decayed biological life" is BS from day one, and only believed by dummies.

'FOSSIL FUEL' THEORY TAKES HIT WITH NASA FINDING
New study shows methane on Saturn's moon Titan not biological
‘Fossil fuel’ theory takes hit with NASA finding

DISCOVERY BACKS THEORY OIL NOT 'FOSSIL FUEL'
New evidence supports premise that Earth produces endless supply
Discovery backs theory oil not ‘fossil fuel’

So...there is life down at 40,000 feet below the earths surface eh?
World's deepest oil well - Business Insider

Dont worry- NASA will NEVER find that big black monolith hidden on the far side of the moon! Your 2001 style head space odyssey can continue un-interrupted!

And why dotn you read about the MESS made by LIE-berals as they screwed with electricity prices:

Here is another article illustrating LIE-beral greed and stupidity. With some comments of my own in brackets):

The shocking incompetence of Liberal energy policy

First posted: Saturday, July 01, 2017 07:17 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, July 01, 2017 07:59 PM EDT

As Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne might say, given her propensity for wasting our money, “What’s another billion?”

This time, a billion dollars is the amount the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers (OSPE) says the Wynne government wasted last year alone dumping clean energy down the drain.

OSPE past president Paul Acchione explained the culprit is “curtailment ... an industry term that means the power was not needed in Ontario, and could not be exported, so it was dumped.

“It’s when we tell our dams to let the water spill over top, our nuclear generators to release their steam, and our wind turbines not to turn, even when it’s windy,” Acchione said.

“These numbers show that Ontario’s cleanest source of power is literally going down the drain because we’re producing too much ... it’s an unnecessary waste of beautiful, clean energy, and it’s driving up the cost of electricity.”

(Much of this mess is driven by the need to make room on the power grid for the mouldy green energy so beloved of LIE-berals! LIE-berals have agreed to buy any and all green energy produced by friends of the LIE-beral Party- at rates hundreds of percent above the cost of other forms of generation- and LIE-berals do not care that we have NO WAY to shut off the production of mouldy green even when we have way more power than we need! LIE-beral friends ARE ENTITLED and to shut off their flow of gravy for any reason would be LIE-beral/WRONG!)

This is distinct from the money Ontario loses when it sells electricity to Quebec and the U.S. at a loss because we have a huge energy surplus.

“Taken together,” Acchione said, “total exports represent nearly enough electricity to power every home in Ontario for an entire year.”

The situation is so bad — according to a 2015 report by Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk, Ontario pays twice the U.S. average for wind power and 3.5 times for solar power — that the basic theory of successful investing, buy low, sell high, has been turned on its head in Ontario.

Here, our Liberal government buys high and sells low, which we all pay for through our hydro bills.

OSPE says the root problem is the politicization of energy policy.

(The most outrageous part of LIE-beral policy is that our green energy is actually producing MORE air pollution- NOT LESS! First we have the huge plume of green house gas to produce all the concrete and steel for wind towers and support towers to connect to the main power grid; plus the array of toxic chemicals needed to make the carbon fibre wind blades; then add in the fuel for natural gas fired generators that MUST be kept FULLY fired up 24/7 and ready to take over at a moments notice because the costly green energy is so unreliable! LIE-berals have turned our electrical generation system into a VAST slush fund for LIE-beral pals- WITHOUT actually doing anything to clean the air!)

“It is imperative that we depoliticize what should be technical judgments regarding energy mix, generation, distribution, pricing and future investments in Ontario,” President Jonathan Hack said.

But even when the Liberal government gets good advice from its experts, it ignores it.

(Water powered generators are the cheapest form of generators but they are also the easiest to SHUT OFF- just a flip of the switch and water spills away- with the added bonus that water generators need the smallest work force to operate since the technology is so simple. But a nuclear power station- with highly skilled staff- takes three days to go safely from idle speed to full power and another three days to go back to idle again- no fast reaction there! And thanks to the greed and incompetence of Atomic Energy scientists, our govt has hired specialists from Britain and France to run the nuclear plants- and their corporate bosses EXPECT a return on their investment in our system! So for reasons of political expediency AND LIE-beral GREED, the cheapest and cleanest form of electrical generation-water power- is being DUMPED!)

Lysyk in 2015 — completing work started by her predecessor, Jim McCarter, in 2011 — reported that Ontario paid $9.2 billion extra for 20-year contracts with wind and solar power developers because it sweetened the deals, despite the fact its own experts said its existing procurement program was successfully doing the job.

Even worse, Ontario didn’t need wind and solar power to replace coal-fired electricity, which the Liberals actually did with nuclear power and natural gas.

The ultimate absurdity is that the Liberals continue to sign new wind and solar contracts, despite the province’s massive energy surplus, caused in part by the loss of manufacturing jobs due to skyrocketing electricity prices.

If you think the Liberals don’t know what they’re doing, other than kicking the crisis down the road by subsidizing electricity prices to the tune of $24 billion, which could eventually cost Ontarians up to $93 billion, according to Ontario Financial Accountability Officer Stephen LeClair, you’re right.

(Ontari-owe LIE-berals remain dedicated to their mouldy green energy slush fund. They have read the tea leaves and know they will not likely be in power after the June 2018 election- so they have quietly signed 4 year labour contracts with the civil service Hogs that are virtually the ONLY supporters of LIE-berals and they will hope we have short memories and can be persuaded to re-elect LIE-berals in the 2022 election!)

(If LIE-berals do retain power in the 2018 election then in 2019 we can look forward to an economic blood bath as LIE-berals loot and pillage to pay off their HUGE IOU`s to civil service Hogs! And if they return to power in 2022, then we can look forward THEN to the economic blood bath that LIE-berals want to drown us in as they seek to cling to power at any price!)

(Old news reports from several years back- the ones LIE-beral friendly news media now do not want to discuss-.told us that 97 percent of ALL civil service union Hog pensions were rapidly approaching bankrupt status. LIE-berals cannot shovel cash fast enough into the greedy pockets of Hogs with the result that the cost of LIE-beral promises grows rapidly at a pace way beyond inflation with each passing day- compounded and amortized! We could not pay when the promises were originally made and we cannot pay now that the mess has been added to with compound interest! But LIE-berals WILL continue to use our electrical generation system to milk cash from us any way they can! Without that gravy to placate Hogs and without the votes the gravy buys from special interest groups such as Muslims who hate us; LIE-berals could not be elected to collect dog crap in the parks!)
 
Murphy
Conservative
#58
Mhz, you're odd.
 
Gilgamesh
+1
#59
Nationalizing oil has always been a failure in democratic countries.

That isn't my opinion it is historical fact.
 
Hoid
+2
#60
Nationalizing oil and gas does not mean lower prices.

Gas in Norway is twice the price of gas in America.
 

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